Whos Giving the Dem Response to The SOU Speech

[rsmith6621]

Tonight....

[samhsarah]

1. Kaine from VA

[IndyOp]

3. A relative unknown so that people won't hate the Dem right away? (nt)

:kick:

[LSparkle]

2. Tim *snore* Kaine, new Gov. of Virginia

IMHO, "Must-Miss TV" ... He's already saying he's going to tell both sides to quit being so partisan, negative and irrelevant. (Oh, yeah, CENTRISM, that's the answer -- let's all join hands and sing Kum-Ba-Ya .... RETCH.)

[samhsarah]

4. YAY - MORE CENTRISM!!!!!

Dontcha' love it?

[IndyOp]

5. Yeah! THAT'S the way to convince people to vote for Dems (nt)

Lump them in with the corrupt, irresponsible Rethugs.

:puke:

[MrModerate]

6. As long as we continue to let the 'Licans . . .

Paint us as rabidly partisan, they'll continue to render our messages irrelevant. Having Kaine give the SOTU response (which, incidentally, would be must-miss TV if it was given by a tag team of Eugene Debs and Jesus Christ) is a not-unreasonable attempt to appeal to the center.

I'm willing to hear what he has to say before I condem him as a hopeless loser. How about you?

[samhsarah]

7. OK, I will hear what he says.....

And if it is more reaching for that ever lusted after "undecided voter" in the middle, then tomorrow I will tell you that Kaine can kiss my ass.

[MrModerate]

9. You don't like undecided voters?

You don't like actually winning elections (Supreme court and black-box voting notwithstanding)?

[samhsarah]

10. Yeah I LOVE losing elections.

Didn't Kerry's advisors have him running around trying to woo those undecided voters in the middle? Yeah that worked out.

[MrModerate]

12. Actually, I'm convinced he DID win in 2004

But too much 'Lican vote theft turned the tide. And yes, he did appeal to the center, and he got a whole shitpot of votes from the center -- without losing many on the left. He could do so because Bush and his clump of toadies are so odious that very few left-leaning voters would risk a third-party vote, and a substantially smaller proportion than usual stayed away from the polls in disgust.

I don't think Kerry was anything like an ideal candidate, but he didn't do so badly.

But they stole the election again, and even given the bitterness of this defeat, I don't think abandoning a broader appeal is a winning strategy.

[samhsarah]

14. Agreed, Agreed, and Agreed.

I am a big fan of Senator Kerry. But this is about Kaine. And my opinion of him remains to be seen.

[Jai4WKC08]

39. I'll wait to hear what he says

But if he takes the DLC/Warner "can't we all just get along" approach, that'll be enough for me.

It's possible to be centrist, or even non-partisan on issues that affect us all, and still hold Bush and the Repub Congress accountable for their negligence, incompetence, and criminality.

[MrBenchley]

8. Yeah, you wouldn't want to reach the majority of voters

And people wonder why the term "loony left" is so appropriate.....

[LSparkle]

16. Thank you -- I proudly accept the label "loony left"

I don't think the Repugs have "won" elections by going toward the center -- they have fired up their base and almost intentionally NOT tried to appeal to a wide range of voters.

[MrBenchley]

23. Then you're welcome to it.

[Dr Fate]

19. Ask these apolitical types for donations and see where it gets you.

Ask them to ring door bells for Democrats if you really want to get laughed at.

Of course, it's what you call the "looney left" that does all of that work, not what some call "centrists."

[MrBenchley]

22. LOL!

Jeeze, almost all I see here from our loony left is that they aren't going to support Democrats any more.

And in my neck of the woods, the Democrats are solid centrists....and the loony left, as usual, are all noise and no work.

[Dr Fate]

25. Centrists as in in real centrists, or centrists as in...

..."the Bush has taken us so far to the right that even progressives seem centrist" centrists?

If it's the 2nd choice, then that makes sense- because that makes all the active volunteers I know including myself to be "centrists" as well.

If you are talking about people who are right of center doing DEM activist work, I can honestly say I never saw it while working in GA or on the national scene with the DNC.

I'll take your word for it, but I've never seen it, even in conservative GA. My experience is that the active base hardly ever leans right on much of anything.

All of them i've ever worked with are either "centrists" (the 2nd definition) or leaning left.

Good luck- if right leaning voters really do volunteer work for your DEMs, then awesome- but I've never seen that in my life.

[MrBenchley]

26. Centrists as in people who actually work and play in the real world

Who don't try to pretend that Hillary Clinton is a "fascist corporwhore." You know, people who can talk to ordinary Americans.

[Dr Fate]

28. I'll buy that definition too.

I dont see how calling her a "fascist corporwhore" does any good- we can agree on that part.

I do pretty good at talking to ordinary Americans myself- as opposed to unfunny, elitist caricatures of people who live in low-income trailer parks.

But good luck to you- if you think you can get right-leaning people to donate time & money to Democrats, go for it. I've honestly never seen that.

[MrBenchley]

30. I don't think the mass of Americans are right-leaning....

but I do know that you don't reach them by lecturing them about what "the people" want or by calling them sheeple...

And I doubt any of them would spout the silliness about Tim Kaine you see here.

[Dr Fate]

33. Hey- we agree on that much.

I'll hold any comments about Tim Kaine until I see what he has to say.

[MrBenchley]

37. I suspect he's going to be okay....

But then the response to the SOTU is almost always a big yawn. About the only memorable one I've ever heard in my life was Republican Steve Largent, who responded to one of Clinton's addresses by explaining to the nation that he had once been a football player and that he had no idea what the letters GOP stood for.

[Dr Fate]

40. "always a big yawn." It does not have to be that way.

Which is the ultimate point that some on this thread are making- albeit, in a "loony left" kind of way. ;)

[MrBenchley]

42. Sure it does...

Most Americans are going to ignore the SOTU, and those that don't will either be hard core political junkies (unlikely to be converted) or will have tuned out long before the response comes up.

[Dr Fate]

50. Conventional political wisdom has failed us many times since 2000.

Who says we have to have a boring response?

I'd prefer Kerry, Dean or even Hillary give it.

But as far as doing the same old boring thing goes, you are right, who would want to watch it, much less be inspired by it?

[MrBenchley]

60. Actually, that's very funny...

Considering what a consistent flop the far left has been over the years.

But I can't imagine much of anybody tuning in to pResident Turd, much less hanging on to see what else is in the show.

[Dr Fate]

65. I did not know the "far left" controlled much of anything the top DEMs did

It was the "far left" and some moderates who begged the DEMs not to go into Iraq. Now that WAS a flop, but not on the part of any far left types. Most voters now agree with them, in fact.

I did not see much "far left" input into any of the moves we made or did not make during the last 3 election cycles.

When did the Dems leadership start consulting Micheal Moore, Wavy Gravy and Noam Chomsky or even John Conyers? I missed all of that. ;)

[MrBenchley]

67. No, there's no reason to pay attention to them at all....

They've never been worth a pitcher of warm spit.

[Dr Fate]

68. John Conyers(D) is not worth "a pitcher of warm spit?"

He was 100% right on Iraq, while many of your DLC people were and are 100% wrong.

And the "normal people" in the public agrees with him and me on Iraq now, not you.

Keep it dry, Powderboy.

[Pastiche423]

11. Who chose him?

[saltpoint]

13. I like Kaine and would have voted for him had I lived in Virginia.

But he's so dull as a speaker he could put a hyperactive chimpanzee into a coma.

Would have chosen Tom Harkin myself.

[IndianaGreen]

54. You are obviously hetero

because if you were LGBT you would have probably passed on Kaine.

[saltpoint]

69. How is it, you good person you, that you are able to discern

one's sexual orientation based on a few sentences and sentiments on a distant gubernatorial candidate?

My opinion of Kaine is not framed unaware of his ridiculously conservative view of gay marriage, etc., but encompasses it. I don't expect governors or senators or anybody else to conform to my left-of-center and emphatically pro-LGBTQ viewpoints.

I'll take Kaine over his nitwit opponent in the VA gov. race any day of the week, even if I have sharp disagreements with him on a key issue.

IndianaGreen, I mean what I say about the 'you good person you' up there. I've enjoyed your posts for their clarity and vibrancy and insight.

All good wishes.

[mrgorth]

15. Note to all

He HAS to be better than Pelosi. I'd rather it be Dean but please, ANYBODY but Pelosi.

[Poiuyt]

17. I wish he would use the opportunity to tell what Democrats stand for

Everyone keeps saying that the Democrats have no agenda. Well, here we have the perfect time with a national audience to say something about who we are (and how we're not fascist war criminals, etc)

[tishaLA]

18. Antonio Villaraigosa is doing the Spanish-language response

And he's my mayor so I think I'll watch him on Telemundo or something. He's a very good speaker, he's a progressive, and he's handsome!

[TahitiNut]

21. Villaraigosa is excellent.

He's a keeper. :thumbsup:

[MaineDem]

57. Sorry, I missed your post

He's a very good speaker. His presentation should be fine!

[SaveElmer]

20. Howard Dean's view of Tim Kaine...

"Tim Kaine is a wonderful fresh face who speaks from the heart about his values," said Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean.



Why doesn't everyone just wait to see what he says before you go ape-shit over it!!!

[MrBenchley]

24. Great post...

Did you see the thread yesterday attacking Charles Schumer for not voting against cloture (he did vote against cloture) and for not opposing Alito (he did vote against Alito)?

[SaveElmer]

27. I've been trying not to post too much today...

I know those who were somehow surprised at the outcome had to vent their anger. I do find these posts encouraging a purge amusing however. And the one calling for the ouster of Dean as DNC chairman.

[MrBenchley]

29. I saw that "let's purge Dean" thread....

It still amazes me to encounter people on a political discussion board who are utterly ignorant of what we used to call in my day "basic civics"...but there they are.

[SaveElmer]

31. Yeah it is true...

Probably representative of the country as a whole...

btw: I saw you got called out by name on a thread about the term "loonie left." I have been told that it is against the rules to call out another member. In fact I had posts deleted for that reason. I alerted the mods, but of course they ignored it.

[MrBenchley]

35. I'm used to it by now....

Nothing shows the dishonesty and true nature of the loony left than their Junior Joe McCarthy Club tactics. When they're not trying to "purge" people, they're distorting what their critics say.

[Dr Fate]

32. And we saw your "Dean needs to shut up" posts too.

The ones where you admonished Dean for telling the truth about the US position in Iraq.

So spare us your lectures on what people can and cant criticise.
ALL of them could stand criticism on one issue or the other.

I'll agree with you that Dean was not the problem- it was the "DLC types" (for lack of a better term) who killed the filibuster, not Dean.

If anyone needs to be "cut-off"- its them.
They should ask these phantom right-leaning donors that you claim exist for help.

[MrBenchley]

34. You mean the posts about Dean's gaffe in San Antonio?

The one he ran around doing damage control for?

Funny how, if "we can't win" is the truth, Dean went around saying "we have to win" as loudly as he could within 48 hours.

And i'll lecture on what or who I please...including the folks who don't know what the role of the party chairman entails, and let the rest of the board know it by posting ignorant gibberish.

[Dr Fate]

36. Exactly- so stop pretending to defend him.

Those posts demonstrated that you would like him purged yourself- or would at least like him to have a position closer to Bush on Iraq.

It's the DLC types who could not stand up to Bush, not Dean.

[MrBenchley]

38. Those posts showed no such thing....

And I've never called for Dean to be purged.

[Dr Fate]

43. You just want some of his IDEAS to be purged.

His "loony left" ideas, to be specific.

And there is nothing wrong with that- but you come down people who want to do the same with right-leaning ideas and DEMS they disagree with.

[MrBenchley]

46. Again, says who?

I yet to see ANY ideas from the loony left besides let's purge the DLC and let's stomp off in a huff and have a third party. (And yet the next day dawns and here they are, still pisdsing and moaning about how awful the Democrats are). Not even the leftists here seem to give a shit about the PDA and their proposals, which always seem to me nothing but high-sounding blah.

And Dr. Dean's ideas are such that Business Week once compared him to a Rockefeller Republican. In fact, one reason his candidacy failed to ignite much enthusiasm among mainstream Dems was that he was too conservative for their taste, compared to folks like Edwards and Kerry (both DLCers.)

[Dr Fate]

48. Okay, so you welcome his ideas on Iraq then.

Sorry if I got that wrong!

[MrBenchley]

59. LOL!

Yeah, I recognize that when he opened his yap, even he knew he made amistake.

[Dr Fate]

63. Yes- let us "praise" how he handled that. n/t

n/t

[SaveElmer]

41. It is clear you didn't bother to read through the threads completely...

MrBenchley was right in his criticism of Dean. I made the same criticism of him as well. And we both praised Dean for his quick recognition of that fact and the skillful damage control he executed. I believe we both went on to praise Dean in general for the work he was doing rebuilding the Democratic Party around the country.

Unlike those who whine and complain when one vote does not go their way, we did not call for a purge on anyone.

[MrBenchley]

44. Nor did he read the thread we mentioned

which consisted almost entirely of people unaware what a party chairman does.....

[Dr Fate]

49. I'm sure I missed out on many pearls of wisdom. n/t

n/t

[Dr Fate]

45. I dont remember him being "praised" for damage control at all.

I remember it being held up as "proof" that "Dean goofed."

[SaveElmer]

47. Go back and take a look...

You will find I am right...I had a discussion on this very topic with MrBenchley

[Dr Fate]

51. I saw several posts saying the same thing in different threads...

...so perhaps it depends on what thread. It seemed to be "meme" for a day or two- showing up in at least 3 threads.

I remember it being framed as a "Dean goofed- he is turning off pro-war centrists" thing, not a "Dean is great" thing.

[SaveElmer]

53. There were several threads....

And I did not post on all of them. What you say was part of the argument. Dean made an error in the way he framed his comments. They did not appear to be well thought out, and he made his point in such a way as to give the Republicans a 2 day feast. To his credit, Dean himself recognized the error, and limited the damage very well.

[Dr Fate]

55. Your average Swing-voter does not even know about his quote.

And if they DID know about it, they would have AGREED with him.

My guess is that Dean refined the statement due to raspberries from the DLC wing, not due to any real back-lash from average, moderate voters- who mostly agree with Dean on Iraq.

Anyway- I'll take your word for it for the sake of argument- Mr.Benchly is apparently a staunch defender of Dean and his policies, and would never speak ill of a fellow DEM.

[MrBenchley]

61. Hahahhahaha....

What a weird world you live in, where the average swing voter doesn't notice something that made headlines around the country, but is hanging by his fingernails waiting to hear the response to the state of the union.

[Dr Fate]

62. In the world where most people skip to the sports page....

...and in the world where most people obsess over the latest missing girl rather than political tit for tat.

The guy on the bus I talked to had not heard about it- and most of my relatives I talked to in our family e-mail loop missed that one too.

Most folks dont watch CNN or read DU, they read the papers and watch local news, focusing on headlines that they care about.

Believe what you want, but I'll bet you could go into a bar or hang-out tonight and ask everyone in there about it- I'll bet 2 people at the most will even vaugely know what you are talking about.

Try it and give me an hhonest report if you feel like it- its unscientific but fun to do this kind of thing.

In fact some of them will even say "He said that? Whats wrong with that? He is right."

[MrBenchley]

64. LOL!

"In fact some of them will even say "He said that? Whats wrong with that? He is right.""
Which is why he had to retract it almost immediately.

[Dr Fate]

66. That has been my experience.

Try it yourself- you claim to be able to talk to normal people. The latest polls back that up too.

[IndianaGreen]

52. A homophobe, Gov. Tim Kaine

Not only is Kaine opposed to same sex marriage and civil unions, but he also supports an amendment that forbids gay and lesbian couples from having any kind of legal agreement: no durable powers of attorney, no wills, no nothing.

(Thanks to dsc for the additional info).

[MaineDem]

56. The LA Mayor, Villariagosa, is as well

His response may be in Spanish.

[Hekate]

58. LOU DOBBS! Just gave a terrific "pre-sponse" and kicked some Bush tush!

Royally!

Hekate