My friend still thinks Democrats took money from Abramoff.

[Cyrano]

We got to talking about it yesterday, and she went bugshit insane when I told her it just wasn't so. She's not online, gets all of her news from TV, and I suspect she's representative of the majority of people who don't have computers.

She's a liberal Democrat, but she really believes that Katie Couric, Tim Russert and Chris Matthews report the truth. Well, if TV is your main source of "news" what else are you to believe?

I gave her a copy of yesterday's NY Times column by Paul Krugman which once again debunks the Abramoff/Democrat bullshit, but I really don't know if it made any difference. (Can't link to Krugman's column. You've got to subscribe to the Times.)

As long as the thugs control the media (and the ballot boxes) forget about seeing a return to democracy any time soon.

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Tell her to turn off the TV.

[0007]

11. Let her read some of your DU material online.

Take her to "Democracy Now" if ya have Direct TV. Cuddle up on Friday evening and watch "Washington Now" and then "Now" on PBS. Hip her to Jon Stewart. Get a Howard Zinn book or two.

What are you waiting for?

[rpgamerd00d]

2. email her THIS:

[Cyrano]

7. She doesn't have a computer, but I can print it out.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. That's good!

Did you make it yourself? If so, may I copy it?

[rpgamerd00d]

12. Yes & Yes.

[Canuckistanian]

10. Perfect!

The sad thing is, even this will require a half-hour explanation for some people.

[ComerPerro]

22. Flowchart? What the hell is that? How does it work?

I don't understand...


:sarcasm:

Great illustration

[Dora]

3. Tell her to turn off the tv and give it to charity. n/t

[wtmusic]

4. They did, didn't they?

j/k ;-)

[truckin]

5. I also talked to a liberal Democrat who thought this too. I don't

know how we can effectively fight this.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Does she believe Saddam had WMDs?

Or does she realize that the MSM has aided and abetted Bush's lies in the past? If she hasn't drunk the Kool Aid on WMDs, there's hope, because you can show her that her "news" is simply rw propaganda.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. It's maddening, isn't it?

I too have run into liberal Democrats who believe it. Dean sits there and offers documentary evidence yet the questions of the interviewer penetrate far more effectively than the answers given by the interviewee. When the hell did that shift happen?

[Brewman_Jax]

13. Tried the same crap on NPR this morning /w Howard Dean

Democrats received no money from Abramoff--and your friend is a liberal democrat? I'll take your word for it.

[Justitia]

14. Some people WANT to believe complete bullshit. Steal her voter

registration card, let the air out of her tires on election day. Hell, tell her they changed election day, she'd probably believe that too.

IOW, people that WANT to believe this shit are a lost cause and a huge waste of your time.
People who want the truth will seek you out for it.
I'm so tired of wasting my time on idiots and I've wasted lots of it.
Now it's time for a different kind of action, IMO.

[Kalisiin]

15. Tell Her

that the clients of Abramoff (the Indian tribes) had donated to Democrats prior to becoming involved with Abramoff.
AFTER becoming involved with Abramoff, those tribes donated money to Democrats...however, the amount they donated to Democrats DECREASED after they became involved with Abramoff.

Then ask her how it is in any way scandalous on the part of Democrats to get LESS from a previous donor than they previously did. Ask them how the Democrats did anything unrethical or wrong. And if they did...how did it benefit Democrats, when the contributions Democrats received actually DECREASED after they became involved with Abramoff.

Seems to me that, if you follow through WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED, any reasonable person could see that the Democrats got HURT...in the sense that the contributions they used to get from certain tribes, pre-Abramoff, were now suddenly significantly lower, post-Abramoff?

Ask her how getting LESS MONEY THAN PREVIOUSLY is scandalous on the part of the recipient.

[Cyrano]

17. Too complex. She's not online, so why would she take my word rather

than "respected sources" like Russert, Couric and Matthews?

As Robert DeNiro said in the film "Wag the Dog," "It's on TV. It's gotta' be true."

[Kalisiin]

19. The TRUTH Is Too Complex For Her? Then Why Waste Your Time??

n/t

[Cyrano]

20. It's not that the truth is too complex. I'm just not as "reliable" a

source as the TV pundits. After all, who am I? Just some computer junkie who doesn't know what's going on in the "real" world as portrayed on TV.

[Kalisiin]

24. Ah, Then Tell Her This...

You would believe a complete stranger, just because he/she is on TV, before you would believe someone in your own family, whom you have known your whole life. Glad to know where I rank in whatever passes for your mind.

and then, get some graphs, which are available...showing Indian tribe contributions to the Democrats before Abramoff...and showing those same tribes contributions after Abramofff. Then ask her if she'd rather believe you and the hard facts, as shown in graphs...or some asshole on TV.

If she'd rather believe the TV, then she's a lost cause, and not worth your time.

In fact, she isn't worth your caring, either, if that's what she thinks of you.

[donheld]

16. Krugman

http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/f52a313dfb84489e/86943ac675b46c13?lnk=st&q=%22a+false+balance%22+krugman&rnum=1&hl=en#86943ac675b46c13

[chaumont58]

18. She's a liberal Democrat, but she really believes that Katie Couric, Tim R

How does one be a liberal democrat and still believe Fat Tim and Tweety? I don't know anything about Couric. I don't watch the Today show, but the other two seem a contradiction in events, especially Tweety. Any truth out of Tweety's mouth is an accident. Tweety, himself, is a contradiction in events. He once worked for Tip O'Neil, and was a speech writer for President Jimmy Carter. He now shows his Brokeback Mountain type love for the sitting President.

[blm]

21. GOPcontrol of broadcast media is the ROOT CAUSE of disinformation on EVERY

ISSUE this nation faces.

[Cyrano]

26. Exactly. We here on DU are political junkies. Most people aren't.

They live their day-to-day lives, get their news from TV and don't realize that they're being spoon-fed crap from the corporations and the GOP.

They're being misinformed every hour of every day, so of course they're going to take offense when you tell them that. The reaction is usually, "Hey, you think I'm stupid?"

They aren't stupid, but no one wants to believe they've been duped for years and that it's still going on.

[blm]

28. Time to fight the media with full force.

.

[Kansas Wyatt]

23. Demand official proof.

The media cannot back up their reporting with the facts, and the facts have to come with a government investigation. What is the Republican controlled Government hiding?

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. So she likes being Lied too?

:shrug: Even if I didn't have access to the internet(s) like I didn't in the '90's when the witch hunting of Pres. Clinton was ongoing, I would recognize bullshit and did, when I hear it. If she even suspectsjust a little that she is being lied to by the Corporate owned media (does she even know that the media is solely owned by the repug contributing Corps?) she owes it to herself to seek out other sources of information.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

29. The RW has worked hard to make her believe that.

There are many charts out there outlining in graphic detail the "contributions."

Harry Reid and Howard Dean researched this topic carefully and are confident the Ds are clean on this issue. I sure hope so.