" They brought it home" 67% of 251 soldier's babies degraded

[donsu]

http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml


Depleted uranium: Dirty bombs, dirty missiles, dirty bullets
A death sentence here and abroad


-snip-

Not only were soldiers exposed to DU on and off the battlefields, but they brought it home. DU in the semen of soldiers internally contaminated their wives, partners and girlfriends. Tragically, some women in their 20s and 30s who were sexual partners of exposed soldiers developed endometriosis and were forced to have hysterectomies because of health problems.

In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects. They were born with missing legs, arms, organs or eyes or had immune system and blood diseases. In some veterans’ families now, the only normal or healthy members of the family are the children born before the war.

The Department of Veterans Affairs has stated that they do not keep records of birth defects occurring in families of veterans.
-snip-
----------------------------------------------


military wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends, etc. are too stressed by all of this to fight for their rights. we have to do it for them.

the issue of cancers, deaths and degraded babies is LARGE and it would be a POWERFUL weapon against the bushmilhousegang.

why aren't we using it? digging up the facts and figures will be tedious but gee whiz

[I Have A Dream]

1. Recommended. This is so sad.

:cry:

[Doctor_J]

2. The war that keeps on giving

I really, really hate BushCo

[madrchsod]

10. clinton had a hand in this also-no fly zone over iraq

clinton also used du weapons in the balkan war. both sides of the aisle are responsible for du poisining

[Angry Girl]

3. This needs to be escalated! KnR

With stats like that, you would think someone would have a case. What do we need to get people to open their eyes about this nefarious administration. Why can't the extremist whackos see that this scumbag Bush is the Great Deceiver they were warned about in their religious texts? I don't get it.

[rodeodance]

4. my gawd--this is horrible (not strong enough word)

......In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects. They were born with missing legs, arms, organs or eyes or had immune system and blood diseases. In some veterans’ families now, the only normal or healthy members of the family are the children born before the war.

[sasha031]

7. what do you think happened to the generation of Iraq's

in the 1st gulf war...same thing,

[nicknameless]

58. Representatives Bonior and McDermott spoke about that.

They visited an Iraqi hospital BEFORE * began his military assault.
The doctors at the hospital told them that Iraqi mothers don't ask if their newborns are male or female anymore.
They ask if they're "normal".
MANY deformities due to the crap, depleted uranium presumably, used in the first Gulf war.

[MADem]

9. And that is just one state--it is a real problem, everywhere

But hey, vets are being prevented from even TESTIFYING at committee hearings to any meaningful extent, by the GOP. The rehab hospital at Brooks is being built with PRIVATE money.

They want us all to shut up, crawl in a corner, and die.

[The Doctor.]

19. And do they really wonder why recruitment is suffering?

They seem to think that the problem is that the soldiers are talking...

NO!! The problem is that these soldiers are put in shitty places, given crappy food and water, exposed to toxic substances, and given far less protection than we are easily capable of providing.
Then they come home sick, can't get treatment, don't get paid, can't hold down jobs and are messed up for life...

And the Pentagon just wants them to 'shut up'.

NO!!! TAKE BETTER CARE OF OUR SOLDIERS!!!!

"Support the Troops" My ass!

[rodeodance]

5. k and r.

[sasha031]

6. yes, I read about this awhile ago

from the soldiers perspective, the military has destroyed 100,000's of Iraq's lives and Americans.

I have come to believe this has been done by design....

[rodeodance]

8. I imagine this will be an 'agent orange' fight all over again.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. And it was the 'compassionate' concervative right-to-lifers who made

all that possible.

x(

[sasha031]

13. yes the US is going to see a boom in children being born

missing body parts,...the right loves the fetus but hates the child

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. And we will see a drastic slashing of gov't assistance to

families and communities with special needs children. Count on it.

[sasha031]

20. yes, life will be like a Dickens novel

and the freeps will say "HEY wut happind!

[ProfessorPlum]

12. The use of depleted uranium is a tragic mistake, but . . .

is there any indication in this article about how d.u. makes its way into soldiers semen? Though it is possible that mutations in germ cell lines could lead to birth defects, I think the link to endometriosis in partners in their 20s and 30s is a little thin. There are women who get endometriosis that young anyway, and I'm not aware of any link between endometriosis and exposure to radiation.

Other than that, of course this is a health issue that should be pursued - that just struck me as a particularly untenable claim.

[Sequoia]

16. Guess you're aware of it now!

[ProfessorPlum]

28. I'm aware of an unproven claim of it, yes.

the use of d.u. is terrible and destructive, but it may not in fact cause every one of the problems mentioned.

[Sequoia]

51. I wouldn't doubt it, less things have caused damage.

[donsu]

17. after the first G. war women said the seman was so 'hot' that it burned

their vaginas, many had to be doctored.

I read the article several years ago

[sasha031]

21. yes I read that too

[ProfessorPlum]

23. Really? from radiation burns?

Radioactive dust in the air from depleted uranium, is likely to enter soldiers' bodies from their lungs and digestive tracts, possibly a little from skin exposure.

In similar common heavy metal poisonings, like lead and mercury, the metal can end up in bone tissues and in brain and spinal cord tissues, kidneys, and the blood. Most of it is excreted in urine and feces, with some minor elimination in sweat. I've not heard of semen as a route of elimination, but I suppose there could be small amounts in the semen.

I wonder if uranium acts more like lead or mercury (or arsenic) in the body.

[donsu]

24. it messes up the imune system

nt

[MrMonk]

33. What does that have to do with "burning"?

[MADem]

41. It sure as hell does--you either get everything, or your immune system

is hyper-friken-active and fights off stuff that isn't even there.

Totally exhausting.

[politicat]

50. Acidic, not hot.

DH and his ex-wife had that for a while after he got back from Iraq I. It was finally traced to an acid imbalance; she ran a bit more alkaline on the PH scale and he ran somewhat acidic. Since they had not slept together before he left and she was a virgin until shortly before they married, it took them a while to figure out that anything was wrong, and it is uncertain that it was because of anything he was exposed to while in the Army.

We still very occasionally have issues but they have decreased dramatically since he had his vasectomy.

[mike_c]

64. "since he had his vasectomy."

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread but this statement REALLY got my attention. A vasectomy only blocks the addition of spermatozoa to semen-- the bulk of the fluid is unchanged. The spermatozoa themselves are neither acidic nor alkaline-- they're just haploid cells. In fact, that's the reason for the normal alkalinity of semen-- to counteract the usual acidity of vaginal/uterine habitat (the normal vaginal pH is decidedly acidic at 3.8 to 4.5, blood and other body fluids are close to neutral pH 7, and semen pH is usually slightly alkaline at 7.1 to 8.0). The point is that a vasectomy would NOT alter semen pH, because the fluid pH is determined by prostate gland secretions, not by the seminal tubules that produce sperm (the only component blocked by a vasectomy). So if a vasectomy "cured" the condition, there is something very strange happening. It would also mean that the cause of the "burning semen" would be relatively easy to isolate from men who had vasectomies, although it would require minor surgery to access the vas deferens.

[politicat]

66. It could also be coincidental.

The few times he and I had the problem, we traced it more to a mechanical issue (i.e. getting too busy too quickly without enough additional liquid "help"); most of the time we did not have a problem at all. It could also be that *if* at one point in time, he had a chemical in his body that caused it, he had finally excreted it (we got involved 9 years after his war experiences.)

The ex wife also had enough gyno issues to send a Gyn's kid to law school, so it could have been coincidental, as well; she has had similar problems with her current partners (she's polyamorous) who did not go Iraq.

In our case, we can't say for certain that the DoD had anything to do with it.

[MrMonk]

22. If the wives truly are contaminated with uranium,

then the effects could be teratogenic rather than results of germ line mutation. Missing organs, IIRC from tox class, are typically due to developmental errors rather than mutation.

On edit: It seems likely that uranium could be a teratogen. Other heavy metals have been shown to have such effects.

Have the wives actually been tested for presence of uranium? If the route of exposure is through the husband's semen, it should be easy to detect even small amounts of contamination through a timely smear. A semen sample could also provide definitive results.

Finally, with regard to the post about "hot" semen, if its "hot" enough to burn the wife's vagina, it must really do a job on the man's organs, since he produces and stores the stuff. If true, the guy has probably been sterilized and is in agony every time he jacks off. I find that anecdote difficult to believe.

[donsu]

25. many of these men are already dead - check out the stats for G one

and more are dying off each yr.

[MrMonk]

29. Have there been documented reports of such burning in those men?

[ProfessorPlum]

27. Good point

for the seminal fluid to be damaging once it's outside the man, it must be burning the hell out of him on the inside.

Most (inorganic) mercury is eliminated from people's bodies in about a week, with some lingering in the brain and kidneys a bit longer. Lead poisoning, because of its distribution to the bone, has a half-life of 20 years of more. My worry would be that uranium can be taken up in bone tissue like lead.

There are drugs that can cause teratogenesis by affecting gene expression (even some metals, like antipsycholtic lithium drugs), but I think the most likely cause of uranium's harmful effects would be from mutagenesis via radiation.

[Solon]

47. Maybe it isn't the uranium that is causing the burning...

Maybe some type of chemical that they have been exposed that has accumulated in the testicles and are relatively inert within the body, but react in a somewhat violent way when exposed to air. Granted this is only conjecture, but I would think it is possible if extremely rare, I know of some chemicals that when exposed to free oxygen will combust, and others that do the same with water, so it might be possible.

[Pacifist Patriot]

53. I'm not a biologist, a doctor or any kind of scientist so take this

speculation for what it is worth. I may sound incredibly simple and naive here.

Is it possible the burning could be a result of a chemical reaction in the combination of the semen with the vaginal environment and cervical fluids? If that is the case than the "burning" sensation wouldn't be felt by the male.

[mimitabby]

62. thank you for saying that. it does sound a bit ridiculous. nt

[Igel]

49. It seems to trace back to a study

referenced in the internationally renowned science journal "The Nation", in a peer-unreviewed editorial entitled "Mal de guerre" by Flanders in March 1994, as far as I can tell. The study "mysteriously" became previously unavailable, and I can't find an earlier reference to it. This particular quote clogs Google, as everybody excitedly quotes the author's quoting of the unreferenced and unconfirmable source.

Even saying how large cohort of children was would have been an improvement. Such is the state of science education and rigor in the US when an author is forced to rely on an editorial in "The Nation" for her review of the scientific literature.

Later, larger studies found nothing statistically aberrant in the birth defect rate; I haven't checked them to see if they report clustering.

"It" in this case is the 251-subject study. I started the respect, and wandered off into Google-land while the thread carried on without me.

[leesa]

59. Uranium and semen? You're kidding, right? Sperm are rapidly dividing

highly vulnerable cells. Why do you think sperm is saved prior to chemo and radiation exposure....megamutation potential. Endometrial tissue is rapidly dividing tissue which would possible find exposure through intercourse, also vulnerable.

[ProfessorPlum]

61. What are you asking?

Please state it clearly.

[Sequoia]

14. “Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used for foreign policy.”

Henry Kissinger said after Vietnam when our soldiers came home ill from Agent Orange

Some clips:

A medical doctor in Northern California reported being trained by the Pentagon with other doctors, months before the 2003 war started, to diagnose and treat soldiers returning from the 2003 war for mental problems only.

Medical professionals in hospitals and facilities treating returning soldiers were threatened with $10,000 fines if they talked about the soldiers or their medical problems. They were also threatened with jail.

...who could have devised this omnicidal plan to use DU to destroy the genetic code and genetic future of large populations of Arabs and Moslems in the Middle East and Central Asia - just coincidentally the areas where most of the world’s oil deposits are located - he replied: “It has all the handprints of Henry Kissinger.”

________Good Lord! A few years ago I saw an article with a father who'd come back from the Gulf War and it showed his little son who was deformed and he couldn't get any help for the child or himself who was also suffering from the war. He was told, it's not the military's fault.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

18. Kicked right up Rumsfeld's ass..... and definitely recommended

for the top of the greatest thread page..... unfrigging believable.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. Is it possible that the partners were exposed directly to radioactive

dust that came home in the soldiers' equipment?

[MrMonk]

32. I doubt that a soldier would be bringing such equipment home from overseas

However, it would be interesting to do a follow-up study on discharged soldiers who lived with their wives during service and who's duties would have exposed them to DU on military bases.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. Well, they don't just throw away their boots and uniforms when they

come home - though maybe they should.

For that matter, I wonder if there has been a commenserate rise in cancer rates of airlines personnel who work the flights bringing the soldiers home.

[MrMonk]

39. or of personnel who did not engage the enemy or entered a battlefield

but worked with the soldiers who did.

[MADem]

43. My understanding is that there IS a link there

...but quite naturally, the gubmint don't wanna publicize it.

[corker]

30. kick!

I just hope the repukes see this..

[brainshrub]

31. Oh shit.

Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit.

[fed-up]

34. Statement of Michael Stacy-1997-to House Comm on Gov Reform Oversight

Long read, but worth it

http://www.ngwrc.org/files/NGWRC/documents/documents/GovRel/Shays/stacy.htm

Statement of Michael J. Stacy
June 26, 1997

Subcommittee on Human Resources and Intergovernmental Relations, House Committee on Governemnt Reform and Oversight

I address Representative of the 105th Congress of the United States of America with great pride and gratitude for the invitation to speak before you concerning the Gulf War Syndrome and exposure to Depleted Uranium (DU). Thank you for the interest you have shown in not only me, but all those veterans who are suffering from these devestating unknown facts, which have stricken a lot of those who served under that command....

May 8, 1991, after an eternity (it seemed like) I finally stepped off the bus and saw my wife and daughter. Her first response was "I love you" and mine was, "how about those 5 boys you promised me" . . . My health was soon going straight down hill, I was feeling bad, teeth rotting and my wife was having numerous infections . . . Bladder, yeast, urinary tract. Her stomach was hurting every day and I went from 185 to 150 and from a 12 minute 2 mile, to barely making standard. My wife went from 125 to 90 lbs. The end of July, 1991, we finally had a glimmer of good fortune . . . my wife was pregnant with our second child. She miscarried a month later. I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to . . . The whole post was falling apart . . . 3rd Armored and 1st Infantry hated 2nd Armored, because we had shot and killed some of their men. Everyone was eaten up with guild and about 30% of my company was sick. There was no leadership or counseling, we were all fighting with each other, drinking too much and getting sicker as time passed. My wife Shawna was sick and hurting so bad, she was totally homebound.

I was discharged out of the Army on December 31, 1991. My records, medical and personal, were lost. My accomplishments had included Excellence in Armor, a Letter of Achievement from LTC Frank J. Gehrki, an Army Commendation Medal with V for valor, an Army Service Ribbon, Liberation of Kuwait Medal (from Saudi Arabia), National Defense, Southwest Asia Service and a Valitorious Unit Citation . My highest rank was Specialist E-4, promotable and held Corporal stripes for a short time. This was where I had planned and hoped for a future. I had become a model soldier before and during the war. but after the war was a different matter. I was discharged...

...In the summer of '95, her weight was down under 90 lbs. At this point, she has 85% of the symptoms on the enclosed list. The VA has almost convinced me that my health problems are mental instead of physical. My medical records, which I have copies of, state, "I believe the patient has been coached and is trying to get increased evaluation." I'd pretty much given up on trying to get any medical care, because where do you do after they slam every door in your face? Even non-service connected vets are supposed to get care for Gulf War ailments, but what are we going to do? How do we get any tests done, if they don't acknowledge any Gulf War Syndrome? My frustration was and still is taht I've told them my ailments and where I hurt. I know what the doctor needs to check for, because I was there and I know what I handled and was exposed to and I'm sure there were a lot of unknown agents from the enemy that I also came in contact with, but he's got the education, he's the doctor and instead o saying this is wrong and this is what needs to be done . . . and that is to test for DU exposure and chemical and biological exposure, etc . . . but instead they do nothing but try and blame it on Post Traumatic Stress. They need to try and help these veterans and their families. If they can transpant a heart, do brain surgery and find cures for all sorts of ailments and diseases, then why don't they run enough tests until they find out what we have? But the VA will not do tests, will not try tohelp, they act like they don't even care....

[donsu]

36. are Plum and Monk a couple?

nt

[fed-up]

40. Maybe they are related to Agent Mike... n/t

[Tesha]

37. This story is almost certainly bullshit.

Its argument smacks of the arguments in support of homeopathy:
Even though DU isn't all that radioactive to begin with, when
it's diluted before being applied to our soldiers and then
diluted again within their bodies and then diluted again by
being expressed as seminal fluid and then diluted again by
being mixed with vaginal fluids, why *THEN* it becomes
powerful stuff, able to burn vaginas in a single squirt!

Sorry, but much as I'd like to see us stop using DU ammo,
this story just doesn't hold water.

The interesting efects from DU are essentially all related
to its behavior as a heavy metal.

Tesha

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. Uh, radioactive particles do not dilute. A speck of uranium dust

can cause cancer. I don't know what's up with the 'hot seminal fluid' bit, but the rest of it is entirely believable.

Please note that the "hot seminal fluid" schtik came from up-thread, not from the OP's article.

[Tesha]

55. Of course they dilute.

> Uh, radioactive particles do not dilute.

Of course they dilute.

Any given atom has a certain probability of decaying in a certain period of time.

(Important hint: For U238 ("depleted" uranium), the probability of decay is
*REALLY, REALLY LOW*; that's why only half of it decays in 4.5 *BILLION*
years.)

If you have just one atom, that means you'll wait, on average, a bunch of
billions of years for it to decay.The odds are high that that one atom won't
give *YOU* cancer although it might someday give someone cancer assuming
humanity as a whole lives that long.

If you have 4.5 billion atoms, then there's a 50% chance that *ONE* atom
will decay in one year. Maybe, just maybe, if that alpha particle (a high
energy helium nucleus) shoots in your direction, it just might give you
cancer. Of course, Alpha particles are stopped by insubstantial things like
paper. So you'll have to wait for the several Beta particles (high energy
electrons) that follow a short while later. They'll pass through a couple
of millimeters of aluminum, so watch out for them.

(http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/radon/chain.htm)

And if we put a billion billion atoms in one place, then you might actually
have a vague little bit of radioactivity; heck, it might even be slightly
hazardous. But so is the granite in the pebbles under your feet.

So, *YES*, radioactivity dilutes just like any other effect.

Tesha

[Maddy McCall]

68. You could substitute Thalidomide for DU in your statement...

and we all know what Thalidomide caused. Diluted by saliva, then in the intestinal tract, and then in the blood before reaching the placenta, and then in the baby's blood. But damned if it didn't cause babies to be born without arms and legs.

I'll read the article more closely--I just scanned it. But how many times have we received medications, approved by the FDA, that caused birth defects and other problems? How many times has our government used nonconventional weapons that harmed our own soldiers?

I certainly understand why many DUers place faith in this reportage. I'll re-read it now.

[Tesha]

69. Really, one has nothing to do with the other.

Really, one has nothing to do with the other.

Compared to any reasonable assumptions about DU uptake, the dose
of thalidomide was much, much higher.

Tesha

[Usrename]

38. Finally found the WMDs.

These monsters have to be stopped now!!

[donsu]

42. yes

nt

[autorank]

44. THIS is grounds for IMPEACHMENT. This alone...

...acting against the interests of the people who protect the Unites States Constitution.

I'm just appalled, and that takes a great deal, believe me.

This has to go everywhere, now, in a hurry.

IMPEACHMENT is too good an outcome.

The man is a monster, his cronies are monsters, this is a devastating crime.

If anyone doubts what Murtha said about signing up, they should read this.

This is the GREATEST BETRAYAL of our military...poisoning their children.

This, Katrina, Iraq in general, destruction of the Constitution in multiple ways.

Their destructiveness knows no end.

BUSH IS THE MESSENGER OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.

[slay]

46. Depleted Uranium.. rigged elections.. wonder what else the MSM isn't tell

ing us. Well, the corporate media - nothing mainstream about those assholes. And don't even get me started about the 9/11 cover-up. :(

[Synnical]

48. This is horrible! n/t

:kick:

[fooj]

52. So much for the PRO-LIFE people, eh?

Assholes.

[IndyOp]

54. We had a DU baby at my place of work & church...

Ben had extremely short arms and deformed hands. His father served in the Gulf War. I am sorry to say it, but I did not have the courage to talk to his mother about the issue - I don't know if she or her husband were at all aware that his service could have been the cause of Ben's birth defect. :(

[malmapus]

60. I'm sure they might have had an idea his time there was the cause

But if it was from DU they might not know...


I entered service just after Desert Storm, I remember for a while there would be reports about Desert Storm Syndrome and the rise of birth defects in babies born to vets of the conflict. Of course back then we were all being told it was most likely from chemical weapons that were found and destroyed (basically stacking them all together and blowing them up). Nothing about DU though, least from my memory...yet another lie to us all it seems.

[enough]

56. k&r with sorrow and anger

[MakeItSo]

57. I feel bad for the troops but what about the Iraqis, FGS?

The troops signed up for duty voluntarily and went to a foreign land that wasn't their home. The Iraqis had no choice in the matter and now their land is going to be polluted for half a million years. The Iraqis also include lots of women and young children.

The irony of using nuclear WMDs to hunt for non-existent WMDs in Iraq is painfully apparent.

Bush and his gang of incompetent criminals CAN'T POSSIBLY believe in a traditional God, because if they did they would know that when their day of reckoning finally comes, Old St. Peter is going to tell them exactly where to go.

[ronnie624]

63. It's amazing that so many remain in denial regarding this issue.

I wish I knew how to post links.

[kwolf68]

65. Pro Lifers rejoice

...

[Maddy McCall]

67. Oh, the irony. The war is now, convolutedly, connected to abortion.

The neocon war caused servicepeople from Mississippi to have malformed babies--now that the pro-lifers in Mississippi have made abortions so difficult to obtain, this poor state (or the fed. govt, or private insurance) will have to pay for a lifetime of care for these pitiful babies.

What's really weird is that head of the Crisis Pregnancy Center in our hometown is adamantly and loudly anti-choice. Her husband's been in Iraq. They are a young couple--in their early 30s. I wonder if she's rethought her stance, since I am sure she's heard lots of news about her husband's friends families having malformed babies. I won't even express the rest of my thoughts. But I bet it's caused some hesitation in her considerations about whether she and her husband want another baby.

I hear that the study in the article was performed in Mississippi. I wonder when our media will pick up on it...our state newspaper doesn't mind presenting controversial news items to its readers. I may just forward the article's link to the news writer I know on the Clarion Ledger staff.

[Neil Lisst]

70. This story needs a known advocate. Don Imus might be it.

Imus has become a big advocate of care for soldiers injured in the war, and for proper treatment of them.

This story gets legs when it gets TV time and someone with a national audience pushing it.