What is NED? And Why is it Necessary?

[Catchawave]

I wanted to start a new thread, because I'd like to know more about this organization without making it so personal in regards to our feelings about 2008 candidates.

Is this org as bad as School of the Americas? That's what it was sounding like on another thread :(

From Source Watch:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=NED

So far, I'm not impressed. Thoughts?

[wakeme2008]

1. what I tried and tried again to point out

on that other thread is NED of today is not the same NED of a couple years ago. Bush like he has done with Bolton at the UN and EPA and others, turn a once respected body into something else.

[htuttle]

3. When was the NED a 'respected body'?

I supposed it would depend on who you were talking to as far as their 'respect' goes, but the NED was designed from the outset to undermine democratic regimes that were deemed 'unfriendly'.

[Catchawave]

7. Exactly...actually...never heard

of the NED til today :shrug: I do have protest history with the SOA, so my *alarm* went off.

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. That's simplistic and false I believe

A good argument can be made that it was designed to undermine Communist governments in the Warsaw Pact toward the end of the Cold War, unless you are including them in your list of unfriendly democratic regimes. A Democratic majority Congress voted for it at it's inception. When Clinton took office and decided to increase the funding for NED, and cost cutting Republicans objected, Democrats like Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, John Kerry, and Tim Hartkin were the strongest advocates for NED.

Has NED ever done things which many of us here would agree worked to undermine democratic regimes that were deemed "unfriendly"? Yes, I think so. But so has the United States State Department. Does the Justice Department work to undermine constitutional rights? Under Janet Reno I don't think it did. Under Alberto Gonzales I think it does.

NED was deeply involved in Eastern Europe and on the whole I think that was very much a positive thing. NED has also been very involved in Central and South America, and on the whole I think that has been a negative thing. But NED did back Pinochet's opponents in Chile when he called for a referendum on his rule also, and the organized opposition was able to beat him which was a key turning point for restoring democracy in Chile.

Jimmy Carter recently used some NED money (source the Democratic Party aligned granting body within NED) to monitor the Liberian elections by the way.

[Catchawave]

14. Again, I ask, why haven't I ever heard of

NED ?

And how do all the Dem names you drag into this thread, never mentioned it to me?

In there fundraising that is....or are those Dems just as snakeoily as our current leadership.

I worked for Carter in the late 70's early 80's.........WHY haven't I heard OF this NED ?

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. That's like asking; Why haven't I heard of the Bilderberg group?

There is all kinds of information out there on all of this stuff, some pro and con, but Congress keeps giving funding to NED, and out of the entire Senate and House of Representatives, only one member of the House voted against enthusiastically commending the work of NED as recently as October of 2003.

[Adelante]

62. You must not have been listening, that's all I can conclude

John Edwards, when he was running in the 2004 primaries, promised to double funding for the NED to promote democracy around the world. :shrug: I thought you were an Edwards supporter, but I must have you mixed up with someone else.

[CarolNYC]

74. I think Catch just called Edwards "snakeoily"...

and not only "snakeoily" but as snakeoily as our current leadership (I'm assuming she means Bush and not the Dem leadership here)...so, I'd say, no, that doesn't sound like an Edwards supporter.

[Catchawave]

6. Thanks for responding Wake....

I have a feeling you guessed what thread I was referring too :)

I want so badly to support all our Dems, and the choices they make today can certainly affect 2008 credibility. So we should, SHOULD, focus on BUSH *today* ?

...and his horrid world domino effect....hope that made sense?

[Donna Zen]

35. Why are you ignoring posts?

n/t

[Donna Zen]

13. Reading your posts

I am impressed at how little you care to understand about NED.

Again. NED is an endowment....it is not an agency. If you would like to complain about the republican organization that writes grants and accesses the endowed monies of NED, fine.

Considering how much money we have to spend on bombs, I'm in favor of an endowment that can be used by grassroots organizations in other countries. If the republicans have abused and misused the system...well, what do expect? But to condemn the concept, to starve the current good work being done by NED, is to cut off your nose to spite your face.

[htuttle]

2. They are the pinstripe version of the School of the Americas

Along with the International Republican Institute, they've been responsible for funding anti-democratic coups all over the world, especially in Latin America. Most recently, they were responsible for funding (and arming) the narco-terrorists that deposed President Aristide in Haiti.

They're reprehensible.

[Catchawave]

8. So sad.....but obviously they're covering

their arses with some good deeds? That's what I don't understand....and with tax dollars? Holy crap, if true, I'm definitely vexed :(

[Donna Zen]

32. NED is an endowment

NED does nothing including good deeds. If you care to remain vexed or intellectually dishonest, it's up to you. Playing your little game will certainly aid the republicans.

[High Plains]

56. You're being disengenous.

Yes, NED may fund some "good deeds." It has also funded lots of nasty things. I remember, for instance, NED funding "democratic unions" in El Salvador to help prop up the military dictatorship against the revolutionary leftist unions who played a key role in the thwarted revolution there. I knew labor leaders who were murdered by NED's buddies.

But the main objection I have is that it is a US government-funded program of intervention in the internal affairs of other countries.

Would you mind if President Ahmadinejad of Iran pumped a lot of money into influencing the US political process. Or the Israelis? Or maybe it's okay if Chavez pumps a few million into the US Bolivarian Party?

Well, no, they aren't going to do that, are they? Why not? Because it's illegal under US law.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I say.

I guess if you think the US is all about "exporting democracy," you won't have any problems with NED. Some of don't think that's what the US is all about.

[Tom Rinaldo]

58. There is a huge debate lurking below the surface here

But we are missing the point to think NED is the focus of that debate. NED is a pot of money appropriated by Congress to be used for some theoretically nice sounding idealistic purposes, and that pot is accessed by four organizations which each independently decide how to spend that money. I like some of the people involved in granting money and I dislike some of the people involved in granting money.

Maybe the Endowment isn't such a good idea afterall, but Congress loves it. It has strong bipartisan support, and people who most everyone here think have been good liberals; people like Mario Cuomo and Paul Wellstone and Walter Mondale and Ted Kennedy and John Kerry and Bill Bradley and Andrew Young and so forth have either been personally involved or strongly supportive of this effort.

The bad things that seem to sometimes be supported by some of the grantees under the NED umbrella are the type of bad things that historically have been done by one or another branch, covert or overt, of the United States Government in the past. Same for the good things come to think of it. That is the nature of power sharing dynamics. We can't defeat the Right militarily and take over the United States Government for our own, and is seems they can't do that to us either, for now. So everything that comes out of the United States Government isn't going to be all sweetness and light. Ain't gonna happen no matter how much we want that, not for years to come under the best case scenario.

And the other big debates are 1) Should Americans attempt to help others in the world, (one poster here already said she wants to keep all our money at home to help our own poor). 2) What can America do that is helpful? 3) Does America have legitimate self interests that need to be attended to through active engagement with other governments, including efforts to influence their policies? These are big questions, and anyone who tries to answer them with a simple rhetorical sound bite either isn't paying attention or isn't being honest.

[Mass]

4. This part seems to say that this is not a partisan organization

I would imagine that what is done by each of these organizations is quite different and that the worse project probably come from IRI. This said, what they describe has been the foreign policy of all American governments in the last 40 years, Democrats or Republicans.

NED was created with a view to creating a broad base of political support for the organization. NED received funds from the U.S. government and distributes funds to four other organizations - one created by the Republican Party, another by the Democratic Party, one created by the business community and one by the "labor" movement (N.B.: the names of these organizations have changed over time):

* International Republican Institute (IRI)
* National Democratic Institute for International Affairs (NDI)
* Chamber of Commerce's Center for Private Enterprise (CIPE)
* AFL-CIO's American Center for International Labor Solidarity

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. Depends on how you define "partisan".

Except for the AFL/CIO involvement, it looks like it is pure corporatist. What is AFL/CIO doing supporting the corporatist agenda?

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. Simply not true, unless you consider the entire Democratic Party corporist

The National Democracy Institute for International Affairs (NDI) is the Democratic Partie's vehicle inside NED. Madeleine K. Albright is Chairman of the Board. Walter Mondale and Paul Kirk Jr. held that post previously Here are a few names from their Senior Advisory Committee that everyone should recognize:

Bill Bradley
Mario M. Cuomo
Michael S. Dukakis
Richard A. Gephardt
Thomas F. Eagleton
Theodore C. Sorensen
Andrew J. Young

[Mass]

19. Thanks for the list of NDI advisors. Obviously, they are not all

corporatist (Dukakis, Gephardt, Cuomo, Bradley).

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. So is it just an example of the leftist hand not knowing what

the rightist hand is doing?

I would like to hear about the good works it is doing - somehow all I hear is about overthrowing Aristide, funding coups in Venezuela, supporting military and corporatist parties across the third world.

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. "I would like to thank the National Endowment for Democracy "

VIDEOTAPED MESSAGE FROM DAW AUNG SAN SUU KYI ON THE OCCASION OF THE 10TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE MAY 1990 ELECTION VICTORY OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE FOR DEMOCRACY IN BURMA.

Presented at a Capitol Hill luncheon honoring the NLD
May 16, 2000

"It was a surprise to me to learn that the NED was planning to commemorate the 10th anniversary of the elections of 1990, but it was a very pleasant surprise."
Aung San Suu Kyi
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3190/assk/as...

There's this from Human Rights Watch:
U.N. Must Take Action on Human Rights in Burma

(Below I am quoting from one section of the long statement I have linked below"

"...Students and NGOs

The clearest evidence of the SPDC's intention to quash any opposition came with the October 7 press statement by Col. Thein Swe of the Office of Strategic Studies. Claiming a complex conspiracy "to incite anarchy" on the part of the NLD, student organizations, armed opposition groups and foreign non-governmental organizations (NGOs), the military authorities announced that fifty-four people, including twenty-three NLD members and some students, had been arrested. The SPDC's accusations, and the arrests of the students, were made after several small student protests broke out in Rangoon during August and September. At the time, the authorities appeared to be trying to reopen the country's universities, which had been closed since earlier student demonstrations in December 1996. The SPDC therefore charged that the NLD and other democracy activists were using the students as a cover to try and cause greater volatility and support for the people's parliament...

... Student groups in Burma, however, claim that the latest arrests mark the acceleration of a government clampdown on a new generation of students. The security services previously had concentrated on the 1988 generation of pro-democracy students, whose leader, Min Ko Naing, remains in prison amid continuing concerns about his state of health. Following the arrest early this year of the ABFSU central committee member Aung Tun, who had been writing a history of the student movement, the authorities began detaining individuals and breaking up literary groups or circles, a popular vehicle by which students have traditionally met and organized. According to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Burma, Aung Tun was sentenced to fifteen years' imprisonment in March under Article 5(j) of the 1950 Emergency Provisions Act and the 1962 Printers and Publishers Registration Law. The Special Rapporteur also reported that another student leader, Aung Kyaw Moe, who was serving a 14 year jail term in Thayawaddy Prison, died in the prison hospital on May 23 "after being beaten by prison authorities." The ABFSU itself calculates as many as 500 students have been detained in recent months and has provided Human Rights Watch with the names of sixty-five students and NLD youth members whom it believes are currently detained.

The SPDC has also accused the international media and four foreign NGOs—the Open Society Institute of the international financier George Soros, the Jesuit Refugee Service, the US-based National Endowment for Democracy and the Canadian International Center for Human Rights and Democratic Development—of supporting the recent unrest and protests, principally through assistance to border-based groups, expatriates and individuals in Thailand. "NGOs in the name of democracy are using all possible devious means and exerting all kinds of pressure to destabilize the internal situation," said Col. Thein Swe. This is a charge the Jesuit Refugee Service (JRS) swiftly denied."
http://hrw.org/english/docs/1998/11/09/burma1410_txt.ht...

Reposted from another thread

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. Or this work with the Carter Center

Arrival Statement by the National Democratic Institute/Carter Center Observer Delegation to the 2005 Liberia Elections, Oct. 6, 2005

MONROVIA, LIBERIA…The National Democratic Institute (NDI) and The Carter Center today announced the arrival of their delegation to observe the October 11 presidential and legislative elections in Liberia.

The 38-member multinational delegation is co-led by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former President of Benin, Nicephore Soglo. The delegation will include elected officials, electoral and human rights experts, regional specialists and political and civic leaders from 13 countries in North America, Europe and Africa.

The purposes of the delegation are: to express the international community's interest in and support for the development of democratic governance in Liberia, in particular for the organization of a democratic election process; and to provide an impartial and accurate report on that process to the Liberian people and the international community. These polls offer the people of Liberia an opportunity to further overcome a history of civil conflict and authoritarian rule. The establishment of democratic governance offers the best hope, and a difficult challenge, for attaining sustained peace and development in Liberia. The elections can be an important step in that direction.

The delegation will draw upon the findings of the ongoing joint election observation mission of NDI and The Carter Center. NDI and The Carter Center organized a pre-election delegation in early September and have maintained a continuous election monitoring presence in-country through resident staff and long-term observers. They will also monitor developments in the immediate postelection period.

http://www.cartercenter.org/viewdoc.asp?docID=2210&submenu=news

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Or this work related to Aids in Southern Africa

I went to some trouble earlier today to intentionlly research and cite sources for positive projects that received funding through one or more of NED's components that were fully independent of any NED component. I did that because someone questioned whether anythin that came from any NED related web site can be trusted. That's fine, but I don't have time to track down more independent information right now. This is from the NDI (Democratic affiliated component of NED) web site. If people think it is just propaganda, they are free to research further:

"HIV/AIDS and Governance in the Southern Africa Region

The HIV/AIDS pandemic is continuing to have a devastating impact on Africa, particularly in the southern Africa region, where many countries have prevalence rates that exceed 20 percent. While political leaders in countries throughout the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region are making a concerted effort to respond to the crisis, executive branches in the region are struggling to meet the myriad political, economic and social challenges the epidemic poses.

In an effort to better understand how legislatures are responding to the crisis and to identify areas where assistance might be needed, with funding from USAID, NDI in partnership with the Southern Africa Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) conducted an assessment of efforts to combat HIV/AIDS in the 12-country SADC region. The program culminated in a November 2004 report entitled, Survey of Legislative Efforts to Combat HIV/AIDS in Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region, which concludes that parliamentarians are not taking full advantage of their constitutionally mandated powers to address HIV/AIDS crisis. The report also highlights areas where parliamentarians can become more active in combating the pandemic. The report was distributed at the SADC-PF plenary session in Tanzania in December 2004, and will be available on the SADC-PF website in English and Portuguese in August, 2005. The website will also feature a portal where parliamentarians from the region can access and exchange information on best practices and HIV/AIDS strategies.

Based on the survey findings, NDI received funding from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) to conduct pilot programs in three countries-Mozambique, Namibia and Zambia-to strengthen parliamentary leadership and outreach on HIV/AIDS prevention, treatment and care. Specifically, NDI has identified unique programs in each of the three countries: "

http://www.ndi.org/worldwide/safrica/hivaids.asp

[Donna Zen]

42. 4 Organizations

This has nothing to do with hands. The organizations are separate. The fact that people who wish to remain pig-ignorant, or wish that fate on you, speak about NED as one entity is not because they have not been given the opportunity to learn more.

The NDI has nothing to do with the republican organization.

[Donna Zen]

38. The NDI

is a separate organization. NED is an endowment not an organization.

[Donna Zen]

37. Can you read?

NED is an endowment. That is it. NED does not include the AFL/CIO or anything.

FOUR separate...completely separate organizations write grants and access the National Endowment for Democracy. The republican grants have nothing to do with the Dem grants. NADA! The Union organization writes grants. The business organization writes grants. Where does the money come from? The Endowment.<---not a policy branch of anything. Not part of anything.


The money is divided equally among the 4<----that's FOUR SEPARATE organizations that means separate...as in, having nothing to do with one another.

[High Plains]

57. Well, in the '80s they used some of their money to undermine

the revolutionary leftist unions in El Salvador.

[Tom Rinaldo]

59. And they used some money to support the revolutionary

Solidarity Union movement in Poland in the 80's also. And the "they" difffers depending on which of the four organizations do the granting in each case.

I am not blind to negative things some of the granting entities have done. But the same things can be said about our god damn State Department. It has and is not hesitent to use every tool in the book if they choose to destabalize another nation. Mostly it happens when Republicans are in power. That is the underlying problem. That won't go away if NED does.

But I am all for Democrats taking control of Congress in 2006 and then if someone wants to investigate how money coming from the NED endowment is being used by the four seperate granting bodies, Hey I am all for it. Congress gives them their money. Our Senators and Representatives vote for it.

[High Plains]

71. Mr. Rinaldo, you are correct

NED is nothing more than another arm of US foreign policy. It is a means to interfere in the internal affairs of sovereign nations. Sometimes for good, I suppose, sometimes not.

Funny, more than a decade ago, my co-workers and I used to joke that the NED now does overtly what the CIA used to do covertly.

I guess one's feelings about NED derive from one's feelings about US foreign policy.

The fact that it exists, however, demonstrates the bipartisan consensus on these issues that make some of us very uncomfortable and unhappy with the Democratic Party.

[Catchawave]

11. Hmmmm....what Dems approved of this?

Wouldn't our tax dollars be better spent here at home, lifting our working poor out of poverty?

Sidebar: I love and appreciate the actor Gary Sinise, bloviating all over MSM, raising awareness and funds for school supplies for Iraqi children, but don't we need those instruments of education here too? :shrug:

[Mass]

17. Depends what you do with them. We cant live in a bubble and

helping poor countries is also important, particularly for the richest country in the world. The problem is not the money we spend helping poor countries (if anything, they could help with immigration issues). It is how we spend it and it is the money that we do not spend in this country because of tax cuts for the rich, not because of the few dollars we send abroad on humanitarian programs.

However, most of the programs you listed are really bad and clearly should not be paid by taxpayers dollars. I am shocked that the US Senate voted to commend them on a voice vote. This is very disappointing.

[Catchawave]

28. I can't and I won't.....

...live in a BUBBLE. Why I started this thread....sorry, not a big fan of international aid, til I know we can take care of our own first. Hope that didn't sound too selfish ?

[InternalDialogue]

5. Democracy Now did a long segment on NED yesterday.

Great show, lots of information:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/23/1441204

[Catchawave]

12. Thanks for the link !

Bookmarked!

[Donna Zen]

16. No Information in Democracy Now story

Democracy now does not specify which organization is doing any of this. Lazy. The republican granting branch and the labor branch were involved in Venzuela. NOT NED!

NED is an edowment.

[Donna Zen]

18. I'm not the government; I'm NDI...

The country now is ruled by militias, mullahs, and warlords. The simple citizen is not allowed to have his own rights, to say freely what he wants.” He put part of the blame on the Americans. “They are not caring much for a simple Iraqi citizen. They care for a chief of a tribe here, a mullah there, a religious man here, a militiaman here, head of a party there.”

It was possible to find Iraqis who were already coming forward to lay claim to their country’s political future. They were few in number, vastly outmatched in money and power by the parties and the militias, and they were, I thought, the toughest people on earth. Sometimes there were Americans ready to support them.

The National Democratic Institute was an organization funded largely by the U.S. government and affiliated with the Democratic Party’; it operated with relative independence, under the direction of the National Endowment for Democracy. The institute’s purpose was to find the “simple citizens” in a place like Iraq and help them to participate in democratic political life. This tended to be obscure, poorly funded work...

The workshop in Hilla took place in the city’s former secret-police headquarters, which had become a human-rights center. Forty Iraqis--including a political science professor and an unemployed sports instructor--had traveled at some risk to the attend the class. They listened intently and took careful notes as Dettman (NDI) stood, shoulders hunched, before a flip chart and resented his ten-step program on message development and voter contact. ..Dettman had told me earlier, “Politics is the art of getting people to vote for you. It’s applicable all over the world. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t have a job.”

“I’m not the government,” Dettman said. “I’m NDI...”

Assassins’ Gate, G. Parker, (409-410)

(repost)

[Adelante]

21. Oh, dear, is there really a third current thread on this?

Here is the second:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2386378

It explains a lot about the NED for those who would like to know.

Bye :hi:

[Mass]

22. You wonder why so many people are interested in NED right now

[Adelante]

26. Well, when a thread covers it pretty much

Open another thread! It's tiresome and tiring :boring: especially when there's so much work to be done this year. We need to focus on getting the Repugs out and instead we're fighting ourselves and rehashing the NED. Yikes. Yikes. Yikes.

[Donna Zen]

31. They are not interested in NED

they are interested in making shit up. If they were interested in NED, they would actually find out something about 1) how it is structured, and 2) what organizations that access NED funding do.

[CarolNYC]

25. Unfortunately, it seems that the folks starting the threads

don't really want to know anything...else they wouldn't be so blatantly ignoring certain posts that answer their questions but don't fit their agenda...

Perhaps, though, some of the folks reading actually do want to know so it's good the info is getting out there.

[Catchawave]

30. I hope that's what my thread did.....

Unfortunately, I still have no idea what NED is :shrug:

I know I care about keeping and taking care of our own citizens first, especially the working poor in OUR country.

[Mass]

33. Their website.

http://www.ned.org/

For the rest, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you believe that cutting funds for humanitarian missions in Africa is going to help working poors in our country, I think you are fooled by the other side's argument. All they want is to cut BOTH.

[Catchawave]

41. I know that website from the earlier thread......oy

As much as I'm a "whacko" who wants to save the world too....no offense to whackos...just 'splain the rules, I'll play the game!

Can we keep the FOOKING money HERE to help America's working stiff poor ?!?

Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.....NED? Tell me about NED...PLEASE!

[Mass]

44. The two can be done, you know!!

As for NED, as somebody suggested, google will tell you what you want to know.

[Donna Zen]

34. Then you should be concerned with Halliburton

the money endowed to NED is spit compared to the corporate welfare.

[jonnyblitz]

36. good luck on this. you are just going to get shouted down by

the Clarkies. anybody who knows how to use google can learn for themselves. I am not sure if it is as bad as "school of the America's" (which i just finished reading a book on) but it DOES like to "influence" events in other countries in order to benefit US interests, usually against the interests of the rank and file population. People from both sides of the political spectrum here in the US (the narrowly defined DEM-REPUB spectrum) are involved. I saw a critique on a libertarian site (CATO, i think) that claims it "meddles".

[Donna Zen]

39. Either that

or to be misinformed by people who refuse to read.

NED is an endowment! For organizations write grants that they then send into NED. The libertarians are republicans that smoke dope. Big deal what CATO says...after all they thought this war was just great. So surprised to find people at DU who just love the CATO.

[jonnyblitz]

46. yes,,,,it was what you said plus more, many groups have an

"above ground" benevolent appearing function. I believe it is YOU who refuse to read. i just used CATO as an example to illustrate it has its critics from all walks, not just the left. the OP wanted this to be about this ISSUE and not possible 2008 candidates and IMMEDIATELY Clarkies are on here questioning why the OP has started YET ANOTHER THREAD. you guys are PROJECTING. USE GOOGLE and READ FOR YOURSELF. I don't have a favorite candidate I have NO ULTERIOR MOTIVE except the issues and the truth!!

[Donna Zen]

54. 4 groups

The CATO is a greedy group who wouldn't advocate giving someone dying of thirst a drink of water, that's why they hate NED. It's money that could go into fat cat pockets. And with three threads where the conversation keeps treating NED as if it a government agency, when it is not, makes any conversation meaningless.

You can google CATO all you want.

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. I haven't seen shouting. I've seen information shared

And a lot of information has been shared by Clark supporters and I don't see why you think that is a bad thing. I don't think that it was a bad thing that information was shared about Democracy Now's take on NED either. You are right that the DEM-REPUB spectrum is narrow when one considers all the possibilities. Surely that isn't news to anyone here. Which begs the question, why are any of us participating in the game played between the foul lines of the Republican and Democratic Parties? I have my own answer, strategically I believe it is the only real game in town right now to effect key decisions that effect hundreds of millions of lives. And 90% of the American public currently thinks between the lines of that narrow spectrum also. So if you don't want to play ball with any of the players inside of that narrow spectrum, with your eyes open knowing where they come from, don't. Go outside it and see where that takes you.

[Catchawave]

45. ***BUZZZ*** Tom Rinaldo....

My OP begged we keep candidates out of this/MY discussion.

WHY,WHY,WHY...have a nice :hi: day :loveya:

[CarolNYC]

49. Catchawave,

I'm having a hard time figuring out how you are reading this thread...Do you see the post that Tom is responding to? I don't think it was Tom who brought any candidates into this thread. Or are you choosing to ignore that also?

[Catchawave]

60. He smacked Edwards upside the face.....

No offense :shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

63. I'm missing this point

He likes NED though.

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. ***BUZZ*** Catchawave...

Gee, isn't that something you might want to say to the poster I RESPONDED TO? You know, the one who complained about CLARKIES and thus was the first person to MENTION A CANDIDATE? Are you reading everything on this thread with equal attention? Now if you think that person using the word ClARKIE was not mentioning a candidate, well go take a look at the word I used. I didn't mention a candidate either.

Have a nice day yourself

[Catchawave]

61. Sorry....missed your point again :(

I really tried to deflect NED from Clark, really, really I did.

I've failed ...earlier on DU...to deflect Clark from Fox too...failed there :(

Go Edwards...ducking...:rofl:

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. You can get up now, I won't throw a fit n/t

[Catchawave]

65. Wasn't expecting a Clarkbash :( (generic)

Good.. luck to you all, and thanks for not helping me with this NED thing...you're on your own :hi:

[Tom Rinaldo]

66. How about if John Edwards explained it for you instead

since you can't seem to hear anything coming from a Clark supporter:

Edwards Announces New ‘Strategy for Freedom’
Author: John Edwards


January 13, 2004
Council on Foreign Relations


Senator John Edwards (D-NC) today announced a new "Strategy for Freedom," a detailed plan for promoting democracy around the world by establishing an official list of imprisoned dissidents, creating new international institutions committed to democracy promotion, increasing U.S. support for international democracy programs, and reorienting U.S. aid programs to promote democracy...

... Increasing support for democracy programs. Edwards will double funding for the National Endowment for Democracy, which supports grassroots civil society programs around the world.
http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=6666


He makes a better case for NED than anyone here did.

[Catchawave]

67. I.don't.think.so...

Leave Edwards, et al, out of NED, as I requested on my OP.

Thankyouverymuch :hi:

[incapsulated]

69. Sorry, we won't play your games. Your boy EDWARDS

Supports NED. Go ask him why we need it. And do some research before you try again, it's kinda pathetic, this thread.

And the next time you try to start a thread that is so transparently a Clark bash, give us a little more credit for intelligence. There is already one thread attacking him for supporting NED and starting another while throwing in the SOA is about as silly and obvious as it gets.

[CarolNYC]

73. I can't figure this one out myself

No one could be as dumb as this one is appearing to be in this thread, could they? Or does this one always appear this dumb? I mean, you can't be that stupid and survive. Right?

[Adelante]

70. So no Democrat told you about NED?

You just heard about it today and it rang an alarm? Jesus, Catchawave, if you want to play with the big kids, you'll have to do better than this! :rofl:

[Donna Zen]

47. Democracy Now's take is misinformed

You cannot do a story on anything NED without separating the 4 organizations. You just can't. NED doesn't write the grants, the 4 separate organizations write the grants. NED is an endowment, and a very small one at that. Spreading democracy has always been a whipping boy for democracy now. They don't like it.

[jonnyblitz]

50. yeah. "democracy now" hates democracy.

that is a good one. this thread has turned quite looney as they always do when people are only concerned with promoting their candidate...

have fun.

[jonnyblitz]

53. people can google and read for themselves

it is just obvious to anybody with an open mind what is going on in this thread and all the others on this topic. It/s not even about Clark for me. It's about the organization and what it is REALLY up to.

[CarolNYC]

55. Well, I agree with you there...

It is very very obvious what's going on in these threads....

[CarolNYC]

43. jonny, dear, who is shouting?

These are the most bizarre "discussions". People ask a question, claiming they want to know something. Other people answer the question, but with facts and information that doesn't fit the questioner's agenda, and so the supposedly curious people stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen or close their eyes and refuse to read, acting as if the responses don't even exist...and then you have someone come in and complain that Clarkies are shouting people down...simply because they are trying to answer, in very civilized intelligent fashion, the questions that are supposedly being asked....Talk about parallel universes!

"Debates" I've had with hard right wingers on other sites have made a lot more sense than these threads...Sheesh!

[jonnyblitz]

48. LOL..damn,...you are all illustrating me point quite nicely

and PROJECTING UP A STORM..i dont think our facts fit your PROMOTION of your particular candidate agenda. open minded people will see what is going on.

all anybody has to do IS GOOGLE AND READ EVERYTHING and decide for themselves.

[CarolNYC]

52. There it is...the parallel universe again...sheesh again! n/t

[Jai4WKC08]

68. Well, I'm gonna bring a specific candidate into this

Because I think you, Catchawave, need to know. Assuming you don't already.

Please read: http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=6666

Subect: Edwards Announces New ‘Strategy for Freedom’
Author: John Edwards
Date: January 13, 2004
Excerpt:
Substantially increase support for international democracy programs, starting by doubling the funding of the National Endowment for Democracy. The NED plays a vital role in supporting grass-roots civil society programs worldwide, but its resources do not match the importance of its mission. Edwards will double the NED's budget to over $80 million -- focusing specifically on programs in the Middle East and Africa -- and call on U.S. allies in Europe and elsewhere to establish similar democracy promotion institutions and match these funds.

Beats me why Edwards writes about himself in the third person.

[High Plains]

72. Okay, all you NED-lovers out there.

If it is such a good idea, why is it illegal for other countries to interfere in our political process?

What if the Iranian Endowment for Democracy wants to fund the Religious Moonbat Party?
What if the Venezuelan Endowment for Democracy wants to fund the Greens?
What if the Israeli Endowment for Democracy wants to help Republicans organize?
What if the Chinese Endowment for Democracy wants to give some money to the Democrats?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

[bloom]

75. Is this General Discussion:DLC?

Sheesh people - this is supposed to be a progressive website - not a site to support those who support coups against leaders of countries leaning left...

Like a lot a lot of people - I hadn't heard that much about NED or the IRI before the segment on Democracy Now!

Sounds like there are a lot of people who are afraid of people knowing about this stuff.


I suggest people read the Democracy Now! interview and explore the websites of these things themselves and not be bullied by the Clark or whoever people. And maybe NED does something good once in awhile. That would make it all the easier to hide/fund their nonsense.

This is a small snip of the larger interview:

Now, the historical record on the National Endowment for Democracy is very clear, when we look at the work of people like Philip Agee and William Robinson and William Blum, Noam Chomsky and others, and most recently, if we look at the work of attorney and independent journalist, Eva Golinger, who exposed, through Freedom of Information Act requests, the role that the N.E.D. played in attempting to subvert democracy and the revolutionary process that’s unfolding in Venezuela in 2002. The N.E.D. played a crucial role in fomenting the opposition to Hugo Chavez, and they did play a role in the attempted coup against him in April of 2002, and very much the same patterns we have seen develop in Haiti.

On your show, in 2004, you interviewed Max Blumenthal, who wrote an article, an important article for Salon that outlined the role of the International Republican Institute, and when we talk about the N.E.D., we can't talk about them without also talking about the International Republican Institute and the other affiliated organizations. There’s a virtual labyrinth of these organizations that receive funding that’s specifically earmarked for the undermining of any widespread social movements, any rudiments of popular democracy that should manifest, either in Latin America or anywhere in the world.

So, again, this is sort of the premise of what the National Endowment for Democracy really does, and as we look at what they're doing in Haiti – and how I was able to learn about what they’re currently doing in Haiti came about through the process of a first documentary reporting trip to Haiti in September and October of 2005, where we spoke to a number of N.E.D. grantees, Haitian organizations that received funding from the National Endowment for Democracy. I returned to Canada and set about to conduct a series of interviews with N.E.D. and any program officer, in particular, with I.R.I. officials, with in-country officials who are managing several million dollars in U.S.-funded democracy promotion activities, as you said also, that are linked closely to the Haitian elite, to the opposition organizations, such as the Group of 184, the Democratic Convergence. These are the organizations that agitated most strongly for the overthrow of Aristide and that were working with the N.E.D. and the I.R.I. in the years preceding the 2004 coup.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/23/1441204

[Jai4WKC08]

76. Not a progressive website

A Democratic website. As in Democratic Party. That includes BOTH wings, and all us runofthemill liberals in the middle.

[bloom]

77. "Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals"

1. This is a moderated discussion forum with rules. We have a team of volunteer moderators who delete posts and ban disruptors. Members are strongly urged to familiarize themselves with our rules, and make an effort to become a positive member of our community. Those who do not risk having their posts deleted or their posting privileges revoked.

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

etc.