BUSH will be impeached by August 2006- I'm serious- for real-this is why:

[FogerRox]

I've been on the Fence about this whole idea of the Republicans Impeaching Bush, until tonite. Tonite I fell off the fence, I put the pieces together. I am at least 51% sure this will happen.

Here are my first thoughts from December 24th:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2332042

Yeah I know-- impeachment is a long shot- it ain't gonna happen-- we gotta get the house back.

A veneer of democracy

So far the Bush regime has maintained a veneer of a real democracy. And as long as that veneer remains-- they are all vulnerable to impeachment and indictments. At this point in time the BUSH regime has not pulled the trigger on martial law, or some similar power grab. It may be that they cant make the ultimate grab for power without losing what base that is left to the neo-cons. Without the Republican Party the Fascists dint have much in the way of support. SO, I'm guessing that for some reason-- they are not ready-- or are unwilling, at this point in time. And as long as that veneer remains-- they are all venerable.

Republicans in the House have to run for re-election in 2006. It may come to the point where they go after the BUSH Regime-- just to keep their seats in the House, this way republicans maintain power in DC, rather than give it up. If they don't go after BUSH--- the DEM'S may take their House seats and impeach & even Convict.

Republicans throwing BUSH to the wolves

BUT, ask yourself, to maintain political power under the constraints of maintaining a veneer of a real democracy, does the Republican Party throw BUSH to the wolves? And is it better for the country to have republicans take out the Bush Regime prior to the 2006 Congressional races, possibly mitigating a pendulum swing to the left in the House, in 2006.

In my mind, that is the smart thing to do. but I dint see the Republican Party doing this. I dint see the bold personalities of quality leadership and thinking in the Republican Party. And I dint see a consensus forming quick enough to take advantage of throwing BUSH to the wolves. I dint think the republicans dint have what it takes, but the democrats do.

Later in that thread:

If I was in the Noe con leadership-- I would consider throwing BUSH to the wolves. It facilitates getting re-elected and maintaining power. It would allow me to control the process. And folks could lean back and think-- "see the process works, everything is just fine."

If The DEMs get the HOuse back in 2006 that process will be controlled not by me-- said the supposed Neo COn leader----

Throwing BUSH to the Wolves is a way to change the puppet on the stage (white house), and make repubs look like "REAL REASONABLE FOLK".

Then by January 13th I had re-worked the idea a bit more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2366893

Why Repubs wont throw BUSH to the wolves

BUT, ask yourself, to maintain political power. . .

>snip<

I don't think the republicans have what it takes, but do the Democrats ?

Think Alito & the Supreme Court. The High Court appointed BUSH, it is possible that with Alito installed they will make the final move. The High Court will validate whatever is needed by BUSHCo. While still maintaining a very thin veneer of Democracy to maintain the Repub base, the NSA spying will be used to control political opposition.

Is the ascendancy of Alito to the Supreme Court: checkmate?

I think installing ALito to the high Court may be the final move, it is certainly CHECK, maybe CHECKMATE. Which is why I support a total effort in communicating to the DEM Senators that they MUST Filibuster the Alito nomination in the Supreme Court.

>snip<

Faced with an unacceptable situation in the Ukraine-- Ukrainians took to the Streets and SHUT IT DOWN

Faced with an unacceptable situation Rosa Parks got on the BUS.

Faced with an unacceptable situation Martin Luther King Marched.

SO tonite I asked myself what is wrong with this picture, Republicans are now using the "I" word. WTF ! HUH ! I have to tell you that I am in the middle of reading a book written by a Chinese Military General Sun Tzu, called the "Art of War". Sun Tzu lived about 1000 bc. This is exactly the kind of book Carl Rove would read, its about strategy and tactics on the battlefield. But many of the concepts transfer well to politics.

I think the Repubs will allowed to Impeach Bush. there are too many Repubs saying that this Spygate is big, The want to investigate.

And they will be allowed to do so. . . . as long as they vote for Alito.

After all who is more important to the revolution, Alito or Bush? The Repubs get to look good going after one of their own, and they can make some noises about Lobby reform and everything will seem just fine. The Repubs get to control the process, the subpoenas and control the damage.

And they will have something to run on in 2006. "We cleaned up the Corruption". "Bush went too far, and we impeached him".

"One who seeks peace without setting any prior conditions, is executing a strategy"
-Sun Tzu-

If I am right- Stopping Alito Throws a wrench in the works, and gives us more leverage in going after Bush ourselves. If we stop Alito, all bets are off on the Republicans impeaching Bush.

Roger Fox

[AX10]

1. KICK

[pbartch]

20. KICK.....yeah we need to KICK SOME ASS

take to the streets


March like in we did during the Vietnam War.


Get the ANTI WAR - Anti Establishment MUSIC going full blast.
Get the College kids involved.


KICK SOME ASS!!

[FogerRox]

29. If they Filibuster--- we march on DC

[BillZBubb]

2. Paralysis by analysis.

I think you need to take a deep breath and think about this some more.

We need to stop Alito, period. Any connection to impeaching Bush is a stretch even 10 foot rubber band couldn't make.

[FogerRox]

3. What would your strategy be as a Repub?

How do you win in '06.

Right now our base is screaming Filibuster Alito, Get the House back & Impeach BUSH. They know this. You are a Repub, what do you do?

You certainly dont lose the House and let the DEMS loose again in DC.

[Amaryllis]

4. As long as they control elections they can do whatever the hell they want.

Period. They dont need to do ANYTHING to win except have rigged tabulators and scanners. They no longer have to be responsive to the people to get "elected." Hagel, CHambliss, Coleman...how many others weren't really elected? Not to mention the house.

[FogerRox]

7. Then why is the Veneer of democracy left in place ?

If they had all this power they could just shut the door on the Constition. That hasnt happened yet-- though I think we are very close--

never the less why is the Veneer of democracy left in place ?

I'm just not sure of the omnipotence of the DREs yet--

[Usrename]

19. Truthfully, I don’t see anything wrong with your opening post.

A few months ago I started to try and ignore the partisan issue in trying to figure out what is going to happen next. Several good folks convinced me to try this approach. The reasoning being that this is actually a propaganda war. In its center, that is how it is being waged.

Accepting this as true allowed me to be persuaded that the much touted partisanship may be another contrivance that is ginned up to confound and distract from what is really going on. I now believe strongly that this is true.

This is illustrated in our problem with Elito. Why is it a problem in the first place? 45 democrats and only 41 needed to stop him. Ideology or dogma or fascism or whatever you want to call it is the problem. Too many Senators either believe in unbridled power for the elites, or too many are fooled by the propaganda machine. It is hard to believe that they are still being fooled. The Iraq war resolution, yeah, I can buy that many were fooled. Even a few republicans would probably not have voted for it if they had known what these monsters were up to.

This is the wire that I see everyone teetering on. The problem created for the republicans by some democrats jumping ship is becoming greater and greater. Some wish that the democrats would filibuster so that they can continue to keep their heads down. And of course it is not a stretch to tie impeachment into this. Katrina killed Bush as a political tool. He’s useless to them now.

Just ponder why the Senate is looking into spygate instead of the House. It is the tried and true method of whitewashing these things. They have covered all their tracks this way, with the help of a few democrats to make it look bi-partisan (you know who I mean).

Our party leadership are still patting themselves on the back for blocking the renewal of the Patriot Act. Don’t they see the regime has moved on way past that? They are now arguing that it is completely unnecessary due to the inherent powers of the executive.

Here’s a thread posted a couple months ago just before Fitzmas. Change the stuff about Plamegate to reflect the current situation with the Scalito nomination and you’ll see what I mean.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5093567

Bottom line, parties don’t mean much right now to everyday people. The divide may be wide but it is not deep. It is very shallow. A pox on both houses is the general feel among the rank and file of both parties. And more alarmingly, party doesn’t mean much to our elected officials either. Some are traitors plain and simple. That’s why there is so much talk about third parties or taking the party back from within. People know. The Congress is starting to realize that people know. It makes everything frightening but crystal clear.

[Amaryllis]

36. The veneer is left in place because the people don't realize they

are living in a fascist system as long as the veneer of democracy remains.
It's to their advantage to maintain the illusion that this is still a democracy.

[FogerRox]

46. exactly

It's to their advantage to maintain the illusion that this is still a democracy.

[Doctor_J]

38. Shutting the door might get the heartlanders out of their barcaloungers

it's much easier this way.

[FogerRox]

34. I am not so sure that the control of the vote is 100% absolute

Why maintain a veneer of democracy-- they seem to have gone to some lengths to do so.

And if they do what I think they might do-- they have something to run on-- thusly something to win on, so with some vote hacking its a big win for the repubs.

Inother words-- if DEMS were winning in the final week of October by 65%-- ANd then they all lost by 48%-- that would rasie some IRE. But if the House races are close-- hacking i snot so obvious-- and its easier to maintain the veneer of Democracy.

[formernaderite]

40. repubs going after Bush? Not going to happen

Regardless of how much we want this...he's the reason they GAINED seats in 02 and 04. The presidents party usually doesn't expand their grip on DC....if we're lucky, things go back to normal and the repubs lose some seats. Unless we sweep and gain both the congress and the senate...THERE WILL BE NO IMPEACHMENT.
But I love your passion man, I guess I just better readjust the tinfoil.

[windbreeze]

Hit the nail on the head with this statement....

"We need to stop Alito, period."

Right now, that's where our focus should be.. I hope all the letters, petitions, phone calls made to OUR gov't rep's...has told them...that WE KNOW how important accomplishing that one thing is..

In my book, our very Democracy depends on it..
wb

[bear425]

5. I have been trying to reconcile this situation for weeks now myself.

I tend to agree that this is chess to the nth degree. The fact that Arlen Specter is voting to confirm Alito and in the same breath is calling for investigation into possible impeachable offenses by the White House regarding warrantless wiretapping, leads me to believe that they are playing this game two steps, maybe three, ahead.

I hate to use the game metaphor, but it seems that the (R's) are playing with our democracy as such.

Alito is endgame. Without a filibuster from what's left of our Dem leadership, we may as well close up shop and let them roll over the rest of the playing field. How's that for a mixed metaphor?!

Oh, and k&r.

edit: going to beddy bye now. Will check in a.m.

[FogerRox]

6. Thanks-- Checkmate-- yes And yes Specter is telegraphing

[Mnemosyne]

8. .

[FogerRox]

9. thanks--

Please Kick & Recommend

[buddysmellgood]

10. He's almost out of office anyway. By the time the fake impeachment comes

to pass, he's had his two terms. These are people who will do anything to stay in power. Nothing is too far fetched. They let Bin Laden attack us.

[gunsaximbo]

12. I';m waiting for the next two shoes to fall off the horse.

We'll see something real big happen before the next election and he'll be appointed presidunce for a third term somehow.

[buddysmellgood]

14. It's not out of the question. I'm sure Cheney has already planned his next

attack.
Welcome to DU.

[Carla in Ca]

15. Exactly, but we will be stuck with

a Supreme Court with a conservative agenda for a generation...at least.


They let Bin Laden attack us.

You don't know how much that makes so much sense as time goes on. So many questions have been answered, like why he went from 'dead or alive' to 'I don't think much about him'. Why we went to Iraq. Making Medicare costly and confusing, cutting student loans, pension funds being raided corporate mergers (media in particular). The latest issue, wiretapping without warrants, is becoming all too clear as well. Our rights, civil, personal and otherwise, are slowly being taken away.

You cannot have a ruling party and a democracy. One has to concede to the other. But which one will it be? I will NEVER stop fighting for the I want. Never.

:patriot:

[Carla in Ca]

16. dupe

[gunsaximbo]

11. Not to mention that the hammer is out of commission

But if we the Dem's impeach Bush it will have a negative effect on our (for lack of a better word) "image".

I think the nation is tired of these impeachments. Nothing gets done and they are extremely distracting. Neither side wants to play this game of trading impeachments. So, I don't really think the Dem's will Impeach Bush - UNLESS there are really extenuating circumstances.

We should do everything in our power to get Alito out, however. He is more important than the Presidunce. He'll be around for the next 30 years reversing everything that we have fought for for the last 100 years. We need to force the repugnants into the nuclear option to make them look bad.

Anyway - that's my two cents worth.

Thanks,

Guns A.

[emlev]

13. I bet my mother

That Bush would not leave office on 1/20/09. If he leaves on that day, she wins. If he leaves before, I win. If he leaves after or never, I get paid but we all lose.

[Innocent Smith]

17. The chance of the Repubs in congress impeaching him...

...is close to 0%. Bush has hard core base support around 30%. These are the same people that vote for Repubs for congress. The vast majority of Repub congresspeople are not going to go against what this hard core base wants. Not gonna happen.

[FogerRox]

26. Then what do Repubs run on? Because the way it looks now--

conventional wisdom mught be that the DEMs will take back at least 18 seats.

Put your self in the Repubs shoes--- OK--

What do you run on? How do you win?

My theory says repubs might gain more seats-- consolidate power. If I was a repub, my strategy would be to win more seats.

[Innocent Smith]

41. political suicide

The Repubs are not going to impeach him because it would be political suicide for themselves. You can gauge how hurt Bush is currently preceived to be politically by the Democrats in the Senate not even to be willing to filibuster. If the Dems won't even filibuster this guy there is no way the Repubs impeach. As they say, the proof is is the pudding, so will see on September 1st whether the Repubs have impeached him or not.

Rothenberg currently is projecting a 5 to 8 seat pickup for the Dems. He also said that that number could trend higher for them. I thought I remember Cook saying a similar number. Where are you hearing an 18 seat pickup?

A couple of days ago in his speech Rove telegraphed what their strategy is going to be. Paraphrasing him "Bush believes it is in our National Security to easedrop on al qaeda, some Democrats obvious don't." Dems weak on National Defense. Sound familiar? I expect ads in October playing Reid's "We killed the Patriot Act" - taken out of context with misleading commentary.

[FogerRox]

45. about 2 weeks ago-- I asked DU - how much can we pick up?

AS far as repubs impeaching Bush-- DO you agree that it would take the winds out of the DEMs sails?

[Innocent Smith]

48. It'd take the wind out of Repub sails

Their moral would drop through the floor and they'd be very upset at whoever voted for impeachment and also be more likely to stay home instead of vote. The Dems would pick up a lot of seats in the mid-term election. Look what happened after the Repubs told Nixon if he didn't step down that he would be impeached. Huge Democratic pickups in the mid-term elections in 1974.

Rothenberg and Cook get paid to be accurate and pay attention to individual races. They have a fairly good reputation for being non-partisan.

[guidod]

18. I'm confused...

...I think you better jump back on the fence.

[elehhhhna]

21. Another SUPER reason for Bush (Yes, Bush) to WANT Impeachment:

His immediate pardon by President Cheney "for the good of the country". He could not count on this if Dems grab power in '08--

An added plus in Cheney's column; Cheney will have his short moment as President.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. For the umpteenth time . . .

what is the point? Not one of you guys have been able to answer this yet. What is the point? Have you checked the line of succession?

[windbreeze]

23. There is NO point....Stop Alito

and forget impeachment....we'd have to impeach them all...and that is not going to happen..
wb

[Usrename]

25. The point is political.

It is designed to be a political process. Their message and the methods would be discredited. The incentive to do it soon has to do with succession. If they lose the House and then are impeached, they lose the White House.

[FogerRox]

28. R-ight

" If they lose the House and then are impeached, they lose the White House."

You have thought it thru--

[FogerRox]

27. What is the point? I might guess that you didnt really read the OP

The point of my post is that repubs will contol the process of impeachment-control damage, control supbeneas, and have something to run on --all with out removing GWB from office. If they wish.

If I am right-- the Repubs gain seats in '06.

If the Repubs dont have something to run on-- they loose seats-- we win them-- we impeach-- we control things. Why would the repubs allow that to happe

What would you do if you were a repub-- let DEMs use BUSH to run on? And win? If you were a repubican, how do you stop that?

[Usrename]

31. Again, my only recommendation has to do with the framing.

Quoting another poster from another board:

"The country is going to split on the issue of Empire...". - Virgil

We already use the BFEE shorthand here. I just don't believe that the issue can be properly framed in rep vs dem terms at all. Consider it for a while and you will see that it is a much more dangerous situation.

The real tension is between the corporate and the masses. Party ID is almost meaningless now. They (the enemy, the BFEE, the cabal, the vast right-wing conspiracy, or whoever they are) are not loyal to anything. The repubs were useful for a while. Same with the fundies. But they would not be where they are now without some deep, deep, deep involvement and support from some dems. Some are openly PNAC now, while others are covert still.

If you were to replace the group you are referring to as republicans in your thesis with the group BFEE then the whole thing is framed better, I think, and it gets clearer. The rank and file bushies are not the only threat here. It is more dangerous, I think.

[FogerRox]

33. Username

my post 27 was in answer to post 22.

You have grabbed the larger issue-- I tend to agree.

[Usrename]

43. Unfortunatly, you cannot hear my voice go up those two octives.

I get overly excited when pondering what they are up to and how to offer the most resistance possible. They scare me. I appreciate your patience. This is not a drill. We need a plan or something. As more control is lost the situation gets less predictable, if you know what I mean.

[yellowdogmi]

24. Stop Alito!

You have posed some interesting questions. To begin with I think that the leadership of the GOP is staggering from the body blows that they have recently received i.e. Abramoff, etc. I think that they are keeping their heads down waiting for the other shoe to drop. The big wild card right now is how much longer the BFEE has their brain. If fitz comes in with an indictment on turd blossom that could tilt the scale. I am also seeing speculation of an internal power struggle between W , Rove and Cheney, Libby. I think that you are right that once the ship starts sinking the rats will be jumping. The question of Alito plays out like this in my opinion. They are already talking of his confirmation before the vote. I think that is just bluster to shore up the base and to paint the DEMS when they filibuster or to scare them out of it altogether. I unfortunately would bet on his confirmation at this point. At this point I believe that the strategy from the GOP is to brush past all of these incidents and to start to comprehensively attack ROE. I don't believe turd blossoms misdirection that they will use terra as the election issue. That is just more misdirection similar to the gay marriage amendment. Talk up the press and their opponents about one issue while inflaming the herd of sheeple over something that matters to them. Overturning ROE will be the payback to the Religious Right that they have been waiting for. It has already started with several states looking at new restrictions. Attacking ROE will energize their base for the November midterms. They are going to press what slipping advantage they have and probably do it well. If they win the midterms the dems might as well disband and form new allegiances. Sorry for such a pessimistic take on this but that is how I see all of this playing out. The only chance to derail this agenda is now with the Filibuster of Alito.

[Independent_Liberal]

30. FogerRox...

I must admit, you do have a point. We'll wait and see. My prediction is that first, Cheney will be indicted on treason charges by Fitzgerald and then he'll resign and McCain will be appointed VP. Then Bush is impeached or resigns to avoid it altogether like Nixon and McCain is sworn in as president and he appoints Lieberman as his VP.

[Usrename]

32. Bush won't resign or survive impeachment.

He doesn't have enough character to make it through those things. If I were to wager, I would bet on an unfortunate bicycle/pretzel accident. Much sympathy to be had from the base, especially for brother Jeb who could take up the mantle.

[FogerRox]

35. Independent_Liberal- thanks

The other side of the coin may be that the repubs are getting beat up-- that we need to pound the hell out of them. Their leadership is mostly indicted or being investigated. If we keep pounding on them- the cookie will turn to powder.

Which is a viable scenario too, I have to admit.

SInce I am in the middle of reading the ART OF WAR-- the OP is written from a tactical and strategic angle.

[Doctor_J]

37. CHeney will be indicted?

By whom? Who is going to prosecute? What planet or you living on?

[FogerRox]

47. Independent_Liberal

That could happen--

I think the more important point is to think how the Repubs think they can keep both Houses and the WH. What are they planning--

[FogerRox]

39. Kick Alito to the Curb

[Disturbed]

42. Impeachment is a trial.

If found guilty of charges the person being impeached can only be ousted. Any criminal charges must be brought afterward. GWB is merely a sock puppet. The power is in the Multi-Corps. Impeaching GWB will garner the USA nothing even if he would be found guilty of any crimes.

[McCamy Taylor]

44. Bush is throwing the GOP to the wolves, why shouldnt they do same to him?

Scalito is going to kill the Republican Party in the next couple of cycles when Americans get a look at what the new Reactionary SCOTUS is up to. And if the Dems do what I think they are going to do---a fillibuster by Dems only which cant succeed because of the nuclear option---the Dems will clean up politically as the valiant minority party that gave it their best shot.

All this so that W. can appear "strong" for about three days in the polls, before Fitz and WMDs and Bush Spied come back to haunt him.

Remember how happy America was withj Newt when he shut down the House? America is going to have the same warm, fuzzy feelings for dear old Frist when he goes nuclear.

[Rainscents]

49. Kick!!!

:kick: