The monster who killed her kids

[AngryAmish]

<http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/387022p-328297c.html>

"The monster mom who smothered her three young kids in an Arkansas trailer allegedly blamed her husband in New York for driving her to the shocking murders.
Neighbors said she feared her husband was going to divorce her and take the kids away - a fate she feared more than death.

Paula Mendez, 43, admitted killing the couple's 5-year-old twins Samanta and Samuel and 8-year-old son Elvis during a terrifying phone call to her husband, Arturo Morales, early Saturday morning, sources said.

The frantic father, a construction worker originally from Mexico City, alerted local authorities and hopped in a car to head down South."

[sui generis]

1. greeeaaaat. somebody go find the pitchforks and torches.

"monster"

Well, she's mentally ill for one thing, because normal people don't murder their kids.

What is a monster, anyway?

[meegbear]

3. New York City tabloid ...

the more adjectives and knicknames, the better.

[SunDrop23]

48. The Sun (London) does that all the time. (nfm)

[RB TexLa]

12. So had a father smothered his children and said

My wife is going to divorce me take my kids and make me pay child support you would say he was mentally ill and not a monster?

[sui generis]

18. what is a "monster"?

just curious since nobody is taking a stab at a definition. This is a real question, not rhetorical.

No, I would say that normal sane people do not murder. It's a lot easier on the ol' cognitive dissonance, and I don't care what social rationale or cultural baggage we pin on "motivation".

By definition if you murder you are failed brain tissue and protoplasm.

[RB TexLa]

27. monster

"what is a "monster"?"


A term used by society in general to describe a person who engages in behavior that is considered to be wholly without warrant or justification.

[sui generis]

29. oh, so gays were monsters

still are, actually.

So are people who get basket weaving degrees.

You're speaking about mob mentality. There are no such things as monsters, or whatever a "monster" is relies purely on subjective opinion.

We are a stronger society if we can dispense of our quaint 18th century thinking and look at the real issues. Somebody who murders, for religious psychosis or for "crime of passion" psychosis or for greed psychosis is still psychotic.

Sane people do not murder, do not consider murder, do not have a snapping point in which they go apeshit and commit murder. It's really that simple. And if it's not, then we have problems addressing really real reality. I don't think that someone with an anyeurism is healthy if the damthing can blow at any moment. Similarly someone who is normal 99.9% of the time but starts looking for people to icepick through the eyeball or axe murder in the parking lot whenever they get stressed out IS NOT NORMAL.

[RB TexLa]

30. I made no argument regarding what causes people to do things

I gave you what I feel to be the definition of the word in the frame it was used. And of course it is subjectively used it is a term describing the actions of others. Yes I know the term is describing the person but it is doing so based on their actions. If it were literally describing her it would only be used if she were say 7 feet tall and displaying athletic ability or some other feat of power.

A situation where someone murders three children is by most all people thought to be without warrant or justification. There are certainly other times where ones actions might be described as such by some but not by others.

[sui generis]

14. sorry rgb

I grandstanded (grandstood?) a bit at your expense - not intended.

I just think that as a society we unnecessarily complicate the arguments surrounding severity of the crime once we introduce layman concepts of "sanity" into the discussion.

Monsters - always kind of remind me of the Frankenstein tale. A frightened or hungry lion that kills someone in Central Park is also subjectively a monster, as we are to the cows and pigs we eat.

[RB TexLa]

15. no problem

:pals:

[H2O Man]

37. I agree in large part,

and especially with the general tone of your posts on this thread. However, there are groups of people who do commit murder who do not have a mental illness, and who are in no way psychotic. They tend to be what is called a sociopath or psychopath.

In the case described in this thread, there really isn't enough information for anyone to do more than speculate. It seems likely the woman in question has a mental illness. It could be a psychotic disorder, or a severe personality disorder. Or, she might be something else. It is natural for us to try to "make sense" of something that makes no sense, and it reflects on your goodness that you see it in the light that you do.

I will say that those with basket weaving degrees, especially if they are talented in the art of home-made candle production, pose a serious threat to society.

[sendero]

39. So by definition..

.... everyone who commits murder is insane. I agree, to a point, but not to the point that I would let it mitigate their sentence.

[BoneDaddy]

20. Absolutely not

Women are not accountable only men are in some people's victim based minds.

[phylny]

32. It's one thing for one of US to say it, but quite another for a newspaper

to editorialize it this way.

[rodeodance]

2. Tragedy need not be compounded by the likes

of this headline.

[mrcheerful]

4. Funny how MSM can call this woman a monster yet never say a word

about what women and girls face in the muslum world. Beat to death, disfigurement by husbands, beheadings for standing up to a male are never even talked about in MSM. Yet this woman is a monster.

[DBoon]

6. Funny how MSM can call this woman a monster yet never say a word

about the many thousands of children and women killed due to warfare in Iraq

[Jon8503]

5. I think it is a little early to be calling her a Monster. Yes, a

horrible, horrible tragedy, but maybe just maybe if she had not been so isolated. It is too early to lay blame anywhere but I certainly think what happened here warrants some kind of investigation to the circumstances of people like this that are stuck in a foreign land trying to survive.

Her husband it appears was trying to make a living for them, pay off the mortgage. Sent her and the kids back to where he felt they were safer.

They say she went to church every Sunday. Did'nt someone there recognize the fact she may have had some mental problems.

Regardless, I am not sure I would call her a monster. There is enough grief already without throwing out those terms.

[LisaL]

7. Oh dear me. Hypocrisy in its best.

When some guy in Iran killed his daughters because the elder one supposedly committed adultery, not many had a problem with calling him a monster.
But this woman, of course, is mentally ill.
:eyes:

[Yollam]

11. They're both monsters in my book.

I don't think mental illness is an excuse for murdering people.

[MadHound]

22. Spoken like someone who's never dealt with mental illness

Either with somebody they know, or personally. Also sounds like somebody who buys the hype that mental illness is just an excuse for not receiving punishment.

Well, a couple of clues for you. People who are mentally ill can and do kill, and yes, they are ill. Schizophrenic, bipolar, depression, the list of mental illnesses that can lead to fatal violence is a long run. If you take these people and put them in with the general prison population, you are doing both them and the other prisoners a disservice. You're not going to get the treatment needed for such a person in a regular prison, and you are going to be exposing the rest of the inmates to some serious danger. That's not right.

Secondly, don't buy the hype you hear on TV. Very very few, one percent or less, of the people who use the insanity defense at their trial actually have success. And what a success that is:eyes: The person is locked down in a mental institution, in close contact with other mentally ill patients, to stay their indefinitely until it is imperically shown that they are no longer a danger to themselves or others. Meanwhile, as their illness gets better, their conscience punishes them harsher and harsher. Some can't take it, and kill themselves when they are "sane" because they can't bear the thought that they killed.

Those who are truly mentally ill are not responsible for their actions. And sadly, as more and more mental health budgets get slashed, and more and more of the mentally ill are left untreated, you are going to see more murders done by the mentally ill. Shouldn't we be punishing those who allowed them to go untreated, rather than make somebody who wasn't responsible for their actions pay the price for another's negligence?

[LisaL]

13. I believe when the Iranian man killed his kids, the word barbaric

was distinctly mentioned. I don't think many suggested that this poor man should get treatment for his mental illness. But what is particularly pathetic is that you automatically assume that this woman killed her kids because she is mentally ill. How do you even know she was? She obviously didn't have PPD, the youngest kids were 6 years old.

[MadHound]

21. Ironic isn't it, since so many around here assume she's sane

And more in particular, the person I was responding to didn't care one way or the other whether she was sane or not, his answer was prison and/or death penalty anyway, sanity didn't matter. That was more the point that I was addressing anyway. But hey, thanks for chiming in.

As for the Iranian man, I really have no clue as to the case that you're talking about, so perhaps you should provide a link, or fill me in:shrug:

And I didn't automatically assume that she was mentally ill. If you read my post, and one further downthread, I don't think that there is anyway that you can find that I'm automatically assuming anything.

And there are other mental illnesses besides PPD that will force a person into murder. Schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, etc. etc. Deseases that anybody, including you, can get at anytime in their lives.

But hey, thanks for playing.

[Dorian Gray]

47. Because she is a "weak woman",

prone to hysteria, as most women are. The root of Hysteria comes from the Greek word for uterus, and it is a word that was meant to describe women's "neuroses" as related to their uterus. Don't you know, only women would be mentally ill enough to kill their children. Men are barbaric enough to do that without mental illness.

(That was sarcastic, in case it wasn't obvious.)

I don't like the immediate jump to the "loony" female, as I believe that it perpetuates the belief that women are weak and prone to mental illness more than men are. Some people are capable of truly heinous acts, and this was such an act. I would call it monstrous.

[Yollam]

25. I'm generally receptive when it comes to the need for care...

...but when they kill someone, they instantly turn into a villain in my eyes. Sorry for my neanderthal mentality - it's not about to change. Even if mental health budgets were what they should be, you can't force people to get treatment, and I doubt this woman would have come in for it.

Oh and I feel sorry for them that they may feel horrible as they realize what they've done, but it's not even a fraction of the sympathy I feel for the innocent children they murdered out of their own selfishness.

(By the way, this woman sounds less "mentally ill" than just extremely selfish and insecure, from the description. Paula Yates seemed more to fit the profile of a mentally ill person)

[MadHound]

17. Well, if the mental health budgets hadn't been slashed, time and again

Since Reagan's turn in office, there might have been somebody around to help this woman when she needed it. But in these times of much lower social services, I doubt that DeQueen Arkansas had anybody she could turn to for help.

And again, throwing mental patients in amongst the general prison population is doing disservice to both her and the rest of the prison population. If she is indeed mentally ill, she will get worse in prison, and will be a danger to other inmates, the guards, and herself.

And just for your information, yes indeed, you can force somebody to get help. The rules vary from state to state, but in general you can have somebody committed involuntarily for up to seventy two hours, and if further evaluation proofs that they're an ongoing danger to themselves and/or others, until they're stabilized and no longer present a threat.

And indeed, without evaluating this woman, I cannot say whether or not she is indeed mentally ill. However if she is found to be mentally ill, by the courts, throwing her in prison to rot, for a disease that is treatable, is in and of itself a crime. I would like to think that this country has advanced and become more civilized in this regard. Sadly, we have not. So you will probably get your wish in this case. But don't celebrate too much, next time it could be you.

[LostinVA]

8. It really sounds like some sort of psychotic episode

Not something socioptahic... who knows. I guess we'll find out.

Just a tragedy all around.

[zbdent]

9. Rather interesting - article doesn't mention that the family was

almost always at Church on Sunday - yet this article says this:

"She's the kind of person that likes to make trouble about everything," said ex-neighbor Maria Garcia, 39.

Isn't the NY Daily News a right-wing? (Well, if they call the Times a "liberal" paper . . .)

[Yollam]

10. Mentally ill or not, she murdered her kids, I hope they lock her up...

...and throw away the key. I don't mind them calling her a monster- she is one, every bit as much as George Bush is.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but that is no way to show love for your kids. Put her in the same cell with Andrea Yates and let them watch videos of their own kids all day long every day for the rest of their lives.

Sorry, I'm all for psychiatric care and understanding, etc., but you cross a big line when you murder someone, particularly a kid.

[Bridget Burke]

23. You really don't understand very much, do you?

Who the hell is Paula Yates?

[Yollam]

26. Oh crap, it was Andrea Yates, right.

My mistake.

And yes, when it comes to child-killers, I'm a total neanderthal. No interest in understanding the murderer at all. Lock'em up.

[LostinVA]

16. Those epileptics? Demon possessed.

Same thing, Yollam. Psychosis is an illness, not a personality disorder. I hope no one close to you ever suffers from something like this, because it is almost unbearable to watch a loved one suffer so.

[Yollam]

19. As long as they don't kill anyone, I wish them the best.

I hope they get treatment.

[Bridget Burke]

38. Andrea Yates will probably be "locked up" the rest of her life.

Either in prison or under psychiatric care.

Unfortunately, human beings do kill their children. It is rare, but does not make them "monsters." But when fathers do the killing it's not as newsworthy--because it's not as rare.

[Yollam]

42. That's probably a legitimate gripe.

The way the news media treats female killers as opposed to male killers, pretty white female crime victims as opposed to average/ethnic/male crime victims is totally different, and it shouldn't be.

I personally don't think these women are any worse monsters than the men out there who have done similar things to kids.

They're all filth to me. I'm stressed out, dirt-broke not a dime to my name, and I would NEVER hurt my kids. PERIOD.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmowreader]

28. I'd like to see if there were parallels between the Yates case and this

Andrea Yates I can almost understand. I can almost forgive Andrea. Jeebus forced her into murdering her five children.

Jeebus being different from Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace. He's kinda like Satan's crazy half-brother who likes to dress up in robes and mislead people.

Jeebus told Rusty Yates to live simply so Rusty sold his family's home and moved them into a Greyhound bus. Jeebus told Rusty to be fruitful and ignore the doctors who told him to never impregnate his wife again because she was gonna snap if he did. Jeebus did all this shit to Andrea...then when Andrea snapped and drowned her children, all of a sudden she's an ogre.

Why the hell can't we put Jeebus on the stand as a co-defendant? He's as guilty as Andrea was in this case.

Jesus would have looked at Andrea's sorry mental state and told Rusty, "you have fulfilled God's commandment and have earned your mansion in Heaven, now please go get a vasectomy because if you get Andrea pregnant again she's probably going to buy a gun."

Now what's the deal with Paula Mendez? Looks like her husband sent her to a place where living expenses were low, he went to a place where pay was high (the South is full of businesses with "Wire Money to Mexico Cheap!" signs in the window; it is very common for a Mexican man to take care of his family by having them live in a place where the cost of living is low while he works in a place where pay is high), and Jeebus told her that her husband was getting ready to dump her and take the kids away so she better do something to keep that from happening. Yup, that Jeebus fucker again. Someone really needs to do something about that evil bastard.

[bloom]

31. Seems to that men who kill their kids are not generally called "monsters"

I think the news does act with more shock and outrage when women commit violence.

[mongo]

40. Wow. You can turn anything into "oppression"

Murderous men get called monsters too

Thousands Attend Murdered Brooklyn Girl's Wake

By ELIZABETH SOLOMONT - Special to the Sun
January 17, 2006

Family, friends, and thousands of strangers yesterday attended the wake of Nixzmary Brown, the 7-year-old Brooklyn girl who allegedly was beaten and killed last week by her abusive stepfather.

<snip>

"I'm a stepfather myself," Hector Rodriguez, 32, who traveled to Manhattan from Allentown, Pa., said. "That's not a stepfather, that's a monster."


http://www.nysun.com/article/25971?page_no=1

[bloom]

41. At least the story is quoting someone

instead of just having it be the reporters who are labeling the murderer.


I noticed that case when I was looking at recent stories about murderers.

This was one thing that came up:

"Rodriguez’s Lawyer Upset at Interview"

"...The lawyer then pulled out his ace in the hole. Instead of arguing whether or not Rodriguez killed the girl, he is most likely going to claim that his client was only one of many folks who contributed to Nixzmary’s death. He will state that while Rodriguez may have been the hand that struck the final blow, that her mother, the school, the ACS and police are also culpable in the death of Nixzmary Brown. Instead of trying to prove innocence, he will spread the blame to as many others, while at the same time most likely painting his client as a man from a horrible background who never knew learned how to handle the struggles of life.

While I have no doubt about any of these things, it does not excuse the fact that this man, not the police, ACS, or even the mother who say by and watched, were the ones who allegedly slammed her head into the faucet, causing her death."

http://www.crimesceneblog.com/?cat=23


Feminists were also blamed for that one. :crazy:

http://www.insulted.org/2006/january/maggie_blames_feminists_for_nixzmary_browns_death/index.php

[bloom]

33. Cop who "Had to Kill Someone" was a consummate professional.

From same paper:

"Laura Toro was shaken as she relayed the news to a neighbor: Her husband, a veteran Bronx cop, "had to shoot someone."
What she didn't know at the time was that the news would get even worse - the man shot by Officer Alfredo Toro was an off-duty cop

Neighbors in his quiet community, a favorite of cops and retired officers, called Toro - the father of two sons, Kealen, 8 and Matthew, 3 - a devoted family man who didn't let the work of putting criminals behind bars jade him.

"They're a wonderful family," said neighbor Marijo Doedee, 39. "My heart is breaking for them. I can't imagine what they are going through."

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/387027p-328332c.html


He killed an off duty cop - but what a great guy!!!!!

[ieoeja]

43. "children found dead in home; mother held"

"LONGWOOD - Three children were found dead under a bed in their home Tuesday, after their mother was arrested in North Carolina and told police she killed them."

source: http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/12/State/3_children_found_dead.shtml


Admits killing her children, led the cops to where the bodies were hidden, but headline doesn't even say this woman "killed" the children, only that she is being held.

[petronius]

49. Did you read that article?

What in it gave you the impression that "great guy" and "consummate professional" are untrue?

[bloom]

50. They may be no more untrue

than that the "Monster" in question was a "great friend" to somebody and a "consummate professional" of some other thing...

or the cop could be called a "monster" for going off and killing another cop.

The writer could have said he was a "great guy" who turned into a "monster"...

It's not that difficult to call people different things - depending on what you want to call them.


The point is - the OP wasn't written like it was supposed to be an opinion piece. But sure - if you're quoting people - it might just depend on who you want to quote. This "monster" piece wasn't quoting anyone - as far as I could tell.

[bloom]

34. Lancaster murderer not "labeled" - "stated he 'hopes she died.'"

BLOOMSBURG, Pa. (AP) - A man with a history of domestic violence fatally shot his son and stepson while they slept and critically wounded his wife at a motel, state police said...

Dick, who was married three times, had a long history of violence against women and children, according to court documents. His wife, ex-wife and a former girlfriend all had obtained protection-from-abuse orders against him, dating to 1993."

Jan 25, 2006 10:44 AM EST

http://ap.lancasteronline.com/4/pa_motel_deaths


Factually based reporting.


On Edit - the Newsday version is basically the same:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-motel-deaths,0,409832.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[ieoeja]

44. "Mother charged with murder, arson in fire that killed two kids"

"MIDLAND, N.C. - The mother of two children killed in a fire this week was charged Friday with first-degree murder, arson and drug offenses, authorities said."

source: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/13622868.htm


Again, avoids calling this woman a killer.

[bloom]

35. Father who smothered children - "stoic"

PHILADELPHIA - Two baby sisters died together one night in their bed, in a room shared by their teenage parents and a 9-year-old aunt.
An autopsy showed they were suffocated, but no one was arrested for nine years, not until two infant boys died mysteriously.

The boys' deaths were initially attributed to pneumonia or sudden infant death syndrome, but police revisited all four cases after learning of a common link -- all four children had the same father.

Robert Morris, now 29, went on trial Monday in the deaths of the four children, who ranged in age from 24 days to 18 months. He was arrested in March 2004, three months after the last baby died.

"He didn't want any (other) men around his babies," Cameron said.

A stoic Morris stared straight ahead, avoiding eye contact with anyone in the courtroom, as the lawyers took turns describing him.

Tuesday, January 24, 2006

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/national/s_416554.html

[ieoeja]

45. "Women Who Kill Their Children"

"According to the American Anthropological Association, more than 200 women kill their children in the United States each year. Three to five children a day are killed by their parents. Homicide is one of the leading causes of death of children under age four, yet we continue to "persist with the unrealistic view that this is rare behavior," says Jill Korbin, expert on child abuse, who has studied mothers who killed their children."

source: http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/mother_killers.htm


Nothing in this article about these women being "monsters". Just the opposite, in fact. Paints this as far more common among women than most people think.

[bloom]

46. RE: "Three to five children a day are killed by their parents."

Homicide is the leading cause of injury deaths among infants (under one year of age) in the United States.2 Infants are most likely to be killed by their mother during the first week of life but are more likely to be killed by a male (usually their father or stepfather) thereafter.3 Half of all infant homicides occur by the fourth month of life, and the risk of infant homicide is highest on the day of birth. Homicide risk is greater in the first year of life than in any other year of childhood before age 17.4

Research studies of infant death data drawn from multiple agency records (such as police or social service records) indicate that the actual rate of infant deaths attributable to substantial abuse or neglect of infants and children up to four years old is more than twice as high as the official rates reported in death certificate data.5 Better reporting of the circumstances surrounding infant fatalities would improve the quality of death certificate records. Studies have also indicated that a substantial but uncertain number of unreported infant homicide deaths may occur among very young infants, particularly those infants for whom no birth or death certificates are found, such as those who are born with no trained attendants and not in a clinical setting.6

Key risk factors associated with infant homicides focus on the circumstances surrounding the birth of the child. Among the homicides on the first day of life, 95 percent of the victims were not born in a hospital.7 Other important maternal risk factors include a second or subsequent infant born to an unmarried teenage mother (19 years of age or younger); no prenatal visit before the sixth month of pregnancy or no prenatal care; a history of maternal mental illness; a mother with 12 or fewer years of education; and premature birth (gestation of less than 28 weeks).8 There is a notable absence of data on risk factors associated with males, either biological fathers or others, reflecting the frequency of father data missing on birth certificates.

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/72InfantHomicide.cfm

That is about what I would have expected. That the most typical deaths of children by their mothers - occurs soon after birth - rather than later. That more of the deaths of older children are by the fathers. (The mother/father ratio is each app. 30% - with other male family members accounting for most of the rest). IOW - murders of children by mothers at this age by this "monster" are more unusual than similar murders by fathers.


Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2002 --

31% were killed by fathers
30% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
6% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers
Of those children killed by someone other than their parent, 82% were killed by males.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm
--------------------------------

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

Victim/offender relationship - Offenders
Family
Male Female
70.3% 29.7%

Victim/offender relationship - Offenders
Infanticide
Male Female
61.6% 38.4%

-------------------------------

[htuttle]

36. WE'RE ALL MONSTERS KILLING OUR GRANDCHILDREN

...if we keep living the way we currently do.

It's just easier to ignore, because we're doing it slower, but we're killing them with pollution, global warming effects, and nasty authoritarian governments just the same.

Just saying.