So what do you think of Cindy Sheehan now that she is

[Auntie Bush]

talking to Hugo Chavez? Is she helping Democrats? I don't think so. She needs to go away NOW. She is harming our cause with her nasty comments. I liked her at first but now I have had enough. I say Cindy should come home and stay out of politics. She's hurting her own cause.

[Terran1212]

1. She is NOT beholden to YOUR political party

Political PARTISANS are hurting America. She speaks her mind and is boldly independent. She is not a slave to partisan politics or one political group or another. She can and will continue to do what she wants.

[GemMom]

36. Sheehan to Feinstein: Filibuster Alito, Or I'll Run Against You

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200601%5CPOL20060127d.html

(CNSNews.com) - Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan has threatened to run for Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-Calif.) seat unless Feinstein filibusters Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito.

Sheehan, who was in Caracas, Venezuela Friday attending the World Social Forum, heard that several Democrats planned to filibuster Alito but that Feinstein, who is up for re-election in November, announced that she will vote against Alito but would not filibuster the nomination.

[FogerRox]

49. WOOOW the big bad right wing CNS news LOL SOoooo Funnny

Actually Cindy emailed Will Pitt who posted at DU the real story--- here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x260971

[TriMetFan]

117. Will Feinstein is for the filibuster now right?

[upi402]

165. GO CINDY!!!

:headbang:

[TriMetFan]

113. Well said! This women is her own women and if anyone doesn't like that

go cry some were else. As a women I'm so fucking sick of anyone bitching about us women who are willing to walk the walk and to do talk. She has more balls then many of the people in this nation.

[Imagevision]

248. Cindy never said Chvez should be assasinated like Pat Robertson!!

[madokie]

120. And bless her heart for doing it.

[AZBlue]

141. True. We're all free to do and say what we want. However...

Cindy is often her own worst enemy and does more harm than good on the issues she's supposedly trying to support. I do object to that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

161. Why is she there?

I respect what Chavez is doing, but I don't see what he has to do with Sheehan's cause to end the Iraq war so that more sons won't end up the same as hers.

[Warren Stupidity]

214. Well...

Venezuala has lots of oil and has been repeatedly threatened by the Bush administration, including a failed attempt to start a middle class uprising against the Venezualan government on the Chilean model and a failed coup that had us publicly supporting the erstwhile new leaders in direct violation of our OAS treaty obligations.

Venezuala could easily be a target for military intervention, it could become another Iraq.

I am astounded that people here think that Cindy Sheehan should 'stay in her place' and not broaden the scope of the political force she leads. Iraq is not some isolated anomaly, some aberration. As we watch the propaganda machine gear up for war with Iran using the same techniques it used to sell the Iraq war, has it occured to you that the entire planet is involved in this mess, that Iraq and Iran and Venezuala and every nation on this planet that dares to not submit to our authority is threatened by our government. Its a small planet and Hugo Chavez lives right next door.

[The Backlash Cometh]

227. I already know what Chavez is about, and for now, I support his

efforts because I think his intentions are good.

But, he is a socialist. And there isn't a quicker way to smear a Democrat who is trying to get mass appeal but to associate them with socialism or communism. So, good luck if that's the road that Sheehan wishes to take.

[Warren Stupidity]

235. Screw that nonsense.

First, Cindy is not a 'Democratic Leader' she is an ati-war leader. Secondly, by your logic, Democratic leaders ought to have shunned the former prime minister of Germany, and any other socialist european leader. You are playing 'red-baiting', what a load of crap that is, and I refuse to play along.

So it turns out that Cindy was attending the World Social Forum in Caracas Venezuala, an annual event intended to offer an alternative view on globalization, in direct countrpoint to the neoliberal World Economic Forum held at the same time in Davos, Switzerland. This is not a socialist or communist organization. I am sure that quite a few of your despised socialists do participate however, along with some communists and even some anarchists. It is a fairly open organization.

http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/

"What the World Social Forum is

The World Social Forum is an open meeting place where social movements, networks, NGOs and other civil society organizations opposed to neo-liberalism and a world dominated by capital or by any form of imperialism come together to pursue their thinking, to debate ideas democratically, for formulate proposals, share their experiences freely and network for effective action. Since the first world encounter in 2001, it has taken the form of a permanent world process seeking and building alternatives to neo-liberal policies. This definition is in its Charter of Principles, the WSF’s guiding document.

The World Social Forum is also characterized by plurality and diversity, is non-confessional, non-governmental and non-party. It proposes to facilitate decentralized coordination and networking among organizations engaged in concrete action towards building another world, at any level from the local to the international, but it does not intend to be a body representing world civil society. The World Social Forum is not a group nor an organization."

You can red-bait away all you want about this, but you would be misrepresenting the World Social Forum. Connecting our domestic anti-war movement to the world's major alternative organization to neoliberalism is entirely appropriate.

[The Backlash Cometh]

240. Complain all you want. It's not going to change anything.

I live in a right-wing community and she will be swiftboated faster than Kerry was. I guess that's what you're calling red-baiting? I'm not red-baiting, just pointing out a fact. If she's planning to run for office, she had better be prepared for the swiftboating opportunity she has created for herself. What she had going for her was popular appeal on the anti-war issue. That is something that is resonating even among some conservatives who are losing their sons. But now she's branching off to listen to a socialist group. She's going to lose her populist appeal because of it. That's a reality. Just because you are enlightened, isn't going to make one bit of difference to her constituents who lean right.

[Warren Stupidity]

242. "she will be swiftboated faster than Kerry "

Oh no! Cindy has lost the support of the right! I hadn't considered that. Yes of course she should make sure not to alienate herself from rightwing morons. Perhaps she should put some jingo-ribbons on her car, make a point of attending church, bash them gays, and praise presidunce bush too. That will ingratiate her with your right-wing community. Good point.

[The Backlash Cometh]

243. Correct me if I'm wrong, but her district is Feinstein's district, yes?

If Feinstein found it prudent to court the right in her district, what makes you think that Sheehan won't encounter the same obstacle?

But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the district that Sheehan plans to vote for is composed of 60% liberal Democrats who don't flinch at the propaganda that seems to be working for the right in 99.9% of the rest of this country.

God speed.

[FogerRox]

2. She went to talk with Chavez-- really? That so cool.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Who are you to call someone a freeper who's been here longer

than you have? :eyes:

[rman]

70. issues, my dear. not stature

[Vincardog]

3. Cindy should keep the pressure on aWoL. Remember "What Noble Cause"?

[AtomicKitten]

30. I agree.

Cindy was never more powerful than sitting in her chair outside the dirt farm in Texas. Her message was simple, concise, precise, and powerful.

[Auntie Bush]

39. I approved and cheered for her then...but not now.

One of my questions was...Is she helping Democrats now? I really don't think so. If you still do...how might she be doing that? I live in a world of Democrats (Dean country) and I don't know one single person who approve of her latest comments. I personally think she's losing it.
I also don't like what she said about Clinton in Ireland where he's loved. That tactic doesn't make much sense to me either. But for the last time...I KNOW she has a right to say it. I also have a right to express my opinion and ask how DUers now felt about her now i.e. do you still like what she's doing? That was a simple honest question. How naive of me!

[AtomicKitten]

62. no worries, we are all entitled to our opinion

I think Cindy is diluting the power she once had, and it's really a shame because her message was so pure and so powerful. Of course she has every right to her opinion and to exercise free speech, however, from an election standpoint politically, she is no longer helping the Democrats. Unfortunately in the current two-party system, that ends up hurting the Democrats which in turns helps the Republicans. Your concern is certainly valid and understandable.

[jonnyblitz]

92. unless they disagree with you. then you start threads ranting

about them.

[mogster]

100. I agree that she's diluting her message

But for how long should she camp outside the Bush ranch? Should she set up a new camp next summer, and stay that course only?
If you keep both feet on the ground, you're basically standing still.

I find it interesting that she's talking to Chavez, and branching out, so to speak. She has a core of good spirit, that woman.
And she's not a politician, which is refreshing and makes her an ace up the sleeve of the non-Bushites (a wide and far ranging movement ;-) ).
She can say what politicians can't, because of their official position.

[AtomicKitten]

138. I hear you, but she had the Rs on the ropes outside Crawford.

The idea of one woman (before the crowd arrived) sitting vigil was too much for the cold-hearted bastards to bear. It was a scathing indictment of BushCo that got the Rs tongues a-wagging. She was vilified because she was hitting the nail on the head.

Maybe a moment in time that cannot be recreated, but one that resonated nonetheless.

[AZBlue]

143. And she's hurting the very causes she's supporting.

I posted that earlier too but I just had to say it again because I agree with what both you and Auntie said and it's so frustrating to me. You couldn't have found a bigger supporter of Cindy than me in the beginning but now I'm worried that her actions and comments are counter-productive and, as you described perfectly, she's "diluting the power she once had."

[0007]

142. You do have that right. And I have a right to diagree with you.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[savemefromdumbya]

5. We need someone like Cindy to brush off the cobwebs

The Democratic Party has been a old dinosaur rotting away for the last few years. We need people like Cindy to prod the old dino now and again! Chvez is OK really. DO you buy Citgo gas?

[pitohui]

6. i think she is a poor strategist

i think in her grief that she is flailing abt and not keeping on message but it's not my place to tell her what to do or how to grieve

i think she would have a better chance of getting what she wants if she hammered on one message, withdrawing the troops (assuming that is what she wants) than when she goes scattershot w. all kinds of messages, some that sound goofy to the less politically aware

however she is a private citizen and as such she is entitled to screw up

[AntiFascist]

11. you make it sound like she's running for office....

as long as she gets speaking engagements she's probably doing ok.

[pitohui]

19. well ack i meant to say the opposite didn't i?

she is not running for office and should not be held to same standards as diplomats and office seekers, she is free to say what she likes

all i meant was, when i have a goal, i find it more useful to focus on that goal and not allow myself to be distracted w. every cause that comes around to distract because there will be many

assuming she has a goal, and the goal is withdrawal of troops from iraq, she seems to be harming herself through naivete and lack of strategy

if we assume her goal is only to profit by being hired to make speeches, which i tend to doubt, but we'll assume it is, OK, then just stirring up controversy on any old topic to gain publicity is indeed a great strategy

i just prefer to believe her goals are not that self-oriented

[AntiFascist]

65. I tend to think she's being quite strategic....

Hillary Clinton and Feinstein have been closet hawks and Cindy has called them on it. Chavez represents the enemy to wealthy oil-dependent chicken-hawks who think we all need to die and suffer for their cause. She's touching on a lot of areas that many moderates would prefer to bury their heads in the sand about.

[pitohui]

128. we'll have to agree to disagree

i think she had a v. powerful claim on the nation's sympathy that she has squandered in scattershot fashion attacking those who would otherwise be friends

but she is not a politician and it is human nature to strike out in our grief

i don't blame the lady for not playing her political capital smartly, i just think it is sad, i doubt i would do any better frankly

[AZBlue]

144. But how will talking to Chavez help bring the troops home? (nt)

[AntiFascist]

197. That's a very good question....

and the answer is likely to be deep and gets quite complicated. You recall that recently the religious right leader Pat Robertson actually called for Chavez's assassination? It is this violent attitude toward pro-socialist leaders such as Chavez who speak out against the US that strikes deep into the heart of the pro-war mentality. One of my pet projects is to investigate the history of anti-communist organizations and how they have fostered a growing climate of fascist, anti-democratic and anti-American attitutude right here in the U.S. This could be the one of the keys to understanding the popular support behind our aggression in the Middle East. They may wrap themselves in the flag, but they are veering far away from what the founding fathers envisioned for this nation.

[AZBlue]

207. Ooooohhh...that's interesting.

You'll definitely have to share that info with us - at least here on DU if you're not planning something bigger like a book!! That's very interesting - I appreciate background and history on such issues because we really don't have a full understanding of them without knowing how they originated. And, personally, I am very dedicated to those ideals that our founding fathers fought for and any attack on them, especially from within the US itself, just makes me furious!

[AntiFascist]

216. Thanks....

I started a research project here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x2886

I would keep an eye on all the NigerGate/PlameGate threads that pop up from time to time because any underlying "conspiracy" is probably related:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=245067

Anything earth-shattering I have to contribute would go on my DKos diary:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/6/61854/9150

[AZBlue]

249. Thanks for the links!

I've bookmarked them to read more later and keep up with!

[Auntie Bush]

22. Yes, she is entitled to screw up...we all are...

But I think she is hurting our image...making Democrats seem unpatriotic and we need a lot of fence sitters/independent voters. She can say what she wants but I'm asking if you approve of what she is doing? I can't remember er just what she said but I know I cringed when she said it and the media jumped at the chance to jump on Demos

As far as Chavez goes I know he's not awful like our government propaganda machine says. But sadly most of American VOTERS believe he's a bad guy and having Cindy befriending him isn't helping us win any elections. And I WANT to win the election!

Yes, I've asked husband to buy Citco gas and I hope VT accepts his offer of lower prices for oil. We go through 9 gallons of oil a day to heat our house. We have to fill the tank every 20 days. Thank God it hasn't been a very cold winter...so far...knock on wood.

Sorry, I answered several people comments on this post.

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. Hmm.... You really think most Americans....

>>>>>But sadly most of American VOTERS believe he's a bad guy and having Cindy befriending him isn't helping us win any elections. >>>>>>

...have formed an opinion on Chavez? I doubt very much that most Americans could find Venezuela on a MAP.... much less know who Chavez is.

[American liberal]

47. amen to that. probly can't hit their ass with both hands, neither. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

55. If people don't support democrats because of that than

that's just ignorance and ridiculous.

[MadHound]

56. Heaven forfend that we look unpatriotic --------

Tried looking patriotic after 911, and look what that got us, Patriot Act, Homeland Security, and the wrong war against the wrong person in the wrong country. All with Democratic approval, all motivated by "not wanting to look unpatriotic":eyes:

And frankly, I don't think anything could look worse for the Democrats, politically or historically, than rolling over and letting the man who wants to coronate Bush as the unitary executive, ie dictator, don the robe with nary a fight nor whimper. There are names for those kind of historical figures, names like quislings, and chamberleins. What could be possibly worse than that? Hell, we're not even talking a flesh and blood battle here, we're talking about politics. What's the worse that happens if they fight? They don't get re-elected? Puhleeze, they've got their Senate pension, their Federal health plan, they can walk right through the revolving door of politics into the private sector and do quite well for themselves.

But we, us, we have a major shitstorm coming down the pike if the Democrats lay down for this one. At the very least we're looking at uncontrolled domestic surveillance and tracking. More civil liberties gone, more power concentrated into Bushco's hands, becoming ever more the police state. Unchecked power now matched with unholy greed.

Women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, it'll all be gone. Roe v Wade, gone, sorry, your womb no longer belongs to you. Corporate America, uber alles.

The Senate Dems don't have to live with the consequences of Alito. Their wealth and power insulates them from the worst of the effects. At a 26 million dollar net worth, DiFi can afford to sweep her office and phones for bugs every day, fly the friendly skies in a private jet to avoid the pat down, feel up treatment, and fly her daughter or granddaughter over to Sweden to correct that little "oops" she had last night with her boyfriend. At the median net worth of the Senate Dems, they can all afford these nicities.

However you and I don't have that sort of money to shelter us. We have to depend on the Constitution to defend us, and for an admirably long while, it has done a pretty good job of that. But with the appointment of Alito, that will all go away. Corporations will rule the day, with crony capitalists and corrupt politicians leading the charge. And our one defense will be trampled into the dust, nevermore.

Sheehan is right to call out our leaders, our represenatives, in whatever words or actions she sees fit. They are, after all, supposed to fight these fights, defend the Consitution. Each and every one of them swears to do so. About damn time they started living up to that oath and not just defend the Constitution, but perform in the traditional role, the legendary myth of the Democratic party, fight for the common man, speak for those who are voiceless, and champion the noble cause. Fine words when they were first said, about damn time the party started living up to them.

[Magginkat]

174. Hurting what image?

Hurting our image? Are you for real?

The Democratic image is so deep in the pits that it would take an act of God and Congress to get it to ground level and we know how likely that is. God isn't messing with crooks and 'Congress is crooks'!

They have allowed the Republicans to define them and I'm sure that I don't have to tell you that.

George bu$h has handed his head to the Dems on a golden platter too many times to count and they simply turn away. What does that crazy fool have to do to get the Democratic leadership angry enough to stand up to him?

Cindy Sheehan has taken a stand against the 'dictator' starting with his pig farm. I hope that she continues to speak out. She should be getting a Congressional Medal of Honor for doing what the Democratic "leadership" will not do.

Sounds to me as though you have other issues with Cindy & that's your problem. It should not dictate the policies of the Democratic party if they ever develop any!

Here's my effort to let 'King' george know what I think of him. I don't imagine you will like this either but what the hay!!


Add me to your List George

HOW WILL I INDICT THEE?

by Elizabeth Barrett, Special Prosecutor

How will I indict thee, George
Let me count the counts,
I'll indict thee to the heights and breadths of Texas itself
And whilst my ardor to imprison thee doth grow
My heart might near burst, yea
'Til I should see you, Dick, Rummy, ah, and Turd Blossom
Safely, lovingly embraced in the bosom of the slammer fore'er.

Send it on to Mr. Gonzales.... and the FBI, the CIA, the INS, the IRS, and heaven forbid that you forget the NSA. Please send it to the SS (Secret Service) which your 'Unpatriot' Act is trying to turn into a National Police force with the unquestioned power to trample on our Constitutional rights. Free Speech? Freedom to Assemble? Not in George’s world! Please add my name..........................

http://new.petitiononline.com/GWList/petition.html

http://granniesagainstgeorge.org/Forum/

[G_j]

208. "..allowed the Republicans to define them.."

how sad, but how true!

And now that she has spoken with another of the right's big bad boogie men, people are again worried about an image that was created by the Hannitys and Pat Robertsons. They continue to call him a "dictator", even though he was elected democratically, despite the efforts of the Bush admin.

Incidentally, she was there to attend the World Social Forum which is a yearly event held in various countries.
The main focus this year was war, and yes, people across the globe are very passionately concerned about war also.

[Angry Girl]

179. SHEEHAN is hurting the Dem's image? They do that all by themselves!

If she's not killing innocent beings, I say she should do what she wants, speak to whomever she wants, and I will do what I can to protect her right to do her own thing, because THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY! But thanks to the GOP, the whoring psyops press, and our present gaggle of spineless Democrats (who are nothing but GOP-lite as far as I can see so far), it's not going to be for a long, long time.

[Magginkat]

246. RE: Dem's image? They do that all by themselves!

I agree Angry Girl,

One thing that irritated me when I saw this thread was the author seeming to think that she speaks for all Democrats & giving the impression that her opinion is the only one that matters.

Cindy Sheehan has a Constitutional right to run for any public office that she qualifies for. I believe that the requirement for the office she is contemplating running for only requires that she be a resident of CA. She does not have to please every Democrat in order to run for office.

And for the life of me, I cannot imagine how she could do anything but improve the image of the Democrats. Heaven knows, they need all the help they can get.

[ClayZ]

7. Cindy is the face of the Anti-War movement in this counry,

and now the world!

Kudos to her for SPEAKING OUT anywhere she can!

There is not a bad bone in her body.

She is a bu$h/fascism fighter.

It was the power of her love for Casey that got folks to finally LOOK UP, organize, and think!

[tatertop]

38. I love her more than ever and agree with 99% of what she says

[sniffa]

8. she went to taLk to a communist dictator?

(that's what we're caLLing hugo now, right?)

my god man! i'm certainLy not gonna vote for her this year then.

[Jayhawk Lib]

9. I wholeheartedly agree!! nt

[dogman]

12. She certainly is undermining her cause at this point.

Unless she has changed it to something different than stopping the War. On the other hand she has gone away. She will become a distraction from her original message.

[SaveElmer]

13. IMO...she has lost her focus...and her credibility...nt

[jonnyblitz]

95. yeah, she said mean things about hillary

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[SaveElmer]

108. Congratulations...

You have reached the level of a 10 year old!!!

[AtomicKitten]

152. you're being generous

For the life of me I don't understand why some people are so adversarial here at DU, speaking in scorched earth, black and white, exaggerated ruminations. And worse is the assaultive tone, laced with sarcasm, always looking for a confrontation even if they have to fabricate the premise.

If I wanted a conversation like that, I'd call my mother.

[DemonFighterLives]

14. Go Cindy!

Hugo has twice the respect from me than dubby does. dubby tried to whack him. Cold blooded bastard that he is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Oh, the horror! She dared to talk to someone Bush doesn't like!

Just what, pray tell, does she owe the Democrats? Many of whom supported Bush's war and continue to support the occupation.

[murray hill farm]

16. Cindy does not care what you think. she does not exist..

nor is it her mission to gain yours, or anyones approval. Cindy is the champion of her own mission to end the war. she is just one person who has followed her beliefs and has made a huge difference..much like Hugo Chavez. It is not a suprise that they have met...they march to that same drum..that says yes..one person can make a difference.

[jonnyblitz]

17. DAMN, i keep forgetting Chavez is a bad guy here at DU.

why do i keep mistaking this site for a progressive discussion board when i keep getting the FOX NEWS point of view. silly me. :crazy:

[pitohui]

21. chavez is not a bad guy

you and i could meet w. chavez and it would be cool, i believe the state of vermont is negotiating with him to get some heating oil for old people and that's cool

however, i think for cindy, while it would be a cool thing to do, it would be hurting her personal effectiveness

that is just my opinion and certainly not holy writ on the topic

i just think every famous person does not necessarily have to meet every other famous person and trying to make the rounds in that fashion can diminish your personal effectiveness

[dogman]

23. It doesn't matter if he's good or bad.

The question is how does meeting him help convince Americans to end the war? It feeds the Rove talking points that her agenda is not about ending the war.

[jonnyblitz]

96. not everybody lives in fear of Rove. nt

[dogman]

103. Of course not, but he controls the agenda.

He's in the White House and he controls the message that most Americans hear. You can be right, you can be dead right, but in the end that's all you are, DEAD. We are on the outside and therefore out of control. What does that do for our cause? Maybe some just don't care and prefer strife and turmoil.

[pitohui]

129. dogman gets it

The question is how does meeting him help convince Americans to end the war? It feeds the Rove talking points that her agenda is not about ending the war.

[AZBlue]

146. Exactly!!

Politics is a game of appearances and she's feeding them the ammunition to use against her.

[Malikshah]

24. Yes, silly you :)

Geez-- it's like a circular firing squad in here at times.

What a pathetic topic to discuss. I for one am not about to take the bait from Herr Hookmeister.

[OKNancy]

25. He has a lot in common with Bush actually

weak separation of powers, the concentration of power in the executive branch, and the growing participation of the armed forces in government

That sounds like Bush, but it's from Human Rights Watch about Chavez

Perhaps, just perhaps both could be "bad guys". I like Chavez because he hates Bush, but he is not all sugarsweet.


Since winning a national referendum on his presidency in 2004, Hugo Chávez and his majority coalition in Congress have taken steps to undermine the independence of the country’s judiciary by packing the Supreme Court with their allies. They have also enacted legislation that seriously threatens press freedoms and freedom of expression. Several high profile members of civil society have faced prosecution on highly dubious charges, and human rights defenders have been repeatedly accused by government officials of conspiring against the nation. Police violence, torture, and abusive prison conditions are also among the country’s most serious human rights problems.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/18/venezu12258.htm

[LoZoccolo]

28. Not to mention he is like Bush* regarding external threats.

He keeps telling his people that we're planning on invading his country, similar to the propaganda about weapons of mass destruction that we saw here.

[Douglas Carpenter]

76. right, the U.S. would never take or sponsor military action against

a popular mass based political movement in Latin America. He must be crazy.

[ulysses]

90. snarf

:D

[LoZoccolo]

94. You could say the same thing about Iraq.

"A country that we were at war with would never try to attack us with chemical or biological weapons. Bush* must be crazy."

That doesn't mean that Iraq had them.

[bvar22]

160. Except in the case of Venezuela,

..the External Threat is VERY REAL.
In the case of bush* and Iraq, the threat was fabricated.
HUGE difference!

[rman]

68. There's much more to Chavez then hating Bush

There's good reason why we don't hear much about Chavez in the MSM (except for how he hates Bush).

Simply put, Chavez choose the side of labor as opposed to the side of the corporate establishment that exploits labor.
Not burdened by "help" from the IMF/WTO, the economy of Venezuela is gaining strength.

It's interesting that HRW does not report on the killing of Chavez supporters by snipers during the 2002 coup, nor on the police violence during the 1 day reign of the Chavez opposition. It's also interesting that Amnesty International choose not to show the documentary "The revolution will not be televised", which shows what i just described, as it shows that no blood was spilled during the mini revolution that followed the coup and which reinstated Chavez.

If Chavez really were a dictator he would long since have prohibited the Venezuelan commercial media (all owned by Chavez opponents, and a lying bunch much like the US corporate media) from broadcasting.

www.chavezthefilm.com

Chavez film puts staff at risk, says Amnesty
Recriminations after documentary on Venezuelan coup attempt is dropped from a Vancouver festival
Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Saturday November 22, 2003
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,12716,1090788,00.html

www.venezuelanalysis.com

Poor Women Gave Chavez His Win in Venezuela
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1979/context/archive

[jonnyblitz]

91. "the revolution won't be televised" is a great movie about him. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

78. and let's compare his record to the largest recepient of U.S. aid

in the Americas (by far), right next door in Columbia.

I would be very supicious of the American media and governments selective concern for human rights.

link:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/10/14/colomb11864.htm

"(New York, October 14, 2005)—The Colombian government has failed to protect the basic human rights of millions displaced by the country’s armed conflict, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. Displaced families are often denied access to education, emergency healthcare and humanitarian aid.

The families interviewed for the 60-page report, “Displaced and Discarded: The Plight of Internally Displaced Persons in Bogotá and Cartagena," described fleeing their homes after receiving threats, being subjected to torture, or seeing relatives or neighbors killed. When they flee their communities and seek shelter elsewhere, they may wait weeks or even months for emergency aid, are often denied medical care, and may be unable to enroll their children in schools.

“Displaced families in Colombia are doubly dispossessed,” said Michael Bochenek, counsel to the Children’s Rights Division of Human Rights Watch. “After armed groups uproot them from their homes, the government then denies them their basic needs"

[jonnyblitz]

97. I don't think people from the USA should be pointing fingers

at other countries based on HRW reports. pot meet kettle comes to mind. yes things, aren't always black and white. I know a bit more about Chavez than just "that he hates Bush". HRW finds fault with damn near every country btw. we can always pick and choose our info to present. I should probably dig up a few HRW reports on the US from during Clinton's time.

[American liberal]

43. I'm with you, jonnyblitz. I don't get it! n/t

[jonnyblitz]

98. he is the enemy because he won't let the US come in and

grab all the resources (OIL). I am sure our govt right now is scratching their heads trying to figure out how to get rid of him in the manner that we always do these things in those countries. School of the America's/WHINSEC anyone?

[bvar22]

157. He is also the enemy because...

...he believes that a percentage of profits from Corporations that use the Natural Resources of a country (commonwealth) should be reinvested in the "COMMONWEALTH"!
HealthCare for ALL
Education for ALL
Healthy Food and Clean Water for ALL
Decent housing for ALL.

Damn, if something like that caught on up here, America as we now know it would cease to exist!

Lets review, Chavez is:
*Healing the sick,
*Housing the homeless,
*Schooling the ignorant,
*Feeding the hungry
*Clothing the naked....

How VERY unAmerican! No wonder the corporatists and the "Ownership Class" hate him and see him as a threat.

If Cindy Sheehan wants to go to Venezuela and talk to Chavez, MORE POWER TO HER!
She helps OUR CAUSE by demonstrating to the World that we are not ALL bigoted, fat assed, greedy, self absorbed, anti-Christians!



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans,
family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."--- Senator Paul Wellstone

In EVERY case, "Barriers to Trade" and "Restrictions on Corporations" were created to protect something valuable!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[American liberal]

215. Amen! n/t

[sandnsea]

176. Progressive, not socialist

Some of the socialists around here are the ones who are making the mistakes about what a progressive is.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

18. Were you as upset when she talked to Bush?

He's a bigger bad man than Chavez. :shrug:

[Auntie Bush]

27. No...that was good to try and talk to bush...unfortunitely the coward

wouldn't. But others in America identify her with Democrats. It doesn't bother me when she talks in the US but I'd rather not have her representing Demo in a country that the majority of Americans consider our enemy. I just wish she'd stay here...we don't need more criticism about being unpatriotic. She is NOT helping us. Before you say it...I know she has the right to talk to anyone she wants.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

111. The majority of Americans who think Chavez is our enemy are believing

the spin,and "they" are going to call us unpatriotic no matter what we do. So I say screw em!

Go Cindy! Spread that Peace thing all over the world!

[leftstreet]

158. Most Americans don't even know who Chavez is, or where Venezuela is

[FogerRox]

29. Chavez & Cindy SOOOOo cool :web:

:bluebox: Bush & Hitler -- ya know---:weekly:
:redbox: Cheney is a Chickenhawk :tv:
:graybox: GOnzalez is a thug :radio:
:daily:

Anti Freeper weapon

Anybody recognize these folks?

[AlCzervik]

20. When did ever say she was doing any of this to help democrats?

She can do what she wants, i hope i never have to walk a mile in her shoes and experience the kind of pain she's gone and going through.

[FogerRox]

31. visiting Chavez is a slap at the BUSH Regime

Sounds good so far . . . . . .

[Auntie Bush]

33. I have FIRST hand knowledge of the unbearable pain she is going through

That is not an excuse to go to our perceived enemy. No. she didn't say she represents us...WE claimed her as our own...I did too...but now I believe she has gone TOO far and is no longer helping our cause. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I'M ALL FOR FREE SPEECH. I just wish she wasn't speaking for us...whether or not she intended too...the world thinks she is!

[American liberal]

42. what are you talking about? Sheehan and Chavez both

participated in a leftist economic summit held in Venezuala this past week. This is a GOOD thing! I posted a link to a Yahoo story about it and got one whopping response. Apparently, people here don't like to hear GOOD news or POSITIVE news about what people on the left are doing to try to improve the quality of life for people all over the WORLD! pitiful...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2066828&mesg_id=2066828

On eidt: The link from my original post takes you to a different article about the forum. Here's a new link. The World Social Forum, which is what Sheehan and Chavez participated in, was scheduled to coincide with the World Economic Forum.

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=Activists+Seek+End+to+Poverty%2C+Iraq+War+&c=

[FogerRox]

46. Economic summit they probably talked about

Lefties like FDR---


LOL LOL LOL LOL

[American liberal]

50. If you bother to read the article, you will see that Sheehan is still

on message. I don't understand why people are all up in arms about her meeting with a Socialist president who is funneling millions in oil money to help poor people. Nonissue, as far as I'm concerned.

Peace,
AL

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. YOUR perceived enemy, not mine

and not the enemy of the people to whom he's supplying low-cost heating oil this winter.

[AZBlue]

147. She didn't but 95% of Americans equate Dems with Cindy.

They do think she speaks for the Dem party. And, let's face it, she may not like some Dems, but the Dems as a whole are more aligned with her than the Reps are, so she shouldn't be hurting those who might just be able to help her.

[bemildred]

32. By talking to Chavez, she greatly enhanced her credibility with me. nt

[FogerRox]

41. same here

By talking to Chavez, she greatly enhanced her credibility with me. nt

[whalerider55]

34. i hope she took the time to thank

chavez for sellling cut rate fuel oil to Massachusetts to go to the poor this winter, in deal brokered by democrats Rep. Delahunt and former Rep. Joe Kennedy.

It was more than we got from dc, and romney this winter.

i guess you're suggesting that it is ok for congressmen to talk to chavez, but not icons?

as someone who lived through the viet nam era, i can tell you that i think the face of the anti-war movement sits in washington dc, facing the walls of congress with their fingers in their ears, their eyes closed and their mouths yelling i can't hear you.

chavez may be a pompous, self-inflated pain in the ass, but he seems to care about his people, he seems willing to leverage his country's natural resources to improve their lot instead of profiting his posse, and he did more for the people of massachusetts than our republican governor and our profoundly democratic legislature managed to do.

whether i like him or not doesn't matter. he didn't come to MA for a photo op pumping the first gallon. he did the deal, and kids will be able to sit at the table and do their homework this winter if they live in substandard housing.

on the scale of priorities, that one takes precedence over whether i think it is politick for a woman i greatly admire to have an opinion i don't care for.

whalerider, grumpt tonite

[Adelante]

35. She's all over the place

And nowhere near as effective as she was as the mother in the road. She's lost, IMO.

[Auntie Bush]

40. Thanks WesDem...I needed that.

[Citrene]

72. Auntie Bush and WesDem, did either of you make it to Crawford

anytime in the last six months or so? Have you been at any event where you may have had the opportunity to get to meet Cindy and talk with her?

Cindy is not on a tour. She is with thousands that have joined in on the forum held at the same time the "elites" hold their forum in Davos every year. Cindy did not go to meet with Chavez. She went to be with thousands of other activists from around the world.

Having been involved since almost day 1 of August, "Camp Casey", I've yet to see her message change. It's really hard to read some of what has been written here in this thread.

[AZBlue]

148. I did. And I think she's gotten way off track. (nt)

[American liberal]

45. with all due respect...

what the hell have YOU been doing to fight fascism?! preaching to the choir here? At least Sheehan is taking action, which is more than I can say for probably 80% of the slackers (myself included) who post HERE!

[Adelante]

71. AndI I hope you and she

enjoy the next Republican administration as much as this one.

[madfloridian]

200. You best be careful judging folks here. Activists are not all alike.

I am truly just as much an activist as you are, and I resent the statement you made about calling 80% here slackers.

Quickly, very quickly, those of us who were thinking of maybe a 3rd party are being turned off. Perhaps you don't realize that many of the people in this thread, including me, are very actively locally in the party.

I an anti-DLC, and should be obvious to any who has seen my posts. But I just as anti those who want perfection and offer nothing in place of the party.

I think this sudden onslaught of the totally intolerant bunch here who pledge loyalty to a foreign leader over our own country and party is just sort of the final straw.

Many of us admire Chavez and admired Cindy at first. I can admire someone but keep my feet on the ground and be practical......you guys have nothing to offer. I will work inside the party to change it.

I have been called such awful names here for defending the Democrats who are really trying.

[cry baby]

37. I am uncomfortable with it, too.

I love her courage, but she is most effective when laser-focused on * and the Iraq war. She isn't a spokesperson for the dem party and she can say and do what she wishes.

Chavez is just kind of creepy to me.

I don't think she needs to go away - I think she needs to continue to focus on the anti-war effort.

[FogerRox]

44. Bush had the CIA go after Chavez TWICE, TWICE failed

Chavez even got one of the CIA hits on video.
Chavez has used oil money to build a middle class-- he has built a economy.

Of Course BuSH hates him. HAHAHAHAahahahahahahahahahahahah

Thats why this thread is just SOOOOooooo Funny.

[Disturbed]

48. "our perceived enemy"

Who is "our"?

Ms. Sheehan has never claimed to represent the Dem Party. She is a American citizen who speaks for herself. I agree with most of what I have heard and read from her.

[rman]

69. I'm guessing you don't know much about Chavez

Which are your sources of inforamtion about him?

[American liberal]

51. and can you please provide a link to what you are calling "nasty

comments"? Thank you.

[FogerRox]

58. Yeah American lib is right --Additionally

If you dont like Chavez or feel he is creepy--- say what it is that makes you feel that way. Hopefully your response is more than hes A COMMIE-- cause we all faced that back during Viet Nam.

Of course if ya wanna sound like Pat Robertson-- hang tite-- lemme get my BS spray, I'll be right back

[FreedomAngel82]

52. I think she's fine and can do whatever she wants

She isn't any sort of elected official and is doing her own thing. Whoever wants to follow her can. If you don't like it than don't follow her and what she says. I think Chavez is fine.

[Pastiche423]

54. Cindy visited Chavez?

Too cool for school!

I admire Hugo Chavez immensely for not only what he's done and continues to do for his own people, but what he's done for the poor in a few of our own states.

I guess you don't know what it's like to be poor and freezing in Amerika today.

I do and it fucking sucks!

[progressivebydesign]

57. I think she's a nice lady who lost her son. She doesn't speak for me, tho.

She's a citizen, just like the rest of us. She has her opinions, and that's fine. I don't always share her opinions, that's fine too. I think the effort to make her some sort of liberal spokesperson is wrong. She's not. She's done some great things with her personal grief, and has helped so many people deal with the losses in Iraq. I think my biggest issue with the glorification of Cindy is that she has been given a national platform to speak about her experience in losing her son, but has taken it far beyond that experience, and into damaging and dividing our party. Many people have different opinions, but we don't all have a national audience for those ideas.

The BIGGEST issue for the Demcrats right now is the total lack of party unity.. the repubs suck, but they know how to circle their wagons around whomever the candidates are, and who the nominee will be.

[AJH032]

59. Why do some liberals hate on Democrats more than Republicans?

makes me wonder...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. Ooh, she talked to Hugo Chavez...and that is bad precisely WHY?

Chavez is "bad" in the eyes of the mainstream media because he's the head of an oil rich country who refuses to bow down to the Bush family.

[radio4progressives]

63. tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk shame shame shame shame on you! n/t

[Ksec]

64. She can do what she wants . Its a free country.

I admire her courage. Shes a sparkplug and thats what we need.

[DerekG]

66. And I wish that Martin Luther King would just shut up about Vietnam

Doesn't he know Lyndon Johnson and the Great Society liberals are the Negroes' best hope? Is he trying to destroy the party or something? The guy should stick to civil rights--he's out of his element.

Don't ya just hate it when principled folks refuse to kowtow to political parties?

[EFerrari]

75. That Robert Kennedy, too. He's going to make us look weak. n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

82. actually that's exactly what the NYT and WaPo said

[H2O Man]

93. And a lot of

the democratic "leaders" of the day. Martin was crucified by the "progressive" democrats and the media after his "A Time to Break Silence (Beyond Vietnam)" speech.

[dogman]

181. Hardly MLK, more reminiscent of Jane Fonda.

Nothing wrong with what she did but she realizes now she wasn't being smart about it. The Hanoi Jane was changed to Hanoi John in the last election and used to promote Bushco. Once again, this is not about right or wrong, it's about advancing the cause of peace. As noted it's her choice. If she chooses to become a symbol the other side uses to defeat her stated cause it harms those who support that cause but we'll get over it. The country might not, however. We live in a world where people see what the Conservative Corporate Media wants them to see. If some how Chavez could influence this country to take positive steps for peace it would make sense. If her goal is to broaden her horizon and become a spokesperson for new causes that's fine. It's just a fact that as she broadens her message it becomes diluted.

[American liberal]

194. please read the article about the World Social Forum

She is on message! Just because she's speaking from Venezuala doesn't mean she's diluting it--not by a long shot! I wish I had the resources to go down there and be a delegate for peace and democracy and human rights!

[dogman]

196. Interesting item in your link, some activists avoid Chavez.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060126/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_social_forum_10
Snip>The alternative forum had its own alternative forum: hundreds of activists are holding a separate symposium because they say the main event has strayed from its freethinking leftist roots and serves as propaganda for Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a former paratroop commander.<snip
Nothing to do with OP but amusing none the less.

[Warren Stupidity]

236. What?

We are not at war with Hugo Chavez or Venezuala. What a ridiculous comparison.

[dogman]

247. Propaganda is what it is.

The Conservative Corporate Media is at war with Chavez and they control the message to the American people. That is the point of most who are in agreement with the OP. It is not a question of Cindy's message for peace or whether Chavez is a good or bad individual. It is about gaining the upper hand in the minds of the American people. Jane Fonda was not wrong, but even now she realizes she hurt her cause by feeding into the RW spin machine.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

73. she is not necessarily an asset to the Democratic Party

but that is not where she is coming from.

If she was a Democratic Party operative I would be upset with her.

As an independent I think she is great.

[Citrene]

77. Cindy has no desire to be an asset for either party!

Cindy is a patriot and a woman and a mom. She believes in truth and justice. I believe she wants the same as most of us do. To stand up for and believe what we thought being an "American" was all supposed to be about.

(It's that damned "Constitution" and the words of our "founding fathers" haunting us! Don't forget the part about "we the people")

[SoCalDem]

74. When you become a lightning rod, you eventually attract lightning..n/t

[PBass]

79. I would not want to compare Cindy Sheehan to RFK or MLK

And I don't know why you would want to. Lets please not exaggerate her stature or her leadership role.

Look, I like Cindy Sheehan, she has done a lot for the anti-war cause. This is not a slam on Cindy Sheehan, and if you think it is, please take a deep breath and step back and think this through.

When it comes to the Iraq war, Cindy Sheehan has an extra level of credibility (or gravitas, for lack of a better word) that a lot of the public doesn't have... a personal loss of a family member. That gives her voice on the war a certain "weight" that my voice doesn't have (I don't have any immediate family in the military).

Does that mean that Cindy should also be the spokesperson against global warming, or for normalizing relations with Cuba, or clean oceans, or any other progressive idea? In my opinion, probably not. I'm not aware that she has any expertise in these other areas.

I think she should concentrate on the thing that she does best, and what she is most effective at, which is speaking out against the war in Iraq. We still need her help working on that.

[SoCalDem]

81. I agree with you..What I meant was that now that she has national stature

EVERYTHING she does , becomes newsworthy.

Lots of people "branch out" when they get their first taste of fame. She's probably just jumping at every offer that presents itself, and hopefully she will get more selective as time goes on.

I like Hugo, but he too is a lightning rod.

We have an unfriendly media and spokespeople should be very careful.

[EFerrari]

87. Cindy Sheehan is not a prop for the Dems. I think she has

recently made that point very well. She is a person with a great deal of courage who is willing to take unpopular risks -- which is why she was attractive to actual progressives in the first place.

[tkmorris]

80. After reading this thread all I can say is.........

Holy CRAP is DU infested with people who want to deflect what Liberals stand for! We have democratic cowards, always afraid to appear too "leftist", outright trolls, and what appear to be operatives whose sole purpose is to sow seeds of doubt.

Cindy Sheehan spoke to Hugo Chavez. Not only is that not a bad thing but fookin 'A', go Cindy. Jesus freakin Christ people, trust me, mainstream America doesn't even KNOW this happened, let alone care. Stop worrying what far right wing trolls will think of you. They ALREADY hate you and always will.

[PBass]

83. What Cindy Sheehan specifically does is almost not the point

It's also not about Hugo Chavez in particular.

How many of us are "ready for prime time" and able to speak to the media on every issue? I know I couldn't do it, and I am not convinced Cindy Sheehan can either. Like I said, there is one issue that she is emminently qualified to address, and in my opinion she should concentrate on what she does best...

Cindy Sheehan is going to get media attention whether she is visiting with Hugo Chavez or eating at Chucky Cheese. I'd like to see her use that opportunity in the media spotlight to focus on what she does best.

[tkmorris]

85. I wasn't responding to you

In fact your post didn't even ping my radar.

Cindy is saying and doing exactly what she wants to do. She owes none of us anything, and needs not concern herself with what actions she can take that will help us best. Her life is her own, and how she chooses to to state her opinion is also her own, and if anyone doesn't like it because it doesn't suit their particular cause they really ought just get over it.

[PBass]

86. Cindy is an important figure in the anti-war movement

If she is taking meetings with foreign leaders then that is going to be a "loaded" (with significance) event, whether she intends it to be or not.

Fact is, if Cindy wanted to meet with Chavez privately, she could do it. Since we know about it and we're talking about it, Im going to assume the meeting was intended to be a "media event" and not just something that "Cindy's doing on her own" because "she owes us nothing".

I hope that she'll use whatever stature she does have in the anti-war movement, in a smart and responsible way.

[EFerrari]

88. What in the world could be more appropriate than

an anti-war activist meeting with a foreign leader that her criminal pResident has tried to assasinate twice? lol

You are confusing the anti-war movement with the Democratic party. Sheehan is not.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

84. Unfortunately I agree that she is not helping and likely is hurting

"the cause," our party.

Was she political before?

Just wondering how it has come to be that she's moving in the direction she is.

[immoderate]

185. Remember Vietnam?

Well, maybe you don't. Anyway, the target of the peace movement was the Democratic Party! At least, it was until the party turned around, and the Repubs made that war their own.

I too, am reminded of the struggles of MLKing, who was criticized for "not knowing his place," when he spoke out on the war and other social issues. These issues are interrelated, and Cindy can speak out wherever she wants.

Remember, this is the Democratic Underground, not the Democratic Party. We tell them what to do, not the other way around.

--IMM

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

190. I do remember the Vietnam War era

LBJ became the symbol of that war, then Nixon carried it on.

But things are a bit different now.

Look, you're barking up the wrong tree with me and talk of MLK knowing his place.

Jesse Jackson was a hero of mine when I was in high school in Chicagoland.

Cindy can speak out on whatever she wishes to, that is obvious.

I'd thought she was not political before the Iraq war and loss of her son Casey.

Something about this seems odd, not right. But that's why I'm asking for information, to see if
there are reasons that make it make sense.

At the moment I don't have time to research it myself.

How she has gone from apolitical to so involved in so many causes so quickly.

[immoderate]

193. I'm just talking about perspective.

As a Jackson supporter, you understand that there are times when the party is the enemy, or at least wrong headed. And I'm sympathetic to those who are lamenting that Cindy's lost her purity.

I agree that Cindy should be careful, but she's a political figure now. Who should she hang with? She will be meeting a lot of people she didn't meet before.

I've met several Venezuelans in the past months. Opinions on Chavez vary. Cindy got a chance to talk to him, so she knows something I don't.

--IMM

[radwriter0555]

89. Why? What's wrong with Hugo Chavez? He's one of the most important

progressive national leaders on this planet; he's a good, honest, ethical man..

What's the problem? I'd be pissed if BUSH was his pal, not a good, kind, compassionate, passionate liberal like Mrs. Sheehan!

What the hell is your problem? Don't you know who Chavez IS?

[LuckyTheDog]

99. We just need to point something out

We need to point out that Cindy Sheehan is not a leader in the Democratic Party and that she speaks for herself. She does not get permission from Howard Dean to do anything that she does. And Howard Dean sure as crap does not consult Sheehan about policy matters.

I can live with agreeing with Sheehan on somethings and not agreeing with her on others. Overall, I like her. But that does not mean I have to support everything she does. We are not GOPer sheep. Our world is not a black-and-white, ones-and-zeroes duality. We don't have to kick Sheehan out of the tribe just because she wanders off the reservation now and then.

:think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

[KG]

101. Tthe dem party is pro-war. why should she support that?

[killbotfactory]

102. Yes. I hate freedom.

Silence her!

[deutsey]

104. Good for her. How are most party Democrats helping her?

:thumbsup:

[derby378]

105. She has the right to speak up and be heard - she earned it

She has always been in danger of diluting her message, though - we've realized this ever since Camp Casey consisted of that little pup tent in Crawford.

But if she's seriously considering a run against Feinstein, I say go for it. The Democratic Party still needs a serious blood transfusion at the top levels.

As for talking with Hugo Chavez, I don't have a problem with it, myself. The man is complicated - I know he's a champion for the poor, but I don't like how he's had some of his political opponents tortured, either. That's not Cindy's fault, though.

[lonestarnot]

106. I think that Cindy should keep going. And she is not "harming our cause."

Her nasty comments are true, and how can someone "stay our of politics?" when your socks are political? She has as much right as anyone else to be speaking out, afterall, she did loose her son to bushitler's lies. Let's not forget that!

[hollowdweller]

107. She's a citizen, not a politician. She represents herself not all of us

One of the GOP's greatest use of their media is to take the statements of one Democrat that might be controversial, and then to say that 99% of the party agrees with it.

Cindy's views are hers. We all might agree with some of them and not others. People of different viewpoints can work together on the issues they agree on, and even reach consensus on some they don't. There's nothing wrong with that.

[gizmo1979]

109. I agree she is hurting

us way more than helping.She needs to go away.

[Mutley]

110. Cindy is following her own path, but I think she has outgrown our cause.

She now stands for, or at least symbolizes, much more than just "get out of Iraq". Do we really agree with all of it?

[FogerRox]

112. "W" stands for Whatever

Lets see if this brings the Pat Robertson "Chavez should be killed" comment-- into perspective.

[Mutley]

115. What do you mean by that?

[FogerRox]

122. " Pat Robertson : "Chavez should be killed" "

Well think it thru.

Does Cindy bring out the Chavez issue into bright light?

Maybe showing Bush is wrong

Maybe showing Robertson is a whacko

Didnt Howard Dean make the case for "Make the Repubs play defense in all 50 states."

I say make them play defense all the time, every time.

At a time when the NEO CONS are getting beat up on every issue before congress in 2005,

WMD Lies

SPYAGTE

ALITO

And now the BUSH Regime feels the need to attack Cindy?

I say spraed the NEO CONS out thin. Make them Spread out their defense give them so many targets they cant concentrate on ALito. If they take their eye off of ALito.

We may just get a miracle -- and if ya dont try, it aint ginna happen

[Mutley]

124. I'm not sure the average folks are going to make the

connection. Is she talking specifically about what Robertson said?

I think the more likely connection that will be made will be:

Chavez=Socialist= :scared: = Cindy is EVIL.

I don't agree with that of course, but that's just the way I see this going.

[FogerRox]

133. good point but

If folks start talking about Chavez---it doesnt go where you say it will. And thats the point.

Thats exactly what happened in this thread. people spoke the truth about Chavez. SO in a way, this thread is an example of what could happen in the larger world.--

[jonnyblitz]

118. self delete. dupe

[jonnyblitz]

119. "our cause"? what is "your cause"? she speaks for MY cause...

her/my cause is ending the war. i don't see her flakking for any other cause. "our/your cause" here at DU seems to be whatever makes the DEMS look good, once she starts criticizing DEMS, DUers don't like her anymore because the DEM party looking good comes before ending the war here, for some, it seems. Cindy is in Venezuela at a World Social Forum speaking out against the war.

[Mutley]

127. I don't have that problem with her.

She has every right to criticize Dems.

[Joanne98]

114. Leave Chavez alone! His people love him and elected him twice.

[dooner]

211. Not according to Faux News.

They are getting away with calling him a Dictator. Heard it tonight when they were trashing Cindy for meeting with him.

HOW exactly is he a dictator??

[TriMetFan]

116. You are talking about the same Chavez that has helped many

Americans in the North right? So Cindy is talking to him so what. This guy has done more to help the poor in our own Nation then Bush has. Cindy is her own women and she should be able to do what she wants. Or are we going to start telling people like her this is the way you should behave? Will then we will become no better then the republican party.

[davsand]

121. Is it Cindy Sheehan's "JOB" to help Democrats?

Did the DNC hire her and I missed it???

Sorry, I probably sound sarcastic with that, but the bottom line for me is Ms. Sheehan doesn't owe anybody jack shit. Once she lost her child to this immoral war that was begun based on lies, she earned the right to say and do pretty much anything she wants to when it comes to politics.

If I'm being brutally honest here, I feel that any thinking moral person should be out doing the SAME stuff that Cindy is doing. The only difference is that nobody gives a shit what I (or the rest of DU) have got to say. That single difference does not place a burden on Cindy Sheehan to only speak to a pre-approved, politically vetted, list of people.

Not to put too fine a point on it all, but I kinda see Chavez as being able to talk to whomever he wants to, too. If he wanted to talk to Cindy Sheehan, and she's willing, then more power to him!

Hell, I'D love to talk to Chavez!



Laura

[Beelzebud]

123. To be fair to Cindy: NO DEMS STOOD WITH HER.

Every god damned D.C. democrat was too fucking worried about how they would look standing with her.

Maybe had she been treated with respect from Democrats in Washington, she wouldn't need to leave the fucking country to find a leader that will stand with her!!!

If the Democrats that run our party had a fucking spine, maybe she would be standing with them instead....

[dogman]

131. Maybe they knew where this was going.

In spite of how people think and feel about this, it takes a majority to win. With the Conservative Corporate Media the American public is not going to hear the truth. She is rapidly becoming irrelevant to her own cause. There were some D.C. Dem leaders who were seen with her but because they did not all support her views 100% she rejected them. Why is a "fucking spine" standing for what you believe? Why isn't it "fucking spine" to stand for what they and the majority of their constituents believe?

[Beelzebud]

134. Or maybe their lack of support pointed her in this direction...

I think if she had gotten support from the mainstream Democratic Party, her movement would have went in a different direction.

Instead, they ignored her, like they do every other opportunity to stick it to the republicans...

[dogman]

136. You said No Democrats.

That is not true. Charlie Rangel, for one, invited her to speak at the BCCC but she could not accept the fact they were not for immediate withdrawal. That is her right but they can't be expected to follow a policy they do not believe in.

[flordehinojos]

125. i think she might be wearing the soul of a real democrat, perhaps more,

she might simply be wearing the soul of a humanist.

[flordehinojos]

126. isolationism, bullets and wars ... those are not the way...the way is

dialogue!

[ronstratton]

130. cindy sheehan

Most of us felt for Ms. Sheehan because of her loss, but she made a joke of herself in trying to parlay a son's death into status of Presidential advisor. If the loss of a loved one to war made a survivor eligible for a Presidential conference, FDR would still be visiting Gold Star Parents.

[dogman]

135. Hardly a joke.

Might be considered that on another website though. GWB and his illegal war is hardly comparable to FDR and WWII. WWII was about fighting Fascism not becoming Fascists.

[ronstratton]

183. Cindy Sheehan

I was only responding to the original question about Cindy Sheehan and the expectation of the President having a personal audience with the loved ones of every battle loss. I was not comparing Presidents or Wars, only responses to loss. Peace

[I Have A Dream]

180. Speak for yourself. She didn't make a joke out of herself to me...

or to many, many other people in the United States. :grr:

[ronstratton]

184. cindy sheehan

Thanks for your permission to speak for myself. I believe that I have. rs

[I Have A Dream]

209. You stated it as fact rather than your opinion.

Enjoy your stay. :eyes:

[ronstratton]

230. fact vs. opinion

I thought that this forum was for opinions. Do you think everything on here is absolute truthful fact?

[norml]

132. What's wrong with talking to Hugo Chavez?

Venezuela and it's oil are on the PNAC hit list.

Chavez is the Democratically elected president of Venezuela.

We should support him.

[madfloridian]

137. I tend to agree with you, Aunti. I feel your pain on this.

I remember when she made fun of Dean after her private interview with him. He wrote a gracious post about her and their meeting, and he was blasted for "playing politics."

David Swanson of PDA wrote a piece called "Is Dean Drunk?" and the crowd of folks on a video just groaned and laughed and misinterpreted his statements along with her.

And then they turned their wrath on me for defending him when he was being blasted.

I think she can be anti-war without condemning our Democrats, especially the ones who are trying. I do not think she is getting good advice. And I fear this is turning into more of pro-Chavez forum than a pro-Democrats forum. And some are just unwilling to look at both sides.

[Adelante]

139. Amen, MF nt

[fujiyama]

231. We all admired hher

when she protested Bush when he was on vacation. She was and still is a sympatthettic figure to a large degreee.

But it feeels that to some extent, she used the media coverage as a springboard to celebrity status among the extreme left. Note, I'm not sayign she's being used by handleers, becacuse it seems like she is sincere.

However, at aa certain point, I suppose I must part company with certain beliefs of hher's. I don't expect her not to call out Dems. That's fine. Criticism is welcome and even needed. However, she's not a God and she's not eentireely accurate. Unfortunately though, it seeems as though she's burning some bridges. I didn't hear about mocking Dean, and if that is the case, that would be a very good example.

At this point though, she's not receiving too much media coverage so I don't think her recent stattements should be of too much concern to Dems.

[Jara sang]

140. The anti-socialist thing so 1980s

And if you think it's just Chavez look again, all of South America is turning staunchly anti-American. What are we going to invade them next too?

[AntiFascist]

199. Good point and this is a recurring theme in the Bush dynasty....

Turn those who speak out against the U.S. into true enemies that can be fought and plundered, especially if they have oil.

[radio4progressives]

145. This Thread is Evidence of a Highly Indoctrinated Culture by the ReichBot

boot lickers..

When are DU members going to understand, what our MEDIA portrays IS the propaganda issued from the Bush White House.

No one here buys into the FCMSM spin meisters whenever portraying our favorite Senator, Congress member as a Moron, or a Fool (or a left wing nut) but for some strange, inexplicable twist of logic, all this sound reasoning seems to vanish into thin air when ever Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan or Hugo Chavez is villified.

The level of reactionarism is so bizarre, the only explanation, is that the indoctrination by our FCMSM has really been effective, even among those who pride themselves as independent critical thinkers.

I strongly urge for members to take a deep breath and seriously consider cancelling your cable subscriptions. The Right Wing propaganda indoctrination machine is effectively working on you.

After you decide to turn off your tv, or cancel your subscriptions, Please re-read the book: 1984.

[EFerrari]

159. Amen. How a visit to Venuezuela can be construed as

"going off the reservation" by progressives -- well, it can't.

[LWolf]

149. I think the same I always have.

I admire her energy, her courage, and her commitment. I support her efforts. I didn't "approve" because I thought she would help, or not, any political party. I approved because I thought, and think, she is correct. I approved because I support people who stand up, speak, and act for what I perceive to be "right."

If being right, if standing up for what you see and believe, and if speaking out and acting on those beliefs, is not helpful, and those who are doing so ought to "go away," and "stay out of politics," who will that leave, and what will they be doing? What does that say about the cause of the party?

[earth mom]

150. Cindy ROCKS!!! She speaks for me!!!

Since very few of the dems in office do-instead they speak for their corporate masters! :grr:

[ruggerson]

151. She can do what she wants

but she doesn't speak for me anymore than Fidel Castro does.

And she doesn't speak for the Democratic party.

More power to her if she wants to align herself with socialists.

More power to those who wish to oppose that part of her ideology.

[AtomicKitten]

154. I appreciate your discerning comments.

I simply cannot abide those that balance hero worship with abject hatred.

Life is simply not that black and white, and neither are people.

[Cha]

172. I agree and I appreciate that

picture of Gore and Tipper! Where is it from? :D

[AtomicKitten]

186. it's from the internets!

[Cha]

189. Thanks! It's so Adorable..I

still have their picture on my bulletin board that came from when they voted in Tennessee in 2000..looking ever so handsome and beautiful!

[AZBlue]

153. Thank you for your brave post!

There was a thread started the other day that asked what topic you were afraid to discuss on DU. I responded: Cindy Sheehan. Many here seem to think she should be canonized and can't see the forest for the trees, which is a problem Cindy has as well. I've posted other responses on this thread, so I'll try not to repeat myself, but I do want to reiterate this: in the beginning there was no bigger Cindy fan than me. But, some time after Crawford she started to lose me.

I don't dislike her, I just wish she would stay focused and think about how her comments and actions will play to others. That's not saying she should alter them to kowtow to others - that means playing their game to beat them at it and win. She, like many in the Dem party, see the truth in their own actions and words and forget that we are fighting one of the best spin machines ever (probably the best). We must beat them at their own game. That must be taken into consideration and if that means altering the message than so be it - it doesn't mean altering the core of the message, just how it's delivered.

I also think she's gotten a bit off message: she was fighting to end the war and bring troops home so no more had to die as her son did. But now she's threatening senators if they don't filibuster Alito and meeting with Chavez?? How is that connected to the war??

Lastly, she may not be an official representative of the Dem party, but most of America certainly thinks she is and she is hurting the party. Since the Dems will have to be the ones to get us out of this war (the Reps certainly won't do it) then why is she harming those who can help her with her goal?

[Auntie Bush]

156. AZblue........

:loveya:

I don't have time now to post but if this is still out there tonight I will try again. I had no idea this was a scary topic till I posted it.
Live and learn! I'm just a two fingered typist and not a writer so thank you and a few others for your help explaining why she is hurting Democrats...not helping. Who would have ever thought a simple question that only really require a simple yes or no answer would turn into a hornets nest?

[madfloridian]

163. You should have asked me first.

:evilgrin:

Been there done that.

[AZBlue]

212. My very first post on DU was critical of something she'd done.

Oh, I learned the hard way!!! Talk about a big "oops!" But, I won't stop saying what I think and you shouldn't either!

:hug:

[donheld]

155. I would love to talk to Mr Chavez so why would I be upset with Cindy?

I haven't seen Hugo do anything I wouldn't want our own leaders do. In fact most of the things he's done i've wished our leaders would do.

[Auntie Bush]

168. It's the IMAGE that is harmful to Democrats and a turn off for

Independents, soured Rethugs and fence sitters. I believe we NEED them to win an election and that's what I want to do. Please look at the big picture. I loved Cindy as much as anyone during the summer. But when she started getting into politics and comments about Jews and badmouthing Clinton I'd say she was political...not just a grieving mother who wants to stop the war. I don't think she's helping Democrats anymore. That's all I'm saying and I want to win this election. After that I'd be happy to jump on her bandwagon any time she bad mouthed the Republicans. I don't hate or dislike Cindy. I admire her courage and I loved what she was doing...but not now.
I didn't mean for this to become a thread on whether or not you like Chavez or believe in free speech. I just wanted to know how you all feel about her now. I guess I got my answer. Now I no longer wonder why Demos keep losing. We're nearsighted...we don't see the big picture.

[EFerrari]

175. The big picture is that Al Gore won in 2000 and there's every

reason to believe that Kerry did in 2004.

The big picture is that the more you allow yourself to see your party through the corporate media's lens, the less clearly you will see it.

Democrats don't "keep losing" but they do keep entering elections that are corrupted. You know, the Palestinians just voted using a better system than we did in the last Federal election. How do you like that?

That's the big picture.

It's okay by me that Sheehan makes you uncomfortable or whatever your view may be. But, please try not to buy into the the "Democrats keep losing" RW talking point because it's simply not true.

/typin'

[dooner]

162. This has more to do with Bushco's demonization of Chavez

than Cindy Sheehan.

If Chavez had been painted with a red-white-blue approved brush, then Cindy's meeting would be moot.

Chavez made the mistake of speaking out against US policy, and many of the things he has said and done are no different than things most of us believe. Are we going to join Bushco by turning on Cindy for meeting with a democratically-elected leader who shares her position on an illegal war?

The right doesn't like Cindy any more than Chavez and they will of course use this meeting against Cindy. But that isn't her fault. She isn't being controlled by you, me, the Democratic party OR Hugo Chavez. She's speaking the truth as she sees it and for goodness sake let her be.

[EFerrari]

169. The premise of this thread is that there is someway that

Sheehan could appease Thug voters, which there is not, and that there is, as you say, something contagious about Hugo Chavez. That Chavez has spoken out against a policy that is lethal to himself and oppressive to his people gets lost in the Fox portrait of him, which the OP seems to share or at least, buy into.

I love the way posters to this thread say she should stick to what she "does best". The conference in Venezuela is on poverty and militarism, two problems that are intertwined. So, Cindy is being criticized for doing exactly what the OP believes she should be doing. (Slaps forehead.)

How inconvenient and unAmerican of her to share room temperature with Socialists -- who we all know are a bigger threat to the world than poverty and war. :sarcasm:

[pat_k]

164. I'll pay relocation expenses for Cindy to Challenge ANY weasel!

Cindy is a straight talker who stands and fights for what she believes in.

She accuses the criminals in the White House of their crimes. She demands they be punished. She demands they be Impeached and forced from office.

The right is full of "Get 'Em! Get 'Em!" people. It doesn't matter to them who the target is, they jump on almost any "Get 'Em! Get 'Em!" bandwagon.

If the "leaders" in our party got real, and started calling for Bush's head, the polls would turn around so fast the beltway boneheads would be dumbfounded. Dems would win 2006 elections by big margins in places the DC pund-idiots all say it could NEVER happen.

Americans across the political spectrum LOVE strong leaders who take a stand and say what they really think. They can try to paint Cindy as a radical, but it won't matter. Whether you like it or not, strength and unrelenting onviction trump ANY specific position.

She would be a great candidate in any state, particularly in the "red" states. If she wants to challenge one of the wishy-washy weasels in the Senate, I'll come up with some way to pay her relocation expenses.

As Clinton said at the Democratic Convention, strong and wrong will trump weak and right any day. (and I add, "and Strong and Right is unbeatable")

[upi402]

166. that's puttin' the rubber to the road!

right on. i'm so sick of dino's.

[EFerrari]

170. Hey -- she's mine! You can't have her!

:)

[upi402]

192. Share the wealth brother (sister) -it don't matter

:toast:

[DrunkenMaster]

167. the only people hurting the Democratic party

are spineless democratic politicans. Period.

[bvar22]

171. Cindy may be hurting YOUR cause,

but she is helping MINE!


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans,
family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."--- Senator Paul Wellstone

In EVERY case, "Barriers to Trade" and "Restrictions on Corporations" were created to protect something valuable!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[DrunkenMaster]

173. dingdingding! we have a winner!

Great response - thanks. We need to bring progressives back into the Democratic party!

[dooner]

177. good one.

and an interesting word jumble... guess we gotta start speaking in code now that we're all being spied on? Or is that just my computer?


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans,
family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."--- Senator Paul Wellstone

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Yollam]

178. And what exactly is wrong with Hugo Chavez?

He seems like a fine, courageous leader to me, especially in light of the fact that Bush tried to have him deposed.

I would love to talk to Chavez.

Will her speaking to him be of any use to the anti-war movement? I don't know, but it shouldn't hurt. Only right-wingers have a problem with popular, democratically-elected leaders that try to help the poor in their countries...

[Mabus]

182. Most of what we know about Chavez is through the MSM filter

Personally I know enough about him to appreciate where he is coming from, what he is working with and where he wants to go. He's a populist and so is Cindy.

I still support Cindy and will continue to do so. I may not agree with her 100% but it is refreshing to hear someone speak their mind.

[seabeyond]

187. cindy sheehan isnt a democrat. never claimed to be democrat and

isnt a friend to democrat. she has her own agenda, and it isnt the democratic party. when sheehan stuck to anti war, i embraced her. when she became political, i opposed her. i dont support her political aspirations, nor do i agree with her political beliefs

for anti war, that was sheehans event and the democratic party supported her, but always it was sheehans event and i respected that

she disses dems on a regular basis. she doesnt always speak the truth, a lot that comes out is reactionary, non thought out words. good for her, with her aspirations, but i dont think she is friend to democratic party and i dont support her

and she did NOT change feinsteins mind. another fake promotion. from what i understand feinstein came to this decision BEFORE sheehans threat

[Warren DeMontague]

188. At least Chavez is democratically elected

and without any help from Diebold, Nathan Sproul, Ken Blackwell or Katherine Harris.

[madfloridian]

191. I am finding that the pro-Chavez folks tend to be anti-Democratic party...

in every way, almost to the point that nothing the party did would make any difference.

Cindy had a wonderful message, she really did. But making fun of the Democrats who truly care and truly want to change things is going to hurt the progressive cause.

What it is already doing is turning off people who were borderline left/moderate....the ones who saw the party needed great change. The ones who are not willing to desert it to fix it.

That is the harm Cindy is doing...she attacks even very good people. I may not be Hillary supporter, but when Cindy attacked her it made he angry. I was blasted here for taking up for Dean when she made fun of him.

I quit paying attention to her until she starts in on the Democrats who do care and are good people. Then I will speak up.

Hero worship of any kind, whether of Cindy or of Chavez, carries the risk of clay feet.

[countingbluecars]

195. Did you really expect

that she would not expand her focus as she learned more about this corrupt administration that sent her son to die? Perhaps her cause is evolving.

[Radicalman]

198. She Still May Run Against Feinstein - That Would Be A Hoot

Cindy may run against Diane Feinstein. That would be a hoot! I suppose I would disagree with her on 10% of the issues - I don't care much about Hugo Chavez one way or the other - but, contrary to the impression here - most voters don't care about issues either. They vote on personalities and other factors. Cindy is very smart and articulate. She would be a breath of fresh air because she is so candid. From an ideological perspective, the progressive base would be hard pressed not to support her. Just to set the record straight, most voters don't care about the issues because neither political party cares about public opinion (there are other factors, but that's the important one). The voter's opinions are irrelevant. Feinstein, for example, doesn't support national health care or social spending that most voters want. As Noam Chomsky points out:

" In a democratic society people should know what others believe. And it is quite common. Right before the November 2004 elections, the same people, the Centre on Policy Attitudes in Maryland and the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations, which does the main monitoring of attitudes on international affairs , published a couple of big joint studies.

They came out right before the election. They were barely mentioned in the press but they were very striking. Again they showed that both main political parties are far to the right of the population on a whole range of important issues, ranging from the Kyoto protocol to the “ right of intervention ” , which the public opposes . I t takes a pretty conservative view of the UN Charter. Yet s upport for the United Nations was very strong.

" Strongly support s more social spending. Take, say, health care. It’s the leading domestic issue in the United States, by far. People are really worried about it and it’s a huge fiscal crisis when you have to deal with the most inefficient system in the industrialised world.

A strong, large majority of the population wants some kind of national health care. Neither political party will touch it. In fact, when the press ever mentions it, it’s called “politically impossible” or “lacking political support” or something. It tells you something about their attitude to democracy. But this gulf has implications. It means if the deficit can be overcome, if the public can somehow, if public attitudes have some influence on public policy a lot of things could change. That’s very hopeful. The general population is a lot more civilised than it was back in the 1960s or 1950s."

[bpilgrim]

201. She is working for CHANGE that is DESPERATELY needed

or none of us would be on DU.

i think it's great and a sign that the peace movement is growing and maturing. all our leaders better take note.


more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace

[madfloridian]

204. Many good Democrats are as well.

She should not make enemies of them. Neither should those who are not Democrats here. We either work together or the GOP wins it again.

[bpilgrim]

205. May the one who best represents their constituents views win

the establishment should not make enemies of the people. Neither should those who are Democrats here.

me, i am voting for change or the ESTABLISHMENT wins again.

:hi:

peace

[Bouncy Ball]

202. Is she not an adult?

Is she not an American?

Is she not allowed to speak to whomever she wants?

I don't get the uproar. Who cares? Where would you like her to go away to? Away from what?

I say Cindy doesn't seem much to care what you think about her talking to Chavez and she doesn't really have much cause to.

You are free to talk to whomever you wish to. Why isn't she?

And FTR, I am making no substantial comment on her, her politics or Chavez here, just pointing out I think it's weird to think you can dictate who she can and cannot talk to.

Weird.

[Neil Lisst]

203. Cindy Sheehan loves being on TV. She's got her own agenda.

Some people can't let go of the attention, and she's one of them.

She loves being a celeb.

[dooner]

206. yes, she really should stay home and take up knitting.

I hope you are joking.

[Neil Lisst]

245. Knitting, canning peas - either would be more useful

Anything to get her out of her desperate search to find one more audience as she spirals out of control.

Some people fall in love with attention, and she's one of them.

I'm a Democrat, not a fringe player, so reality is my base, not some fanciful dreamer who thinks Che was cool and so is Chavez.

[bpilgrim]

210. sounds like she got the right stuff then, eh?

all the politicians i know crave attention & it is vital to win, specially if you are running from a grass roots platform ;->

peace

[Neil Lisst]

244. Nah. She's just a camera junkie stretching her 15 minutes.

I don't think she stands for anything except getting applause.

[Warren Stupidity]

213. Thanks for doing their work for them.

Perhaps you can explain why talking to the popular elected leader of the vibrant democracy of Venezuala is a bad thing?

I didn't think so.

Stop watching the propaganda from the whoremedia.

"I say Cindy should come home and stay out of politics." Say what? Bill O'Liely couldn't have said it better.

[Auntie Bush]

218. Want to know more about Chavez' vibrant Democracy? Read this......

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/18/venezu12258.htm

AFTER you READ that come back and tell me if you are proud to have the
democrats embrace this man. Whether he really is or isn't Democratic
doesn't really matter. He taints our party because others THINK hs is a bad guy.

[norml]

219. If those are the worst human rights violations going on in Venezuela

then I'd say Hugo Chavez is, relatively speaking, not so bad.

[bvar22]

220. Shoot me in the head....

...when I abandon my values or change my goals based on FEAR of what the Republicans might think or say!
Shoot me in the head if the above happens because I'm already dead!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Douglas Carpenter]

225. and read the human rights reports on the largest recepients of U.S. Aid

I would be very suspicious of all this U.S. media concern about Chavez's human rights record which incidently has improved dramatically since his government took office: link:
http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media/Propaganda/Venezuela.asp
here are the four largest receipient of U.S. aid (after Iraq) in order:

1. Israel - link:

http://hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=isrlpa

2. Egypt - link:

http://hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=egypt

3. Columbia - link:

http://hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=colomb

4. Jordan - link:

http://hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=jordan

and here is the report on the U.S.'s own human rights record:

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa

[Warren Stupidity]

241. Oh you want to play that game. Ok.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_pub&c=usint
and
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_pub&c=usdom
and
http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-usa/reports

Pot:kettle:black.

Now about Venezuala. You do understand that the CIA funded an attempted insurrection, based on their successful Chilean experience, using the privately owned media in venezuala as part of their propaganda campaign to create a middle class revolt against the Chavez government? You also realize that we sponsored and publicly announced support for a military coup against the regime, in direct violation of our OSA treaty obligations, after the first experiment in overthrowing the Chavez government failed? I oppose censorship and I certainly do not support everything Chavez does. However the actions of the Chavez regime mentioned in your links did not occur in a vaccuum, they occurred within the context of a government repeatedly assaulted by a foreign power directly meddling in their internal political affairs.

[BIG Sean]

217. It's awesome that Cindy speaks her mind however...

I just wish that it was just as "ok" on here to disagree with her some times.

[gardenista]

221. Quite honestly, I think the same thing I starting thinking a few months

ago.

[PBass]

222. Some of you guys are all over the map on this, way off topic

Focus, people. This is not about Hugo Chavez, not about how the media spins things, not about the direction of the Democratic party, not about free speech, etc.

The question is simple:

Do you think Cindy Sheehan should concentrate her energies on the war in Iraq?
I for one say YES (Uh, yes please, actually). Because Cindy does that very well.

I'd rather NOT see her leading a Save the Whales rally, for example. That is not her area of expertise.
I'd rather NOT see her leading a picket line in front of a West Virginia coal mine.
I'd rather NOT see her leading a protest against the amateur paramiltary-types patrolling the US/Mexico border.
I'd rather NOT see her taking over Randi Rhodes' time slot on Air America.
I'd like to see Cindy Sheehan focus on the thing she does best. For one thing, nobody else is really out there doing it the way she was.

In my opinion, Cindy Sheehan should use the "stature" she has gained as an anti-war activist, to keep focused on the war, and not 'branch out' into other issues. Why does my opinion matter? Because just like VOTING, Cindy Sheehan gets her stature as an activist because people like me were interetsed in her and supported her in the first place. I am one of her "constituents" so I feel just fine about expressing my opinion.

STATURE is not something people award to themselves, it is a result of support from the public... and the more public support, the greater the stature. Cindy is risking losing support, in my opinion... STATURE can be fleeting for some. We at DU are on the left, and even some of us feel this way (worry about Cindy losing her focus). I guarantee you that many people in the middle feel even more strongly about this than I do!!! And you'd have to be a damn fool to think those people aren't important to the anti-war effort. (Besides the loss of focus, there is something called OVER-EXPOSURE, and that is something else I think she should keep an eye on.)

I realize this is all VERY nit-picky, and Cindy Sheehan will (and should) do whatever the hell she wants. But somebody asked for my opinion, so I gave it.

[bvar22]

223. Chavez is an outspoken critic of Bush*s Imperial War in Iraq.

How is Cindy "all over the place" by talking with another critic of the War she is working to stop? :shrug:

Where is Cindy Sheehan "all over the place"?
I didn't know she was trying to save the whales.

[EFerrari]

224. The conference in Venezuela was on militarism and poverty.

So, how in your opinion, is Cindy off the reservation?

The reservation that YOU are creating for her, in you better wisdom? :eyes:

[PBass]

226. I'm putting myself in a "Time Out"

I think I need to step back on this, read more about what Cindy Sheehan is doing, and think things over. I'm not sure what exactly I know, what I "think" I know, and what is just noise that is seeping in from the media spin.

Sorry if I offended anyone with snark, or sloppy thinking, especially Cindy Sheehan (if she reads this).

I tried to edit my last post but editing period expired.

[EFerrari]

239. Hey, I can respect the T/O. We use them here all the time.

peace,
B.

[fujiyama]

228. She's a private citizenn

and she says what she wantss to say. I don't always agree with her and I noticed she's not always accurate (no, Clinton did not kill more Iraqis than Bush).

She's only human and I don't hang on to every word she has to say. I notice that sometimes people get worshipped around here then they say something aand everyone goes nuts. I supported what she was doing earlier at Camp Kasey, but I don't view her as a spokesperson for the Dem party.

[erpowers]

229. Not Hurting Cause

She is not hurting our cause by talking to Chavez. What has Chavez done that is wrong? Did he steal and election or overthrow an elected leader? Did he wrongfully invade one of the country close to him? I would like to point out that I did not ask these questions as a way to compare Chavez to Bush. As far as I can see Chavez has done nothing wrong. He has just criticized Bush, which I think is his right as the democratically elected leader of an independent country.

[newportdadde]

232. I think parasites have lattached on to her for their own means.

She doesn't feel seem like the same person she did back in Texas. That mother of a slain soldier was just so completely real she was like a magnet for others. Her message was so simple yet so strong and I believe it started Bush's tumble in the polls.

Now she seems different, her Clinton comments etc. The message of 'bring home the troops' has changed in some way, mutated. My gut tells me that as her celebrity brought others besides fellow mothers and 'regular' Americans. It attracted small groups with specific agendas who are now guiding her in different directions.

If I'm right I expect her to continue to drift around and eventually go completely off of the war. The rightwing talking points of her being used were at first absurd but now I'm not as sure.

[0007]

233. Man, have the troops came out on this one!

Meant to say trolls

[Skidmore]

234. I still stand with Cindy.

ON the war and her call to action. Perhaps she may teach Chavez something about human rights too. When communication takes place there is always opportunity for peace and change.

[Stockholm]

237. Cindy is a true matriot!

n/t

[Greyhound]

238. How do you spell 'raspberries'? Will this non-sense ever end? n/t