FBI/CIA visitation at my mountain house Friday: POST 2

[DemoTex]

Please print this out, and tuck it away in a DEMOTEX file:

I split to Greenville and re-set some phone and computer parameters for the mountains. Tonight, I'm back at the mountain house and the phone is clacking and beeping like crazy.

I have had close surveillence of my house, almost every day, by close drive-ups. That may be due to the "FOR SALE" signs. But other owners with property for sale at Round Mountain report, occasionally, the same. (EDIT) "The same" meaning that, the same.

I'm at least profiled. HoooRay!

[bbinacan]

1. Huh?

[Bluzmann57]

2. Huh?

Your house is for sale and there are people looking at it? Imagine that. Take your lips off the bong and back away. Do not take hallucogenic drugs anymore, they are bad for you. I think you may be imagining things.

[wellstone dem]

3. There was a earlier post

where some guys in suits (business suits) showed up with the realator and then only took pictures of the ham radio set up.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. This one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2402716

[greatauntoftriplets]

4. Unexpected things happen

I had dinner last night with an out-of-town friend visiting. Her daughter is a Middle East afficionado, who is in an international studies post-grad program at Columbia and has spent much time in the Middle East. Lived in Ramallah for a time.

We discussed domestic spying. The friend hears numerous clicks on her phone, especially when she is talking to her daughter and they discuss places in the Middle East.

I figure that I must get paranoid about talking on the phone with family about the middle triplet...a boy named Jordan...which is a trendy name these days and also a family surname.

:eyes:

The moral is...you can't do shit these days without being damn paranoid.

[davekriss]

17. Like mosquitoes, when you can hear them...

...then don't worry, it's just a big lumbering male that doesn't bit. But when you hear nothing at all, that's when they bite!


Seriously, I think that snoop technology has surpassed the stage where it can be sensed by audible clicks on a phone line. I'd read nothing into that.

[pitohui]

5. greenville south carolina? (or north)

that is just being snoopy. don't answer that

when i was moving, i had an actual person ( a presumed federal agent for reasons i won't go into here) walk in -- the door is open when you're moving furniture and if the door is open they can walk in freely -- and attempt to get one of my helpers and then me to sell him drugs

since we had no drugs to sell he got no joy

but i'm just sayin

don't allow anyone helping you move who is not completely straight and make sure your real estate agent undestands there will be no smoking on your property until it is sold

i know, i know, i've had some issues w. my friends over this, but there will be NO smoking on my property, we can all remove ourselves elsewhere if smoke must be inhaled

you may feel you're political but the reality is that most of us can be quickly silenced by getting the dea or other drug investigators on our ass

[Maat]

9. Ummm ... it may be possible for them to walk in freely ..

but you can ask them to exit immediately, and they had better.

When I was a social worker for Child Protective Services (equivalent to a probation officer), we had strict rules about that. I always knocked. I always entered into a home with the consent of the owner, and stayed with that consent. The only exceptions were when I responded to a crime scene, at which the officers had already entered either with a warrant or under one of the recognized exigent circumstances warrant exceptions.

I don't understand how these people are getting away with this stuff, and I'm guessing they would be in trouble if challenged.

[pitohui]

11. oh yeah the "buyer" backed off right away when challenged

they're good, they're damn good, they follow all the rules because they do plan on seizing person and property, they are not just trying to scare you

it takes 5 seconds to glance around a room and make up probable cause

and movers, real estate agents, etc. do not know the rules or at least have no incentive to protect YOUR 4th amendment rights

it's your house that will be lost in forfeiture not theirs

so you have got to be way careful, keep in mind, you would never go to prison on this evidence but you don't have to convicted of anything to lose your property and therefore your financial future

[Maat]

14. Yep, you have to be careful.

I wouldn't hesitate to ask someone to leave, however. And I'd contact my attorney (yes, I have one, just in case) right away.

I have volunteered for civil-rights/defense attorneys, so I'm glad I have some friends and contacts.

And, any officer had better take his 'probable cause' and put it onto an affidavit, and swear to the information before a magistrate, with warrant signed subsequently by said magistrate.

Or he won't be searching my residence without consequence.

[phusion]

7. Can you post a few of the photos you took of these two men? n/t

[punpirate]

8. Can you explain...

... by resetting phone and computer parameters in Greenville? Was anything done which could affect phone operation at the mountain house? (Only asking because I don't understand what you mean by resetting.)

A lot of people are going to say it's your imagination, because a good tap won't make any noise. However, something done without a warrant could be hastily done and without much skill. Right now, I would report it to the phone company and say the line quality has deteriorated badly in the last few days, and let them check the actual lines. If they have no warrant for a wiretap, they'll likely see it as a legitimate request and do the checks.

The important thing is to have them physically check the line pair going to the house and at the junction. Many years ago, I asked for an automated check on my line when it went dead and the idiot at the call desk said it was fine, and it must be a problem inside the house. I knew that wasn't the case because I'd already checked for signal with a voltmeter at the service entrance. So, I cut the aerial line at the service entrance, went to another phone, called them back and said, "try again." The same guy said that he'd checked it again and it was fine. I said, "okay, I cut the aerial line at the service entrance--how come you say it's fine."

Of course, they screamed bloody murder ("YOU CUT OUR LINE??!!!???!!!), but they sent out a repair guy who spent half a day tracing the wrong circuit because they'd sent him to check the wrong pair. When he finally starting tracing backwards from my house, he found a break inside the aerial line going to my house.

The upshot of it is that they need to physically check your line and connections. If there's a half-assed tap on the line, they'll find it and they'll tell you--if there's no warrant. If there is a warrant, you'll get a BS story.

Cheers. Good luck with it.

[stevedeshazer]

10. Those curious go here:

DemoTex has reason to be concerned. If he says it, I trust him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2402716

[shance]

12. You keep us posted DemoTex and take care.

And trust the instincts.

[lvx35]

13. THANKS for posting.

people may call you paranoid, but absolutely post. Every time somebody posts something like this, it gives opportunities for others who've been through the same stuff to compare notes. If its all paranoia, we'll see the patterns and label it as such. But I don't think it is. Here's my relevant experiences for you:
1) Mountain houses: While visiting my mother in a mountain house that she had just moved into in Colorado, a man appeared on the property taking photos. When my mother went out to speak to him, he ran away at top speed. I observed cars driving back and forth by the house at many hours, though it was at the end of a cul-de-sac on a fairly isolated road. We were also followed home to the same cul-de-sac. Surveillance equipment was installed and I kept loaded weapons nearby, and the problems seemed to cool down.
2) Incompetent surveillance techniques: I have had many situations of cars slowing down casing a place, or other "obvious" tactics. This confused me, because if secrecy is an important factor, they are totally incompetent. It made me wonder if the point was to "send a message". Such tactics have been espoused in DC as good for suppressing "potential terrorists".
Also, beware that just cause they're watching you doesn't mean its the feds. Burglars case houses too.
So there's my two cents: be secure, and have fun. Don't let any of it get under your skin, don't let it psyche you out. Install motion sensitive cameras if you like, post every car that goes in front of your house on the Internet if you like, but have fun at it and enjoy life. If the game is to fuck with yer head, don't let em win! :)

edit: spelling

[dusmcj]

15. if you get the sense that seizures are about to take place

of comms, legally owned firearms and/or their owners, please try to publicize it in whatever venues you deem appropriate.

It occurs to me that TIPS, which would have had utility workers and other businesspeople with access to private residences supply surveillance data to a central system, was allegedly replaced with multiple programs accomplishing the same thing, just more low-key and more segmented (by industry ?).

There is a tone emerging that there is a Constitutional crisis afoot, and the question of whether there is one and whether it is justified is separate from whether the InDoobitables believe it. They are rats, except that instead of leaving the ship, they will become more dangerous when cornered. Hearings are about to start in the Senate about the NSA warrantless domestic spying program, and there are bills active to censure Doober and Cheney and investigate the administration's manipulation of Iraq WMD intel. Since these people entered office with an agenda at least to reestablish the power of the executive branch after Nixon's fuckup caused them to lose it, they are unlikely to go down without a fight, and I think odds are even that they are prepared to try to use "any means necessary" to try to prevail.

Watch your back, and keep the lines open.

[Blue_Roses]

16. very bizarre

what reason would they have for doing this?

[librechik]

18. keep being careful, Mac--we support you in the underground!

stay in touch

:loveya:

[Mr.Green93]

19. Is this just some backhanded way

of bragging about your "mountain home"?