What's wrong with our party?

[DeBunk]

1.) Lack of leadership and principled elected officials.

Our democratic party is full of opportunists, strategic players, and self protectionists. Americans admire people with convictions...people who stand for something. The conservative charge that democrats don't stand for anything sticks...because it's true. Not us...not us in the grass roots. Our leaders don't stand for anything.

2.) We are identified by the fringe.

In the vacuum created by our elected officials lack of leadership we look to anyone who will stand on principle. Often these folks stand on the fringe of American political life. In itself there is nothing wrong with this, but it won't attract moderates to the party.

Unless Democrats address these problems we are going to continue to spin our wheels.

[Common Sense Party]

1. Don your flak jacket. Incoming. n/t

[Vincardog]

2. The problem is the CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS raising BIG $$$$$$$$$

We have to have publicly financed campaigns and get the corrupt corporate money out of our government.
For those who will say "Who much will it cost?"
Look at how much it costs now to have the Parasites ruling out land.

[DeBunk]

3. ....

I agree on this. But, it doesn't solve our immediate problem.

[Shortyfuse]

4. Some very good democrats

Libertarian party alternate for disgruntled Rep. Spread the word. Some of the best are dead Matsuhi for one, Wellstone, and I still think right wingers had something to do with John John Kennedys' death.( Can you imagine what a threat him and his magazine were to them.

[HughBeaumont]

5. President Bastard Church stands for the following:

Giving corporations whatever the hell they want.
Shifting the tax burden from the rich onto the middle class and poor, JUST like Reagan.
Absolute power to the President.
Continuous military involvement SOMEwhere, whether said nation ever attacked us or not.
Permanent tax cuts for the wealthy, damn that meaningless pesky 8 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT.
More religious involvement in government.

You can stand for something, but that sure as shit doesn't make it RIGHT.

Try telling the * enablers of the Democratic party to fucking stop it NOW and stop being scared of being called an obstructionist. This Presidunce and his administration have no opposition at a time where they sorely need one. Maybe they're scared of being "plane crashed", I don't know. They need to start doing their damned JOBS.

And as far as identification by the fringe: whoever controls the message paints it that way. And right now, Repukes control the message because they own ALL the media. I don't know what to tell you on that one, no Dems with money own anything that will get our message out.

By the way, how is a formerly middle-class filmmaker, a greiving plain-Jane mom who lost her son in Presidope Fuckface's oil-grab, a handful of actors and actresses and anyone with the last name of Clinton "FRINGE"?

[DeBunk]

6. ...

"By the way, how is a formerly middle-class filmmaker, a greiving plain-Jane mom who lost her son in Presidope Fuckface's oil-grab, a handful of actors and actresses and anyone with the last name of Clinton "FRINGE"?"


I don't think the Clintons are fringe. And, I clearly said there is nothing wrong with any of those people. However, in the vacuum created by our lack of leadership those people are seen, by us, as our leaders.

Cindy Sheehan get's more respect from us then Harry Reid. Then she goes and hangs out with foreign leaders and we lose all credibility.

[Gregorian]

7. You are wrong.

Try spending some time doing research before you go public with your accusations.

Hint: The corporate media is anything but liberal. Neither is it fair nor balanced. It just so happens that Democrats don't make the rest of the nation live by their standards. It takes real principals and conviction to fight this war without a gun. They cheat, and we try to win by playing by the rules.

[DeBunk]

9. ...

You act as though I have attacked you personally. We have to face reality. I've been working for 3 weeks straight trying to get this filibuster going. I know many of you have too. I can't count how many phone calls, emails, letters and message board posts I have made. I see thousands of us doing the same thing.

Yet all we can muster is 25 votes against cloture? That's it?

Sure, we got 42 today...the fight was over yesterday. This was for all the marbles. We couldn't get almost half the caucus to stand up and fight this.

I'm sorry if you disagree, but unless we face reality we will see this again and again.

[rucky]

13. Reality is this: Our "fringe" is normal for the rest of the world.

Progressives are a global majority. It's the so-called mainstreamers that need to get with the program. If they LED, instead of bellyaching over what irrational swing voters in the middle may think, then the folks in the middle may join the ranks of the reasonable & compassionate. They never make the case, though. They're so worried about getting or keeping their jobs, they give into the irrational time and time again.

THAT'S why we lose.

[DeBunk]

18. I respectfully disagree

Republicans are ramming their agenda through in this country....now. And, we can't stop them...we can't even slow them down.

Sure there are forces arrayed against us, sure there are ignorant people who vote on emotion.

But, progressive leaders in this country have been able to succeed facing tougher odds in the past. We have a rich history of beating the robber barons. Why should now be different.

[Gregorian]

23. Sorry. I just made an assumption.

I looked at the number of posts you have made, and like a neon light in my head, I just assumed Freerepublic.

They didn't stop Hitler. And a hell of a lot of people died. Perhaps 100 million. We are up against evil that is no less.

I don't have much to say. Today is one of the few times when I am just posting away like a loon. I ordinarily just observe, unless I feel I have something passionate to say. Forgive me if I offended you. I have a feeling I didn't. You must have some tough hide to be a Democrat.

I am offended by the fact that this nation could be so much better. And how long I have endured the slow, undefended decline.

And very little of it affects me. I'm neither poor, black, nor female. I just care.

[DeBunk]

26. It's all good

I just want to stop this.

Just like everyone else.

I am extremely disappointed that we couldn't stop Alito. I see it as a failure of leadership. We did our part...where were they on the hill?

[JeffR]

8. Wrong on both counts

Yes, leadership is a problem for the party these days. It's a problem for any political party, especially a fractious, big-tent party. It's also fair to say that a lot of politicians - of any ideological stripe - are opportunists.

But to say that the Democrats don't stand for anything is RW propaganda dressed up as analysis. Virtually every progressive aspect of today's America is the result of hard work by Democrats. Democrats stand for fiscal sanity, social justice, tolerance, the prudent conduct of foreign relations, using the power of government to create a more perfect union.

If some party leaders have shown a pronounced lack of conviction and principle recently - and they have - does that mean the party doesn't stand for anything? No.

As to your second point, this is an especially egregious misreading of Democrats and reality in general. The RW echo-chamber would have it that any Democrat who speaks out about anything is from the fringe. This bilge has been applied to Howard Dean (a centrist Governor), John Murtha (a hawk), Hillary Clinton (the personificiation of center-straddling triangulation), Michael Moore (an NRA, Rust-Belt populist whose "fringe" views have won him repeated spots on the NYT Bestseller List, an Academy Award, a Palme-D'Or, etc.), and so on and so on.

Anyone who stands up and articulates a Democratic message, however moderate, however rational, however in tune with a majority of public opinion, is immediately subjected to a chorus of catcalls from the usual suspects in the Republican Party and their lickspittles in the MSM.

BTW, there's an almost palpable wariness and weariness on these forums today, and your post is guaranteed to chafe sensibilities. I'm not going to accuse you of being a Freeper, but some might.

You touched on a couple of things that the party, and its leadership, need to do some soul-searching about, but you've also come dangerously close to parroting some easily debunked memes. I hope you'll respond in greater detail about why you believe what you posted.

[DeBunk]

10. The fight was on the floor yesterday

You can deny it, you can blame people like me. You can blame the media.

In the end we only got 25 votes. Just over half the caucus.

This was the big game, the most important fight of our generations and our leaders tested the waters, made tentative statements, and only took risks when there wasn't anything to risk.

I don't want to fight that hard for nothing anymore.

[JeffR]

17. I understand how discouraging this was

And I don't blame you for your comments, but just wanted to warn you that some people will.

And I do blame the media, for much of what's wrong with America today. They've been complicit in a trumped-up, phony impeachment, the theft of two elections, the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, etc.

And the media have facilitated this steady vilification of Democrats as being out-of-touch with "American values".

If a horse's ass like Lieberman came out tomorrow and announced he was in favor of immediate withdrawal from Iraq, do you think every RW talking-head wouldn't immediately jump up to pin the "fringe" tail on the donkey?

As to Scalito being the big game, I have to agree with Will Pitt's thoughtful analysis. It hurts mightily, but as soon as the SCOTUS appointed Bush in 2000, we all knew this was coming. The Democrats didn't have the numbers to stop it, period. I'd have loved to see the wagons circled yesterday, but it just wouldn't have made me feel a bit better about a bitter pill.

The most important political fight is taking back the country from the crooks who are running it and the media who twist every fact into pre-scripted narratives. Are there elected Democrats unworthy of being part of that cause? Absolutely. So we toss them and find better people to replace them with.

These dark times are not the moment for resignation, and I think your OP was intended to spark a conversation about strategies and changes of direction. But I have problems with both your points in their specifics.

[DeBunk]

19. I'm not affraid of the anger

The truth must be told. Change can only come if the grass roots demand it.

Progressives have had media and government forces against them before. We have prevailed before.

There is no reason why we can't now.

[JeffR]

21. On that, we agree 100%

[mdmc]

11. Welcome to DU! What is this fringe you speak of?

[Lorien]

12. Lol! "moderates" are republicans

There are only about five people on capitol hill who adhere to Democratic principles. We are identified by the mainstream media, which demands that our elected officials cater to the corporations that own both them and the MSM. They demand "moderates"; Dems who act like repugs by voting for bankruptcy bills, radical judges who will aid corporate greed and screw average Americans, and wars for profit.

Who is the radical fringe in your world view? Howard Dean, the man who gets five stars from the NRA?

[DeBunk]

15. No man

Moderates are me. And, no Howard Dean is not on the fringe.

We are so used to being attacked we are automatically on the defense.


The fringe is going to Venezuela and hanging out with Chavez. Yes, he may be a great host an all, but no mainstream American is going to be down with that. I'm not.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. They are politicians whose first priority is to their seats.

They count on the progressives to support them as the "not as bad" candidates so they move to the right to get the $$$$ and votes from "moderates" who might not vote for them if they move left. As long as we keep blindly voting for them because they have a (D) after their name, they'll keep playing politics.

Principled politicians is an oxymoron.

[DeBunk]

16. Why didn't our leaders protect Moore and Dean?

They should have been their to provide cover for these folks. But, instead they let them twist in the wind.

Moore became radio active.

This is what I am trying to say here. Moore appears on the fringe because no one will stand behind him. We listen to him because he's telling the truth.

[IndianaGreen]

20. It turned its back on the New Deal, Fair Deal, and New Frontier

and it bought Reaganism without Reagan.

Once the Democrats abandoned their labor/small farmer roots, they forgot what to stand for, so it was easy for them to become a mere echo of the GOP.

[Der Blaue Engel]

22. "Fringe" here

You do realize the rest of the country considers us in the liberal blogosphere to be the fringe, don't you?

I will not compromise my principles to attract what you call "moderates." This country is so far to the right now that people like me, who were once considered moderate, are now left-wing fringe.

Congratulations. You've bought the lie.

[DeBunk]

25. Then at least demand:

Your leaders reflect your principles.

That's all I'm saying.

[Der Blaue Engel]

28. I do

And 24 of them did just that, yesterday. I'll keep working on the rest of them. :)

[mmonk]

24. They could start by defining the republicans as who

and what they are. The republicans have been defining dems for the last twenty years, though untruthfully.

[oasis]

27. Unfortunately, Harry Reid is not Harry Houdini. Being in the minority

doesn't leave him with many options.He does the best he can with what he has to work with.