Just Curious: Wy Do You Think Gore Picked LIEberman In 2000?

[Dinger]

It's been too long, and I'm old and don't remember like I used to. Was the decision made for him? Who were the other contenders? Why, Why, Why???

[Zenlitened]

1. The Clenis.

It was all about the Clenis.

:crazy:

[Dinger]

3. O.K., I Am Ignorant.

what do you mean by Clenis? (& no, I'm not kidding)

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Clinton it is an insdie joke about his penis

clenis, well you get the picture

[Le Taz Hot]

22. I know no one will believe this

but the word "clenis" was introduced on this board by yours truly -- it's shorthand for "Clinton's penis."

[Zenlitened]

33. Did you really? That's so cool!

I bow to your greatness. :hi:

[tandem5]

48. like your sig picture...

I should get one for my car... I owe His noodliness that much!

[Mass]

2. He wanted to be as far as possible to Clinton and tout family values

Lieberman had criticized Clinton on Monica a lot.

I think the two other contenders were Kerry and Edwards. IMHO, it was a really poorly inspired choice.

[calico1]

8. Right. Plus Lieberman did not have any

skeletons in the closet. Squeaky clean reputation at the time.

[guidod]

36. You're right...

He distanced himself from Clinton because of family values. That's when the repugs took over this government.

[Catchawave]

51. Edwards was on his short list.

Here's a USA Today opinion piece:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/vp.htm

[catmother]

5. i think it was a bad choice and might have hurt him. lieberman

is a jew whose wife's name is Haddasah. there are still many in this country who do not want a jew in a position so close to the presidency.

[kurth]

7. Hmmm... unlike the Jewish neocons in the Bush government?

[catmother]

23. i think it's different when it's a vice president. i absolutely love

russ feingold, but i wonder if his ethnicity will hurt him if he runs for pres.

[Yollam]

31. Especially in the south, the one place Gore was strong.

They're also not crazy about "yankee" types down there to begin with. He should've picked a western or midwestern moderate, and he would have won his home state, which would've been enough to offset the chicanery in Florida, IMO.

But that's all water under the bridge now...

[tn-guy]

39. ????? Gore was strong in the south????!!!!!?!?

Did I miss something? How many southern states did Gore carry?

[Yollam]

42. He was very close in several, including TN.

I think the anti-semite bigot vote might have had more than a little to do with that...

[onenote]

44. of course without lieberman, gore would've lost florida

he won it (before it was stolen) because of lieberman. I'll trade florida for tennessee.

[Yollam]

55. I doubt it.

The Jewish vote in S. FL is strong, but so are the Dixiecrats in N. FL. And not all Jewish voters are conservatives or fans of Lieberman's.

I will qualify that I should have said that the South was where Gore would have been THEORETICALLY stronger. But unlike Clinton, he didn't really play up his southern roots, and certainly wasn't "folksy".

This is a very difficult thing to debate since there's no real empirical way to back up assertions on either side - it's all a matter of how we perceive these regions. I lived in S. FL at the time, and democrats that I knew were not enthused for Lieberman (or Gore for that matter).

But I personally think that Lieberman was a bad pick, since he was supposed to attract conservative democrats, many of whom he repelled by being Jewish.

Of course, there is nothing more sad than the fact that we have to consider a potential candidate's gender, ethnicity and religion's effect on his/her "winnability". I hate that. My only personal qualms with Lieberman are his right-leaning attitudes and shameless bush sycophancy.

[Clark2008]

58. Yeah. I was going to say that the reason Gore lost

Tennessee is because he didn't campaign here. He took it for granted, unfortunately. He let the gun people run around and allege to hunters that Gore was going to "take their guns" without answering the charge, effectively.,

That said, I voted for the man and would vote for him again, provided Clark doesn't enter the primaries (but I'd be a Gore gal if he runs and Clark doesn't).

[Yollam]

59. I wish I had voted for him.

I had just come back from Japan, and my perceptions of US politics were colored by having only read about them in the Japanese media. There was very little coverage of "Monicagate" over there, so it just seemed like a minor blip in an otherwise successful and popular presidency to me. I had no idea of the ascendancey of right-wing media or the whole scandal circus that had gone on in my absence. The economy was good, and I figured that Gore had it sewed up. Since a Gore landslide was inevitable (in my mind), I logged a protest vote (in Florida, no less :( ) for Nader, because I was irked at Gore's centrism - he seemed almost the same on most issues as Bush, who at the time was masquerading as a moderate "compassionate conservative".

:(

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

63. I feel for you. My husband voted for Nader

but he has always maintained that it was a "protest" vote for the issues Nader stood for (essentially against lobbyists and for campaign finance reform and he did it in a state that was absolutely positively going to go for Bush by a wide margin anyway. )This vote has been the fodder for many delightful conversations since. I am really sorry that you lodged your protest vote in Florida, but, hey, we all live and learn. I think it is absolutely fine to vote your conscience and go with the underdog, but I think voting to "protest" or "send a message" when you really don't subscribe to the candidate overall is a very bad policy. It's a really really bad policy when the vote is cast in a state that might be anywhere close to undecided.

I think the summary of your feelings was great "a Gore landslide was inevitable". Even George Bush himself said he didn't expect a win because it would be against an administration that had brought "peace and prosperity" (not an accurate word for word quote, but close. We will always have to thank our current misery to the Supreme Court of the United States who STOPPED a recount and APPOINTED a President and who also said "oh, by the way, this doesn't create a precedent". The Bush appointment will go down in history as the MOST f!@#ked up decision ever in the history of the court.

[benEzra]

61. It was NOT about hunting, or hunters...

4 out of 5 gun owners ARE NOT HUNTERS.

The gun prohibitionist lobby, primarily the group "Americans for Gun Safety," counseled the Gore campaign that if he made his support for hunting and hunting guns loud and clear, he could go after nonhunting guns with impunity.

Problem is, most gun owners don't hunt, and a LOT of gun owners own guns the prohibitionists were/are trying to ban: over-10-round guns, guns with modern styling, etc.

Gore's problems among gun owners didn't have anything to do with hunting; it was the fact that he got sucked into supporting the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch.

The ban-nonhunting-guns mantra was a big reason why W pulled 50% of union members in West Virginia. Fifty percent.

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=97165

[Clark2008]

62. I know that, but that's not what happened here.

It was spread through the hunting community.

That was my point.

[RagingInMiami]

6. The Jewish vote was suppose to help in South Florida

which is blue, but because of all the right-wing Cubans who were pissed off at Clinton for sending Elian back to Cuba, they were vowing to vote against Gore. South Florida has one of the largest Jewish communities in the country.

[FloridaPat]

16. BUT - had the butterfly ballot not existed in W. Palm Beach, Gore

would have won Florida. That was a lot of Jewish people voted there.

[RagingInMiami]

17. Exactly

The Butterfly Ballot was Jeb Bush's defense against Al Gore's Jewish running mate.

[catmother]

26. yes. and do you remember all the jewish votes buchannan -- the

nazi got because of the confusion on the ballot. buchannan has said many times that he knew those votes were not for him.

[marylanddem]

9. Because Lieberman had blasted Clinton during the Monica mess

And Al mistakenly thought distancing himself from Clinton would help him win. Big mistake. And, clearly, by that move Al helped raise
Lieberman's profile to national status. So now everytime we turn on TV or radio there's that shithead Lieberman pontificating, and
usually along Republican lines. Lieberman is a disgrace and embarrassment and I wish Al Gore would apologize for boosting the POS's
career.

P.S. I love Al Gore dearly and would vote for him again in a heartbeat - but hope he'd choose more wisely in the future.

[calico1]

11. I'll bet he does feel sorry now. n/t

[iconoclastNYC]

10. The DLC.

The DLC wanted Liberman in there as a check against Gore's populist leanings. I'm not sure why Gore felt he had to bow down to the DLC, but the DLC is evil and we work to ensure that it's power is destroyed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Maybe he was thinking it would strengthen him -- he would draw

the populist vote, and Lieberman would mollify the conservative wing.

Not that it mattered, since * stole the election anyway. It just made it a little easier, so they didn't have to steal millions like they did in '04.

[iconoclastNYC]

24. More sinister: I'm thinking it was forced on him.

The DLC has way too much power and they have a lot of pull with the media.

[peacetalksforall]

60. Iconoclast - you are right. It's absolutely sound to say DLC. That

decision came first, then the rational followed.

I was one who was thrilled that Leiberman was Jewish. I now kick myself for not investigating his positions before I went overboard. Perhaps there wasn't much to investigate. He seems to have been born again into the right wing. It's always been my suspicion that the right wing has promised him something - a future role in Carlyle or something like that. It had to be worthwhile to withstand the criticism and outspoken attacks on him by many Democrats. (I was happy to hear that there are organized attempts in CT to do something).

One tidbit I remember from 2000 - in the circle of money laundering that takes our tax money and puts it into the pockets of our congressional leaders - Joe had a very big pocket. There seemed to be some Cuban-Americans who accepted him. There used to be a list on the internet showing which Senators and Congresspersons got the most money from CANF and the other Cuban American associations*. Joe was out there on top as far as $$$. That must mean he was an all out supporter, friend, and activist for the interests of Cuban-Americans. Unprecendented privileges for emigres in comparison to those from Haiti, Central America or other countries. Tons of money to set up new companies to propgandize against Castro. Money that made some Cubans rich.

So did the DLC take advangtage of that? I've always felt that Al did not pick Joe, that he was 'given' Joe.

* circle of taxpayer money: We pay taxes, congress decides what to do with it, Joe and others designate big amounts for NED, NED gives it to CANF and some others, CANF and others take some of that money and put it in the pockets of Joe and others.

[Vickers]

12. I dunno, but I regret that he ever did.

Gore is such an inspiring guy, and he picked such an UNINSPIRING running mate.

[Tom Joad]

13. Because they agree on basic issues.

I don't hear Gore calling for an immediate withdraw from Iraq. I don't hear Gore calling for an end to US support for the extremist policies of Israel. Do we hear Al Gore calling for an end to threats against Iran? Do we hear Gore say something about Israel's nukes, and its refusal to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?

Gore's talk on domestic spying was good, but I think on the fundamentals of foreign policy, LIEberman and Gore are in basic agreement. Otherwise you would be accusing Gore of putting someone "a heartbeat away" whose values he did not agree with.


Besides, Gore's record in the Senate backs that up.

Another possible reason is that he wanted progressives to go to Nader. Certainly had that effect.

[mattclearing]

14. Gore was against the war to begin with.

He endorsed Howard Dean in '04. Nice try, though.

[Tom Joad]

28. He supports an immediate withdrawal? Did he oppose sanctions

continued by the Clinton administration? that killed hundreds of thousands? did he agree with Albright that it "was worth it"?
Dean opposes an immediate withdrawal too. That is not me "trying" anything. that is just where me and some other folks part ways.

If he is so different than lieberman, why did he choose him as VP?

[radio4progressives]

34. the DLC chose Lieberman - and Veep pre cheney didn't make Foreign Policy

That was the DLC making Foreign Policy.

Not Gore's call, and he was not empowered to speak out in public against Clinton..

Gore was very adementaly opposed to the invasion of Iraq and passionately spoke out on this issue before and after the invasion.

[mattclearing]

49. There are plenty of answers to that in this thread.

You clearly have a lot of venom for Gore, who has adopted a much more progressive stance since 2000. As far as I'm concerned, it's better late than never.

Immediate withdrawal is almost as dumb as invading was in the first place. It's not a policy, it's a rally slogan, and it does nothing to right the situation we created there. Any plan for Iraq has to involve first discarding the Bush Administration's strategies, which are that of occupying imperialism. We put the reconstruction contracts up for international bid. Then we get our troops out of sight, train a legitimate Iraqi police force and leave.

Immediate withdrawal is wholly irresponsible and would result in chaos, allowing Iraq's civil war to worsen, which would be directly attributable to our decision to invade. Not an option.

[Yollam]

15. Well, Gore was coming off a popular, two-term presidency...

...so the idea was probably to negate Clinton's massive charisma via the completely charisma-free Lieberman.

He also thought Lieberman's jewish heritage would be a hit with right-leaning southern democrats, and he knew that Lieberman's right-leaning beliefs would really attract the liberal base.

A brilliant choice all around, I think.

:sarcasm:

[karynnj]

18. To counter the Clinton sexual problem

Both Kerry and Edwards were said by Gore to be on his short list. This was part of why Kerry said he would say nothing till the choice was made and accepted. (Gore even gave Kerry a Kerry 08 shirt at a St Patrick's day thing in Boston).

[AtomicKitten]

19. it wasn't a bad choice THEN because Gore won by over 500,000 votes

of course that was BEFORE Lieberman became Bush's butt-buddy.

[Apollo11]

21. Two reasons

1. To send a clear message that Gore strongly disapproved of Clinton's misbehavior in the Oval office with a young and vulnerable intern. Lieberman had openly criticised Bill Clinton's behavior in a way that Al Gore, as Vice-President, could not.

2. Gore strongly believes in diversity and he does not believe that America should be run exclusively by white Christian men. There has never been a Jewish President or VP in the history of the USA. Just like Mondale picked Ferraro, Gore picked Lieberman.


But of course since then, Gore and Lieberman have drifted far apart on many of the most important issues. If Gore runs again for President, he will pick someone who has stood up against the Bush Administration on Iraq and other big issues since 2000.


In Gore We Trust
www.algore.org
:)

[Orangepeel]

47. Two more reasons

3. The campaign bet a lot on Florida, and the choice of a Jewish running mate helped here. It would have worked, too, in a half-way honest election

4. Less generously, I think that Gore probably liked that Lieberman is charisma-challenged. No President wants a VP who overshadows him (hopefully, some day soon, him/her will be more appropriate)

[liberalpragmatist]

25. Because Gore was a centrist

People have this bizarre idea that Al Gore was always some fire-breathing populist out to slay the DLC and the Establishment. I have to wonder, were they paying attention? Or have they at least read some recent political history?

Gore was on the right-end flank of Senate Democrats. Although I don't know whether he or Lieberman were particularly close in the Senate, ideologically, they were very similar. Both were among the few Democrats to vote for the first Gulf War. Gore was known as being one of the most hawkish Democrats in Congress and among the most Conservative, with close relationships with several Republicans. Both had spoken out about "traditional family values" and taken on the music and entertainment industries. Gore was known for his championing of tobacco farmers and the tobacco industry. He was (and still is) an ardent free-trader and one of the founders of the DLC. Gore was actually MORE conservative than Lieberman on many social issues, including abortion and gay rights. And despite their conservative stands on several issues, BOTH Gore and Lieberman were and are strongly pro-environment.

Gore did move more towards the left during his Vice Presidency, but he still remained a Centrist. And remember, that for all his populist-talk during the '00 campaign, his actual campaign positions were pretty much Centrist.

It's ridiculous to claim that somehow the DLC forced Gore to accept Lieberman. Gore CHOSE Lieberman because he was ideologically close to him, and because Lieberman had been highly critical of Clinton during the impeachment fracas (something of which I approve). Also, Gore probably believed that Lieberman's Jewish background would play well, and it's important to remember that it did initially. The pick garnered a lot of positive press and greatly boosted the campaign at the time. Now, whether Lieberman ultimately underperformed, that can be argued, as his debate performance with Cheney was terrible and his backing for the Florida recount was somewhat half-hearted.

Now, since then, Gore has moved more firmly left, although in many ways he remains quite Centrist. Ideologically, the two aren't that close anymore, although it does have to be remembered that Lieberman is still basically a mainstream Democrat in his voting record - it's his overall voting record. It's mainly rhetorical that he leaves the ranch. I also think DU'ers and the blogosphere gave Lieberman WAY too much attention. He's a lone senator who speaks for himself. Every large party - even successful ones - have their lone nuts who stray off the ranch. Big deal. He gets some attention but he's largely irrelevant on the war debate (which is where most liberals have problems with him). He's our side's Chuck Hagel at this point.

[Adelante]

27. Well said nt

[Tom Joad]

29. Good points.

Though ironic that a man that supported such deadly sanctions upon the people of Iraq should be called a "centrist".

[Yollam]

32. Yes, Gore was and is a centrist - so why pick a right-winger?

Lieberman is no centrist.

[emulatorloo]

35. I am no fan of liebermann, but his voting record is not "right wing"

Other than his nuttiness about the Iraq war.

American for Democratic Action (liberal lobbying group) Lifetime Rating - 76
American Conservative Union - 0

[liberalpragmatist]

37. Well, if you call Lieberman a right-winger...

... than by your standards, Sen. Al Gore was also a right-winger. The ideological space between them was quite slim until the past couple years.

[Yollam]

38. Going strictly from voting records, maybe so...

...and some people are willing to give Lieberman some leeway because he marched with King back in the day. But on crucial votes (and none were more crucial than the IWR) he has gone with the right-wing position, He has voted for cloture on right-wing judges, and his rhetoric is consistently aimed at pleasing conservatives.

In 1991, Lieberman and Gore were two of 10 Democrats to vote early on for military action against Baghdad, giving Bush sr. the green light for the bombing campaign. Another 45 Dems voted no, so at that key moment they proved their open identification with U.S. militarism.

Lieberman backs the "National Missile Defense" gimmicks.

Lieberman campaigned and voted for Clinton's "welfare reform." which pushed millions off welfare and failed to provide child care or health insurance. Welfare recipients now would have to work at an office or a factory instead of caring for their children. Only a tiny few have found jobs with decent pay and benefits.

Lieberman supports school vouchers that would subsidize private schools and defund public education.



So yes, Gore has been further right than I would have liked (another reason the ticket should have been balanced with a moderate, rather than a rightie), but these votes alone are unacceptable to any progressive I know of.

[FormerDittoHead]

30. To appeal to the Republicans? Couldn't do much better.

Joe, you've let us down so many times before however....

Joe did come through with Alito, so props for the one-stop "Joementium!"

[patrioticliberal]

40. DLC

[patrioticliberal]

41. Donna Brazille

[Totally Committed]

50. I totally agree with both those answers, patrioticliberal!

He unfortunately allowed these two entities to run his campign into the ground, just as the last one was. The DLC and Brazile delivered a DOA Gore to Florida, fresh for the killing. I'm not saying that election in FL wasn't stolen... I believe it was. But, a stronger Gore with a hell of a lot more fight was prevented and assured by these two things. And, as I said, we didn't learn the lesson in 2004, either. Let's hope 2008 finds the DLC, all its operatives, all its "advisors", and all its candidates sidelined. so we have a chance to actually, maybe, possibly win.

TC

[dsc]

43. He had several reasons

Both had voted for the first Gulf War, he wanted to make history with his appointee, he wanted to distance himself from Clinton, and he both knew and liked Lieberman.

[tatertop]

45. death wish

[AlGore-08.com]

46. There were a number of very good reasons which have not been listed

But first, I begin with the caveat that Gore and Lieberman have long since parted company (which was Lieberman's doing). If Gore picked Lieberman for his 2008 running mate, I will eat my hat.

However, 2000 was a different time, with a much different political zeitgeist. Gore began his campaign one month after the impeachment of Clinton, and as a result, was polling 20 points behind. The press attacked Gore mercilessly because he was Clinton's VP, and most of the party machine was happy for Gore to loose in a landslide so that they could all put the Clinton Admin behind them.

1.) (Already listed) Lieberman was popular with conservative Democrats, as well as the swing state moderates who were furious at Clinton.

2.) The establishment left LOVED Joe Lieberman. If you don't believe me, check out some of Arianna Huffington's old articles.

3.) The press LOVED Joe Lieberman. Picking Lieberman gave Gore the only positive press cycle in his entire campaign.

4.) The far right religious conservatives LOVED Joe Lieberman. Lieberman was probably the only Dem who could shave even a little off that GOP base.

5.) It gave Gore a boost in the polls.

6.) If Gore had been allowed to serve, he would have had to deal with the same Congress that we've all seen in action. It is not a Congress full of progressives - - it's a Congress full of Conservatives. And the thing that Progressives hate about Lieberman - - his ability to work with Congressional Conservatives - - would have been invaluable to passing Gore's agenda.

7.) Principle: when considering Vice Presidential candidates, it was discussed whether America was "ready" for a Jewish Vice President. Gore's response was "If it isn't, it ought to be." What would y'all have thought if Gore (or any other Presidential candidate) had said the opposite - - and picked a Protestant instead?

[0007]

52. Tipper and Donna Brazile and Lieberman all held hands

and said phooey to the big dog.

[zann725]

53. Lieberman THEN...had not yet shown his true "face"...as I recall.

Or at least he'd had NOT yet kissed his Repug Prez/Prince.

[Totally Committed]

54. All that anti-Clinton "tsk, tsk, tsk..." speechifiying from the Senate

floor should have been a tip-off. Holy Joeses had his say, as I recall, and that was one of the reasons (it was said) Brazile urged Gore to go with him. He "distanced" the Gore campaign from the Clinton White House. Hindsight being 20-20, I admit, but now that seems like the totally wrong thing tactically.

TC

[donsu]

56. I always thought Lieb was thrust on Gore in some way

and for whatever reason he was forced to go along

??

[SaveElmer]

57. A mistaken attempt to run from Clinton...

In retrospect probably not a great idea...although I think Lieberman did fine as a VP candidate. He should have been better prepared for his debate with Cheney however!

[FrenchieCat]

64. Beats me!

:shrug: