It is apparent to me that the national Democratic Party

[leftofthedial]

is a dysfunctional group utterly without principles

there is no line to be crossed that would force them to act on principle

instead, they perpetually, ineffectually vector, compromise, try not to offend, play it safe, wait (forever) for the "right" future moment to act

they will never win in national American politics--even if we fix the corrupt voting system--without a strong, principled core. I'm sorry, but right now they don't have one.

[snowbear]

1. Geezus the Rethugs must love reading this place.....

Bitch, Whine, Bitch, Whine..

They've gotta be LOVING this!!!

[leftofthedial]

3. what they are doing isn't frigging working!

yet they keep doing the same crap.

It would be easy to kick the repuke's asses. The American people don't believe in the repuke agenda. king george has 36% approval (at best).

Time and time again, I hear from people that they don't like bush, they don't like the repukes in congress, but they don't believe the democrats stand for anything. If I've heard it once, I've heard it a hundred times. Now, when principle has never been clearer or easier to support, they still waffle, hem, haw, try to articulate a compromise position . . .

They've abandoned labor. They've abandoned the middle class. They've abandoned the environment. They've abandoned health care. They've abandoned education. What the hell is left? Except for their own corporate campaign donations?

It is maddening to this Dem, loyal and committed since Kennedy started campaigning.

I frankly don't give a runny shit what repukes love or don't love. We need to become Democrats again.

[400Years]

15. some people are happy to have a perpetually prostrate position

but they are really either just in on the scam or have the beat housewife syndrome.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

37. Last I heard his approval was about 43%, can't recall the source,

but unfortunately it's been going up.

[MrBenchley]

12. You got that right....

You'll notice pretty much EVERY Democrat singled out for abuse by some DUers is:
--up for re-election in 2006, and
--beating his or her prospective Republican opponents like rented mules...

Think that's a coincidence? Me neither.

[leftofthedial]

26. so you are accusing me of starting this thread to aid repukes?

really?

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. I hope they are

because I don't care anymore and they can all go to hell.

The sooner we wake up and realize that the Democratic Party is dead and we have no one representing our interests the better off we all will be.

FUCK THEM. I'M DONE.

[Common Sense Party]

39. Agreed. nt

[Flabbergasted]

2. Agreed.

And if they developed and stuck to one that appealed to those who find Bush unappealing they would have the house and senate easy this year with or without fraud.

[NJCher]

4. you should have heard Jonathan Turley

He was on Sam Seder's show tonight. I heard it on the way home from work and he said Democrats (like Hillary) only express a principle when they see it as a way to get themselves votes. It's pathetic.

Really, I've known this for a long time but it's been hard to admit. The truth of the matter is that we have no representation. Really, zip. We have to rebuild representation for our ideals from the ground up. Those 40 veterans who are running are a step in the right direction.

And as far as the republicans go, if you can believe it, they're in worse shape than we are. Those poor, deluded, stupid assholes think they have someone representing their interests. The fact of the matter is, though, that they're just brainwashed into believing that corporate interests are their interests. This is so pitiful I can't comment on it any further.




Cher

[leftofthedial]

5. I fear it's too late for a grassroots political effort

:mad:

:nuke:

[NJCher]

11. it's NEVER too late for grassroots efforts

The problem is that we're close to having to organize ourselves in cells, like an underground movement.




Cher

[leftofthedial]

33. no "like" about it

it will have to be covert

and it won't be labeled "Democratic"

and it won't involve politicians running for office

[blm]

19. It couldn't be happening with media complicity. Time for REAL WAR against

the media. EXPOSE the control of the GOP over most broadcast media.

[unkachuck]

6. yep, it makes me wonder....

....what side the leadership is on....it sure doesn't feel like it's my side....

[ruggerson]

7. Yeah, that Howard Dean

You know, the one that's the head of the party...

boy, he doesn't have a principled bone in his body.

:sarcasm:

[leftofthedial]

30. he has zero power outside the party

and grossly limited power within the party

where are the votes against Alito if Dean is such a hot-shot?

where is this principle day in and day out as the fascists are running roughshod over the country, our Constitution and the whole frigging world? With the Dems it's always business as usual. they are rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Dean slamming king george once in a blue moon on Russert's blabfest is no substitute for a coherent, principled position for the party.

[MaineDem]

8. Exactly whom do you mean by "national Democratic Party"?

The DNC? Senate and House Democrats? Howard Dean?

The Dems on the Hill march to a different drummer than the Democratic Party itself. The DNC is composed of members from all states and territories and the Democrats living abroad. They can set the tone and the message and the issues as they see fit but they actually have no control over the electeds in Congress. Try as they might. The DNC is trying to work with them to form a cohesive group but the Senators and members of Congress answer to constituents more than they do to Howard and the DNC.

I'm frustrated as hell right now with the Senate Democrats if they don't hold together and filibuster Alito. The "national Democratic Party" can urge them all it wants but those Senators are going to do what they feel they must when it comes to that vote.

[leftofthedial]

32. damn near everyone except Kucinich, Conyers, Boxer and McKinney

with the occasional token support of Kennedy or Feingold

(I know I'm leaving out a small handful of others, but you get the idea)

95% of the Dems in Congress have no discernible ideological commitment to anything.

[JNelson6563]

9. Only as strong as our local

Wanna identify some of the serious problems in our party? (I'll just run withthe assumption you're a Dem) Look at the local situations.

As a Dsitrict chair with 14 counties I have been horrified to see howmany of these counties have terrible leadership. No activity for party growth and the local org. can be really small and crappy but they cling to it as a dictator might cling to power

If more people who actually care about the cause (as opposed to personal glory) were to step up and assume leadership roles in their communities, I guarantee things would improve enormously for our party.

I'd also like to say that one of the MO's of these really crappy leaders is to sit back and piss and moan that the state party or the DNC just doesn't do enough for them (i.e. give them lots of money). In my own position on the totem pole I can tell you I don't channel resources into the counties who won't lift a finger to improve things but I will lend support to those who actually try. I suspect leadership at state and federal level sees it that way too.

Julie

[AtomicKitten]

10. The Dems just need a strong, decent leader -- like Al Gore NT

[ChipsAhoy]

18. A strong leader, yes - but Gore, no.

I don't think Gore can pull it off. We need some fresh, new blood. I wish we could reincarnate JFK.

[AtomicKitten]

20. Or Robert Kennedy .... but don't sell Gore short.

He may be the catalyst to light a fire under the party. He's breathing fire.

I love him. Really.

[ChipsAhoy]

21. I'm afraid he can't get the votes.

I thought for SURE Gore and Kerry could win. I'm scared to put either of them back on the ballot. Just scared.

It would be great if we could find someone who had both of their qualities. We still hve time!!!

:kick:

[AtomicKitten]

22. ahemmmm .... Gore did win, by over 500,000 votes.

The only thing Bush won in 2000 was a 5:4 Supreme Court decision.

But I digress.

Seriously, if the Dems can manage to get the electronic voting machine fraud under control, and with Al Gore ON FIRE like he is now, I saw bar the doors Katie cuz it's GO TIME.

(sorry, too much caffeine this A.M.)

We shall see.

[ChipsAhoy]

25. I'll rephrase

We need someone who will make it to the Oval Office, whatever it takes. I think we need someone who will win by a large margin. I'm scared to roll the dice on Gore even if WE love him. (He is still being made fun of for not winning his home state.)

No prob about the caffeine. I understand. ;)

[NoPasaran]

31. No better way to get fresh blood

Than by revivifying the dead! :shrug:

[leftofthedial]

34. whoever the front man

they need an organization

and a communications machine that puts everyone on the same page daily, or even hourly, if needed, to counter the repuke-corporate ownership of the media.

but they won't do that until they once again start representing people instead of money.

[MrBenchley]

13. Don't let the door hit you in the ass....

One wonders at first why someone who hates the Democrats so would clog up a Democratic message board with twaddle like this...and then the reason becomes obvious.

[leftofthedial]

27. something is hitting someone in the ass even as we speak

:kick:

slanderer

"Dems-love 'em or leave 'em" is the philosophy of a fascist.

Defending an ineffectual opposition is a tactic of the party in power.

:puke:

[MrBenchley]

40. I suspect for the loony left, it's their collective heads....

Geeze, if you want to go, go. But I'm getting tired of people who have nothing to say but how much they hate Democrats. Especially people whose ideal candidates are Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, or Cynthia McKinney who want to lecture others about how to reach the average voter.

And I doubt it's a coinicidence that the Democrats singled out for the daily two minute hate by the "progressive purists" here are almost always:
--up for re-election in 2006, and
--beating his or her prospective Republican opponents like rented mules.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[applegrove]

16. The election is in 2006. Wait a bit. See what they have planned.

[AtomicKitten]

17. I think Dr. Dean is whipping it into shape.

He's really doing a brilliant job as DNC chair.

I think assigning an epithet for the Democratic Party is premature.

I trust Dean to do his job.

[leftofthedial]

28. do you have an example of something that causes you to feel this way?

I mean other than simple trust of Dean.

[AtomicKitten]

35. Dean is SPEAKING THE TRUTH in spite of the BS he gets

from the Rs and even from the Dems, providing an example of what it looks like to stand your ground with dignity and integrity. He is raising money in the states as well as nationally. He has talked about electronic voting machine fraud, the fact that the Rs don't want to talk about it, and advised that people should gather signatures for ballot measures in each state INSISTING on verified paper trails; that is happening in many states.

For the record, I didn't support Dean in the primary, I supported Wes Clark. However, I never had any doubt that Dean was the man for the job as DNC chair.

[leftofthedial]

36. I like Dean (and Clark)

I just wish the Dems would act like a unified party and that that unification was based on clearly articulated principles.

[zanne]

24. And when people notice their lives being affected....

If the Dems don't fight to block Alito and the "new" Supreme Court starts to dismantle American Democracy, it will be too late to do anything about it. Then we can judge who thought staging a filibuster was "too hard".

[leftofthedial]

29. and the corporate media spinmeisters will use Dem inaction as a bludgeon

AGAINST Dems who advocate change down the road

just the way they have used the Iraq war powers vote as a bludgeon against any Dems who speak out against the war

[Dr Fate]

38. Not all of them. Kerry, Gore and Dean kick ass. Boxer & Conyers too...

...and several others...

I'm with ya on the dead weight though.