You guys are amazing to me !!

[stop_the_madness]

I have only been here at DU for a short time and after this post; I may not be here much longer. I have been a Democrat my entire life. I have either voted or campaigned for Democrats since I was 8 years old. What the hell happened to this party? I sit here in awe as I read some of these posts you guys make.

I guess my first question would be where the hell do you all get these ideas of yours? I mean you guys will believe anything that you hear on Air America, Prison Planet, or Daily KOS even if the content is so far out there. Listening to Randi (DU Goddess) Rhodes yesterday and I turned it off when she started talking about her thong underwear. I mean here we are with the Alito situation and she wants to talk about her thongs? I believe Air America and the other so called "Liberal" media have played all of you like a stringed quartet.

On another note, why is everybody so consumed with hate for Bush? Ok, I will agree he was selected in 2000, and yup I pissed to no end. But I got over it and tried harder in 2004 to bring a Democrat back into o the White House. Unfortunately that didn't happen, the King was back in the castle. Did he "steal" this election? I don't believe that he did steal it. I think that they had a perfect plan in 2004. They take issues that are the most important to their base and put them on the ballot (Gay Marriage). Please don't send the "I SAW THE HACK" article to me, it is nothing but rubbish.

Bottom line is I think all you guys give this administration too much damn credit. He is as stupid as a damn door knob. You have lost all direction because of the blind hate for this man, and the people he represents. I was mad too at first but what am I to do? I will try harder this November and in 2008. If we lose again, so be it. But if we win, then I have succeeded!!


But if you guys continue down the same whiney hate filled path that you are currently on, we will NEVER have any body in Washington that represents us in the White House. So get over this all consuming hate for these people and get back to what is most important....bringing a Democrat back into the White House. Sorry if I pissed anybody off. But I just had to get this off my chest.

If I get banned ...so be it.

Peace and Love to you all

[Bill McBlueState]

1. whatever merit your points may or may not have

Whatever merit your points may or may not have, nobody's going to pay much attention to someone who joins a community only to start trashing it less than two weeks later.

[FlaGranny]

56. Hey fellas - those of you are

are making the cracks about this poster - DON'T YOU REMEMBER that five years ago many of us would have had the same reaction to this place?

[magnetism]

176. Your logic

will go unnoticed.

:shrug:

[tanyev]

2. Uh....thanks for the Peace and Love.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. I think a DLC sponsored newsgroup would suit you better.

Does anybody know of any good DLC sponsored newsgroup?

[MrBenchley]

12. I think DU fits him just fine....

But it's always nice to see the loony left drawing up their enemies lists and and trying to purge people from the party they hate so much.

[mdmc]

18. peace

thanks for your post..

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. Oh, so now I'm the loony left?

You're in big trouble if you think I'm the loony left. Why should it surprise you that this newsgroup might attract someone with Centrist-interests, who can also get frustrated by learning how the system doesn't work.

Personally, if I believed as the new poster believed, I would be thankful to find a newsgroup that was more in line with my way of thinking. If you don't agree, why don't you engage the poster in a conversation of LIHOP or MIHOP, or Sibel Edmonds or any of the other myriads of gems that we take here as fact and that the poster probably never heard of.

G'head. I dare you.

[MrBenchley]

37. Jeeze, if you think the DLC is an enemy

I can't think of a better description.....

"any of the other myriads of gems that we take here as fact"
That Is a big fucking laugh...this is a board that routinely pimps for screwloose fuckwits like Noam Chomsky and Ron Paul, while pretending people like Hillary Clinton and John Kerry are "fascist corporowhores".... Just look back through the Alito folder and notice how often the Democrats singled out for abuse were those who voted both against Machine Gun Ammy and against cloture.

Even funnier, go through any of the DLC-bashing threads and notice how often those singled out for abuse ARE NOT PART OF THE DLC.

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. Or you can go the other way.

I'm having a discussion with someone else who is blaming Clinton for allowing open trade with China, for NAFTA and all the other half-brained programs that were pushed by the DLC. Too many DLCers are also in favor of the Iraq war.

You know the difference between Chomsky and the DLC? The DLC has mass mainstream appeal, and in a world where the media is corporately owned, what does that tell you?

There's anothing thing about Chomsky and DU, if things are too extreme, I tend to tune it out precisely because I know that I can't communicate it to people who are limited by whatever they hear in the mainstream. Get it? This newsgroup is the only place for these people to talk freely, and sometimes what they have to say is two years ahead of the mainstream press.

[MrBenchley]

50. That IS rich....

The difference between Chomsky and the DLC is that Chomsky is a tedious crackpot who's in bed with the crowd that denies the Holocaust occured, and who made excuses for Pol Pot long after the world knew what a butcher he was. If you want to climb into bed with such a specimen, feel free.

"The DLC has mass mainstream appeal, and in a world where the media is corporately owned, what does that tell you?"
That anybody pretending the DLC is the enemy is ridiculously out of touch with reality.

[The Backlash Cometh]

65. Well, there, you found me out on one level.

Four years on DU and I don't even know who Chomsky is. So much for your claim that his views are prevalent on this newsgroup. I'm probably confusing him with someone else.

And, sorry, but Lieberman exemplies the DLC. Clinton was also on that road. Pro-Iraq War, Pro, "I'll die for Israel" views, Pro free trade, Pro Republican Lite.

[MrBenchley]

75. LOL....

"Lieberman exemplies the DLC"
No shit. Lieberman has a rating from the ADA of 76. He's pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-gay rights, pro-civil rights, pro-workers' rights, pro-gun control, pro-education, and pro-corproate regulation. He's walloping his prospective Republican opponent and has a 70% approval rating among all Connecticut voters.

[The Backlash Cometh]

91. And none of those things he's in favor of, has any chance of

passing in a Republican controlled government. How incredibly convenient. Man really knows how to stick his neck out for his principles, doesn't he?

[Name removed]

103. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. The DLC IS the enemy. They have fucked this party up.

They need to start their own party and leave MINE alone. They can have their "sensible center" policies. JUST LEAVE! Get out. If they don't like the party because it leans left...TOO FUCKING BAD! It's OUR party, not THEIRS.

[MrBenchley]

70. Bullshit.

And the far left has it's own party, the Greens. Of course, they're n othing but a Repuyblican dirty trick, and toxic to voters.

[The Backlash Cometh]

111. How odd, since what the Greens stand for, is just off radar as what

Lieberman stands for. Hmm... Oh, that's right, the only difference is that the other side of Lieberman appeals to Republicans too.

[MrBenchley]

118. That's not so odd....

The Green party is a Republican dirty trick...and toxic to voters.

[The Backlash Cometh]

124. Is that the DLC conspiracy theorist line?

I've met Green party members. They are ex-Liberal Democrats who were pro-environment and anti-corporation. They have good sound beliefs, just not any belief in the Democratic Party to represent them.

[MrBenchley]

128. No, that's actual fact

The Green party is a pile of shit. They couldn't even get enough signatures to put their presidential candidate on the NY state ballot in liberal New York City, although the Socialst Workers party made it handily.

[The Backlash Cometh]

133. Have no time reference for when they tried to run in NY. 2004?

If it was after 2000, then it would explain why no one wanted to help them. But I can't imagine that a Wall-Street lovin city and State would help out a pro-environment, anti-corporation party.

However, if you're talking about pre-2000, then I have this to say about them, at least they knew how to vote as a party. Like it or not, they kept Lieberman from being Vice-President. Hey, maybe they were onto something?

[MrBenchley]

147. IN other words, the Greens are nothing but a GOP dirty trick

[The Backlash Cometh]

159. Ewwww, look how you spread the slime so easily.

You got a problem with the Greens, eh? Well, I suspect that the DLC has done as much damage to the Democratic cause over a period of time, as the Greens did that one time in 2000. You know what the difference is? The Greens learned from their mistake and are willing to work with us now, while DLCers are still trying to be an oligarchy within the party.

[samhsarah]

160. Hold up a second here...

I'm no fan of the Green Party, mostly because of that Ralph Nader shit in 2000, but are you really gonna sit there and try to make the point that the DLC isn't bad for the country, but the Green Party is? Last time I checked, Greens aren't bending over and pissing themselves trying to get in good with the American Nazi Party. Now THAT is toxic.

[Sterling]

167. Maybe he knows someone whose job dpends on a DINO?

It's a small minority that defends the status quo here, generally those people have a personal interest in defending the current situation. Fuck em, their numbers are dying out.

[Marie26]

164. But doesn't every party have diversity?

From far-left (liberal), to centrist (DLC), to conservative (Murtha). The Republicans have the same spectrum on their side from "RINOS" to super-conservative. If we start kicking people out of the party, there may not be many Democrats left. And the Democratic Party would become even more powerless. IMO, the thing to do is try to form a coalition between all the different wings in order to create a united effort. Clinton was good at that, the Republicans (till lately) have been very good at presenting that "united front". That's why they won elections. All this in-fighting between Democratic groups seems counter-productive to me.

[Clark2008]

57. Well, actually, given how much money they've been given

by corporations, H. Clinton and Kerry ARE corporate whores.

Now, is that their fault or the fault of a broken electoral system? That's the question.

[MrBenchley]

58. Says it all....

[Clark2008]

74. See, as a blue voter in a red state, I still have doubts

as to why those 19 voted for cloture yesterday.

We mobolized - because even moderate DUers are, for the most part, pro-choice and anti-expanded executive powers. We faxed, we called, we emailed and all our pleas didn't mean bupkus to those 19 red-state Dem senators.

My personal opinion is that they voted the way in which they did, not because they were red staters, but because they are beholden to conservative corporations and not to the party base.

Most Americans, period, don't want expanded executive privledge and believe abortion should be legal (though many believe, in the red states, it should be limited), so it wasn't that they were scared they'd be voted out, necessarily. I think they were scared of losing their gravy train.

Kerry and H. Clinton, however, are still beholden to many corporations, but have a bit more leverage because they happen to be in two very blue states. They can flip off a corporation or two and still be the favorites because they'll still have tons of money to run their campaigns. Not true of the red-state Dems.

[MrBenchley]

78. As a blue voter in a blue state, I don't....

There wasn't an upswell in public opinion against Alito...and if you want to know why, I suggest you take a couple of pages of the GD:Alito" folder and count how many threads there were attacking Machine Gun Sammy versus how many were attacking Democrats.

"Most Americans, period, don't want expanded executive privledge and believe abortion should be legal"
You'll notice that the DLC opposed Alito...which didn't stop them from being vilified on these pages.

[Clark2008]

82. I didn't say the DLC didn't. In fact, I didn't mention them at all.

I said that MODERATE Democrats (the DLC isn't necessarily moderate. They're more an arm to rake in corporate financing) were against those two issues.

My point in the above post is to show that red state Dems seem to be more beholden to corporations than their base because they don't have the mechanisms in place to garner finanical support that the blue state Dems do. Blue state Dems have more access to liberal corporations, wealthier liberals and media favorability. Red state Dems don't have those accesses because our corporations and media are too conservative here and, as a fact, we don't have as much wealth in the red states.

[MrBenchley]

85. Democratic Senators also tend to represent their constituents

Do you really think there was much public uproar about Alito in Nebraska or West Virginia?

[Clark2008]

101. Actually, there was.

Maybe not Nebraska, but in WVa., yes, given how shoddy the Bush Administration has been treating miners with their lack of federal oversight into mine safety.

And, I'm SURE there was uproar in Louisiana because of Katrina and Arkansas because Arkansas is nearly blue (it's a deep, deep purple).

I'm guessing most of their constituents don't want to give the president - any president, but particularly this one, who is at 39 percent - any extended powers given how awful the miners and Katrina victims have been treated.

[MrBenchley]

116. Did you see Landrieu's statement?

It didn't seem unreasonable to me...

http://landrieu.senate.gov/scotus/alito2.cfm

[Clark2008]

127. Doesn't seem reasonable to me.

This country is headed toward fascist unitary executive control - it's her job to know that (I wish more average people understood that, but they don't; however, SHE has no excuse, given her position), so, no, her reasoning not to shut the Senate down is no reasonable excuse to me.

They should have shut it down. They should have filibustered. They should have flexed some fucking muscle and STOOD UP for something, en masse.

I used to think that the media's reporting that the Democratic Party stands for nothing was inaccurate, because I'd seen such great solutions provided by Wesley Clark - particularly his Real State of the Union speech yesterday - and John Kerry's proposals for child health care and John Edwards' for combatting poverty. I thought the media was just blustering more White House spin.

But, after yesterday, it saddens me to admit that the Democratic Party is rudderless. It's not a matter of "lock-step" voting, but in not recognizing the horrid path this country is taking under BushCo. The Democrats - most of whom did not vote for Alito - should have taken the only route afforded to them by parlimentary rule as the minority to protect us from fascism.

She didn't.

I don't dislike Mary - never have - and, because I live in a red state, I give her pass when most DUers won't, but her complicity yesterday was NOT reasonable. It was cowardly.

[MrBenchley]

131. Again, those seemed like good reasons to me

I'm not going to sit around and have a two minutes' hate against Byrd or Landrieu because they did something I disagree with.

It's not that the party is rudderless...it's that we do have a big tent with a wide variety of views ranging from left to right. They've filibustered successfully when they have an issue that resonated with the American people like ANWR does--and Machine Gun Sammy did not.

[Clark2008]

135. I agree with the big tent, theorhetically, but I don't agree with

pitching the democracy in hopes that one is "seen" as moderate.

I understand why Landrieu and Byrd need to be seen that way, given their states' make-up, but not voting for cloture isn't "moderate" or "liberal." It's American - the protection of the smidgen of the minority of the voters (49 to 51 percent, if you believe the 2004 election results) from the impositions of the majority. That's American.

I do think Machine Gun Sammy wasn't well-liked and the Dems would have been A-OK with their base and their swing-voting constitutents.

I still contend it was their corporate sponsors who wanted the "judge."

[MrBenchley]

148. Where do you draw the line?

They don't come much further right wing than John Murtha...but I don't want to see him pitched out of the tent.

[Marie26]

170. Their true "constituents" are the campaign donors

That's the problem. Unless we do something about the corruption & payoffs in Washington, none of our Congressmen will care what normal constituents say. They are completely beholden to the special interests & corporations that finance their campaign. Voter apathy is another big problem - most people are so turned off to politics that "special interests" get more attention because they at least will vote in primaries. Nothing's going to change as long as it remains so expensive to run for office. I think we've got to go to publically-financed campaigns.

[Sterling]

It's true, so yes it does "say it all"

Go ahead and deny it. I would love to see that.

[Sterling]

143. pretending people like Hillary Clinton and John Kerry are "fascist corporo

Pretending? Oh I fucking wish.

[MrBenchley]

146. Yup....pretending....

and not in a convincing manner, either.

[Sterling]

171. Sorry son, no pretend going on here.

Maybe you should educate yourself about where the money comes from, and a lot of other things.....

[MissWaverly]

172. I too think of myself as a centrist

and it burns me up when someone says that we support that the election was rigged due
to what we heard, I saw that the machine that I voted on default to George Bush 5 times,
those of us who belonged to DU at the time, typed our fingers off posting statitical
analysis of what we saw on the ground in our states and had downloaded from our
Board of Elections, we post factual articles from major papers across the country
including LA Times, Washington Post, NY Times, the Toledo Blade and now somebody
is going to accuse us of being Rhandiheads, it's ridiculous.

[ronnie624]

117. And its always "nice" to see the wing nuts

gibbering and prattling and making no sense whatsoever.

[Norquist Nemesis]

152. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[NoPasaran]

22. Sorry

"Good" and "DLC" are mutually exclusive concepts.

[rpgamerd00d]

4. Personally, I agree with you. But please remember, Liberals are...

... naturally whiney.

You get used to it over time and learn to ignore the really whiney people.

There are plenty of us here that have a clue and don't believe every stupid-ass tin-foil-hat-story we read on the Internet, and who know how to fight without resorting to "They are bad, vote for us!"

[LostinVA]

165. Liberals are "naturally whiny"? WTF?

I think you're confusing questioning and a refusal to march in lockstep with "whiny."

[rpgamerd00d]

191. No, I simply read this board. There are a lot of whiny posts.

Denying this would be silly.

[New Earth]

179. is this a "to-the-rescue" maneuver?

just sayin :blush: :shrug:

[Bonobo]

185. "Libruls are whiney." O'Reilly couldn't have said it more eloquently...

[Doctor_J]

5. OKbye

:eyes:

[LostinVA]

166. Yup... transparent as glass

[ret5hd]

6. so, you're telling me...

that Randi DOESN'T wear thong underwear?

other than that, can't say as I'll be missing your company very much.

[hatrack]

7. Wow, I didn't know Sherwin-Williams made brushes that broad!

Have a nice day!

[Canuckistanian]

10. LOL!

Yes, that post certainly put us into our rightful pigeonholes, didn't it?

[4 t 4]

17. Whaaaaaaaaa

Gore won in 2000 the computers were hacked in 2004 remember you were told this 20years from now when it's in all the history books!!

[frankly_fedup2]

72. Since I'm a whinnnnneeeerrrrrr maybe I shouldn't tell the truth and

just blame everybody else for everything that Bush does wrong. No, wait, that would make me more like a Republican . . . a member of the party of "victims." A member of a party who publicly talk about killing people and then say, "Oh, that was just a joke." Talk about dry humor. . . not funny.

Well I think that a perfect example why we should not vote using computers was proven by what happened the day the Medicare Reform started for the elderly. It has not only been confusing, but there were so many "computer glitches" that it was tossing out every 6th person from those who had been joining. I haven't followed up so I cannot honestly say whether they have got it fixed or not. Just being honest here.

We need paper voting and paper counting so we can have a paper trail. (sniff, sniff). :argh:

[robbedvoter]

62. Best answer of the thread!

:thumbsup:

[SammyWinstonJack]

80. LOL

:rofl:

[MrBenchley]

8. Myself, I think the forum is being ratfucked

by some people from third parties (the greens and libertarians) whose own parties don't amount to a pimple ofn the ass of the body politic.

I think the funniest thing is to hear people who are carrying on about how much they hate hate hate Democrats suddenly begin whining that Democrats don't seem to give a shit about what they want.

And of course, you will notice that nearly EVERY Democrat that comes under attack by name here is:
--up for re-election in 2006, and
--beating his or her prospective Republican opponent six ways from Sunday.

Don't despair....there are lots of others who agree with you.

[MakeItSo]

13. electronic vote fraud is real, and the dems will NEVER win

unless the problem is resolved. Until it is, democracy is dead in the US.

[MrBenchley]

20. If you want to give up, then get out of the goddamn way

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. I'm sick as shit of that dumb ass remark

from the "sensible center" Democrats. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if it wasn't for the DLC crowd. Stop telling people they are giving up just because they state FACTS you don't like. If you can't see that the elections were stolen and evoting is why...THEN YOU GET OUT OF THE GODDAMN WAY WHILE WE WORK TO GET RID OF THE FUCKING MACHINES! Who died and made you the spokeperson for the Democratic party? Al Frum?

[MrBenchley]

42. Ask me some time what I'm sick of....

I'm sick of this constant defeatism. I'm tired of attacks on actual Democrats by the loony left.

[in_cog_ni_to]

63. LOONY LEFT??? I knew it wouldn't take long for the TRUE COLORS to come out

The LOONY LEFT? You means the loonies who gave YOU a minimum wage, infrastructure, Social Security, Unemployment Compensation, Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Medicare, Unions and safety in the work place? THAT LOONY LEFT? You should be ashamed. The DLCers need to start their own freakin' party, The Sensible Center Republican-Lite Party and get the hell out of MY party. WE HAVEN'T CHANGED! We are the same LOONY LEFT we've always been. The DLCers have fucked the party up.

[MrBenchley]

68. What a pantload...

It was mainstream Democrats that gave America a minimum wage, infrastructure, Social Security, Unemployment Compensation, Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Medicare, Unions and safety in the work place....

Look at last year's anti-Iraq rally and how ANSWER fucked it up for the participants. That's the sort of crap the loony left has given us in my lifetime.

"The DLCers need to start their own freakin' party"
The DLCers HAVE the Democratic party. The loony left has its own Green party, and it's as appealing to voters as an onion fart.

"WE HAVEN'T CHANGED! We are the same LOONY LEFT we've always been."
Yep. The ones who ran down Bobby Kennedy in 1968, who ran down Jimmy Carter in 1980, who ran down Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996, who ran down Al Gore in 2000, and who ran down John Kerry in 2004. The ones attacking Democrats now.

[in_cog_ni_to]

81. Bullshit. The DLCers DO NOT have the party, you just think they do.

They need to start their damn party instead of fucking up OURS. Should I take another poll on how many DUers support the DLC? TRUST ME....YOU DO NOT HAVE THE PARTY. The DLCers have the corporate media who caters to their talking heads because they KNOW the DLC will bring down the party...and they have. Having the corporate media on your side distorts the truth. They are, after all, a WH propaganda machine. How many times have we seen Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, Sam Seder, Thom Hartmann, ect... on the corporate owned media? RARELY! Instead, we're spoon fed Lieberman, Biden, Warner and their ILK....DLCers. If true LIBERALS were given the face time those useless so-called Dems get, the Dem party would be VERY different.

What a crock. The DLC HAS THE PARTY. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MrBenchley]

83. Sure they do....

"Should I take another poll on how many DUers support the DLC?"
Even funnier, let's count the number of threads by DUers pissing and moaning about the DLC controlling the party.

"How many times have we seen Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, Sam Seder, Thom Hartmann"
I guess I missed what elections those folks won.

By the way, you DO know Biden's not in the DLC, don't you?

[in_cog_ni_to]

88. People piss and moan about the DLCers because those are the

people who the media puts on the air ALL THE TIME. Now people have to be elected to office before they can be on corporate owned media? Interesting.:eyes: Biden is a repuke lite. If he's not a DLC member, he should be.

[MrBenchley]

89. In other words....

The loony left hates Democrats....and facts don't matter to them nearly as much as their own lynch mob mentality.

[in_cog_ni_to]

93. No. In other words the DLCers have fucked up the Democratic Party.

It's the truth and they own it.

[MrBenchley]

95. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

I don't think the Democratic party is fucked up....

[in_cog_ni_to]

97. And THAT is the kind of snarky assed remark that started this conversation

Of course you wouldn't think the Democratic Party is fucked up because you like the far right position direction it has taken the party :eyes: People need a CHOICE. The repuke party and the DLC gives no one a choice.

[MrBenchley]

99. And the only kind your response deserved....

"People need a CHOICE. The repuke party and the DLC gives no one a choice."
Good trhing there's the Green party...oh that's right...voters everywhere think the Green party is a piece of shit.

[in_cog_ni_to]

105. WTF does the Green Party have to do with the Democratic Party?

Hello! NOTHING! My point remains. The People need a CHOICE. The repuke party and the DLC gives no one a choice. That's a fact, whether you like it or not.

OK...next snarky assed remark. :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

121. Jeeze, don't cry to me because you can't follow your own argument.

"The People need a CHOICE."
The Green party is offering them one...and the people, mysteriously, don't give a shit.

Meanwhile, DEMOCRAT Joe Lieberman is coasting toward victory in November, 2006, as is just about every other DEMOCRAT singled out for the loony left's daily two minutes' hate here.

[in_cog_ni_to]

126. No. The DLCers can leave my party.

They've done their damage, now they can leave.

Lieberman's ass is grass in '06.

If you have never heard of the name Edward Lamont, then you are about too because he is all set to challenge Joe Lieberman for his Seante seat this year.
Lamont, a former Greenwich cable executive said in a statement today that he will challenge Lieberman because Joe has a lot to answer for in his support of the war in Iraq.
Lamont said that "He, (Joe), has been a little too close to the president on the war. I have no problem supporting the president when he's right, but I have no trouble criticizing him when he's wrong".
With regards to the "daunting" task that he has in front of him, Lamont said "I have to be blunt. I suppose their are challengers all over the country asking whether they should be challenging or giving the incumbant a free pass". And the polls show that Lieberman is much more popular with Republicans than with Democrats, plus I feel that he's been too outspoken in his stay the course in Iraq stratedy".

That quote makes my point BEAUTIFULLY. Liebermann is more popular with REPUBLICANS. Get it?

[MrBenchley]

145. Hahahahaha....

"If you have never heard of the name Edward Lamont, then you are about too "
I'm sure. Guess our loony left has stopped pimping for Lowell Weicker.

"And the polls show that Lieberman is much more popular with Republicans than with Democrats"
In other words, he's got support from the entire state...including 59% of Democrats and 61% of independents. 64% of the state thinks he deserves re-election.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11362.xml?ReleaseID=863

[in_cog_ni_to]

157. But, but, but you accidentally neglected to post the best part of the poll

now, how did that happen? :eyes: In fact, IT'S THE MOST RELEVANT PART OF THE POLL that states what I said. Typical tactic. Hahahahahahahahaha....


Republicans say give Democrat Lieberman another term 75 - 18 percent, while Democrats favor his reelection 59 - 29 percent and independent voters back him 61 - 24 percent, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds

[0007]

84. Yikes!


Another pant-load and without a snicker, holy mackerel

[Hamlette]

90. I used to argue there was no "loony left"

then I found DU. some people here are as blinded by ideology as the neocons are.

It isn't an issue of whether you hate Bush enough or not, it's that spending time on a board dissing him, and most leaders in your own party, is a stupid, silly, counterproductive waste of time.

thanks Mr. Benchley for your wonderful posts. It is refreshing to see some sanity here.

[MrBenchley]

108. You might have noticed

that yesterday there was a thread trying to whip up a two minutes' hate against Charles Schumer....who voted no to cloture and opposes Alito.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=264837

Mysteriosuly, there was little effort from our leftists here to try and whip up that sort of stuff against Republican senators. Wonder why? Me neither.

[Hamlette]

134. I was delighted when they separated the Alito threads

so I didn't have to read them anymore.

Now I wish they would have a separate section for Dem bashing and ban it under General Discussion.

I look to the right and see lock step discipline. Criticism by a republican of another republican is so rare it warrants front page news. Dems do it as a matter of course.

And we wonder why we lose elections.

[MrBenchley]

154. One has to ask, cui bono?

Who gains from threads running down Democrats and urging defeatism? Who benefits from this constant "our party is as bad as theirs" gibberish? Who benefits from "Diebold fixed the polls so there's no use even trying?"

It sure isn't Democrats.

[Sterling]

163. You are right, it is much better to blindly follow

anyone who puts a D by their name, and not question them or attempt to hold them accountable. There are some real douchebags on this board who eat up the staus qou. The D party is dead as a fucking doornail. I am just watching the funeral. It's entertaining at this point in a black humor sort of way.

Were all fucked get used to it. The DLC types in this party have only themselves to blame. Maybe something meaningful will rise from the ashes. I come here less and less because everytime I do I find that a minority of people on this site keep the majority from promoting real change within the party. It is the same within the party itself. It's just too bad so many inoocent people must suffer because a a few blowhard corrupt peole are in control of what would normally be the party that defends the interests of the common citizen.

I think I will just stick to watching the Daily show and Cobert report. It is much less frustrating. DLCers are little more than entertainment these days for people who have very little to laugh at. DLCers are a sick joke and I have finally learned to laugh them off.

[Hamlette]

181. where is it that I said we should blindly follow anyone?

nevermind, I have come to recognize that there are many here on DU who know me better than I know myself.

[Bridget Burke]

109. "Mainstream" then is not the same as "Mainstream" now.

Who would propose & enact programs like Social Security, Civil Rights, etc. nowadays? Those ideas would be considered dangerously radical. Google finds that many sites use "Loony Left." None of them are sites for "moderate Democrats."

We didn't run down Bobby Kennedy in 1968. He was murdered.

[MrBenchley]

123. Guess you weren't around in 1968

The loony left screamed that he was a war mongerer because he wasn't speaking out loudly enough against the war in Viet Nam...and then howled that he was a coward because he only came out against it after Eugene McCarthy had made it safe for him to do so.

[Bridget Burke]

129. I was around in 1968, but I was not a Young Republican.

In fact, I knew a few trust-fund SDS'ers. But most of the people I knew thought RFK was our best hope.

[in_cog_ni_to]

138. LOL...not a young republican.

:rofl: *high five*

[MrBenchley]

150. Sez the guy cheering because Gore lost in 2000 up above....

[MrBenchley]

149. I've never been a Republican

but I know my ass from my elbow...and did even then.

[Sterling]

174. This statement is highly questionable

"but I know my ass from my elbow"

[mtnsnake]

158. I want to thank you, too

for your refreshing posts, MrB.

Just when I think DU has been completely taken over by the loonie radical left extremist whiners, I come across an exchange like this and I smile. Posts like yours have become an island of hope amidst an ocean of tears.

Sometimes I wonder who the bigger enemy is...the rightwing nutjobs or the whiney left radicals who blame everything on voting machines but never seem to have any positive suggestions of their own on how to better the Party.

Keep up the good fight, MrB!

[in_cog_ni_to]

173. "taken over by the loonie radical left extremist whiners" ??? LEAVE

our party! If you don't like it, LEAVE! You can leave our DEMOCRATIC underground board too. It's for DEMOCRATS. D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C underground.

Whiney left radicals? Listen to LIMPBALLS much?

[mtnsnake]

187. Obviously, you are one of those "loonie radical left extremist whiners"

I was talking about or you wouldn't have taken such exception to my post to MrB.

Now, you can kiss my lifelong Democratic ass because it's whiners like you who continuously hijack threads in order to suit your own MO of taking threads that tend to offer helpul suggestions and turning them into threads filled with negativity, hatred, and self-serving delusions of your own warped sense of political grandeur as you only see it.

BTW, I never listen to Limbaugh, but apparently you and half the other hordes of loonie left whining boppers just like you listen religiously to him because it's always YOU who seems to know just what he's talking about on his pathetic shows.

Oh, and the day some punk bopper like you tries to tell me to leave the Democratic Party in order to build your own pathetic self up as some SuperDem is the day that hell freezes over. Now GFY.

[in_cog_ni_to]

190. some punk bopper? Hahahahaha! Oh, my. My son will love that one.

:rofl::rofl: Touched a nerve with the "listen to LIMPBALLS much", eh? We've exposed 2 in one day. That's pretty cool! BTW, Randi Rhodes kicked Limpball's ass in the ratings this month. Too bad.:cry:

WTF are you doing here? This is DEMOCRATIC underground. Your name-calling has exposed you, I hope you realize that.

GFY? Wow!:wow: I'm so upset....Mr. Cheney.:cry:

Feel better now? Got your hatred of Democrats out of your system? GOOD! Leave our party alone.

"Loonie radical left whiners":rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: How old are you? 6? you say? Shouldn't you be in school or do you stay home because they won't let you pray in the classroom?

[mtnsnake]

195. I don't have to "leave your party"

....because you're living in a fantasy world and I'm not. You're as delusional as it gets. "Your party" doesn't exist. I'm a lifelong Democrat and proud of it and whatever the fuck you are is now really making me wonder. The more you go around accusing people of this and that, the more foolish and obvious you make yourself become.

You're either just what I called you...a "loonie radical left extremist WHINER", whose only purpose is to run around twisting your own delusional meanings into other people's posts....or you're someone who's so fucking low, so fucking cowardly, that you have to accuse me of something I'm not from behind the safety of your keyboard, just to cover for your own pathetic political shortcomings. I don't mind being accused of something if it's justified, but when a punk like you accuses me of being associated with Limbaugh or of not being a Democrat, then you've stepped your bounds, you fricken teenybopper puke. I'd love to see you question my political allegiances outside of the safety of your computer room. Punk

[in_cog_ni_to]

201. Punk? Now I'm a punk? my, my, my. Truth touches your nerves, I see.

You're not living in a fantasy world? Puhleeeeze. You insist the DLC is the best thing since sliced bread and I'm delusional? Hahahahaha. Anyone who defends Mr. Benchley and thinks he's the best thing to happen to DU is, uh....repuke-lite/not a Democrat?, shall I say? Your "sensible center" DOES NOT represent this party and if you don't like that too fucking bad. We will eventually get our party back from "you people" and then we can undo all the damage you've done to it.

I suspect you won't be happy until the entire Democratic Party is gone. No abortions-ILLEGAL, no Medicare, no Social Security, Bush spying on us, war after war after war, the poor have died from starving, the corporations controlling our every move, all our children are praying in school, no condoms will ever be available to young people to prevent AIDS, cameras at every corner of the country on every street and in our bedrooms, GPS on our cars....yes indeed. That's the America "I" want to live in!:sarcasm: THAT is what YOUR kind of politics is doing to this country so I suggest you keep your infantile name calling to yourself. Punk.

[frankly_fedup2]

76. Nobody asked you. (nt)

[Le Taz Hot]

200. We all know what you're sick of

we see it in every other thread. I guess I'll never figure out those whose lives are a big giant pissing contest.

I know, I know, "Message deleted."

[Clark2008]

79. Not true.

Harold Ford Jr. is routinely bashed and he's newly running for Senate (not up for re-election of that post) and is barely beating and sometimes barely losing, depending on the poll, to all his prospective Republican opponents.

You need an exclusion for him.

[jn2375]

9. Get over my Bush hatred? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

[havocmom]

11. Nice talking points. Not very original though. Heard that song before

A few million times.

Did you hear the one about projection?

bub-bye

[lonestarnot]

14. fuck this!

[kurth]

15. So... Rush Limbaugh is not a whiner??

He's the PERPETUAL whiner. He whined for EIGHT years about Clinton.

Clinton has been gone for years, and he still whines about Clinton.

[Daylin Byak]

26. You want to know what happened to our party...

It's lost it's way thanks to corprate greed

lost support in the south thanks to the civil rights act of 1964(i'm not againist it, everybody deserves rights) and the religious movement in 1980

Al From founded the DLC in 1984, making what democrats orininally stood for a thing in the past

eversince 2000, we've became spinless.

There, that's what happened to your party.

[Occulus]

139. Corporate greed, but more specifically, corporate personhood.

Something I've noticed: each and every single major issue to progressives is tied to the personhood of the corporation under US law. Every single one.

Revoke corporate personhood and their whole house of cards will crumble. Irrevocably.

It's the keystone in the arch.

[stop_the_madness]

38. Not at all

FAtboy is one of the biggest whiners. Look I am not saying that the repugs are reat or anyhting. But if a team continues to lose , they change their stratagy right? We need to change our damn stratagy.

[New Earth]

178. you mean

*right
*anything
*strategy

Am I missing anything?

[guidod]

189. As you can see I haven't

been here at DU for very long either. I too thought that the liberals here were just as angry and as loud as the repugs, and they are. The repugs anger is nothing more than reactionary. The rage here at DU is caused by open discussion on a wide range of topics. I learn more here at DU than I do by reading any news paper. When's the last time you saw two repugs get together and discuss a political topic, totally disagree with each others views, and then walk away as friends? There's a lot of subdstance here, but don't confuse anger with passion. By the way, welcome to DU. I hope you stick around.

[mdmc]

16. Peace and love to you as well

The DLC has a place at DU, too! Please stay and help shape the discussion!

[gratuitous]

19. I prefer to read these in the original Quisling

Some of the words don't translate very well into English.

[MrBenchley]

31. Speaking of Quisling...

How many umpty-ump posts have there been from our loony left over the past year assuring the rest of us they were going to march away and never have anything to do with the Democrats again....and yet here they still are clogging the forum, running down actual Democrats and pimping for specimens like Ron Paul and Noam Chomsky?

[Webster Green]

21. My hatred for bush is not blind....

There are many great reasons to hate him and his thugs.

Rigging elections is close to the top of my list.

[Canuckistanian]

23. Stick around for a while

You'll find lots of people like yourself. And, you'll find lots NOT like yourself. You can ignore them if you want.

But you've got to understand. Most people here are passionate about their politics. Sometimes it spills over into irrational emotional outbursts.

THIS IS NORMAL.

A belated welcome to DU!
:hi:

[stop_the_madness]

40. Thanks

I heard a lot about this forum.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Not One Thing About My Loathing Is Blind

I'm far too smart, and far too educated to loathe the Silverspoon out of blind hatred. And, i resent any implication on your part that i'm not aware enough to know the difference.

If you would care to get to specifics, and tell ME how i, specifically, am whining and not opining based upon the available information and the application of logic and prior learnings, then i'll listen.

In the meantime, try to tone down the generalizations.
The Professor

[Canuckistanian]

47. No problem.

And don't judge this place by what happened yesterday, either. There were a LOT of people blowing off steam in what seemed to be unproductive ways.

Things will quiet down and we'll all concentrate on what needs to be realistically done.

[H2O Man]

24. Bye.

[txindy]

67. Succint and to the point.

Good time for :popcorn:

[lakeguy]

25. i wish i could get over the "bloodless" coup in 2000 as easy as you have,

but i can't. guess i'm a whiney libural...

[soup]

35. me too.

OP Got over it? Yeah, there's the ticket, forget about it and move on.

Oh, fer cryin (or whining) out loud.:eyes:

[Mad_Dem_X]

53. We have a right to be pissed off!

Look at everything these thugs have done to our country! Practically the whole world hates us. Think of all the people (soldiers, civilians) who have f'ing DIED because of this adminstration. No, I think I will hold on to my rage. It keeps me motivated to try to make things better. I believe our Founding Fathers would expect no less from us than to FIGHT.

[Boojatta]

27. "Bottom line is I think all you guys..."

Whatever comes next is likely to be either an error in your thinking or an uninteresting truth.

Have you considered being more selective in what you read on DU? For example, you can focus on Topic Forums of interest to you. You can put some people on ignore.

Do you realize that if one wishes to extract a single ounce of gold, then in many places one must sift through literally tons of economically low value rocks, minerals, and dirt?

A note on style: perhaps you could have said "Bottom line is I think all you people...." Many of the people who post on DU are women.

[Jersey Devil]

29. Well, I think you are right about your not being here for much longer

I liked this part the best: "I have either voted or campaigned for Democrats since I was 8 years old".

Gee, in my state they let you vote when you are 11. Your state must be much more progressive if they let you vote at 8.

[marylanddem]

30. "whiney hate filled path" or righteous anger?

Personally, I'm mad as hell.

There's a time for peace and love. And there's a time for righteous anger.

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. OMG...you don't think the '04 election was stolen?

:rofl::rofl::rofl: and why is everyone consumed with hate for Bush????? YOU-HAVE-GOT-TO-BE-KIDDING-ME! Let us review, shall we? Besides the man being an ignorant ass who can't put 2 words togethr without screwing it up.....

They IGNORED the warnings of Bin Laden about to strike the U.S. and George proceeded to take his 1 MONTH vacation.

LIES about WMD.

An ILLEGAL invasion of another sovereign nation.

Over 2,200 U.S, soldiers are dead because of LIES.

This administration planned to attack Iraq prior to 911...911 was their excuse.

They outed a covert CIA agent, Valerie Plame. (she was a covert CIA agent investigating the weapons of mass destruction...they had to get rid of her because she caught THEM trying to plant WMD).

Election FRAUD.

They have stolen 3 elections..2000, 2002 and 2004, via evoting machines...they hacked the central tabulators and flipped the votes).

They have been spying on U.S. citizens for the last 5 years!

They trashed the Geneva Conventions and TORTURE detainees.

They torture CHILDREN!!! to make their fathers talk.

They torture WOMEN!!! to make their husbands talk.

They are now trying to make the president, "Adolf George Hitler", DICTATOR, with Unitary Executive power. He will make ALL laws!

They will overturn Roe the first chance they get WHEN ScAlito is confirmed.

Darn near Every republican in Congress is involved in the Abramoff scandal.

They see our CONSTITUTION as "a G-d damn piece of paper" (BUSH said that about MY Constitution!) and have turned it upside down. Watch Al Gore's speech from Monday, Martin Luther King Day.

They have silenced whistle-blowers.

They attack anyone who speaks out against the Bush regime.

They have destroyed the middle class in this country.

They have out sourced all our IT and manufacturing jobs.

They have turned Congress into a useless body of our government.

They give to the rich and take from the poor.

They have implemented a DISASTROUS Medicare Bill written by THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

They are trying to destroy Social Security.

They have given corporations control of our country (THAT is called FASCISM!)

They passed a DISASTROUS Bankruptcy Bill.

The citizens of NOLA (New Orleans, LA.) are STILL suffering from the LACK of Government help.

They have BOUGHT the media and vice versa, which is now nothing but a WH propaganda outlet. Remember Pravda?

We have higher gasoline prices.

We have higher natural gas prices.

Higher insurance premiums.

Higher grocery prices.

They want to illegally search/bug/wiretap our homes with delayed notification for 1 MONTH.

They want Librarians to give them info on what we READ?

The new HD digital TV will give them the POWER to monitor us.

The Pentagon has "lost" TRILLIONS of $$$$$$ and have NO CLUE where it went.

They gave Congress a BOGUS cost of war estimate, KNOWINGLY so they would pass the Iraq War Resolution.

And don't forget the Patriot Act!


WHY ARE WE CONSUMED WITH HATE FOR BUSH???? Good g-d. If we have to tell you, somethings's wrong.:(

[rman]

48. Yeah, 2000 was stolen, but 4 years of bad policies made * so popular

that he didn't have to steal 2004.

I'm not sure if i should cry or laugh over this kind of logic. But it sure smells funny.

[stop the bleeding]

33. Nana na na, Nana na na, Hey hey, Good Bye !!!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

102. Oh, Get Over it already.

:evilgrin:

[Brewman_Jax]

34. If you can't believe your own eyes

then, so be it. Go back to sleep and don't worry about it. :eyes:

[Crankie Avalon]

36. So on a site with 85,000 registrations...

...not every single member is up to your standards? Oh, well. Be prepared to have this feeling come over you whenever you expose yourself to large groups, though.

[underpants]

46. Thoughts, opinions, and ideas wise and otherwise

I think that should be the motto of DU

[aintitfunny]

39. While I can understand your points

they are as one-sided as some of the more extreme positions. Not to mention you are very non-specific about "these ideas of yours". This in general reads like a non-productive rant over generalities with no real solutions to anything.

In on paragraph you tout the "perfect plan' that got shrub re-elected and then in the next paragraph you report that "you guys" give the administration too much credit. Niether statement is wrong - it is just somewhat contradictory, not to mention unhelpful.

I am not a conspiracy theorist regarding the hacking of elections - I do stay way wide open to the possibilities, first as someone who works in the computer software industry - I absolutely know the capabilities and secondly - WHY THE HELL AM I NOT ENTITLED TO KNOW THAT MY VOTE COUNTS WITHOUT QUESTION? Simple question - no rubbish included.

And finally - I don't hate GW Bush. I hate what he is turning my country into. I hate that he has just managed to accomplish on the Supreme Court. I hate the hypocrisy and corruption of the current Republican administration and leadership in Congress. Historically I have never disliked anyone due to party affiliation. This crew is different, and it has little to do with them being of a different party. In fact they are frightening - and if you call standing up and fighting for our convictions and our country a "whiney hate-filled path" then you really don't get it - not at all.

[peacetalksforall]

43. I hope you don't plan to vote on Republican hardware and software

'fixed' by Republican technicians (brought in from Russia and Israel?) with exit polling paid by Republican tv and cable networks who then own the data and enter into adjustments of it with their partners in the WH? I hope you find another source to keep up-to-date on the widest scope of only essential topics without any nonsense.

[timber84]

49. Why don'y you go and read all the "love" that happens on a

daily basis at "freeperville" and then tell me about hate.

[br7598]

51. You're right, Bush is great!

I now see the error of my ways. We should all embrace Bush and support his rancid disassembling of the constitution. It will be better that way because then we won't all seem so mean and angry all the time.

Well, on second thought.....Flag a Freight pal!!!

The Bush crime family is destroying this country brick by brick. You want to go along with Bush and his fascist, nationalistic, psuedo-patriotic method, that's your business.

And for the record, if you don't see the voter fraud going on in Florida and Ohio, you have not done your homework. Spend some time doing some research on the issue. I have, and there is absolutely no doubt that fraud is occuring. I mean come on, 2,000 people in the district, 6,000 votes for Bush. I have been doing the algebra for days now and something just doesnt add up. I just cant put my finger on it. No worries, I know it will come to me eventually. Oh and wow what a turn out Pat Buchanan had in the typically liberal miami. And lets not forget the 22,000 floridians who were not able to vote because their name was similar to a felon somewhere else (90% were confirmed non-felons). They were by the way, paid 4 million to verify the felons list before the election, but they never did. I could go on and on. Do you homework!

And finally, leave Randi's thongs out of this. They have their rightful place in my heart.

[timber84]

52. Welcome to DU br7598

:hi:

[SammyWinstonJack]

107. Hehe!

:evilgrin: Welcome to DU.

[FlaGranny]

54. Sorry you feel that way.

I am one of the original posters on this site, although I don't make a whole lot of posts. You have probably never heard of many of the reasons behind the way we feel here. We have had five years in which we have done extensive reading and research on the Bush family and the Republican party of the past 30 years. Eisenhauer was actually the last Republican president, in my opinion. You would do yourself a great favor to undertake a lot of study. When you think you are reading a post with an outrageous theme, I ENCOURAGE you to do your own research and try to get a background on why people feel the way they do. I used to be just like you. I "saw the light" when I began doing research back in 1999 for the 2000 elections. It will take a lot of time and effort on your part, but if you do it - you also will KNOW. I wish I DIDN'T know what I've learned. I used to feel a hell of a lot safer. This is not the world you think it is. Unfortunately many of our elected leaders don't know the whole story either. Some of them ARE beginning to understand.

[robbedvoter]

55. Try harder in November dear, and harder still after that. Diebold is

ready for fancy strategerists like ya. Sorry Randi's thongs offended ya - I wasn't listening - too busy making phone calls ya know.
I was always wondering : what makes freepers so very proud of their ignorance.
So, maybe you can help me: why is your wilful ignorance of broken electoral system and criminal BFEE makes you so much better than mois?
Huh?


And like someone said, calling 85,000 "you people" denotes a degree of arrogance bordering on delusional.

[0007]

96. I sing along with Randi when she plays, "Bounce Your Boobies"

[frankly_fedup2]

59. I would like to make a suggestion and it's not offensive. You will

not be banned for giving an honest opinion or a statement of disagreement. We are not like Free Republic where everybody has to agree with what everybody else says. They have no debate whatsoever. If you question about anything another poster may post, they go for the jugular faster then you can say "Bush is an idiot" and the man that owns Free Republic will immediately ban you and send you a very nasty email. For example, this post on FR would have you thrown out immediately. Why not give it a try?

Join Free Republic, take this post but just change some of the wording except bring up Rush Limbaugh and say Jerry Falwell, who for example, this past Sunday preached Sunday that studies by the founder of the Oral Cancer Association have shown that oral sex may cause some types of oral cancer. Then he stated that a well-known reporter stated that they needed a good role model to get out and speak out against oral sex. Guess who they thought should do it? Yep, Bill Clinton. Do you want to know why? They claim that President Clinton's actions caused an "epidemic" of oral sex among our middle school and high school-aged kids.

Do you think we should tell them that people had oral sex way before President Clinton's private life was smeared all over the newspapers, talking heads on the news networks, and right-wing hate mongers. Boy that liberal media sure was not doing its job when Clinton "supposedly" endangered this Country when he cheated on his wife. An embarrassing situation since it was made so public. Then they want to ask Clinton questions under oath and he did what every man who has ever cheated on his wife would do . . . lie and say he didn't do it. Wow! HIGH CRIMES against this country going on with President Clinton. Don't you agree?

The Dems seem to have these so-called immoral sex scandals yet the Republicans really have the really life-changing immoral scandals regarding the American People. Just like the Medicare Reform Bill. The Dems were doing everything they could to stop it because they knew that AARP as well as other insurance and pharmaceutical companies were the ones going to profit off of old people. No, no, they said, the Democrats are just so full of hate toward Bush and that is why they do not want this to pass. Then the likes of DeLay and others would add a page or two here or there fulfilling their promises to some big business that supplied them with campaign money and very, very nice gifts; all the while knowing no one will read any of it. Bush will sign it into law because that is what Cheney tells him to do. Also, they have their immoral sex scandals as well; however, their arrogant greed and what they do behind closed doors is deplorable because metaphorically speaking, they are fu**** the American People all over again.

I honestly feel that you have been here during some of our most difficult times. We don't automatically believe everything that comes out of Randi Rhode's mouth (unlike the right who think that Rush Limpballs speaks the Gospel.) I have recordings I have saved of this man stating that the Democrats do not worship the same GOD as the Republicans. WHAT? He's nuts. There is not one show he can get through without saying something absolutely deplorable against the Clintons. Now they are all on Hillary. I say it's because they are afraid of her.

One thing I'd like to mention for any "lurkers" that might be around reading this. Everyone knows that Clinton was impeached because the Republicans had the majority, and with the majority, the articles of impeachment could be used. Remember one thing though. Following his impeachment, he was found NOT GUILTY of anything they threw at him. If he had been found guilty, he would have been removed. However, he was found innocent of all crimes and misdeameanors he was accused.

The day that Bill Clinton left office, the special prosecutor, who had been investigating "White Water," "Travel gate," and whatever BS they tried to get him removed for, made a deal with Clinton. He stated he would drop all of the investigations they had going the whole eight years the Clintons were in office, state he was doing this due to lack of evidence IF Clinton would turned over his license to practice law for five years and be disbarred. They agreed to that and the rest should be history; however, the right will go on and on and on and on. Now THAT is why I dislike the Republicans. I don't hate Bush. He cannot help that he is simple minded. Even his own mother said it surprised them that he became president and not Jeb. They always thought Jeb would be president one day. I say ole Jeb will be running sometime before he dies.

So there you have it, and why you don't feel this toward those in the Congress who did this to a great President is beyond me.

Are you willing to post on FR what you posted here and see what happens there?

Oh, I'd rather listen to Randi Rhodes talk about her thong then I would listen to any of the right-wing hacks on the airways constantly crucify Democrats, attack, and lie about what is going on now with Abramoff and claim it is a bipartisan scandal (which it is not), plus sit and talk about poor judge Alito's crying wife. The Republican Senators still get up and talk about the partisanship regarding Judge Alito. If it hadn't been for 14 Democratic senators crossing those "partisan" lines, Alito could have been held up for a long, long time.

[Libby2]

60. Oh stop!

You're going to make me pretend to cry.

[MissB]

61. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay, although I must say you do sound a wee bit bitter.

[Dawgs]

64. AMEN!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!!

:toast: :loveya: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot:
:toast: :loveya: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot:
:toast: :loveya: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot:
:toast: :loveya: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot:
:toast: :loveya: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot:

[hyphenate]

66. The young do not always do what they are told

Our party of the left is made up of many different groups of people, unlike the Repub party.

If you look at the demographics of both parties, you will see, on the right, rich white guys, poor white guys, submissive or nutso women (Coulter and Malkin are perfect examples) and not a whole lot more. Sure, there are some minorities, but the percentage is not that high.

The left, on the other hand, is made up of rich folk, poor folk and everyone in between. The left represents blacks, women, Hispanics, gays, lesbians, and pretty much everyone who is not a white male.

When you came here to DU how did you approach the forum? If you approached the forum with the distinct need to find people to agree with you, you were sorely mistaken. Everyone here is treasured for their individualized, unique self and as a result of that, everyone comes with opinions founded on their own experiences, their own needs, their own beliefs. NONE of us play "follow-the-leader" except in the broadest sense of the word.

Liberals and other Democrats DO have some things in common, however, that make them Democrats in the first place: concern for the welfare of others, compassion, an almost manic desire to see our planet survive for at least another couple of thousand years, and the need to know that they aren't going it alone.

When someone comes along like you have, without many post counts to his name and tries to denigrate the people who have been here for a very long time, there is often no doubt that he is a rabble-rouser, and one whose motives for criticism are questionable. By judging the forum and its members so harshly after you have been here for so short a time, you are incurring suspicion and doubt as to how much of a real Democrat you really are.

DU has lived for a very long time with people who don't really belong here, who come here specifically to stir the shit and watch the fallout. It's something we get used to, but the disappointment it delivers is always the same. Democrats are ordinarily more trusting than Repubs, and we really hate to see our expectations fall when someone betrays that trust.

Whether you are right or wrong doesn't matter. You are not sufficiently acquainted with the boards here, nor the people to make such an assumption so early in your posting history here. In fact, we have had trolls who have managed to bite their tongues long enough to get higher post counts. And suddenly, on your very first separate thread, you use it to lob insults at the people who have been here for a lot longer than yourself. Many of us would chalk your post up to pure crassness, but others will decide you are yourself a troll, and need to go away--permanently.

Why did you even waste your precious time on DU if you "figured out" in 21 posts that people here frustrated you to no end? You don't NEED to stay here if the forum is not to your liking. Many of us here are family, and accept each other for what we are--not who we want to be. Warts and all--that's what we accept here--people who need others, who want to vent and release all the stress created by this unholy regime. We're all different, though, in background, experience, age, likes, dislikes and attitudes: we all share one common goal--to rid ourselves of this corrupt, totalitarian regime which has taken over the American government. And yes, we HATE it. Oftentimes, our passion and persistence is rewarded when we come together to discuss our abiding dislike for this mAdministration, but for the most part, we see this regime getting away with murder--literally AND figuratively. We all remember the rabid right when they went after Bill Clinton--and if you want hate, then you should look to the right to see how they tore Clinton apart. We don't forget that very easily. And now we have an asshole who is a thousand times worse--he and his criminal cronies are up to their necks in scandals, corruption, bribery, collusion--you name it, they've been involved in it. And THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

And so, yes, we HATE them. And we are passionate creatures who want to shake up the world, who want to bring righteousness back to the United States of America, and who want EVERYONE to be treated as individuals, who have the same rights, if not the same paycheck.

If you don't like our attitude, leave. That's up to you. You've started here with one black mark on your record for being such a snotty bastard so quickly, but if you remain, and if you try to be a little more polite and less hostile, you might actually end up a long time member of the forum. However,if you continue to make smartass and derogatory comments, you won't last very long. The choice is yours--and at least you have one. There are a lot of places nowadays where you would not have that choice.

[FlaGranny]

73. Excellent post. n/t

[hyphenate]

197. .....

:hi:

[Pacifist Patriot]

77. Well said.

[hyphenate]

199. .....

:hi:

[EwokMyWeewok]

71. enjoy your short stay

you can close your eyes to the bent coat hanger slide to hell. we will be sounding the klaxon.

[Ganja Ninja]

86. Bla Bla Bla ....

Like we can't tell a freeper when we see one. Please! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[0007]

87. Holy Moley where'd you come from or should I say who took

a dump in you're oatmeal?

[stepnw1f]

92. Check this Out DU....

"I have been a Democrat my entire life. I have either voted or campaigned for Democrats since I was 8 years old"

yuh... lifelong. More like a Rush Limpball fan. Hey chicken hawk... go enlist and shut up!

[SnookieDog]

94. I'm a newbie too . . . I can't stand to hear people trash democrats

on this board. I don't understand why people vent their hatred at democrats when we should reserve very ounce of energy we have for electing more democrats. I wish I cared about Bush. I care only that we put more democrats in the Congress and WH . . . end of problem. As long as we divide ourselves over how best to hate on Bush, we lose. The mid-term is only months away. Get over Alito. Nothing we can do about except make sure it doesn't happen again by electing a mojority in the senate. Give money, time, energy, ideas to EVERY democrat ans we'll be successful. See ya on the other side.

And oh, by the way. You guys who trash newbies who want to see a more practical approach to winning voters are not doing the party any favors.

[br7598]

100. In 2006 and 2008....

we could have 90 democrats in the senate. What good would it do if 45 of them vote against progressive ideas?

Don't attack democrats or republicans. Criticize anyone who votes for fascist ideals. Regardless of their party.

[Sterling]

182. I agree

At this point I could care less about any political party. They have all done little to help our country in the past 25 years. I know what I believe in and I am only interested in people who will uphold the ideals that this party "used" to defend.

[Orangepeel]

110. welcome to DU, SnookieDog

:hi:

I like your attitude!

The past few days have been a strange example of the the best and worst of DU. It is a great source of news (the LBN forum is amazing), increasingly effective as a mobilization tool, a place to make friends, and, maybe most of all, a place to vent.

It is also a place that has helped energize people who are (still) idealistic about government and what it can and should be. Hopefully, the Party will find ways to encourage and harness that energy and idealism and not crush it in the way that politics can do. I hope you'll stick around and try to help with that.

:hi:

[Bridget Burke]

120. If someone's first posts attack DU, we do get suspicious.

Anyone who's been here a while sees a wide range of opinions.

Much of the anger expressed here will lead to supporting "better" Dems in the primaries. Few of the angry will flush their votes down a 3rd party toilet in the general election. Here in Texas, we'll generally take any Democrat we can get. Other states have the luxury of more choices.

It's amazing how many brand-new DU'ers begin by telling us we're doing everything wrong!

[quaoar]

186. Welcome to DU

[linazelle]

98. "I think that they had a perfect plan in 2004"....

Yeah the plan was: spy on the Kerry campaign and then stalk them on the campaign trail. Good plan that. It worked.

[BushOut06]

104. A newbie is going to come on here and trash DUers?

Hey, I know I'm a relative newbie myself, but shit... Being a newbie and attacking other DUers, questioning our attitudes towards Bush, claiming the '04 election wasn't stolen, bashing Air America (finally a voice on the radio that isn't RW), Daily KOS, and other liberal sites, that's not a very good way to win friends over here. I don't agree with every position that many on this forum hold, and I've had my share of debates already. But I would never - ever - come on here and start bashing my fellow DUers!

[baby_mouse]

106. 8 years old!?!?!? WOW! I saLUTE you.

PAR PA PAAAAR PAR PAR PAAAAAAAAAAAAR
PAR PA PAAAAR PAR PAR PAAAAAAAAAAAARetc

:eyes:

[SaveElmer]

112. You make alot of sense...

We tend to use external issues as crutches to explain why we lose on one thing or another (Diebold, DLC..etc). I think it makes people feel better, and doesn't really require an examination of the message.

The Republicans are on the ropes. I think it would be far more beneficial to stop the self immolation that goes on and conentrate on the next election.

[EFerrari]

125. I don't want to upset you over this very interesting OP

but if you think the 2004 election was clean, please notify the GAO, the Congressional Black Caucus, John Conyers in particular, Bob Fitrakis at the Free Press (save him months of work!), Mark Crispin Miller, Larry Beinhart and CASEOhio. Maybe, Gore Vidal, too. He could probably use some good news today.

They'd be REALLY happy that they can just forget the whole thing! :)

[SaveElmer]

132. I of course did not say that...

There were obviously problems...I just don't beleieve they cost us the election (in 2004). Everytime we lose on an issue we get the same posts about Diebold and stolen elections as the way to win, as if that were our problem. Fact is, the Democratic message doesn't always resonate with people for whatever reason, and our GOTV efforts are generally pathetic compared to the Republicans. There were some glimmers of hope in Virginia this year, and the Republicans in Congress and in the White House are on the ropes. So 2006 is a great opportunity, but instead of whining about Diebold to the exclusion of just about everything else, I would suggest we work on making these elections too close to steal by getting a coherant message out there, and getting local party structures up to the challenge of turning out supporters. I think Howard Dean has made great strides in this area, so I am optimistic about it.

[EFerrari]

140. Hang on to your belief if you like. It won't serve you well

I'm afraid.

You Dems did an outstanding job in 2004. It took every single trick they had and they still didn't beat you. What you do with that situation is, of course, your choice. :)

You have every reason to be optimistic about the politics of the effort this year. Bush has cut his throat and the Thuggery will soon be frantic trying to step away from the carnage.

Don't let them in the back door.

[G_j]

113. You don't have to hate people

to point out they are supreme war criminals who should be frog marched to the Hague.

[Bridget Burke]

114. Reading this thread, you can see that we all agree 100%!

Or--maybe we don't.

I've never listened to Air America. Which other media do you consider Liberal? I read the Houston Chronicle & watch CBS news. I do subscribe to avowedly liberal magazines: The Texas Observer & Mother Jones. And I get some news & opinion from the internet. But even the "mainstream" media provide plenty of reasons to dislike Bush.

I'm sorry that DU makes you so unhappy.

[ComerPerro]

115. Bush is stupid, but his handlers aren't

they are the ones doing all the conspiring and fraud.

You're free to think what you want, but don't be suprised if people treat you as hostile when you show up spouting GOP talking points

[Orangepeel]

119. well, I hope you don't get banned

you might, of course -- that's not for me to say. But if you do, it won't be for the point of view expressed in this post alone.

There are many, many traditional, moderate Democrats on DU (although they may get shouted down quite often) and room for all left of center opinions.

If you do get banned, it will be because 1) you generalized your disagreement with a number of posters and presented it in a way that borders on insult to DU itself(well, yeah, it's a big number of posters, but it is not everyone) or 2) you get dragged into a flame fest with others because of this post -- which won't be all your fault, but, as a new poster, it seems to me that the burden of behaving tends to be on those who have not yet earned the benefit of the doubt (although I don't presume to speak for the moderators)

Anyway, as others have said, the past few days have shown the best and the worst of DU. IMO, you should take what you can out of it and ignore what may seem to use as useless or fringe.

[Pacifist Patriot]

122. The administration is not composed of a single individual.

Bush's intelligence is a matter of debate. I still can't decide if he's dumb as a fox or crazy as a loon.

My "blind hatred" for Bush has been lovingly cultivated by the moronic policy decisions, flagrant disregard for the U.S. Constitution, and pathological lying on the part of the Executive Branch. I have yet to find a single policy decision or appointment with which I have agreed. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Bush can't even manage that much with me.

Bush is simply the poster boy for my blind distrust of PNAC.

And by the way. I rarely listen to Air America, haven't really ever checked out DailyKos and have never heard of Prison Planet. White House press releases, CSPAN and WH press secretary briefings have provided me with the lion's share of the information I need.

Yep, I whine here. Because that's what I need from DU. I contribute to Democratic candidates, stump for local politicians, bust my tail as a precinct captain, write liberal editorials and do whatever I can to get Democrats elected in 2006. I need a place to scream when the pressure has just built too much for me to stand it anymore. I figure it's better I call Bill Nelson a traitor here than do it on the phone with one of his staffers.

The fact that I see potential for flagrant abuse is enough to damage my confidence in the election process. All I ask for is a transparent election. Until we have that, whether the election is stolen or not is moot. Without audits and accountability the issue of election integrity will not go away. And that isn't a silly concern.

[mikeanike]

130. ok

for the most part that rant was misguided. BUT you did touch on something that I've noticed my friends say all the time. To them Bush is either a blithering idiot (which he is) or a diabolical schemer (doubt it). He can't be both. I agree that Bushco beat us in 2004 by putting wedge issues on the ballot in critical states, but hey guys, thats how campaigns work. And if want to go back the good old days of campaigning guess again, it used to be a lot worse! But a good campaigner isn't necessarily a good leader and we need to recognize certain realities. Bush is not going to be on the ballot in '08 but the people that helped get Bush into office will be around. Maybe not the dreaded Karl Rove but there are plenty of GOP operatives that are just as clever and just as hungry to make a name for themselves. I think that the most important thing that we as democrats can do is to stop talking about Bush. When '08 comes around the average american will not be concerned with Bush. They'll be looking for fresh, strong, and exciting leadership. If we stay focused on Bush until then....forget getting the White House in '08.

/rant

[in_cog_ni_to]

137. GEEZUS. The idiot DID NOT win in 2004 because of WEDGE ISSUES.

That's just what they want you to believe happened. Kerry was leading in all the polls and voilà, a computer "glitch" took out those polls. When the polls came back up, just GUESS who was leading? That's right! THE IDIOT WAS!

We could EASILY sweep the '06 House and Senate elections WITHOUT EVOTING MACHINES. We could EASILY win the WH in '08 WITHOUT EVOTING MACHINES. The man's poll numbers are now at 38%! How fucking low do they have to go before people open their damn eyes and see that this country has been taken over by repuke corruption? sheesh.

[Flubadubya]

136. You need to be FORCED to listen to Mike Malloy for weeks on end...

Then you might get a little righteous indignation in you despite yourself! Otherwise, go blow!!

[BuyingThyme]

141. Educate yourself.

[mmonk]

142. So, are you saying this administration is not radical?

Then you are not informed. I came to DU as a moderate. But there is nothing moderate going on currently in America from the Grover Norquist political economic cult to extra constitutional powers for the executive branch, the most corrupt and influenced based congress in modern history, torture, preemptive war, illegal surveillance of citizens, and the list goes on. These are life changing policies for ALL Americans. To call fighting passive meek or asleep democrats in the wake of this garbage as just being whiney and hate filled means you aren't up on things. You must get all your information from the media conglomerates. You don't lie down in front of a runaway train nor do you set a table for it.

[txaslftist]

144. Goodbye, then.

Hope everything turns out like you think and we're all just being paranoid. On the other hand, you might want to buy gold to be safe.

[samhsarah]

151. Why ya gotta mess with Randi?

Come on, now.

[ginnyinWI]

153. You have a point,

But DU isn't really meant as an intellectual stronghold; it runs on emotions, primarily! Unless you find a niche group you like, general forums here are like that. If you want more lenghty, reasoned discussions you need to look for other sites. There are some that post good stuff here--don't mean to discredit them--but in general people merely post their quick thoughts about events. I think Dkos is more likely to have thoughtful posts, because people only get one diary entry a day. And there are others.

I come here for general headlines and links to sites, and don't take everything I read as truth, necessarily! I also like to post information for others who may not travel the net as much.


edit: oh yeah and about AAR: the earlier in the day you listen, the more likely you will find reasonable discussion of events. I find that each succeeding host, as the day progresses, gets more and more emotional and right-bashing. If I want a bit of that, I tune in. Otherwise I stick with the morning people. ;)

[More Than A Feeling]

155. That's nice, thanks for stopping by!

*waves bye-bye*

[Tsiyu]

156. Talking points straight off of Rove's desk

Aren't you just so cute!!!!

Lecturing us wayward Dems on how to win. Awwwwwwwww.

But let me ask you this:

Are Cheney, Rove, Rice and Rummy all stupid too? In my opinion, YOU are, if you believe this administration is no more than a bumbling gang of morons. These Neocons know exactly what they're doing.

They only want two things: Money and power. They are not interested in a strong, vibrant nation. They want the common man to be poor, dependent and too depressed to fight back. They have drained our treasury, killed our brightest young people and maimed and tortured people in other nations.

If you honestly believe they did not steal two elections, I have some ocean-front property here in Tennessee I'll sell you REAL cheap. You sound like just the kind of sucker who might buy it! You'll believe ANYTHING!!!


And as for your "I'm a Dem" crap...not buying it. You are no doubt one of those "Compassionate Christians" who nevertheless loves to gloat over the sorrow of others.

Have your fun, but that game will bite you in the ass one day. I promise.

[Gregorian]

161. Your mentality is exactly what got us where we are today.

Why even pay any attention to politics at all? I mean, they're all so screwed up. You know?
Just sit in front of the tv and let Fox fill you with all of what you might need.

And remember, a democracy just runs itself. We're only here to vote.

I'm so sick of WET NOODLES.

[VOX]

162. If you're not angry about what the right wing has done, check for a pulse.

Come on, man -- as of today, officially, the right wing controls all three branches of government. The right wing also effectively controls the mainstream media. Every day brings new egregious acts by the right wing that drastically reduce our freedoms, put us in deeper economic jeopardy, grant big business unchecked power and embarrassing profit at any cost (including the poisoning of our planet), and further enrage the world at our hubris.

This once-great country is now a flag-waving hologram, a hollow mirage calculated to reflect God and apple pie, when its reality is incredibly dark, exclusionary and fascistic in its treatment of its citizens.

If you're not angry about *, the PNAC Boys, and what the right wing has done to damage America and the world, then you'd better check for a pulse! :grr:

[sendero]

168. Let me just clarify something for you....

.... the Republicans spent 8 years hating Bill Clinton for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

They villified him at every turn, accused him of murder, mounted an $70 million investigation of a trivial land deal.

And they are now in office.

So much for your dumbass theory. Welcome to DU, now go away.

[Cleita]

169. I kind of resent you accusing of us being on a hate filled path,

when all that most of us want to do is save our country and our world from the hatred of race, class and war. We will never have a Democrat in the White House if we don't go down this road and identify those who want to enslave us in a totalitarian regime.

I don't think you know what a patriotic American is let alone a Democrat. And why are you so uptight about thong underwear? Randi makes jokes, some of them at times a little off color, but fer chrissakes they're jokes!

As for stealing the elections, you yourself said he was as dumb as a doorknob. Do you really believe a majority in this country would elect, less than that reelect a doorknob? Why do you think they had to get the Supreme Court to appoint him instead?

There is plenty of evidence out there for compromised elections both in 2000 and 2004 if you bother to read what has been discovered. Not only that, now it's going mainstream, and Mark Crispin Miller, a real journalist, has written a book about it.

[Ganja Ninja]

175. I suggest you try reading the first article on the home page ...

before you accuse us of being hateful. Here's a link.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/06/01/31_stop.html

[mnhtnbb]

177. Don't believe Bush stole 2004?

You need to read Mark Crispin Miller's book, Fooled Again.

Until the Dems acknowledge that BOTH the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen and HOW that was accomplished, it will not be possible to implement
strategies to prevent further stolen elections. Try harder?
What good does that do when the media is co-opted and the ballot boxes are owned by private companies who control the code for counting the ballots?

Dems need to get real. Personally, I think we are going to see a generation of control by the Repubs--unless the economy goes to hell in a handbasket--
before the damage that has been done in these last 5 years sinks in and the population revolts.

Americans are fat, dumb, and happy to sit on the couch and watch American Idol while they lose their civil rights, personal freedoms, and their government becomes more fascist by the day.

Not a very rosy picture, is it? Could be the reason so many people on DU are in a funk today.

[Marie26]

180. You have some good points, but

the way you've written it will probably inspire more flames than real responses. I don't think it's fair to catagorize everyone into the same niche. There's lots of people who are working hard to make positive changes in 2008, & not everyone believes the 2004 election was stolen. So, anyway, you've still made a lot of good points. This thread is probably a perfect example of what the poster's talking about. Hate, anger, pettiness, flaming, it's got it all. Democrats might hate Bush, but sinking into hatred & despair doesn't help change things. Having a positive plan & advocating for it is what will change Americans' minds. To an extent, it already has. I thought the Alito campaign was a good example of how much can be done when Democrats really get organized. I hope as the 2006 election approaches, Democrats can channel all this knowledge & passion into taking the Congress back. So, anyway, you should stick around - there's a lot to learn, lots of different opinions, & you can dodge the threads that bother you. And hey, you're not banned yet! :)

[mtnsnake]

183. You're right about some things but my hatred for Bush fuels my passion to

win.

Personally, I'm glad that people are consumed with hatred for Bush. It's that very hatred that will keep the fire going for so many of us that inspires the energy within us to overcome this corrupt administration. I'd rather be consumed and energetic than overcome with complacence and apathy. However, it's the hatred they show toward some of their own that's alarming. You'd think the DLC was out to rape us all if you believed half the nonsense that's spewed on a daily basis about so many fine Democrats here, like Hillary Clinton for example. Even Joe Biden isnt half as bad as what's claimed in this forum.

Where I agree with you is about the whiney nature of this forum. It seems to me that the majority of people currently posting on this forum are so far left that it makes me wonder how much longer it is before the name is changed from Democratic Underground to the Far Left Underground. I'll even bet you that a majority of the people currently posting here would rather have it named as such.

As far as your references to Air America....yes, many posters tend to be influenced to the nth degree by them one way or the other. One of the best examples is how so many latched onto Mike Malloy that night after the election when he ranted all night long "It was the machines!! We did nothing wrong! It was the machines, people!!!" Boy did that one ever take off. If "we did nothing wrong", then Mike wasn't watching the same mistake-riddled campaign that I watched. It might've had something to do with some machines, but it for sure had more to do with a pathetically run campaign and the fact that we were up against a wartime incumbent corrupt president who was taking full advantage of 9/11 to win out of fear instead of competance.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mike Malloy, but I love him because he's OUR answer to those scumbags from rightwing hate radio like Limbaugh and Hannity. I love Air America for the same reason, although I rarely listen to it anymore because I'm usually out working and can only pick it up when I'm on the computer. That and I get sick of that kind of talk radio after a short while. However, I think Air America just might be THE most important thing that's happened to Democrats and Liberals in 15 years. How we could go so long with no answer to shows like Limbaugh's is beyond belief. Thank gawd AAR came into existence. I think it's even more important that it gets listened to by people on the fence rather than by people who are already on our side of it. With AAR we at least have a 50/50 chance of capturing some moron's ear, as opposed to NO chance, as was the case before its existence.

Back to DU. This forum might not be perfect in each and every way, and maybe it's not quite what we thought it was when we first joined up, but at the current time there is nothing that I know of that comes close to being any better of a place for Democrats to come to and talk among one another. If there is such a place, please show me now.

[AX10]

184. bye-bye

[rucky]

188. I don't care what you think. n/t

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danieljay]

193. HERE you have it again boys & girls, why the Repubs have us whipped!!

Take a good look at the above post(s). What do you see? I see a party divided amongst itself. The Republicans, at least outwardly, don't go around telling each other to "fuck off", bashing each other's approach to politics and come together as a united front against democrats, liberals, and progressives who show little or NO cohesiveness, are divided amongst themselves, and attack each other as much as they do the opponant (as shown in the posts above). The Republican ilk collectively, whether right or wrong, tell us Dems to "fuck off" and don't make apologies for it.

Until the Democratic party can grow a unifed spine, stop dividing themselves among their pet issues, and confront the right wing machine head on there is little hope to turn this thing around.

Howard Dean had it right this morning on NPR...the Dems need a unified message and a strong defense of themselves.

[byronius]

194. DU requires critical thinking skills, knowledge of history, and

passion for truth. I could understand some points you were making until you talked about Randi. Know this as fact: Randi Rhodes is smartest damn woman on the planet. But you can't just dial in once or twice and say anything about her. She mixes in comic relief, fall-on-the-ground snot-coming-out-your-nose comic relief with the hardest, deepest, most powerful analysis of US politics ever. Totally fact-based, hyper-intelligent American truth. This woman is a great patriot -- you just need to get over the two-week acquired-taste hump. She irritated me for two or three weeks, and then I started to get it -- and now I think she's the Peak. I've learned more from her in a year than I learned in thirteen years of college. She's also a Person. Amazing.

Hate-filled? Yeah, I hate Nazis. That's right. I hate Nazis. I was ten years old when I stuck my head inside an oven at Dachau, and I've hated Nazis ever since. I also hate the Klan. I was fourteen years old when our social studies teacher showed us lynching slides in class -- the one where a black man had been chained to a tree and blowtorched to death still haunts my memory. Everyday. Yeah, that's right. I hate Nazis, and I hate the Klan, and I hate the Republican party for embracing those two groups and their methods and their reasoning and philosophical grounding and trying to claim that that is AMERICA. BUT IT'S NOT.

Hate? Yes. Whiney? No. That's a ROAR you hear. Fuck the Republican Party and everything they stand for. They're liars, cheats, scumbags, torturers, murderers, molesters. It's just the truth.

And you know what? That the Election of 2004 was stolen is scientific fact. So when you dismiss it with a paltry verbal wave of your hand, without any fact or reasoning whatsoever, know that you reveal yourself as intellectually dishonest.

Aside from that -- Welcome to DU.

[mattclearing]

196. Look at how much attention this hit and run poster has gotten.

With no evidence and a line straight out of the DLC handbook. Y'all have got to stop feeding this.

[LoZoccolo]

198. I sort of agree with you.

I think what you're basically saying is that dwelling on the past (rather than just letting it inform us in acting on the future) and seething in hatred for the figures involved in it is counterproductive. I think that makes sense. If we act counter to getting things done, we will just have more to dwell on and seethe about later.

[Moderator]

202. Locking

whatever the original intentions, this has become flamebait.