White Rose Funding Drive in progress.

[benburch]

http://www.whiterosesociety.org

Friends,

Once again it is time to appeal to you for funds to keep White Rose going in the coming quarter.

As you know, White Rose seeks out and showcases talented Liberal and Progressive talk radio shows that deserve a wider audience. In this we have been quite successful! Two of our shows, The Randi Rhodes Show and The Mike Malloy Show were picked up by Air America in 2004, and we have high hopes of repeating that sort of success with our other efforts.

In the last quarter, (actually four months since we made the money stretch longer than a quarter) we added "Head On with Bob Kincaid", "Counterpoint with Scott Harris", "Fourth Estate Radio", and "All Things Reconsidered with Bruce Burch", and are working on getting several other great shows added to the site.

We are extracting Mike Malloy's nightly readings of George Orwell's "1984", and will eventually edit these into talking book form. The Work In Progress can be found here; http://server4.WhiteRoseSociety.org/content/malloy/1984 and we will be adding the new segments usually within a day of the show in which they air.

So, if you like White Rose, and want to help us do what we do, please visit our Donations page at http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/Donate.html

Thank you so much for your support and patronage now and in the past!

-Ben Burch
White Rose Society Webmaster

P.S. Please keep this thread kicked so it does not sink under the weight of today's political turmoil. Thanks!

Required disclaimer: The administrators of Democratic Underground have given permission for one discussion thread on this topic. The administrators of Democratic Underground make no claims regarding the legitimacy or illegitimacy of this fundraising effort.

Mods, please check your Alerts for copy of Skinner's permission email.

[I Have A Dream]

1. Recommended & kicked.

:kick:

[GrpCaptMandrake]

2. K&R Thanks, Ben!

for all you do!

Can you guys imagine how filthy rich Ben would be if only he'd do what he does for the Dark Side? Can you imagine how the Freepers would pony up their nickels and dimes and dollars to make sure Hate Radio continues to flood America?

Here's the easy math: if 1000 liberals, that is, 1000 Americans who love their Constitution, pony up ten bucks a month, Ben would never have to run another solicitation. And Progressive talk would have a home that would never be under threat and be able to grow to be a profound force for good in our reinvention of the media in America.

Amazingly simple, isn't it?

The thing is, Ben can't wait for donor #99. It starts with donor #1.

Again, Ben: you are due the thanks of all those who cherish free speech.

[benburch]

13. Thanks for the very kind words, Bob. nt

[GrpCaptMandrake]

3. Self-delete Posting hiccup

[ninkasi]

4. Kick

For a worthy cause...:kick:

[DrDebug]

5. K&R

[I Have A Dream]

6. Must. keep. kicked.

:kick:

[I Have A Dream]

7. Only 1 more recommendation needed for Greatest Page!!! n/t

[ralps]

8. Kick

[madfloridian]

9. Kick for how I listen to Thom Hartmann...thanks, Ben.

It is a good clear stream, best of the choices at Thom's site.

[benburch]

10. Thanks!

I try hard. And my plans are to stream more shows in coming months.

[EFerrari]

11. Kick

[benburch]

12. Thanks!

Reminder to ask your friend, Will about archiving his show. :-)

[I Have A Dream]

14. Kick for afternoon crowd.

:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

15. Oh, here's a new thread...

K & R

[Metta]

16. Kicked & recommended.

:kick:

[benburch]

17. Thanks! nt

[samhsarah]

18. Done. Kicked. Recommended.

[tavalon]

19. I've got to head to bed now (just got home from work)

but will contribute when I get up. Your service to our community is invaluable.

[benburch]

20. Thanks so much! nt

[benburch]

51. delete.

[benburch]

21. Progress Report!

$655 of $10,000 raised so far!

Thanks everybody!

[benburch]

22. $785 of $10,000 now!

Thanks!

[benburch]

23. $945 of $1000 now!

Almost 10% there! Thanks!

[benburch]

24. $1140 of $10,000 now!

Thanks so much, everybody, we are over 10% of the way there!

[benburch]

25. $1255 of $10,000 nt

[benburch]

26. $1508.19 of $10,000!

Thanks everybody!

[benburch]

27. $1996.03 ot $10,000!

Thank you so much!

[benburch]

28. $2401.03 of $10,000 now!

Wow! Everybody, I really appreciate this! It took two weeks last time out to get to this mark.

[benburch]

29. $2476.03 of $10,000! nt

[benburch]

31. $2846.34 of $10,000!

Thanks everybody!

[benburch]

35. $2976.34 of $10,000!

Thank you, everybody.

[benburch]

48. $3187.94 of $10,000 now!

You folks rock.

[benburch]

50. $3496.94 of $10,000 now! nt

[benburch]

52. $3644.01 of $10,000! nt

[benburch]

54. $3823.01 of $10,000 nt

[benburch]

61. $3998 of $10,000! nt

[benburch]

65. $5115 of $10,000! nt

[benburch]

71. $5766 of $10,000 now!

Thanks so much!

[benburch]

74. $5976 of $10,000!

[benburch]

30. In response to an emailed question...

Yes, my "quarters" tend to run about four months! I make the money stretch as far as I can before I come back to ask for more.

[calimary]

32. Kick - for the late night crew...

Cheers!

[benburch]

36. Thanks! nt

[calimary]

42. No problem! Seems like a worthy cause to me.

I'm just sorry I can't send actual money - I'm sorely tapped out these days. At least I can keep it up top where more people can see it.

[benburch]

46. Many people are tapped out now.

I have friends in some desperate straits, but am only barely keeping afloat here and cannot help them much. Still, I give them more than I can afford on the theory that I can keep the house at 62 degrees and eat more rice to help them keep a roof over their heads.

So don't feel bad if you are broke, you have a LOT of company.

[I Have A Dream]

47. Kick.

:kick:

[rememberauschwitz]

33. The White Rose Society means a lot to me

I mean the real White Rose Society... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/rose.html

I'm a newbie, and I hesitate to post, but when I saw the title of this thread I was excited--excited because I thought someone was taking up a collection to celebrate the heroism of Hans and Sophie Scholl and their friends......

Mr. Burch, I like what your website is doing substantively--the RW noise machine is so loud, that the few progressive voices need sites like yours to help get information out to a people awash in corporate spin.

But...

I'm sorry, I find your appropriation of the White Rose Society's name, image, and memory very upsetting.

My father was orphaned by the Nazis--his father murdered on Kristalnacht, his mother later. He was lucky. He was adopted by Americans, who took him to this country, where he was naturalized.

I bring this up because by identifying your site with the White Rose Society, you are asserting that America is the equivalent of Nazi Germany, that Bush is the equivalent of Hitler, that the Republican Party is the equivalent of the Nazi Party, and that Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, and, yes, YOU are the equivalent of Hans and Sophie Scholl.

I'm sorry, but that's just not right.

America has many problems, Bush is a conniving idiot, and the repubs are greedy corporate whores, but they are not the equivalent of Nazi Germany, Hitler, and the NSDAP. Don't take my word for it--ask my father, or anyone else who actually suffered under the Nazis.

The Nazi comparisons trivialize the Shoah--if our children are told that Republicans = Nazis, then they will assume Nazis = Republicans. Then, when they've lived under 12 years of Republican administrations, they'll think, "gee, that wasn't so bad....I wonder what those Jews were complaining about. Must have been there own fault."

I'm used to the misuse of Nazi comparisons. I am not used to misuse of White Rose Society comparisons.

I'm sorry, the work that you and the commentators you promote is very important, but to appropriate the mantle of true martyrs who risked death every day, until they were in fact executed--to assert that somehow that ANYONE in America is today experiencing even 1/10th of the sheer horror Hans and Sophie Scholl and their comrades experienced-- is simply offensive.

Mr. Burch: I mean no personal disrespect--I do admire your work. I know that you meant no disrespect to the victims of the Shoah or to the members of the White Rose Society. I apologize if I have caused offense. But I respectfully must say that your appropriation of the memory of the Society is, in my opinion, disrespectful, and deeply disturbing to me and, I imagine, others who understand the difference between the Third Reich and the United States, and the difference between good citizens, such as yourself, exercising their First Amendment rights, and the members of the original White Rose Society, who had those rights, and their very lives, violently taken from them.

[benburch]

34. Relatives of the Scholls have lent me encouragement.

I do strongly believe that this regime we have in this country now has its strongest parallels in the Fascism of WW-II. Probably, they are closer at this time to Mussolini than to Hitler, as Mussolini's atrocities in Ethiopia are much closer to the sort that we are conducting today in Iraq. I believe the George Bush and his whole family have never forgotten their strong ties to and support of the American Nazi Party and the German Nazi Party both before and during WW-II. (Did you know that they helped build the Death Camps?) I believe that the modern Republican Party closely resembles the German Nazi Party, and has many of its attitudes; Racial Purity, Anti-Semitism, Anti-Democractism, and simple thuggery.

In short, even if you are who you say you are, which I tend to doubt, I believe you are nearly 100% wrong, and I will continue to keep the White Rose name alive, and to fight fascism with information, which was the mission of the original White Rose, until they eventually silence me or we win this battle.

[benburch]

40. More on the Death Camp connections of Bush's Family here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x315277

[rememberauschwitz]

56. I certainly have no patience

for those who enabled the Nazis, especially Prescott Bush (or Joe "we hate Jews in my club too" Kennedy, for that matter).

[rememberauschwitz]

57. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs

I am sure you hold them sincerely. As I tried to make clear, I in no way intend to impugn your motives.

I just think that it trivializes real fascism, real genocide, and, forgive me, real heroism, to equate our current situation with Nazi Germany or ourselves with those who paid with their lives to resist the Nazis.

You don't know me, so I won't take offense at your "doubt" at who I say I am. I do find it annoying. It seems that whenever someone says something that makes another uncomfortable at DU, more often then not the response challenges the bona fides of the speaker--not the most attractive characteristic of this community. (I could send you a scan of my father's German ID card, complete with swastikas and a big, red, gothic "J" for "Juden" in the upper right-hand corner, but I won't. Once you put something like that out into cyberspace, you never know who might exploit if for their own purposes.)

[GrpCaptMandrake]

37. I admire your screen name

We should all remember Auschwitz . . . and Dachau . . . and Bergen-Belzen . . . and Sobibor. And we should always remember the horrors brought on by the march of Fascsim. I submit that we would all do well not only to remember it, but to vow to ourselves and to each other "Never again," and to fight it wherever it shows its filthy, blood-sodden head.

And we would be well advised to remember that the Bush Family made some of its bones in the bones of dead Jews, Gypsies, Dissidents and Gays in financing the construction of those death camps. As we speak, Halliburton has been given a no-bid contract by the Bushes to build "relocation" centers, concentration camps, as it were, within the confines of the United States.

The House of Representatives version of the Patriot Act creates a Uniformed Secret Service Police force with broad powers of warrantless arrest. Care to tell me again how the Bush Administration bears no relation or resemblance to post-Weimar Germany?

Night before last, a young skinhead attacked gay people with a hatchet inside a gay bar.

Three nights ago, a woman with nothing more than a series of numbers on a t-shirt was literally dragged out of Bush's State of the Union Speech.

The Religion Industry enablers of George Bush work tirelessly to create a ghettoized, second class of citizens based solely upon the means by which they have sexual relations.

That same Religion Industry prays for the return of "Christ" so that they can put Jews to the sword.

That same Religion Industry wants to force women to bear children for the "good" of the nation.

As we dialogue, Arabs and Muslims are learning a new synonym in Arabic for Shoah in the deliberate murders in Iraq.

The threat to the American Republic at this date is no less than the threat to Germany in 1933. One learned man noted that "Fascism will come to America wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." So true, eh?

I would remind you that an insult is like a drink. It affects one only if taken. The fact that you take humbrage at Ben's homage to Hans and Sophie is indicative of the fact that you apparently have a hard time seeing the forest because of all those doggoned trees.

No one has appropriated anything in this instance. Long before the Scholls began their fight, the White Rose was a symbol of resistance in England. Ben's usage is purely and honorably an homage to the courage of the Scholls; a dedication to carry on the fight they started. More people learn about the heroism of the Scholls via Ben's site and efforts than from any other single website.

It is well that they should do so, for contrary to your passive complaint, fascism, virulent, hateful and deadly, is afoot in the United States. Your blindness to it does not constitute a negation of proof.

Let me close with this:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

I suggest you spend your energies supporting Ben's efforts to stop that from happening again, instead of complaining about your perceptions.

[rememberauschwitz]

58. Thank you for your suggestion.

I could respond with the fable of the boy who cried wolf, but I won't. The tone of your post suggests that your beliefs are deeply and sincerely felt. I respect that.

We just perceive things differently. Apart from my "perceptions," I also think that telling Joe Sixpack -- what H.L. Mencken called "boobus americanus" -- that his country is no better than Nazi Germany actually HELPS the Neocon cabal in that it enables them to dismiss critics by invoking Godwin's rule, rather than by actually responding to substantive criticism.

When the government starts rounding citizens up and imprisoning them for their beliefs, race, color, or political persuasion, I'll join you in equating the US with Nazi Germany. Until then, I am going to refrain from overheated comparisons that tend to distract attention from the very real problems we do face.

[benburch]

60. We already are rounding up citizens and imprisoning them.

Without writ of habeas corpus I might add.

Does "Jose Pedilla" ring a bell?

And they refuse to tell us if there are others.

And we have grabbed Americans and sent them abroad for torture without any due process whatsoever just on the basis of their ethnic heritage.

Or does the number of people so treated enter into your equation? Is it OK to do that to a few dozen citizens, but not OK to do that to a few million? Is there a level at which this is not hideous?

And do you factor in all the black men on death row who are innocent and were only convicted of being black? Or don't they matter to you because they are not Jewish?

Nope, we're all Good Germans here unless we resist. And that includes you.

[rememberauschwitz]

62. "Or don't they matter to you because they are not Jewish."

Now you're becoming offensive.

I have bent over backwards to be polite and respectful.

You, on the other hand, are accusing me of bigotry, with no basis, in order to score rhetorical points. That is disappointing.

It is my understanding that Padilla is accused of a serious conspiracy to do harm to America. The administration NEVER should have kept him, a citizen, out of the courts. However, it is my understanding that he now HAS had recourse to Article III courts (including the SCOTUS, IIRC).

I was unaware that the administration has "grabbed Americans and sent them abroad for torture without any due process whatsoever just on the basis of their ethnic heritage." I am puzzled that I have not heard of this, since I have been following these issues fairly closely. I would like to learn more. Please provide a link.

The percentage of black men on death row is appalling for a number of reasons. However, the vast majority of death row inmates were put there by STATE COURTS, not the federal government. And, the vast majority of them were convicted and sentenced before the 2000 selection. So, I don't see how their presence makes this administration a "Nazi" administration any more than the previous one. It is clear you brought this up just as a setup to your accusation of bigotry.

DUers will have to decide for themselve whether your baseless suggestion that I discount black lives because I am Jewish is consistent, or inconsistent, with your attempted self-identification with the White Rose Society legacy and the heroism of Hans and Sophie Scholl.

[benburch]

64. No, you have done your best to be offensive.

And clearly imprisoning an American Citizen without writ of habeas corpus is OK with you; You just said so.

And though state courts convict people, federal courts support those convictions in the appeals process, so your point is moot. We kill people just because they are black, and that is not seen by you as fascist? Nice.

[benburch]

67. Heh... Thought so... You were a freeper, weren't you, son?

Because I see now that you have been banished.

[I Have A Dream]

38. Hi, rememberauschwitz. I don't know a great deal about...

this issue. However, part of the problem with what happened in Germany during WWII is that people didn't do enough to stop things from getting to the point that they did. The White Rose Society was an exception. They did everything that they could to fight against the Nazis.

Like the original White Rose Society, Ben Burch's organization is doing everything that it can to make sure that this doesn't happen again. Sometimes it takes using a name that reminds us of what could ultimately happen if action's not taken.

My husband is Jewish, and his family was affected by the actions of the Nazis, so I'm very concerned about things that disrespect Jewish people (even though I'm not Jewish). I truly believe that this is not the case with Ben's use of this name.

(I wonder how far the Bush Administration would go if nobody fought against them. We don't know, but we're not taking any chances.)

By the way, welcome to DU!

[EFerrari]

39. I think Ben's use of WRS is a wonderful and fitting memorial.

And that reminds me, I haven't sent in my donation for Feb.

:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

41. As a member of the White Rose Society I am offened by your assertions.

My entire city and its people have been victimised by the Bushler regime. Please do not trivialize the mass murder committed by this Fourth Reich, and do not underestimate them. Just because you personally did not lose family and friends does NOT mean it did not happen. It just means you are safe and insulated from harm... so far.

Ignore reality at your own peril. - this is advice from someone who has suffered at the hands of Nazis. Hören Sie? Oder pfeifen Sie, wie Sie hinter die Galgen gehen, wie so viele in Dachau taten?

[calimary]

43. HEY! Welcome to DU!

Your first post - cool!

Glad you're here!

We need you to help us...

Visualize IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!
And then go DO something about it...

(...like maybe call your congresscritters and DEMAND that they sign on with HR635 - to investigate IMPEACHMENT prospects)

[ralps]

45. I think benburch & his whiterosesociety are doing a wonderful job. We

will need people like him if our country and our democracy is to survive the Bush administration. :hi:

[lala_rawraw]

53. I have to disagree

I think it is important to point out that the Final Solution was at the tale end of Nazi reign in Germany, not the entire history of the regime. Nazi Germany did not start with the "Final Solution" it simply ended with it. Prior to that horrific plan, there was a period of time, specifically in the early 1930s that actually can quite closely be compared to what is going on now in the US. In Nazi Germany after the Reichstag fire, the targets were “terrorists” not any religious organization or group. Communists were the first to be identified as the enemy of the state. The other issue or really two faces of the same issue has to do with who funded the Nazi regime and who profited from them. At the center of the Nazi regime's rise to power are the American bankers and war profiteers and in both areas can be found something more than a startling comparison to the current administration. What can be found is a direct link to this administration from genealogical connection in the form of Grandpa Bush and Grandpa Walker both as well as their friends and colleagues. Consider what that means, really, that a family that profited from and earned the majority of its fortune from Nazi concentration camps is now in power and ironically, earning disturbing comparisons with the Nazi regime. For those who asked us “never to forget,” the idea that we are building concentration camps and using the same tactics as the Nazi regime proves that we have forgotten quite quickly. We were told to remember for a reason and that reason has to do with preventing a repeat of such a horror from happening.

Like you, I have family members who survived the Holocaust and I can tell you that what is happening is not lost on them, even though they do not even know the history of the Bush/Walker family. I think that Ben has every right to use the terminology for the purposes that he uses it for: to collect and archive voices that speak out against the crimes and actions of the Bush regime. I think Ben, in fact, uses his outlet more to the purpose than those who generally seek to own the history of that horrible event but avoid any responsibility required in preventing another such event from occurring.

Glad we can agree to disagree.

[EFerrari]

44. Back up there

:kick:

[I Have A Dream]

49. Kick

:kick:

[I Have A Dream]

59. Kick again n/t

[coffeenap]

55. kick

[Catherine Vincent]

63. Kick!

For Ben and White Rose Society.

[EFerrari]

66. kick

[LincolnMcGrath]

68. Ben how do I post the banner as a clickable link?

Like it is in your OP.

[benburch]

69. Like this!

[center][link:whiterosesociety.org|http://www.whiterosesociety.org/images/whiterose_banner1.png][/center]

[LincolnMcGrath]

70. Thank You

Check the new Malloy Thread format tomorrow night

[benburch]

72. Thought it might interest people to know...

That we have just bought another 500 GB of storage using some of the proceeds of this funding drive!

[I Have A Dream]

73. That's great news! n/t