Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Is you gas utility charging you for your gas and for someone else's too?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 01:36 PM
Original message
Is you gas utility charging you for your gas and for someone else's too?
Sorry, I tried to find an electronic form of this article, which appeared today in the "Business Section" of the Kansas City Star, but either there won’t be one or it hasn’t been posted on the internet yet.

So not only are Kansas gas users going to be paying more for inflated gas prices, but now we’ll be expected to pay for the ones who don’t (or can't).

From Kansas City Star, January 27, 2006, Business (Section C, page 1)

Cost-of-gas charge gets expanded role

By STEVE EVERLY
The Kansas City Star

Gas utility customers in Kansas will automatically pay the uncollected gas costs owed by other utility customers in a program quietly approved by state regulators last summer.

The measure, which is being pushed by utilities in other states including Missouri, expands the role of the cost-or-gas rider or purchased gas adjustment, which is already on gas bills and covers wholesale gas costs and some other related expenses such as storage fees. The charge has traditionally been paid by the customer using the fuel.

But Kansas, one of only a handful of states that so far have made the move, is expanding the charge’s role to include collecting unpaid gas costs owed by other customers. Those gas costs account for about 70 percent of an annual gas bill.

The program became effective last fall and is being phased in: it is eventually expected to add millions to gas utility bills in the state. The utilities estimated, using 2004 figures, that the program could add $4 million to bills annually. Critics say that figure is bound to be much higher.

Expanding the cost-of-gas charge, say the utilities, is necessary to replace a system that has allowed some uncollected debt to be covered by money embedded in other rates that are part of people’s gas bills. Whatever could not be collected had to be written off, which reduced profits, and the utilities had to rely on future rate cases to try to increase the amount of bad debt they could recover.

The new system is necessary, the utilities say, because the rising cost of gas has increased the amount of bad debt. The utilities want to be able to recover hose costs more quickly and more fully.


(22 more “paragraphs” in print form)

Whatever happened to the “cost of doing business?”

Gas consumers in other states may want to see if this kind of program is in the process of being "quietly approved" by your state regulators.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. If at all possible, take your house off of gas and other utilities
This is easy if you own your house. This next summer, do what I'm doing, putting in a woodstove. You can even put in an external wood furnace that will not only heat your house, but heat your water as well.

Take the money you save from your gas bill and roll it over to a couple of kilowatts of solar panels, or better yet, if you have the room, a wind turbine. The only thing these utilities listen is money, and the lack thereof. Take yourself off the grid, out of the system, and they will get the message.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How does the cost of wood and the effect of smoke pollution. . .
compare against the cost and effect of natural gas?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Cost of wood is variable
It depends are where you live. Here in Missouri, and most states where wood is plentiful, wood runs $100-150/cord, and it generally takes three cords to heat your house for the winter(again, depending on where you live) You can mitigate that cost however by cutting your own wood, in which case it will cost you the price of a chainsaw(aprox $200-$300 dollars) and the cost for five gallons of gas, some bar oil, and some two stroke oil, around twelve bucks are so. The rest is just your time cost.

As far as pollution, most modern woodstoves and furnaces either come with a catalytic convertor, or can have one added on. This cuts your pollutants down by around 90%, less pollution than comes out of your tailpipe.

Now if you live up in the mountains, or in non-wooded areas, this may not be feasible, as wood then becomes very expensive. But if you're in the Midwest, Plains or back East, it is an economical solution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Here in Southern California the only cheap wood I can get is. . .
if I start hacking the siding off my neighbor's house, and surprisingly, I don't believe he'd think well of my wood stove home-heating scheme.

I know other's (such as yourself) could make a better go at moving away from natural gas to a renewable source like wood, which would then give you a better chance to get into solar heating. For me, I'm going to have to just "bite the bullet" and retrofit the home with solar panels while I use gas. In the long run it's the sensible thing to do: it's 68 degrees today but clear skies and sunny, so solar makes a lot of sense in this part of the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Ouch, yes, I imagine that cheap wood is unavailable there
And solar would be the way to go. Perhaps you could build the cost of it into your home mortage, after all, it would indeed be adding lots of value to your house.

And don't forget to check the relatively new advance in solar, thin film photovoltaics. More energy for your dollar, more efficient, and lower cost.

If you have a spare quarter acre of land, and the zoning laws permit it, put up a wind turbine. With lower tip speeds, the noise wouldn't bother your neighbor, especially if you go ahead and sell him some cheap electricity on the side;)

A couple of other ways to save energy and money are growing a garden, and getting a scooter. With energy costs going up, and our agriculture so intimately intertwined with oil, growing your own produce will save you lots of money in the long run. Done right, you can grow enough in a thirty by thirty plot of good dirt for you and your wife to eat on all year. Storage can be done either by freezing or good old fashioned canning.

And last Sept., when gas prices started going through the roof, I went out and picked up one of these
<img src="" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket">
It is a Bajaj scooter, it gets 100mpg and goes down the road at 55-60 mph. Great little bike, especially since I've got a fifty two mile round trip commute every day. I'm taking the gas money that I'm saving and rolling it over into the woodstove, perhaps you could roll it over into solar panels:shrug: The only concern you might have in Southern California is avoiding the highways. The bike doesn't go fast enough for the four lanes or greater, but does surface streets just fine. I live out in a rural area, and thus only deal with two lane blacktops, but I've seen plenty of places in Southern Cal where it seems that all there is are four lanes, so that might be a concern. It is a big enough bike that you've got to license it, and get your motorcycle permit, but in my case, it is well worth it. Besides, it's just a blast to ride. If it isn't below freezing in the morning, I'm riding, and having a blast while saving money.

Hope things work out well for you, and good luck:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I used to own a little bike years ago. . .
but with the traffic around here I might as well have Kevorkian for my co-pilot if I took to driving a bike again. And you're right: the smallest freeways around me are 6 lanes each side, with the main throughfare at 9 or 10 lanes wide each direction.

Your suggestion on the wind turbine won't work for me, but it's a possibility for my brother -- he lives further inland than I and has about an acre of land.

We've got a good size plot and have grown a variety of fruits and vegetables for years. I work at home, too, so my savings on gas has been tremendous over the years. I'm able to make most of my contacts through email and phone and rarely have to see people in person.

Thanks for tip on the turbine. I'll look into that. Maybe I can get my brother to share with us some of his savings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hey, with deregulation, your brother can set up as a utility
And ship you cheap electricity, while getting tons of taxbreaks. 3Kw turbines cost around twelve thousand, without the installation. Check 'em out

Six lanes, ouch. Yeah, no way I'd go out on that with a scooter. 9-10 Lanes, that's just insane. Another reason I stay away from large urban areas, traffic insanity:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. We have one
not the same brand. Mr pede's requires a DL license and tag. Complete ins coverage is about $20/mo. Gets about 90 mpg. Mr Pede built a box to bungee onto the back, can haul small loads of groceries. If he could just convince the doggie to ride in the box, he could carry him to the big park to run while I have the car at work.

Just kidding about the doggie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phoebe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. read in Natural Home & Garden magazine Nov/Dec 2005 has
great article about sustainable heating systems.

According to the American Council for Energy-Efficient Economy's Consumer Guide to Home Energy Savings (what a mouthful..)

"If you are burning sustainably harvested wood, the trees that replace the wood absorb more carbon dioxide that is created by burning it."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Geothermal
mistermonkey and I are currently scoping out some land to move to, and we will do our best to be completely off the grid (I love those words so much I had to emphasize them :) ) within a couple years. He is really into the idea of geothermal heat. We are hoping to use a combination of wind and solar for electric, we'll see how feasible that is depending on what the land is like. He has a better grasp on the practicalities of those technologies than I do (thank goodness) but we are really going to try to make it work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NotThatNolan Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. From each according to his ability,
To each according to his needs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Exactly..
.... communism is bad, unless it benefits monopoly businesses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Question is
Who has the most ability to absorb the costs of those unpaid gas debts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks to atommom, we now have a link to the article!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. More cash; less risk.
It's not just about helping to pay off part of someone else's bill.
It's about accountability.

But critics find the measure troubling because it’s another step by utilities to shift more risks to their customers. It could even increase the amount of unpaid bills that will be passed along to paying customers, critics say, because utilities will have less incentive to manage uncollectible debt now that the gas costs are sure to be paid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC