“At Least the US Doesn’t Ration Healthcare!” WSJ

[The Whiskey Priest]

Ah, that is the US doesn’t ration healthcare if you are rich enough to be able to afford healthcare. Of, course you could look at that as rationing?

[kenny blankenship]

1. It just flat out denies it to millions of its citizens

[moonlady0623]

2. No, it just...

...looks the other way and lets the Insurance Industry do it for them.....

[npincus]

3. no, Tom Cruise can buy sonogram machines and millions can't get a

sonogram... sounds like Republican logic.

[htuttle]

4. We're far beyond 'rationing'

What we have is income-based triage.

[baby_mouse]

5. No, it just doesn't have any.

[greiner3]

6. I have come to the conclusion;

That the repugs don't care about human beings! :sarcasm:

[BushOut06]

7. Exactly

No, we don't ration health care per se. We simply make it so friggin expensive and then make sure that most Americans don't have access to adequate insurance.

[Not_So_Right_Wing]

8. we don't...?

thats news to me

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. Isn't pushing for the end of employer sponsored health care insurance

rationing or limiting health care? And isn't that exactly what Pinhead** plans to push in his "State of the State"...er..."State of the Nation"...er "State of the Country"...er "or whatever it's called" speech tonight?

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Flat out lie. Even the number of doctors in medical school is

rationed by the AMA.

[Yollam]

11. Only the top 60% or so have health care here.

Most civilized democracies cover 90% or better.

So I guess we need some rationing...

[Jane Austin]

12. Hey, it's "Market Forces" not the gummit who's rationing healthcare.

That makes it all right, doesn't it?

:sarcasm:

I have two broken teeth, two missing crowns and a missing bridge, but I can't go to the dentist because it's going to cost thousands.

That's economic rationing.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Usual WSJ Buull

Read the real data:

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12930930&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum|Woolhandler, Campbell, & Himmelstein, Costs of health care administration in the United States and Canada; N Engl J Med. 2003 Aug 21;349(8) at 768-75>

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15184338&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum|Woolhandler and Himmelstein, The high costs of for-profit care.CMAJ. 2004 Jun 8;170(12):1814-5.>

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15088674&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum|Himmelstein, Woolhandler, & Wolfe, Administrative waste in the U.S. health care system in 2003: the cost to the nation, the states, and the District of Columbia, with state-specific estimates of potential savings. Int J Health Serv. 2004;34(1)at 79-86. >

...and lots more.

The "rationing" argument comes from here:
In Canada they spend about 60% of what we do on health care per capita. That's about a 40% differential.

Of that 40% - the big 30% (three quarters) comes from reduction/elimination of bureaucracy, fraud, waste, abuse, and duplication.

But - also of that 40%, the smaller 10% (one quarter) comes from what conservatives call "rationing."

Read the papers - follow the references, do your own searching in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi>-National Library of Medicine Pub Med

"Rationing" is a RW boogey man to turn discussion away from the "big 30%" - a GOP weapon of mass distraction.

[The Whiskey Priest]

14. Thanks....for the information

although I could not get the links to open.......

[Coastie for Truth]

17. Go to the Pub Med Link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

and enter "Woolhandler" and "Himmelstein" and "Canada" as your search terms. Caution - if you don't enter "Canada" you wll get about 120+ hits on "Single Payer" - and probably Dr. Woolhandler's NY Times LTTE supporting Howard Dean in 2004.

Dr's Woolhandler and Himmelstein are a prolific pair of patient advocates.

[applegrove]

15. Market models are based on scarcity. In this case - scarcity of money.

But there is lots of health care. Endless amounts. Except for that little thing.. money.

[hunter]

16. We pay for a luxury car and get a rusty Chevy Vega with fancy tail fins.

In many ways our healthcare system in the United States is in worse shape than our auto industry.

Let's see, right off the top of my head

• People who have no money delay getting healthcare. By the time they show up in the Emergency Room their health problems are permanent or very expensive to fix. Many of these people never return to work and seek long term public assistence.
  
  
• The un- and underinsured middle class is using bankruptcy as a kind of medical "safety net."
  
  
• Our drug companies spend far more on advertising than they do on research, and most of the research they do is on drugs that will not reduce the social costs of medical problems.
  
  
• Insurance companies do nothing about rising costs, so long as their profits are rising. Many U.S. citizens, especially those with ongoing health problems, cannot purchase private medical insurance. Doctors are discouraged from practicing good medicine, and encouraged to practice inadequate assembly line medicine.
  
  
• Domestic medical professionals are being replaced by lower paid immigrant medical professionals. In effect we are "outsourcing" medicine.
  

Bullshit we don't ration. In many ways our approach to medicine is third-world. Our medicine follows the money. People who don't have money are mere placeholders for the large corporations feeding greedily from the government trough.

[Bandit]

18. Gee we don't ration Rolls Royce's either but.......

:shrug: such a dumb argument I wonder why I even bothered with a response..