Randi Rhodes leading up to LIHOP?

[mantis49]

She's talking about what they knew, when they knew it, and why didn't they stop it?

Said "Who would have benefited from letting it happen?"

I listen to her several times a week and she's always backed away from conspiracy until now. Usually says she's not ready to go there.

This is springing from SOTU, when * said if he had the power to eavesdrop before 9/11, they could have prevented it.

[FlaGranny]

1. Yes, I've been listening to her long before

Air America. She has always said she wouldn't go there. She is slowly changing her mind. The more she learns, the more she believes LIHOP.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. It was on Rhandi's show I first heard about the complete lack

air defense and the weird suspension of air traffic SOP on 9/11.

[FlaGranny]

8. She talked a lot about it, but

she believed it was sheer incompetence and wasn't willing to believe they knew about it beforehand.

[stop the bleeding]

3. listening now but missed her LIHOP - any more details ??? n/t

[mantis49]

4. Talking about Negroponte now and

Iran-Contra.

She took a call after that provocative question and has shifted gears a little. Maybe she'll get back to it.

[Chimichurri]

5. she's talked about it before - l

did a whole show about how NORAD was told to stand-down, about the simulated attacks going on that same day and the FAA tapes that were cut up into little pieces and thrown out. She spoke about how Cheney was in charge and how the planes were in mid air making all kinds of turns for 40 minutes + and no NORAD to bring them down b/c they were told not to react. She went on to explain and had guests to verify that whenenver a plane veers off course, NORAD is activated within the 1st 4 minutes. I learned a ton that day and I remember it clearly because I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

It's one of her greatest shows and her site should have it archived. Wish I could give you the exact date - it may have been in the spring or summer of 2004.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. That was the show I heard. n/t

[longship]

6. Total incompetence.

I cannot believe that they did this through any deliberation. I do not think that an administration that fucked up Katrina so badly, fucked up Iraq so badly, and fucked up virtually everything else they've touched so badly has the competence to see far enough ahead to conspire to LIHOP. 9/11 happened because they incompetently did nothing to stop it.

Predicting things is not within these guys' job descriptions. They are *never* proactive, but are purely reactive, except for in one, and only one, domain. Politics. They are as purely political as any regime in history. They view every single issue through the lens of political gain to the exclusion of virtually everything else. They let things like 9/11 and the Katrina debacle happen because those events have absolutely zero existence in the political sphere in which the neocons operate.

That's why their solutions to problems are always a political response rather than actually doing something about it. They have their ideology and their political agenda and absolutely nothing practical issue-oriented engagement is going to stop them from advancing both.

Until the opposition realizes these hard, cold facts we will not succeed in bringing them down. Screaming about LIHOP, MIHOP, or trying to engage the neocons in any other sphere other than the political must fail. The extent to which we do not fight them in that arena is the extent to which we are wasting our time. Issues mean nothing to them--absolutely nothing. The only way this will work is for the opposition to become totally unbending and united against them. We need to make sure everybody in this country is aware of the game that the neocons play. That should be our sole agenda. All our talking points need to be framed in that one issue.

We've got work to do, people. Contact your county Democratic Party and become a precinct committee person. We need to fight this battle from the bottom up. That's the only way we're going to succeed. We've got precious few months left to get our shit together.

[Sejanus]

10. Conspiracy of the Dunces?

A thousand AMENS-when we run this goofy crap, the average Joe sixpack runs away-we must show we are more competent than the Republicans and stop wasting our energies chasing ghosts.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

13. Check this out. It may not have been incompetence in any of the cases.

This post at the url is based on what Krugman wrote in "The Great Unraveling..."

After rereading part of it, and thinking it over, I am even more to believe in the LIHOP or MIHOP theories.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2430488&mesg_id=2430488

[springhill]

27. Total incompetence my ass!!!!

You think the Katrina debacle was because they didn't know what they were doing? Everyone should know by now, THEY DON'T THINK IT'S THEIR JOB! They didn't do anything because they don't believe the government should play any part in helping the people of this country. No medical insurance, no pensions, no social security. They want it all gone.

[slampoet]

30. So if you think the Katrina wasn't on purpose?

You are saying that
those split screens of Bush
and the help Finally arriving five days late,
happened by coincidence?

Don't be foolish.

[springhill]

33. No, I am not........

And I would say that you are really the foolish one. You think they're just incompetent. There is a very deliberate move to make the government non=existent when it comes to the aid of the people. The only thing they want is to be able to start wars whenever they want and let the corporations do their thing.

They obviously had to show up, for now, but all you had to do was listen to Brown at the hearings to hear his total disdain that the Federal Government should shoulder any responsibility for the debacle.

[windbreeze]

31. Absolutely...no such thing as incompetence...

Planned, Plotted for years...1963 Operation Northwoods.... ever read about this...??? the gov't, YES, OUR OWN GOVT'S intent to bomb American cities, attack American Military...kill American citizens...in order to justify deposing Castro to the American people??? because the attacks were going to be blamed on Castro.......Kennedy nixed it...but, a lot of the guys in the current admin. WERE IN the gov't then...and KNEW about what the plan entailed...think they forgot about it???
WHY WOULD BIN LADEN ATTACK US...WHEN HE WAS A BUSINESS PARTNER OF THE BUSHES????and after BUSH awarded Bin Laden's TALIBAN, the ruling faction in Afghanistan, in MAY of 2001...$43 MILLION BUCKS.....and in fact SR. BUSH...SR BIN LADEN were at the Ritz Carlton in DC for the annual meeting of the Carlyle Group...when 9/11 happened...9/12,the agency rounded up 154 SAUDI'S and FLEW THEM OUT OF this country, (including BinLaden's immediate family)when our own citizens were stranded in airports all over the nation, and our airlines couldn't FLY...I might add, that our commercial airlines have NEVER fully recovered...Who put the stock options on American and United....BEFORE the attack...WHY did Marvin Bush give up his security contract on the WTC on 9/10...how about the survivors in the basement of the WTC...that heard explosions BEFORE the planes hit the upper floors...????incompetence...

1997 the PNAC released it's white paper...calling for a new "Pearl Harbor"....and we can still convince ourselves this was incompetence..???

9/11/01...In my book, that new "Pearl Harbor" took place...(amazing how NORAD could find Payne Stewart's plane within minutes, but couldn't find any of our missing aircraft on 9/11)
wb

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iconoclastNYC]

9. I'm convinced it was either LIHOP or MIHOP.

I'm sorry but the Military protects the airspace and they are not incompetent. They were told to stand down.

[Sejanus]

11. Competence?

What are you drinking-let me know so I can avoid it like Dracula avoids sunburns-Our military competent?-Just thumb through any book on the Battle of Tarawa

[iconoclastNYC]

15. LOL...

Whatever dude. One battle proves nothing. And we're talking about NORAD and the Air Force, not ground troops.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. I am convinced the government conspiracy theory is full of holes.

Lots of holes, big and small.

The only evidence I have of LIHOP is circumstantial. No air defense, bush opposed and obstructed the investigation. Movement of top administration people and military.

The fact that our government is pushing a ridicules and laughable conspiracy theory down our throats I find to be very motivational in terms of the mid-term elections.

[iconoclastNYC]

16. Ok, and the 911 commission report is rock solid eh?

Sure.

[John Q. Citizen]

20. The 9/11 report is the the government conspiracy theory. Or are you

thinking of another one?

[JMDEM]

17. I hate to sound really stupid, but what is LIHOP?

Lithuania House of Pancakes? Liberia House of Pancakes? Lithium House of Pancakes?

Was Lithuania or Liberia in on the 9/11 conspiracy? Or was it caused by a bunch of bipolars off of their meds?

[motocicleta]

18. Let it happen on purpose

[Frank Cannon]

19. Yes, and MIHOP is...

made it happen on purpose.

I was a complete LIHOP skeptic, then eventually came over into the LIHOP crowd. Now I'm almost on the cusp of MIHOP. These people are that horrible.

[greenbriar]

25. it is too convenient

Nutshell, the PNAC agenda (one initiated and supported back in 1998 by many, if not most, who would later serve in leadership positions in the WH, SD, CIA, DOD and would write and exercise US foreign policy in the ME) is to start with the removal of SH and proceed forward from there. The writers envisioned a 'catastrophic event' the magnitude of Pearl Harbor as being THE catalyst for overcoming any objection of the US public to engage in military action in the region...

and it just so happened that 9/11 seemed to coincide with their plans. Talk about convenient coinky dinkys. With a 'catastrophic event' they would catapult their plan into action starting with Iraq and then spreading 'the seeds of democracy' throughout the region. They would use any and all means deemed necessary including military action in order to achieve their objectives...for the good of the people in the region, of course.

With this plan they would not only allow 'freedom' to ring but they would, coinky dinky no doubt because they aren't tripping over themselves to 'spread democracy' in other areas, have unlimited access to vital resources that are needed by a superpower nation to remain super.

That's it, Cliffnotes version.

[Frank Cannon]

29. The two greatest beneficiaries of 9/11 have been Bush and bin-Laden

That is a fact that has not escaped me, and it absolutely MUST be considered before anyone dismisses the MIHOP theory out-of-hand.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FogerRox]

22. I'll go back to the OP--

Randi has been setting something up for the last few weeks. She had The Economic hit man on, the other day. And then mentioned the Saudi part of his book. I'm guessing shes about to connect some dots.

[orleans]

24. go randi!

she was talking about the bin laden whose plane crashed in texas, bit by bit, by bit--

she's great!

[mantis49]

32. I'm getting that feeling, too.

And I think she is really good at connecting dots.

[calimary]

28. LOL!

[gasperc]

23. don't think they thought the buildings would collapse

but LIHOP, I've in it a long, long time. Telling the Taliban when they WERE IN WASHINGTON DC IN THE SPRING OF 2001, they could get a carpet of gold or a carpet of bombs weems very plausible. They tried to provoke Saddam as last night's just released memo points out. and they knew full well that terrorists wanted to strike in the US. On top of that, PNAC spelled out clearly how they felt a serious terorist strike could be used to mobilize the nation militarily to do things a majority of sane people wouldn't otherwise do. For whatever fucked up reason our leader's seem to be thinking they are doing us a fucking favor, meanwhile we are being dragged over a bed of hot fucking coal. LIHOP, I think the collapse of the towers caught them by surprise but they are ruthless and adapted. And a majority of our fellow citizens have been gullible enough to follow these whackjobs.

[zulchzulu]

26. PNAC Strikes Again!

No doubt in my mind that they have their hand in all this...no doubt about it.