possible stupid question about the whole Google thing...

[arcane1]

please correct me if I'm just not following this correctly...

as I understand it, the Bush Admin wants Google, Yahoo, etc, to turn over all of their search-engine records. This means the records of everything that has been typed into the little search window, right?

Ostensibly, this is because of some crack-down on child porn, right?

BUT, these records won't give them ANYTHING except the IP addresses, etc, of the people who typed in the search criteria, right?

These records won't lead them to child porn, they will lead them to people who are SEARCHING for child porn, right?

One would think that it would be the ACTUAL CHILD PORN SITES that these goons want to crack down upon, right?

It seems to me that they could simply hire a few interns to just sit in front of a screen and do Google/Yahoo searches on child porn all day, and then look at what comes up in the results, right?

Wouldn't THAT be more effective? Getting info on the searchers does nothing to stop the things they search for...

it's like saying they are trying to crack down on people who are looking to buy cocaine, rather than going after the people who sell it. They over-hear me on the street asking ppl if they have coke for sale, and then they bust ME???

and I missing something here?????

[SmokingJacket]

1. You're not missing anything -- they're LYING nt

[seriousstan]

2. Most porn sites are out of the U.S. jurisdiction.

[gimama]

3. You got it, alright!

..it makes NO sense, because their reason is a lie.
Yahoo & the others handed lists over,Google has not. Be sure & google'miserable failure'! :}
..and STAY VIGILENT, keep ON with the critical thinkin', and TRUST YourSelf. Thanks for Your post,Your logic is right on.

[Steve A Play]

4. Fight back! read this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2400763

Then Google till the cows come home! :)

Thank you Mark Morford!

[arcane1]

5. MM is my HERO!!!

:evilgrin:

[havocmom]

6. If the junta REALLY wants info on child porn, they can GOOGLE it!

Insisting on the search records for who is looking up what will tell them which Americans are researching what subjects. It is to intimidate American citizens into NOT digging for facts on what they are really doing in our world. It is intimidation and possibly the compilation of a huge enemies list of those who seek evidence of GOP criminality and immorality.

You have it correct. If they are after sites with child porn, all they have to do is surf the web themselves. Looking for what YOU and other Americans google is a whole other agenda! It IS surveillance without probable cause. It is fishing. It is intimidation. And I believe a court has already ruled it is illegal!

[arcane1]

7. EXACTLY!!!!!

I'm amazed that ANYONE can't see through this. The logic is so flawed, I'd expect even the most challenged freeper to grasp it

hell they're the oneslooking for kiddie porn anyway :P

[blogslut]

8. not quite

This attempt to make Google turn over their search records is an effort to reinforce the DOJ's case for the Child Online Protection Act (COPA). The intent of COPA is to keep kids from SEEING adult content. COPA does nothing to protect kids from being sexually abused and/or exploited.

[havocmom]

9. NO! That's their EXCUSE! They are hiding behind children!

They are trying to intimidate average Americans into NOT doing searches. The internet is the one thing they don't control. You can bet they are trying!

[blogslut]

10. preaching to the choir

I agree. COPA is a badly written law. That's why it's been ruled unconstitutional three different times. However, I think it's important to clarify things. ;)

[arcane1]

11. how will those records help with that????

I could be 12 years old, I could be 99 years old. My text-on-a-screen says nothing about that

:shrug:

[blogslut]

12. the DOJ

is miffed about this opinion from the last time the SCOTUS threw the case back to the third circuit:

"In particular, it noted that "he record before the Court reveals that blocking or filtering technology may be at least as successful as COPA would be in restricting minors’ access to harmful material online without impos-ing the burden on constitutionally protected speech that COPA imposes on adult users or Web site operators."

The DOJ's new argument:

"...government lawyers said in court papers they are developing a defense of the 1998 law based on the argument that it is far more effective than software filters in protecting children from porn. To back that claim, the government has subpoenaed search engines to develop a factual record of how often Web users encounter online porn and how Web searches turn up material they say is ``harmful to minors."

I assume the DOJ wants hard numbers on how many times porn sites come up in searches using innocuous keywords/terms. They also want Google to do all the work.

[Steve A Play]

13. They might be on to something

or just on something!

Look at all the pure smut you get when you Goolge "Lynne, Dick, lesbian, Bush" :evilgrin:

Results 1 - 10 of about 650,000 for Lynne Dick, lesbian, Bush. (0.14 seconds)

Scotty Kowall's Weekly Tirade Dick, Lynne & Mary Cheney
Kerry, whether intentionally or not outed Dick & Lynne Cheney to the right wing
Christians that so despise gays and lesbians. He outed them by showing that ...
www.comedyzine.com/tirade386.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

Mention of Gay Daughter a Cheap Trick, Lynne Cheney Says ...
... "If you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, ...
Lynne Cheney issued her post-debate rebuke to a cheering crowd outside Pittsburgh. ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31310-2004Oct13.html - Similar pages

Oh, Lynne Cheney, Stop Listening to Mary Matalin Feed You Whiny ...
So, because Kerry KO'd Bush in the debates, the Cheneys are sent out to act as
if their openly lesbian daughter has been outed, even though Dick thanked ...
www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/10/ana04022.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

IWR Photo Bush Cartoon - Lynne Cheney Hospitalized For Acute ...
"How dare that skinny assed liberal commie bastard call my naive little 34 year
old daughter a lesbian! It's a red herring, ah, I mean, outrage! Only Dick ...
www.internetweekly.org/2004/10/cartoon_lynne_cheney_lesbo.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

Dick Cheney
Mar 1989, Dick Cheney appointed George HW Bush's Secretary of Defense, ...
Cokie Roberts about Cheney's lesbian daughter, Lynne Cheney retorts: "Mary has ...
www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/dick-cheney/ - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Dick and Lynne Cheney
Information about Dick and Lynne Cheney's wedding, marriage, children, and more.
... Children: Children: Elizabeth ; Mary, an out of the closet lesbian. ...
marriage.about.com/od/celebritymarriages/p/dickcheney.htm - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Sisters - A Book By Lynne Cheney - Gay Lesbian
Sisters - A Book By Lynne Cheney - Gay Lesbian is a personally written site at
... Everyone knows that our Vice President, Dick Cheney, has a lesbian ...
www.bellaonline.com/articles/art19337.asp - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

gay news blog: Is George Bush Ashamed Mary Cheney Is A Lesbian?
John Kerry made a reference to Dick Cheney’s daughter Mary, who is a lesbian,
during Wednesday night’s presidential debate with George Bush. Lynne Cheney ...
gay_blog.blogspot.com/2004/10/is-george-bush-ashamed-mary-cheney-is.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

Log Cabin Republicans Unhappy With Bush/Rove Tactics - TalkLeft ...
Bush is feigning ignorance about homosexuality, yet an out lesbian is ... I am
horrified and embarrassed that Lynne Cheney found it necessary to tell the ...
talkleft.com/new_archives/008308.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

Debate flap: Kerry hit for mentioning Cheney's gay child
"You never hear Bush or Cheney even say the word 'lesbian,' " Gephardt said. ...
the rank hypocrisy of people like President Bush and Dick and Lynne Cheney ...
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/10/15/MARY.TMP - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

14. I don't think it is supposed to involve child porn

The stated reason by the Bush Administration (which I'm not buying, just relating) is that they want to find out how easy it is for children who use the Internet to access porn, all porn. It's supposedly not to find out about child porn in particular. The Bush Administration states that they are attempting to defend the 1998 Child Online Protection Act, which is being challenged in court in Philadelphia by the American Civil Liberties Union. What I don't get is how they can tell who the children are who are doing the accessing and online searching from merely having the IP addresses of millions of people. And this is just more evidence of Big Brother trying to limit our freedom to search online and big government telling us how to run our lives. Why isn't the protection of children from Internet porn sites viewed as the province of regulation by the parents themselves in the home?

[jbnow]

15. The presentation has become very strange.

At first the media was saying Google was refusing to turn over a week of searches, millions of search results. Correct.
But lately I am hearing from same pundits that Google is refusing to turn over porn sites, to cooperate with government in stopping porn.

Now there is the outrage of Google having filtered searches for China (though they warn about it on the searches there, that due to laws they are not allowed to show these pages) Dobbs question tonight was about if Google selling out to China was enough to make you stop googling.

I'm not saying it's cool that they are doing the China thing, but MSN and Yahoo have already been. I feel like...they are trying to make google look like traitors all around so we won't support their good fight here, making them look like commie perverts.

[blogslut]

16. so true

The story on Google refusing to turn over their records has been completely eclipsed by the China story.

[applegrove]

17. If they gave the Google people parameters that were obviiously

"child porn" or "child exploitation" in nature... say all children's sites and all porn sites and all searches ... I'm sure google would cooperate.

Search and web hosting sites have been cooperating on that fight for years.

Why does the justice department need it so vague? Why everyone?

And which week exactly are they looking for data? What happened in the news that week? Like Maureen Dowd said - they have no right to search her googles because she and all journalists are doing stories on them.

[Eric J in MN]

18. The law is actually over access to pornogrpahy in which

consenting adults are portrayed.

The argument is that kids can access that too easily.

[arcane1]

22. still, they can get all the info they want on that...

just by going into their own office and doing a google search

I can't wrap my head around it :crazy:

[rman]

19. not exactly, but close

Not all search records but a random million records.

As i understand it is not so much about child porn but about children having access to porn.
It links to a court case involving the ACLU:

U.S. government wrestles Google for search records
Attorney general seeks porn search data to bolster defense in ACLU lawsuit
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/01/19/74616_HNgoogle_1.html

[Sam0724]

21. Ah, but there are TWO subpoenas...

From your link:
"Google has refused to comply with the two requests. One request is that Google provide the government with a "random sample" of 1 million Web site addresses found in Google's search engine index and the other is that it provide the government with the text of all queries filed on the search engine during a specific week."

I wonder what week... and why can't I find that information from any source? I find that odd.

[BlueIris]

20. Nothing to add to this except: there are no stupid questions.

Especially about the Google nightmare. You should see the thread I started on this issue. :-)

[Uncle Joe]

23. I could be wrong, but I believe it's because of Al Gore's M.L.K.

day speech. He is, I believe an adviser to their board of directors. This is the kind of petty evil shit that the neocons would do out of spite if nothing else. Al accused Bush of breaking the law and now they will try to damage him in any way they can.