No Filibuster + Bush 36% Approval Rating = (Nader's' Dems = Repubs)

[Stanchetalarooni]

If these Senate Dems do not move to stop Alito then I can begin to see a glimmer of a wisp of understanding of Ralph Nader.

[stevedeshazer]

1. Heh.

:popcorn:

[nini]

3. oh please pass some of that over here

this will get fun


:popcorn:

[stevedeshazer]

6. Extra butter?

[nini]

7. for sure!

I like cheese on it too!


:popcorn:


thanks!

[politicaholic]

2. Point taken.

That doesn't mean that Ralph Nader is the answer or that the Democrats should turn their backs on their party.

[ixion]

4. so dems should 'stay the course', even though the DLC has made it

quite clear they intend to move further right?

:shrug:

[politicaholic]

8. No, there's just no need to move to a different party...

If you don't like your elected officials then vote for a new democrat rather than the status quo.

As much as I agree with much of what the Green Party standing for and I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ralph Nader's ideas, I feel that their image problems will just ultimately fragment the democratic party leading to a further dismantling of all of the work great democrats such as FDR and Woodrow Wilson have done.

I'm sorry, this Alito nomination might just back fire against the republicans. Much like conservative prohibition and deregulated markets lead to a market crash and social upheaval that welcomed in Democratic political domination for more than half a century.]

I personally would rather see a filibuster, but if you look at history, this too will pass. It has been a long time American tradition to react, not learn.

[applegrove]

5. Nader caused this whole thing. The neocons always try and tribalize

the parts of the opposition. Why in 2004, Nader even took money from GOP donors. What does that tell ya? That instead of working with the Liberals - the far left is encouraged to radicalize and see their cousins as the problem. Bickering and fighting. Leaving the right flank all alone for the GOP to dominate.

Just happened in Canada too.

Why does the far left take their talking points from the right wingers? If someone followed you around at a party who was an asshole and said to you - I think your moderate friend doesn't like you, they are not really like you, you should not like them, .... is that all it would take to get rid of the moderate in your life?

The Dems do suffer from a lack of power. Filibuster will not garner anything - except to keep Abramoff, spygate, Rovegate, corporate gate off the news.

Why do that in an election year?

I don't think it is wise to filibuster when we all know Alito will end up sitting on the bench either way. Better to beat the drums about the issues we can beat the GOP on. Like health care, and stuff coming out about Katrina.

IMHO

[newscott]

9. Nader caused no such thing. He's been saying what he said in

2000 and 2004 for decades. Even when the Dems were in power he was saying the system is a joke.

Alito will prove that is true.

[applegrove]

11. Dems lost power. At first with lies about WMD. Then because Americans

voted a war president back in. Give to the ones what they deserve. GOP is good at politics. And just because you don't have the information you crave.. in this case witness of the strength of Dems as leader...doesn't mean you have to hand over power to the GOP.

Dumping Dems will do that.

You didn't buy into social security reform when Bush gave out no information did you?

In fact, the Dems have had a lack of information. They are just beginning to get some intel. Bush WH has been in lockdown..myths instead of fact all the time, 7 days a week.

Dems have lack of information. They are trying. You can berate them and slam them and diss them when they have neither info or power.

Or you could think with your head:

Dems are for health care, a redistribution of wealth, science, humanism, good governance.

Plugging your nose and voting for them is what is needed. Plugging your nose and your eyes - with all the "candy" dolled out by the GOP in control is your other option.

Nader caused 2000. He then took money from GOP in 2004. He doesn't care. He lives in a world where no choices have to be made. Have you not read the stuff of what comes after peak oil? Does it not make sense to encourage your kids to go into fields that are intelligence in nature rather than manufacturing..where nobody will be able to afford oil to run factories?

North America competed with NOBODY in the 20th Century. Not Europe (recovering after war), not Soviet block (command economies) and certainly not the less developed nations (extract resources by dominance). So they were richer. So there was room to share profits between unions and corporations.

Those profits are gone. There is only enough for partial sharing. And any job dependant on $200 a barrel oil in 15 years.. is no job at all. What is profitable is intellectual property, drugs, computers, nanotechnology... where some American invents something and then sends the rights abroad and makes money off that. Using NO OIL.

There is a shift going on.

Corporations are necessary. So are Co-ops. As is world trade. China, Russia, Brazil & India will make for economies 10 times the size of the current West. The satellite countries beside China & India (Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan) will all have populations & markets the size of the USA.

Markets will be all over the world. It is not wrong of Dems to want to fight for that.

Corporate transparency is a part of that fight. You either want it and some regulations ... or you do not.

Nader thinks the world is as it was. It isn't. And because he isn't looking ahead he plays in well to the hands of the GOP. Splicing Dems. Even if it is only small percentages who vote for Nader. GOP works in percentages.

With GOP ... you get torture, pre-emptive war, myths, and politics to manipulate voters into not voting Democrat (I don't think they really give a fuck if you vote for Nader or if you vote for the GOP or if you vote at all). Just so long as they maintain power. You are doing your assigned job. For them.

[Toots]

10. Nader caused Democrats to vote for Bush*'s proposals???

Remember for over a year the Democrats controlled the Senate. Everything Bush* asked for he got.. That is Nader's fault as well?

[applegrove]

12. And we know that the Bush WH lied the US into war with myths. So

the Dems made un-informed choices. They don't do that anymore. But they have no power. And they have had success: stopping social security reform, tax cuts, pointing out Katrina malfesance, proving the lies they were told into war, Bush breaking Constitution, corruption, etc.

There have been successes. IMAGINE if you will if they had POWER in this last year.. power to investigate or get WHOMEVER to testify.

They have not had that power in the last year.

Watch out when they do.

Go ahead. Vote for Nader. Then Dems will not have the power to investigate. And Bush will continue to sit on documents.

[guidod]

13. Bye bye...

...why are so many dems acting like infants, throwing tantrums, because someone took their ball away? As long as you have the attitude of running away, the more they'll win

If you want to start a new party, bye bye.

[Doctor_J]

15. And the alternative would be....

"As long as you have the attitude of running away, the more they'll win"

pray tell what else I should do, guido.

[guidod]

18. Show more patience...

...then when it gets worse, show a little more. It's tough but, who wins if our party goes in different directions?

[depakid]

17. And that just what a lot of people will do

Say goodbye.

You can especially say goodbye to good many independents and non-voters.

People don't like to hitch their wagons to cowards.That's just human nature. They'd choose corruption and confidence first.

[guidod]

19. Did you really expect that

there would be a filibuster? Filibusters only take place in Hollywood movies. It's going to get a lot more divisive before it's over, but we will get our turn. Patience, patience, patience.

[Doctor_J]

14. The confirmation will make his approval shoot up

All the treason, spying, gitmo, deaths in Iraq, deficit, unemployment will be erased by this huge victory. Adn you're right, if the Dems can't stop him when 2/3 of the people think he's destroying the country, then they never will be able to.

[depakid]

16. Nadar was right about several things

1st off, IT WAS THE DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE APPROVED OR DIDN'T BLOCK all of Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2's extremist federal court judges.

NO ONE can say he was wrong when he said that.

In my experience here, most of the Nader haters shoot from the hip and don't think with their heads. If they did, they'd realize that a good many things that Nader said were true- and the Dems have proved it repeatedly over the last 5 years. That's why they're the minority party.

Just because he was also wrong about some things too shouldn't cause a RATIONAL person to lose sight of that fact.