Do you believe they only spied on "international" calls ?

[kentuck]

This is the spin of today. Surely they knew that "international" calls do not require FISA notification? So now, they are saying all the calls were "international" - either from one end or the other? Do you really believe that? Are they lying thru their teeth? I would bet a dollar to a donut that they spied on domestic calls OR other means of communication - that were not necessarily "phone calls". Their story smells...

[xray s]

1. No

after all, these are the same people who think french fries are foreign food

[niceypoo]

25. They spied on political opponants

thats why they were afraid to go to a court

[ewoden]

2. Nope! I believe it may have started that way but

when the child gets a cookie from the jar unnoticed, soon the jar is empty.

[Yupster]

31. But in Bush's defense,

he never did very well in geography.

[fooj]

3. Hell no.

Peace.

[samdogmom]

4. Are you kidding?

Were there weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Did Iraq have anything to do with 9-11? Is the newly initiated Prescription Drug Plan working? Do we need privatized Social Security?..........

[C_U_L8R]

5. I don't believe em for a second

especially when they BREAK THE LAW to conduct their ILLEGAL wiretaps.

Throw these crooks in JAIL !!!!

[Warren Stupidity]

6. FISA warrants are required

for any monitoring of a domestic communciation, even one where the other end is outside the country. If a US person is involved a warrant is required. That is the law, both the FISA legislation and the 4th amendment are violated by not obtaining the warrant.

However, if they were monitoring actual 'suspects' either inside or outside the US, then obtaining a FISA warrant would have been just about automatic. Since they did not obtain a warrant, the reasonable conclusion is that they could not obtain a warrant, and the only way that they would not be able to qualify for a warrant is if they did not have any actual suspects. Therefore they were not monitoring suspects. They are lying.

[bluethruandthru]

7. Depends on how many "international" calls dems made!

I'll bet everyone at Kerry's 04 headquarters was communicating daily with "known Al Quaeda operatives" ! HAH!

[niyad]

8. of COURSE I do--and the sun comes up in the north, the tooth fairy is

real, and britney spears is the most important talent of our time.

[bermudat]

9. No.

This administration LIES! I always wondered why so many repugnantcans are lockstep with this president sometimes against the best interests of their own states . Have always felt 'what does the administration have on this politician that they don't put up much of a fight.' All this spying, checking on peoples' searches on the internet, tapping phone lines can turn up many peccadilloes. A politician may have a lover outside of marriage, may be a pedophile, have strange fetishes, a myriad of things he or she would not want open to the public. In return for silence, they obediently bend to the will of the 'christian' president. I grew up in Idaho when being repugnantcan meant fiscal responsibility, small government, privacy. How do repugnantcans of today reconcile with the largest budget deficit ever, owing our soul to
China, South Korea and Japan, and domestic spying. Oh excuse me, I forgot. Clinton's fault.

[spindrifter]

10. Add to the FISA spying the CIFA/TALON spying

which makes no pretense to being "international," and you have a whole lot of diversified domestic spying. The CIFA/TALON info. is published in the Jan. 30, 2006 issue of newsweek.

[truthisfreedom]

11. i believe they are spying on ALL Americans, that they are data-mining and

creating immense search engines to cross-reference everything, and i believe that the people in charge of such things are doing it solely for the purpose of dominating the world completely.

you KNOW that bushco wants to rule the world. you KNOW that they would do ANYTHING to rule the world.

[alfredo]

12. If they routed the calls through Canada, then they could say

it was an international call.

I bet they didn't go to FISA because they knew the judges wouldn't approve wiretaps on the Kerry campaign, Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, and Howard Dean.

[alcuno]

13. Receiving a call from Italy doesn't make me Italian.

I have rights. My phone does not.

[XOKCowboy]

14. It's all based on trust and faith

Sounds like a religion doesn't it? I neither trust Bush or have faith in our government to police itself. I've been fooled before and won't get fooled again.

[snowbear]

15. NO.. And the timing of the Osama tape is HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS...

Notice how George W. Booooosh starts out every one of his spiels on his "saving my ass tour" this week?

...."Osama just threatened us!!!!!"

Are we as a nation so paranoid and STUPID that we actually believe that the Osama video was really released by al-Qaeda right when they claim it was?

The timing of the video was perfect for Bush!

Instead of focusing on what the NY Times article reported, the Bush Admin was completely successful in diverting the attention again to FEAR.

According to recent polls, Americans were so frightened by the Osama threats in the video, that they say Bush was right to illegally spy.

Crazy that they just keep believing this liar. But that's what fear will do to some people...

[Blue_In_AK]

16. Of course not...

I don't believe ANYTHING they say.

[MatrixEscape]

17. What is important here ...

is not what actually happened or if it was national or international, but the perception by the public that they are correct in assuming that their communications are not private.

The way to overcome the people is to make them censor themselves and worry about who just MIGHT be listening to what they are saying at any given time.

Capish?

[TankLV]

18. I'd like to know if they spied on anybody OTHER than Democrats

and anyone opposed to his criminal policies. That would be an easier answer.

[Contrary1]

19. How can anyone buy into this BS?

MR. McCLELLAN: "If there is an al Qaeda person operating inside the United States and talking to someone outside the United States, you bet we want to know what they're saying."

Well, duh.

If they're here, and NSA is listening in, why the hell don't they just go get them? As evidenced by their previous actions, Bushco can hold them indefinitely without a trial, send them to Gitmo, or outsource them to other countries to be tortured.

How stupid does this bunch think we are? Stupid enough to allow them to stay in office, I guess.

[kentuck]

27. Excellent point !

If they are listening to al Qaeda inside the US, how many have they arrested? Or do they prefer to let them remain free?

[McCamy Taylor]

20. "Domestic" people have Article 4 rights, "International" people dont.

Olberman was making fun of the new WH spin tonight, but he would have spent his time better explaining why that the word "domestic" really refers to the rights of the person on US soil. People on foreign soil can be spied upon as much as the NSA wants--they have no COnstitutional rights. It doesnt matter where the signal comes from. It matters where the person listening to the signal happens to be. The signal is not the one with rights. People at home are the ones with rights.

[hangloose]

21. Impeach the bastard

[eve_was_framed]

22. the citizen that testified at Conyer's hearing said that neither he or any

of his group made any international calls and yet they were spied on. So my answer would be NO to this latest version of their bullshit spin!

[Hyernel]

23. No. They spied on Democrats, MoveOn, ACLU, anybody they wanted to.

Bushco is the enemy of Constitutional enemy. They will do anything to hold power.

[Neil Lisst]

24. Even their cover story regarding "domestic" v. "international" is weak.

The rationale they repeated often today is that a call which either originates or ends outside the country is international, therefore not domestic, therefore not domestic spying.

What constitutes an international call for billing purposes does not define what constitutes domestic spying. If the person being listened to is in the US, it's domestic spying.

Do I think they have spied on Americans for political reasons? Absolutely. They have shown no respect for the law, no self-restraint, and given no reason to be believed.

[JPZenger]

26. Intercepts and wiretaps

King George likes to talk about wiretaps, but it really is more of a matter of intercepts of electronic communications.

I'm reading a book written in 2005 entitled Chatter about the NSA. It says then whenever the US or its allies wanted to spy on their own citizens in their own borders, and ran into limitations of their own country's law, they had an ally's intelligence agency do the spying.

[KitSileya]

28. And even if, by some miracle, they are telling the truth,

and they only listened to international calls, that doesn't leave much hope for us foreign DUers, does it? I wonder if my phone calls have been listened to?


KitSileya
Norwegian DUer.

[AllegroRondo]

29. NOPE. Here's my understanding of it.

From an NPR program on Tuesday - they were discussing this with several lawyers.

FISA does not require a warrant for international calls. If the NSA is tapping a known terrorist in Saudi Arabia, and he happens to call into the US, a warrant is not required under FISA.
BUT- what they believe is happening, is that the person just called is now under scrutiny. If so, a warrant is now needed to watch this person's calls, as they are in the US. If they initiate a call back to Saudi, a warrant is still needed. The Bush admins position is that they dont need a warrant to monitor the US person's calls, as they are 'connected' to the known terrorist by the first call.

[SaveElmer]

30. Absolutely not...

Sorry, but this crowd in the White House has amply proven theyare a pack of liars...I wouldn't believe them if they told me the sky was blue.