Bin Laden tapes - Works of Fiction

[Voice1]

I've long suspected that Bin Laden has been dead for some time, and i've also doubted the authenticity of a couple of the tapes supposedly of the so called "Al Qaeda mastermind" (For the ignoramouses who actually believe the rubbish that Bin Laden is at the head of this huge structure try reading this

An excerpt from that Times article:

Krongard, 68, said he viewed Bin Laden “not as a chief executive but more like a venture capitalist”.

He added: “Let’s say you and I want to blow up Trafalgar Square. So we go to Bin Laden. And he’ll say, ‘Well, here’s some money and some passports and if you need weapons, see this guy’.

“I don’t see him keeping his fingers on everything because the lines of communications are just too difficult.”

Aljazeera.com now has this very interesting article, which is a worthwhile read:

Even after the case about the authenticity of such tapes has been made, some may still wonder if it really matters whether they are real or not. It most certainly does. While the audiotapes purportedly sent out by BIN LADEN were seldom at the forefront of the debate to launch WAR, they were key factors in creating a climate of fear in which pro-war rhetoric grew. And it is precisely for this reason that these tapes require the same level of analysis as any other piece of evidence used to convince the world about the war.

Exactly, and the above is of major importance. Let's have more scientific and independent analysis of these tapes. The only such analysis so far, as reported in that article was conducted by Swedish scientists on one tape, and they believed it was fake.

The public are fed up of the spoon fed propaganda, and deserve the truth.

See all recent "A Logical Voice" posts

[madame defarge]

1. A couple of things...

Someone else here at DU (I think) posted a link to another site that had lots of details supporting the theory that the tapes are fake. Does anyone remember that or have it bookmarked?

Also, the link to the timesonline you posted doesn't work. Do you have another link for that?

Thanks.

[Voice1]

3. There are certainly plenty of links

Here's the link to the Times article, hopefully this works better:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1431539,00.html

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[JDPriestly]

2. The excerpts from the apes that I have read are phony

The cultural perspective of the person speaking in the excerpts from the tapes that I have is probably not a fanatical Muslim. The underlying approach of the speaker is to appeal to our rational thinking. Fanatical Muslims believe that God is almighty and determines everything. I have had conversations with fanatical Muslims. They go on and on about the attributes of God and attempt to give the impression that they are constantly conversing with God. The first Bin Laden tape had a little of that flavor. But the excerpts I have read from the recent tapes do not reflect the thoughts and feelings of a devout Muslim. That is why I think they are phony. They are either prepared by Rove, et al. or, if they are sponsored by Al Qaeda, by some westerner or some follower of Al Qaeda who was educated in the West and who really does not believe in the whole fanatical Muslim thing. They are phony, phony, phony.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. From a practical point of view, I found it unlikely that they could

have completed an analysis SO quickly. It was just a couple hours, wasn't

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Yep

It was four hours when in the past it took a lot longer than that. I believe a couple of weeks.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

5. Just one little question.

Have you listened to the tape in the original language?
Did you read any of the statements in the oringinal lamguage?

Or have you only read the poorly translated spin?

[JDPriestly]

7. I only read the translation, however, it is not the language so

much as the world view, the perspective, the values underlying not the words, but the ideas expressed that cause me to think that the tapes are not authentic.

[Voice1]

6. Well, I found 2 points interesting from 1 tape

From a transcript dated 13th December 2001:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/tape.transcript/

Firstly, this statement by the supposed Bin Laden:

UBL: We were at (...inaudible...) when the event took place. We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on. It was 5:30 p.m. our time. I was sitting with Dr. Ahmad Abu-al-((Khair)). Immediately, we heard the news that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. We turned the radio station to the news from Washington. The news continued and no mention of the attack until the end. At the end of the newscast, they reported that a plane just hit the World Trade Center.

IF that was Bin Laden in the tape then he was not "confessing" to being in charge of the operation at all, he only found out "since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day". I doubt you could plan and carry out a terrorist attack on such a scale in 1 week, no matter how much of a "mastermind" people claim you to be.

On the 28th September 2001 the following appeared in a Pakistani newspaper. Bin Laden actually denies any involvement in the events of "911":
http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam.

Now, if you were some so called "terrorist mastermind" wouldn't you want to brag about what you'd done? Even in the so called "confession tape" there was no gloating over being responsible for the act.

The second linked to article above which i've quoted has a very powerful message, but it was the first message apparently from Bin Laden to someone from the outside world as far as I can tell from reading many reports.

Why on earth would someone like Bin Laden change what people would consider to be the powerful message quoted above, to a less tolerant message towards innocents displayed in the later "Bin Laden" videos? Presumably he isn't stupid?

[FreedomAngel82]

12. Right

If you go to CNN's site and in the archives search for BinLadin 9/11 interview there is one where he does deny doing 9/11 which is very strange and unusual for BinLadin cause he always takes credit for something.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. I also read

that the transcript was originally written in English and translated to Arabic. How do they tell? :shrug: And the person says "God" instead of "Allah" and I believe BinLadin has always said "Allah".

[Ani Yun Wiya]

13. How phony is this?

Breaking : new video message from Dr Ayman Al Zawahri

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AND HERE IS THE LAST MESSAGE OF BIN LADIN


In the name of Allah the most gracious the most beneficent.



Peace be upon those who followed the guidance



My message to you about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and the way to end it; I was not intending the to speak about this subject, because for us it's obvious; blood for blood, and all grace be to Allah our situation is from better to best while your situation is the opposite.





What motivated me to speak out is the repeated fallacies made up by your
president Bush commentating on the polls’ results that showed the great majority amongst you desiring a pull out of the American troops from Iraq. However, he (Bush) objected to this aspiration and alleged that pulling out the troops would give a wrong message to the opponent and that it's better to fight them on their land instead of them fighting us on our land.





In my hands the response to these great fallacies; I say that the war in Iraq is boiling up without end, and the operations in Afghanistan in continuous rise to our side, all grace be to Allah. And the Pentagon's numbers declare the rise of death and injuries toll, needless to mention the grave material loss and the mental defeat of the soldiers and the mounting of suicides among them. You can imagine the psychological defeat of the soldiers picking up the remains of their comrades after stepping into a mine, and after such a situation the soldier becomes between two fires, either refuses to go out of his barricade and getting punished by Vietnam's butcher, or accepting to go out turning into a meal for the mines’ monster. The soldier is between two choices the best of them is bitter making him under extreme psychological pressure, fear, humiliation, and oppression. While his people turn their faces away from him.
Therefore, this soldier finds no other solution except committing suicide and that is what you hear about him and about his suicide; a message to you written by his soul, blood, fear, regret, and pain so you would save what you can save from this hellfire, and the solution is in your hands if the matter concerns you.





However, the news about our brothers the Mujahedeen is quiet different from what the pentagon publishes. What is published in the media is not the whole truth or the reality on the ground. What makes the doubts greater is the information leaked out about the intentions of the white house administration in targeting media stations that are trying to publish some of the truth, and it's been surfaced lately with documentations how the world's freedom butcher had intended to bomb the offices of Aljazeera in Qatar after bombing its offices in Afghanistan and Baghdad, although with all its setbacks.





On the other hand, Jihad is continuing, all grace be to Allah, despite all the atrocities committed by the American army and its agents, to a point where there is no differentiation between its crimes and those of Saddam's. Its crimes reached raping women, and abducting them as hostages instead of their husbands.



As for torturing men, it reached a point where they are using chemical acids, using drills to drill their joints, and setting people on their heads till they die. Read if you wish the human watch reports concerning the grave tortures in Abu Ghraib, Guntanamo, and Baghram.





Let me say, despite all the sadistic means used, they did not break up the
sharp blade of the resistance or the Mujahedeen, all grace be to Allah. Instead the resistance is rising stronger. All the reports show that the defeat and grave failure for the cursed quadruples; Bush, Cheney, Ramsfield, and Wolfowits; the publishing of this defeat is only a matter of time, associated only with the awareness of the American people about the magnitude of this misery. And the wise among you knows that Bush does not have a plan to reach his alleged victory in Iraq. If you would compare the small number of deaths when Bush announced his fake declaration on top of the airplanes’ carrier; the termination of the grand operations, if you would compare that with the tenth of times numbers of deaths and injuries with the small operations, you would know the fact about what I say and that Bush and his administration do not have the desire nor the intention to pull out of Iraq, all that is due to their own suspicious agenda.



This takes me back to the original subject, I say that the polls’ results are accepted by the wise amongst you, and that Bush's refute is based on falsehoods and the facts are the witness that the war against America and its allies is not anymore limited to Iraq as he claims, instead Iraq became a point of attraction and rehabilitation of power from one side, and from the other side the Mujahedeen were able , all grace be to Allah, to infringe all the security means taken by the oppressing allied governments one time after another. The proof for that is what you have witnessed from the explosions inside the most important capitals of the European states allied with the atrocities.



As for the delay in similar operations in America, is not because the incapability to pierce your security measures, the operations are under preparation and you will see them in your own homeland as soon as they are ready, Allah is willing.





Based on the above, there appear Bush's falsehoods. However, the one thing that he avoided, and it's the core of the polls; it's better not to fight Muslims on their lands, or them fighting us on our land.



We do not mind to answer you for a long truce with fair conditions, we commit ourselves to it, since we are a nation that forbids betrayals and lies. Let both sides live in peace and feel safe. Let us rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan that were destroyed by the war. There is no shame in solutions, except that it will stop the flow of hundreds of billions to the ones in command and the war lords in America, those who helped Bush in his election with billions of dollars. From here we can understand Bush and his gang's persistence in a continuous war.



Therefore, if you agree on the truce and living in peace, you will find us agreeing and responding with the same. However, if Bush refuses and continues in his lies and oppression, it's beneficial to read the introduction of a book the **** State: if I was a president I will stop the operations against the United States by; first, I will apologize to every widow, orphan, and all those who were tortured, and I will then announce that the American intervention had ended for ever.





Finally, I tell you that the victory in this war is either ours or yours. If it's the premier, you will come out disgraced for ever, and it's in this way the circumstances are flowing all grace be to Allah. And if it was the latter, read the history and you will know that we are a nation that does not sleep on defeat, and that we will seek revenge for ever, and that the days and nights will not pass until we revenge, like we did in September 11, Allah is willing. And you will continue to live in disgrace and fear and in the end you will be defeated.



As for us we have nothing to loose, who swims in the ocean does not fear the rain. You have occupied our land, you have attacked our honor and dignity, you have spilled our blood, you have stolen our wealth, you have destroyed our homes, and you have smashed our security. We will make you feel the same.



You have tried to prevent us from living with dignity, but you won't be able to prevent us from dying with dignity. Sitting down and leaving Jihad behind in our religion is a great sin that we fear. And dying under the swords’ shades is the best that we wish for. Do not be deceived with your power and your armaments, it can only make you win some battles but you will loose the war. Patience and standing fast is better than what you have, and it's the ends what you should be watching for.



We were patient fighting the Soviet Union with small humble arms for ten years, we depleted their economy till they vanished, all grace be to Allah. You should take a lesson from that, we will be patient fighting you, Allah's willing, till either one of us dies. We will never run away from fighting you until the end.





I swore that I will not die except free….despite the bitter taste of death



Peace be upon those who followed the guidance

[LibertyorDeath]

8. Struggling to get Attention on the Fake Osama Audio...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=187220&mesg_id=187220