Question about who is leading the effort to dry up funding to the DNC.

[madfloridian]

There is an effort to do this. I can not seem to get to the base of it. It is more than just a few progressives, it is many.

I have seen the sentiment at other forums often, that withholding support from the DNC with Dean as chairman will get the rest of the party to listen.

Yesterday I got a note from a blogger elsewhere, that there was pent-up anger at Dean for not forming 3rd party and for accepting the chairmanship of the DNC. I guess I had not realized it went so deep.

Last night I saw it expressed twice here. People feel that by withholding support from Dean they will get the rest of the party to listen. That Dean will have to resign and that'll teach the rest of the party.

Now I don't know what convoluted thinking figured that out, but it is so painful to watch it play out here like this. Could someone explain the thinking behind hurting the part of the party that is trying to rebuild with the people in mind, with local groups in mind.

I thought I was pretty smart, but I can not figure this out.

Last night someone here said that cutting off funds to Dean would make the others in the party listen to the progressives. I ask you what alternative universe do you live in?

The DC insiders in congress never especially wanted him in the first place. They did not elect him. When you withhold support from him you delight them tremendously. It gives the power back to them.

So would someone explain this to me? How it would benefit the grassroots for him to resign, how it would make the insiders in DC pay attention when they wish the grassroots would go away anyway?

It's storming and lightning and thundering here in our area of Florida, and maybe it is making me grumpy....but I sure can't figure that one out.

[waiting for hope]

1. Dean is the strongest voice

we have in standing up for the party - these are probably the same people who think Hillary would be an excellent choice for 2008....:nopity:

[William769]

5. Not so!

Any one here will tell you I advocate Hillary running in 2008. See post #3.

[sendero]

9. Yeah..

.... why bother.

[blm]

2. That's pretty immature thinking if that's what they truly believe.

Pretty damn sad.

OTOH - it sounds like a typical move from GOP operatives planted in the leftist groups. They've been pulling moves like this for decades.

[madfloridian]

7. I did not quote, but the words were close.

Last night here. I saved the quote and others elsewhere in case someone calls me loony. Other forums, same thing. Dean has never pretended to be liberal, he is just mainly for doing what is best for the people in the country.

There has to be more to it than is meeting the eye. I have already become a neocon, a DLC plant, and other things because I advocate working to change the party, not leaving.

[blm]

27. heheh... I was attacked as a troll here because I had the audacity to

support John Kerry - did you know the BFEE wanted Kerry to uncover IranContra and BCCI and CIA drugrunning?

Heh - point is that alot of this stuff falls into two categories - people who will say anything out of basic immaturity and lack of comprehension of real history, or they're GOP operatives intent on fostering divisions.

[Douglas Carpenter]

153. your post has motivated me to make a donation right now!

link:

https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute

__________________________

If the Democrats take the House this November

10 members of the Progressive Caucus would become chairmen of committees

John Conyers becomes Chairman of the Judiciary Committee

[Toots]

155. Just how do you propose doing that?

We keep giving money they keep capitulating to the GOP. What specifically have you in mind that will insure any money we give will not go to those that vote right along with the GOP on most issues? The only thing they seem to really understand is money. If you threaten their money supply their ears perk up. List some very specific ideas how you plan on changing the Party from within that will get any attention from the Democratic Leaders other than controlling their money supplies. So far all I hear is bravado talk.

[William769]

3. Dean is great as the DNC chair.

I ahve the same probelm as you trying to figure out the mentality behind this. I don't care waht anyone says, not supporting the DNC is in fact supporting the RNC.

[havocmom]

4. Have noticed it all too. There are powers who just don't want Dean

to get a following and work hard to thwart him/us. To me, that indicates he is a good man to follow ;)

He sure seems to be a lightening rod for attacks by status-quo proponents. Now they are using the arguments that he needs to start a new party. Gee, marginalizing him like was done to Nader years ago? An attempt to neuter Dean and his populist messages? Sure as hell seems like it from where I sit.

Anybody the Powers That Be work so hard against is worth a good look!

[bucklebone]

8. Splitting Dean off Will Fracture the Left

Infighting will eventually paralyze the left. There is too much at stake for the left to fight with two armies. This is going down a road that I don't want to be on.

I think the Cindy Sheehan / Howard Dean wing of the Democratic left needs to reconcile with the "mainstream" of the party in order to get things accomplished. Each side has to take the bitter medicine in order to heal the patient.

Hopefully we will see a united front by 2008. I don't think it will have much of an impact this Novemeber, but by 2008, unification will be paramount.

[madfloridian]

14. Welcome to DU...

And there is no Howard Dean/Cindy Sheehan wing...she really does not care for him at all. He is not anti-war enough for her.

[havocmom]

20. I think the Sheehan/Dean wing IS the party

The status quo proponents on the Beltway are the ones who need to reconcile with us. They are the ones who left the populist traditions that brought the Democratic Party real clout.

Yes, a united front. But not same ol same ol. When they work SO hard to derail Dean, he must be on the correct course.

Welcome to the DU, bucklebone. Interested in reading more from you. :hi:

[madfloridian]

21. It is "progressives" so called who are trying to derail.

I think you did not get my point. The progressives advocating not supporting him think that the rest of the party will listen if they derail Dean.

That thinking hurts us all

[radio4progressives]

24. where is the "Progressives" call for pulling support of DNC and Dean?

Prove it. Right Now.

I'm a member of the Progressive Democrats of America and there is NO CALL for any such thing where I am. Keep this nonsense up, and you're going to end up creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

[MuseRider]

28. I have not seen it either

but I am not frequenting a ton of sites or groups. The progressive groups I am involved in don't really speak of the DNC or Dean all that much but when they do never do they talk about getting rid of it or him.

[madfloridian]

32. I did not refer to your group.

In fact if you read my post again, I am trying to determine the source.

Please do not threaten me. Do NOT do that.

[radio4progressives]

41. LOL! A Demand for Evidence is NOT a Threat (sheesh!)

:shrug::crazy:

[leanin_green]

164. I think what is meant is that madfloridian was "threatened" to put up or

shut up. So the actual threat was internally generated by madfloridian.

Hi Radio! :hi:

[Tigress DEM]

127. Hey Mad! Howaya?

Got your back.

It's hard to come up with specifics. I had to go with progressives I love to listen to and respect for example, but I DO see people on DU identify themselves as progressives when they talk about doing the DEM party in and starting over or kicking Obama out or whatever.

I have to say that I am a solid DEM, but I LOVE the progressive agenda, sans the piece that pops up about gutting the party. I do think PDA has moved away from that officially as a group, but I remember when I first went to sign up it read like it was a third party seeking to replace the Democratic Party. I may have misread it, but that was my sense.

[Tigress DEM]

126. No disrespect in general...

People who have made comments on DU like tearing up the DEM party and starting over HAVE identified themselves consistently as Progressives.

Love Will Pitt, but I've seen him at that line too. In his case I wonder if it isn't mostly venting. DU is a place to vent, so you can't take as gospel every word someone writes here either. It can be almost like a journal. When you get a reaction from someone a lot of times it helps you balance yourself out too.

One of the main things that shocked me about Michael Moore was his college speeches that talked about gutting the party and replacing it with the progressive structure. I didn't have a problem with his movies and maybe at the time with Mike being one of the pioneers in the progressive scene, he was making outrageous statements to try and wake people up.

Mike Malloy of Air America talks about getting progressives on the ballot whether they are DEMs or third party. It's not the same as destroying, but there is no love lost in his tone.

A lot of people are critical of the DEM leadership because it hasn't really been clear to us what they are doing because we're off like a herd of cats clawing and scratching each other as we try to out run the tsunami of *ush's lies and corruption.

Also with only 25 senators signing onto the filibuster and 19 betraying us this morning by going along with tax cuts for the rich bill - including people like Clinton and Dayton, what are we supposed to think? Is this a REAL party or just a casual gathering?

[havocmom]

57. No, I got you point and added my own. Powers that be using some

progressives to derail Dean's approach. Just like with other Greens.

[madfloridian]

58. Thanks.

I misunderstood you.

[radio4progressives]

80. You actually discount genuine disappointment, disillusionment and

dissaffection as being something other than a visceral and organic response to what happened earlier this week?

You actually believe that it is the work of "Progressive plants"?

do you really believe that?

[madfloridian]

84. Read this.

Debi posted this, it is sweet and simple.

DNC = Howard Dean and the National Party (Organizing for US in all 50 states for success in 2006 and 2008)

DSCC = Senate Democrats (If you're mad at a Senator, redirect your contributions to Howard Dean and the DNC)

DCCC = House Democrats (If you're mad at a member of Congress, redirect your contributions to Howard Dean and the DNC)

[Adelante]

93. And how unifying is that?

It calls for the same bullshit only directed at other parts of the party. It. Is. Wrong. Wrong when it's done to the DNC; wrong when it's done on the DNC's behalf. Wrong.

[madfloridian]

95. Hey I agree. BUT....

At least it differentiates....it does not just blast everyone.

It gives choices.

Most people here can not tell the difference.

[Debi]

129. It calls for denying support to the portion of the Party the person is

angry at.

Why deny support of the National Party and Howard Dean b/c Harry Reid can't control his caucus? Same for Pelosi? These are the same people who said that Dean does not speak for them or set policy, so why punish him for their mis-deeds? They wouldn't even claim him as one of their own, why try and make him pay for them now?

Dean is pounding pavement, he's speaking out and he's raising money for races in 50 states. Why stop that progress?

[xxqqqzme]

94. DCCC & DSCC will not support candidates

until they raise $100,000 FIRST! Give your contributions 2 your local candidates running for congress or the senate. Money going 2 DCCC or DSCC goes 2 candidates the dlc are promoting. Keep your money in your state - give locally or through the DNC.

[madfloridian]

96. I am advocating giving to the DNC. Just like you are.

I am trying to show the difference.

[malmapus]

124. That is where my problem was.

I can't tell you how pissed I was when those 19 $^$@#^#$^$#^ Senators did not stand united with the rest, thus allowing Alito just to roll right on in. I felt my donations and everything I was doing were in vain if the party could not stand united, and blamed the DNC because I did not know.

Having learned otherwise since then, I have made a donation to the DNC as a "make up" and admit I was wrong.

[Debi]

132. Wonderful

:hug: This is exaclty what we need!

[havocmom]

97. Do, I don't discount genuine disappointment, disillusionment

and disaffection at all. NOR do I discount the use of those things by people in power against ourselves.

Saw it in the 60's & 70's. Agents provocateurs working in true left/progressive groups to radicalize them. People went to jail and a huge part of the progressive movement was neutered due to being marginalized. I see the same wave coming at Deaniacks.

When you get older, you see more patterns. Wish I knew then what I know now.

[Joe Fields]

149. You certainly are excluding millions of fine people by that remark

If sheehan and dean are the party, as you profess, then we are in way more trouble than i thought.

[donco6]

157. No freaking kidding.

I mean, Cindy's got a message. *A* message. One. You can't run a party with that.

[radio4progressives]

69. People who are disaffected with the Party, because of Senators, NOT DEAN

c'mon people. EVERYONE KNOWS those who put the kibosh on the filibuster had nothing to do with Dean or the DNC. The problem with HALF of the Senators who voted for Cloture, and canceling their own NO votes allowed for Alito's confirmation spoke volumes with what is wrong with this party in these individuals' minds - who are extremely distressed with the thinking and decision making by our own party leaders.

Out of a HUNDRED threads, there might be ONE thread inappropriately blaming Dean or the DNC.

MF needs to hold the vichy Senators directly accountable (who voted for Cloture) for any possible diminishings of funding to the DNC as a consequence of the Senators actions earlier this week.

[The Magistrate]

85. There Have Been A Number Of Comments Here Over The Last Few Days, Ma'am

In which people declare they will not donate to the Party, and urging others to do the same. Most say it is owing to anger the Party has not "stood up" for them. As Gov. Dean is the Party Chairman, and chief of fund-raising for it, and such action does strike directly at him, whether that is the intendtion or not.

[trudyco]

128. Well, I was one though I never told others to follow my lead...

And it was the very reason you stated. I don't want my money to go to the Senators I no longer believe in. There should be some core values/principals the Democrats should stand for (like being against the bankruptcy bill). In this administration they need to stand united and firm on things.


I blame this on the Senators. NOT DEAN. I almost donated just because of him. If the DNC truly gives no money to specific Senators or Congress Critters then I would donate. I want to help the infrastructure. He's got a good start, though I wish he'd put pressure on people who get in front of the camera to give a unified message (maybe boycott Faux news, too). The rebuttal to the SOTU was disappointing. The "America Can Do better" theme is awful - no backbone, no fire. The lack of interest in voter counting machines is alarming.

Still, they could do a lot worse than Dean.

[Debi]

133. When you give to the DNC express your dissapointment

in the DSCC and DCCC (or in our current Senators and members of Congress). Let the National Party know that you want better representation. Dean is helping local/county/state parties grow and hopefully that will lead to "better" Democrats running for office and representing us. That's his plan, and I like it.

[karynnj]

71. There is a huge difference between Sheehan, an anti-war activist

and Howard Dean, who was a very successful moderate governor of Vermont. I don't think the 2 (or more)wings of the party should "unite" until after the primaries. Each has it's own goals and objecives. That is not to say they should be at war with each other. (The differences between them are smaller by far than the difference between either of them and Bush.

What policies do we unite behind? This week kind of shows it - almost all the Democratic Senators voted against Alito and made grand statements for why he was the wrong man for the job - then led by Reid they got the signal that they shouldn't filibuster.

[Adelante]

92. Bucklebone

With your 12 posts and prompt understanding of how to disable your profile...

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[bucklebone]

116. Thanks again,

Everyone (except vickers, so far) has made me feel really welcome. I look forward to being a regular contributor. There is a lot of interesting stuff here.

[FloridaPat]

6. It's amazing how well the repub plan has worked to get rid of

money flowing to the Democrats. Divide and conquor. Have them vote for bills that make their base mad.

The phone call you got - was it from someone you knew? If it wasn't, it might have been the repubs trying to hurry things along.

[madfloridian]

10. That comment was made here last night.

That not supporting Dean would get the rest of the party to listen. No phone call. I had a note elsewhere as well.

[Tigress DEM]

130. Yeah, by snatching 57% of US $$$ for the top 1%, leaves the rest

of US just strapped for cash.

Trying to find enough to buy gas for the car to go to work or to pay the outrageous heating bills while corporate CEOs can get their corporate jet fuel for .01 a gallon --- it was cheaper for Northwest to have their party in Mexico. The taxpayers probably subsidized their plane ride.

There always has been that magic number which can turn a DEM can to the dark side. These days it's $300,000.00 because that's the line where the tax breaks actually are substantial. At that point people seem to start thinking they should make sure "I have mine and to hell with everyone else."

[OzarkDem]

167. Agree, it sounds fishy

[liam_laddie]

11. "It's the DLC, stupid"

Just a play on the "...economy, stupid" meme. I'm led to believe
that the DLC and other "within the beltway" types are not happy
that Gov. Dean is trying to disperse the power and money out where
it really can have an effect, the grassroots army. Fuck the DC
types, they're completely ineffective...I'm speaking of lobbyists,
consultants, pundits, columnists, etc. Where has Podesta been?
Any progressive think tanks doing anything effective? This isn't
sarcastic, I really want to know...
This idea of dumping Dean is absurd on its face. :eyes:

[donco6]

12. That's not why I'm withholding funds

It's not because of Dean. It's because of Reid. I believe he is a failure as the Senate leader of the DNC. IMO, to continue giving money is to send the message that I'm happy with how they are working. I'm not.

[madfloridian]

15. That makes so much sense I am banging my head on the wall.

:banghead:

[donco6]

89. Edmunicate me, please.

I'm open-minded. Really.

[Debi]

19. Then cut your funding to the DSCC and give it to the DNC

Reid is the Senate Leader of the Party, Dean is the Leader of the National Party. Don't punish Howard Dean for Harry Reid's behavior.

[0007]

156. Exactly! Hope the dirty mountain air in Denver isn't effecting

everyone.

[hedda_foil]

25. The DNC has absolutely no control whatsoever over Reid.

I know we would all like to imagine that the DNC is a strong and powerful operation that sets the agenda and has political power over elected officials. After all, that's a good description of how the RNC functions. The truth is that nothing could be further from reality. For the past 30 years, the DNC has been an empty shell that does nothing beyond fundraising for presidential elections and holding a couple of conferences where nothing has any impact on anyone outside the room. That's how the DLC managed to take over the DNC in the first place. They're certainly good at high dollar fundraising from their corporate patrons. When Dean came in last year, there was no connection at all between the state and local party organizations (which were dying all over the country), the citizens of this country, grassroots Democrats, or even solid Democratic issues. As a result, the Senators and Congressmen, the DSCC, DCCC, etc etc etc all operate far more independently than would make any sense at all in a properly functioning party that could actually win elections.

Dean is making a superhuman effort to change all that, against tremendous resistance from the powers that be, who don't want to share, much less give up one little bit of their perceived power for the good of the party. The top of the party is a herd of feral cats. Dean is changing things, but he sure as hell can't control the cats he's fighting at this point.

[lyonn]

48. Very nice analogy hedda - I believe you got it right. - nt

[Debi]

64. Howard Dean vs. feral cats

Flame away....:evilgrin:

[karynnj]

75. Really nice summary of the depressing state of the party

I think that Reid has a tough job - but he fails to realize that he is also on an edge of the party - the more conservative edge. (He also really stood his distance from Kerry last year until Kerry was very competitive.) He may simply be very cautious by nature.

[donco6]

91. Thank you, hedda.

I really thought the DNC and RNC operated in the same way. Now I see I was mistaken. I need to reconsider this.

But on the other side, how DO we let our displeasure be known? I mean, what does Reid care if I - a non-constituent - think he sucks as a leader?

[Capn Sunshine]

159. I would only add it's the same at the state level

The State parties and structure have zero influence over what our Dem legislators do in DC, and are really just glorified fund raisers.

Those in DC that piss us off have no intention of changing; they are doing quite well with the status quo.

Thanks for reminding me, J.

[Mass]

33. So withhold the funds to the DSCC not the DNC

The DNC uses his funds to organize grassroots and local operations. This is something we really need if we want the Democrats to stop "Inside The Beltway" thinking.

[sendero]

13. Dean is one of the handful..

... of shining hopes in this party. If they run him off, stick a fork in the Dems. they're done.

[Debi]

16. Could it be that people don't know the difference between

the DSCC (Senate Democrats), DCCC (House Democrats) and DNC (National Party)?

Dean is the most visible so they attack him :shrug:

I'd like to believe (naively so) that's the reason.

Then again, there as those who just don't want to see Dean be successful and ,God forbid, the 2006 elections show him doing just that.

[madfloridian]

18. Well, God knows some of us have tried to spell out the difference.

They are deliberating withholding from him to get the others to listen.

It ain't gonna work, and it is hurting us all.

I have posted that stuff so much here, and no one pays any attention. There is a whole page at the DNC website about each group in the party. It is under the heading our party at the top.

I have posted it over and over.

[Debi]

23. Then post it over and over and over again

You've been a supporter for Dean against God knows how many obstacles on this board for how long now? Don't let this stop you.

There are nine months until the 2006 elections, can you keep it up for nine months? Of course you can. Do you think that Dean is going to stop asking for support? No.

Repeat after me:

DNC = Howard Dean and the National Party (Organizing for US in all 50 states for success in 2006 and 2008)
DSCC = Senate Democrats (If you're mad at a Senator, redirect your contributions to Howard Dean and the DNC)
DCCC = House Democrats (If you're mad at a member of Congress, redirect your contributions to Howard Dean and the DNC)

Cut and paste :7

[lyonn]

53. Thanks, that should be clear enough. - nt

[madfloridian]

60. LOL That is great.

Thanks.

:D

[spuddonna]

125. I thought I knew the differences, but was totally wrong...

So, yeah, I think it's possible a lot of this has to do with not understanding where the $$$ goes from different orgs... Anyone have a chart? :)

But I also think that a lot of people are just so pissed that when they actually get a call from anyone representing our party that they lash out. I know I have on surveys! And emails... and phone calls... and faxes... lol

[Debi]

135. Our Iowa Legislative Democrats are trying to raise $$ right now

and they have three separate fund raising arms..Iowa Senate Dems/Iowa House Dems/Iowa Dem Party. Each has called w/in the last week. I told 'em all NOT NOW.

I'm so mad at the Iowa Democrats for falling into a republican campaign year trap and then trying to explain it away. (They are supporting a bill that will erase state taxes on pensions - long story short it hurts the state and benefits a few - Tax Cuts??? Right Now???? Dems in tight races are supporting it to try to keep the republicans from branding them Tax & Spend Liberals - "Taxing Grandma and Grandpa, you Damn Liberal" so they vote for republican tax cuts and want us to keep them in office so they can be there to vote for the 'important' bills down the road, WTF?)


I agree that it seems that every group wants more money and more money and MORE MONEY. So, give to who you want to support - but don't deny support to one group b/c you're pissed at another.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Think about it. The grass roots moved a majority of Dems to filibuster

in the Senate, and now the reactionary wing, who were embarrassed to be spotlighted voting against cloture, wants to discredit activist Dean and put a "safe " corporate Dem into the DNC leadership.

Let's support our allies, folks. Dean is our allie.

[havocmom]

99. Thank you! Great analysis. Grass roots (Dean & Co) scare the shit outta

RNC & DLC. What they fear is We The People waking up and firing all their asses! They want to cut the balls off anyone who starts to get our attention to the REAL issues. They want to neuter any real populist movement. It is not so much about party as real loyalties. Are they for corporate take-over or are they for REAL participation by The People in OUR governance?

There are plenty of the wrong sorts on both sides of the aisle. Time to let them know we will show the $$ to those who show they represent US! The DNC under Dean is a good way to do it. Look for local people who really do want to represent you running for office and support them. Get involved and show the status-quo proponents that We The People are taking it back.

[radio4progressives]

22. I'm on other forums, and I haven't seen any organized effort in this vein.

what i have seen is a massive wave of demoralization and disillusionment of the Democratic Party vis a vis the terrible (and avoidable) Alito confirmation because of HALF of the Democratic Party Senators cancelling their "No" votes by voting for Cloture. That was a significant event and it has led to some voicing their severe disappointment and disengagement, even to the point of registering as Independents. I can't personally say how wide spread this is throughout the country, but i certainly haven't seen fingers pointed at the DNC for the betrayal of half of the Senators.

In fact Dean came out in favor of Kennedy and Kerry's stand on the filibuster. I think you're confusing peoples contempt for the DLC as being aimed a the DNC, and that's just factually incorrect.

People who are leaving the party are not assigning blame to the DNC, they assign blame to the DLC. People who are talking about creating a new party, are not "leading a campaign to drain" the DNC. People are talking about putting their money behind candidates they actually support, which is quite a different thing. I strongly recommend stepping back and taking a deep breath, and consider the events that just unfolded earlier in the week.

Sure that will have certainly have a negative impact on party funding no doubt, due to INDVIDUALS decisions. That's natural but there is no "organzied" effort in that regard, that i have seen.

Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar as they say.

[madfloridian]

30. No, I said the truth. Several threads a day here say withhold funds.

Withhold support. There are many many forums, and many people read them.

I am simply trying to figure why the theme is to not support the party.

I have a whole list of 3rd parties. There are a lot of them, but they are not very large. They could not fight for us in any way, which is why I advocate for the Democratic party, staying to change it.

People think hurting him will help the progressive cause. Oh, yes, they most certainly do.

Oh, and just to be clear, the note I got was a from a Kos blogger and I got it in an inbox elsewhere.

[radio4progressives]

43. individuals are divorcing the party, Alito last straw, so what did you

expect? champaign and balloons?

[Warren Stupidity]

26. I support Dean and the DNC.

However I openly wondered here if there were not some way that the DNC could enforce party discipline, seeing as how Mr. Reid can't seem to do it. It pisses me off that part of my Democracy Bond is going to find its way into Joementum's campaign, for example. A lot of us are angry about what went down over the last two weeks. A lot of us really want a very different Democratic Party, a party that stands up and fights the fascist bastards, and we don't know how to get there.

[hedda_foil]

29. The DNC does NOT support House or Senate candidates.

Go back and read post #25. There's no party discipline to enforce because the party structure has been left to rot for the past 30 years.

[Warren Stupidity]

35. I think perhaps this is not entirely true.

"The Democratic National Committee
The Democratic National Committee plans the Party's quadrennial presidential nominating convention; promotes the election of Party candidates with both technical and financial support; and works with national, state, and local party organizations, elected officials, candidates, and constituencies to respond to the needs and views of the Democratic electorate and the nation."
https://www.democrats.org/a/party/ourorganization.html

Perhaps you have a different explanation for what "promotes the election of Party candidates with both technical and financial support" means but I think a reasonable interpretation is that joementum is going to get a fraction of my Democracy Bond.

[madfloridian]

38. Then if you want to get technical...don't donate to anybody.

It is well known that the DSCC and DCCC are the support of the candidates for Congress, and you are arguing about that??????

[Warren Stupidity]

46. Huh?

All I am saying is that I want Dean to take a stronger position and I think he ought to use DNC funding as an enforcement tool. I keep getting told that the DNC does provide any support to individual candidates, and I keep pointing out that this isn't true.

[madfloridian]

51. The DSCC and DCCC do that.

But if you want to believe Dean has control over Rahm and Schumer, go ahead.

If you can't read between the lines in my post and my plea, then I am surprised.

We are killing each other.

[Warren Stupidity]

55. I understand what the DSCC and the DCCC are.

However, once again, the DNC also provides support to candidates. Obviously Dean has no control over Rahm and Schumer, which I think is my point.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

45. That is Rev.Moon's paper...the Washington Times is a Moonie paper.

Even Schumer took up for Dean yesterday and said he is funding the state groups.

Dean has given over 9 million to states, RNC has only given 3 million..oops.

[MuseRider]

47. Lol

"his far laft positions drive people away"?

Welcome, enjoy your stay.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. that is freeptoid bullshit

please don't regurgitate that nonsense here. DNC fundraising is up, not down. Individual contributions are way up. It is true that the fascist cabal raises a lot more money that we do. No shit.

p.s. enjoy your stay.

[blm]

54. That's what the MOONIES ARE SAYING - you quote MOONIES?

.

[Debi]

65. Loosing??? Hmmmmm

Welcome to DU.....and Buh bye! :hi:

[melissinha]

66. DNC funds are UP

From what I understood DNC donations were highest ever, not as much as RNC cause they have so many corporate donors.....
FROM DailyKOS

Democrats, seeking to regain control of the U.S. Congress this November, are narrowing their fund- raising gap with the Republicans.

Democratic Party election committees raised $143 million in 2005, up from $128 million four years earlier, led by a record amount collected by the Senate campaign organization. Republican committees raised $206 million, down from $234 million in 2001, according to reports filed with the Federal Election Commission.

The Democrats also reported $47 million in the bank at the start of 2006, $18 million less than the Republicans. That compares with a $37 million difference at the start of 2002, the last year congressional elections were held when there was no presidential race.

THEN

The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, under Senator Charles Schumer of New York, outraised the Republicans, collecting an all-time high of $44 million, with $25 million in the bank, according to figures released by the committee. The National Republican Senatorial Committee said it took in $36 million and had a balance of $11 million <...>

Dean doubled the Democrats' donations from small contributors, those who gave less than $200. The party reported taking in $32 million from small donors, compared with $16 million in 2001. The Republican National Committee raised $55 million in small donations, up from $40 million four years earlier. :hurts:

The House Republicans' fund-raising arm took in $65 million, compared with $43 million for the House Democrats. The Republicans had $20 million cash on hand to $16 million for the Democrats, according to figures released by both parties.

I have faith in Dean and his plan, too bad a majority of our guys are lone rangers that don't unite together to beat the Republican beast.

But WE the grassroots donors are DOWN in comparison to Repuke donors.....

[NoPasaran]

78. IntheNet lies in the sod

Please, God... send us a better class of troll!

[peacetalksforall]

31. It's crazy to go after the DNC now that Dean is there. I hope this

isn't true. The biggest problem my viewpoint is the apparent boycotting of the DNC by the corporate propaganda networks. It appears DLC faces are accepted in the small boys and girls club of guests that are allowed on.

Why doesn't the DLC ever try to defend themselves on DU? Why don't they try to tell us what their strategy is? I would consider what they have to say. Instead, I am only left with an overpowering disappointment when I hear them on tv and when I know that they are trying to push this right of center stuff.

Our terrorist administration has declared war on the people of the U.S. and they are in a time warp making it impossible for them to recognize the urgency of our situation.

I consider them my enemy. But, if they defend themselves, I will listen.

[radio4progressives]

34. MF is Confusing DNC with DLC - Entirely Different

while there are a few individuals who have expressed disaffection with the DNC, MOST people are upset with the DLC not the DNC.

Saying that there is a conspiracy to "drain funding" of the DNC is dangerous to the very cause you profess to support, exaggerating a handful of individuals as a massive campaign is not only factually incorrect, it is wrong headed.

[madfloridian]

42. No, MF is NOT confusing it. Others are. Please stop this.

I have the quotes from last night, and I saved them. It is so obvious here that if you deny it you make yourself look silly.

If you don't know that MF has often posted against the DLC and in detail...then you have not been paying attention.

[mdmc]

36. I always hated the DLC and the DNC

and only became a DNC dues paying member when Dean became chair... The Democratic party is fucked up beyond repair, I can see why lefties are mad...

[LoZoccolo]

62. Really?

I hope you can see why I'm putting you on ignore: because your opinion is relatively useless to me until election night 2006.

:hi: :nuke:

[mdmc]

100. At least I kicked in some cash... thats relatively useful to the DNC

although I am very progressive and liberal, I am not a green. I am a democrat.
I didn't mean to offend you. Sometimes I get very mad at the dlc and the dnc. Please don't ignore me.
The only time that I got in trouble / temporarily banned from du was after telling another du'er that I was going to put them on 'ignore'.

ANYWAY, I hope the Dems take the House and Senate in 2006. I am sure we can agree on that.

Peace and low stress...

[madfloridian]

37. DNC does not support House and Senate candidates.

Jenny is a well-respected DNC member. She tells of a conference call with Dean.

http://jenny_greenleaf.mydd.com/

Dean's Comments on Filibuster Vote/National Message
by Jenny Greenleaf, Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 05:53:53 PM EST

I'm on a conference call with Gov. Dean and DNC members. Someone asked about the disappointing vote on the filibuster.

Dean said that progress is being made, but that some Dems in Congress don't see that hanging together is more important than their own re-election campaigns. "They're not there yet, and we just have to keep working on them."

He also said that we should not hesitate to let Democratic politicians know when we're displeased.

I notice that many people conflate the actions of specific Democratic politicians with the DNC. The DNC has no control over what individual legislators do. The DNC does not give money to House and Senate campaigns, and doesn't give money to the DSCC or the DCCC.

So, it makes me sad when I see justifiably irritated people say that because of the vote by specific Senators, they're not going to support the DNC. The DNC works pretty hard to get these folks on the same page, but it's like herding cats.

It takes time to turn a barge. I'm just going to take a deep breath and keep paddling.

[lyonn]

39. What is a progressive?

Whoever Dean is I like his thinking and approach to getting the votes for the Democrats. The Alito vote was such a hot button issue that it bent some thinking. We need Dean! What are we looking for, perfection? Dean hits most issues that the dems care about. The Liebermans of the party should get scrutiny, see who is competing with them. Of course we'd rather have a Lieberman than a Roy Blunt. But the far right leaning dems need a "party check", meaning debate.

This labeling of people gets tiresome. On some issues, few tho, I lean right. As time goes by I do get more radically left and must be aware of going to the extreme.

[radio4progressives]

52. It's NOT a mass Organized movement, it might be happening on an individual

basis, but it isn't "organized". individuals posting threads does not a mass movement make.

Now, there may be a "mass exodus" - i have no idea... i guess DNC keeps track of voter registerations, but that's quite a different thing. Dean isn't being blamed for the fecklessness of HALF of the Senate Democrats.

[Debi]

68. Yes, Dean is being blamed for the 'fecklessness of HALF of the

Senate Democrats.

Go back through the posts right after Cloture on Alito. Post after post after post was written about how people were canceling their monthly contributions to the DNC. Posts were written about the 'wake up call' Dean needed and that if funding to the DNC was stopped Democratic Senators may finally listen.

Either people don't understand the difference between the DNC, DSCC and DCCC or don't care and want to blame Howard Dean for spineless Democratic elected officials. Either way it's Howard Dean and the DNC that get the shaft.

[madfloridian]

70. Post after post after post. You are right.

.

[Debi]

72. Ah, well,

At least WE know it's true (because WE were responding to those posts). Maybe others didn't see the posts or didn't care to see the posts.

Dean has shrugged off worse than this and kept going.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

74. And so will we. Keep going, that is.

I have already been declared a pariah, so I ain't got nothing to lose.

[applegrove]

44. In Canada, where we have a third social democrat party, somehow

they were managed to be wedged and hated the Liberals. They often speak loud on issues and were very quiet re: the conservatives.

Seems that wedgie Liberals apart into progressives and moderates is as much a part of building a Republican big tent as building up support for core conservative issues like tax cuts and anti-gay.

So too - the WH has not lifted a finger to province transparency in elections.

Wedging us left moderate and centre.

For sure lots of it re: Dean is heartfelt anger and frustration. The base is not being played to. Because the progressive base is not what wins elections for Dems. And the Dem progressive base & values is what is clearly being annihilated by the WH.

We all seem to be broken down in our various fears.

Not a pretty picture. Just like with the GOP funding Nader's 2004 race, it works for them. Don't expect the GOP to stop doling out various fears for various democrats anytime soon.

[Coexist]

49. I would like to suggest that you start a thread that is "info only"

and title it something like: Where the DNC Money Goes - You Might Be Surprised.

Then list how where it goes - point out that it doesn't go to individual campaigns - it is a grassroots effort that is progressive in nature.

Maybe those who canceled their Democracy Bonds might re-think and decide to begin donating again.

Your OP title might make some people defensive. If you are attempting to help the DNC bring its lost sheep into the fold - a strictly topic thread would encourage people to read, instead of starting off in a defensive posture.

Just my .02

[dbonds]

56. People that joined our party with the intent of destroying from within.

[Tigress DEM]

140. I think Progressive has gone beyond the Michael Moore days.

I literally dropped my jaw when I saw him talking about that at a college. He said that progressives needed to tear apart the present DEM structrue and rebuild it from within.

I think we should just look at the progressive agenda and get DEMS who will commit to it - minus the wrecking the party piece.

I do my evaluations and donations usually on a candidate by candidate basis. I'm pretty broke and don't have a lot to spare, so if I do give I want a face to connect with. I just feel better giving financial support to someone I believe in rather than a party that is splintered and riddled with conflict.

Still. I respect Mad and will have to think about it.

If Dean could just speak up to our party and call for unity on the issues... and I agree with one person who said we have to have vote reform on the table.

[LoZoccolo]

59. It's all talk, phony activism and threats with no consequence.

- Anyone can say anything on an Internet message board.

- People who graze on Internet message boards generally do Jack Schitt for activism besides voting, and possibly not giving money (notice the last one is something you don't do rather than what you do do). I'm not sure if they do these extreme things because they don't know about the many opportunities to change things, or if they are lazy.

- One of the only rewards of the Jack Schitt approach is getting a reaction out of other people on the message board.

[madfloridian]

76. I think you underestimate the effect on some people...

who are sincere in wanting change in the party and don't know which way to turn.

They really believe in what they are doing, some are sincere.

Some are being used.

[radio4progressives]

61. The People who are Leading the effort to Drain the DNC are the Senators

who voted in favor of Cloture on the Alito Nomination.

That was about 19 Senators who cancelled their No on confirmation, but Yes on Cloture, and there were about 4 or 5 more who voted Yes on Alito and Yes on Cloture. About Half of the Democratic Party Senators. the names of those are posted in other threads earlier in the week.

They are the people MadFloridian needs to take up this issue with.

[madfloridian]

63. Do they post here?

.

[radio4progressives]

67. their staffers have posted here.. but you missed the point.

and you will continue to miss the point, so i'm done with this idiocy.

[leanin_green]

165. Another circular arguement going nowhere. n/t

[Debi]

73. Mad...that made my day!

:loveya:

[Totally Committed]

77. I think this is rampant paranoia talking, madfloridian...

I don't think there is any sort of organized effort to choke off DNC funding. People are angry and frustrated, and need to have their concerns addressed vis a vie their elected officials after this last awful couple of weeks. This will blow over, I think.

I wish there was such a thing to choke off DLC funding, but I'd have to be a multi-million $$$ Corporation to do them any harm.

TC

[madfloridian]

81. It has been going on long before Alito. No, I am not paranoid.

I have been called far worse than that though. I have been called neocon lately, and Good German, and DLC troll.

It has been going on here in post after post. Maybe you missed them.

It's ok, calling me paranoid is nothing, doesn't insult me at all.

[Totally Committed]

86. I said it was PARANOIA...

I didn't say YOU were Paranoid, and I certainly did not mean to insult you at all.

You are far from a "neocon", a "Good German", or a "DLC Troll". You support Dean to the hilt and he is damned lucky to have you! I just don't think it does anyone any good to accuse people with genuine gripes of being part of a concerted effort agains Dean in any way. If anything, their "gripes" are with the Party, and not him. (There is a difference, even though he is the titular head.) Trust him to address these concerns and then the donations either will or will not start up again. People are only using what they see as their last "stick" (or carrot, depending on how you look at it) on the DNC. This is indicative of a lot of people feeling powerless to do anything else. Let Dean sort it out. He's up to that challenge.

TC

[madfloridian]

88. But that is not what I am doing.

There are posts after posts here, and with over 80,000 members and more reading....harm is being done.

I will question the source, and I will continue to say that some people desire true change and don't know how to get it.

[AZBlue]

79. Freeper trolls? Karl Rove?

Sorry to be leading the tinfoil-hat brigade here but as I was reading your post that's the only thing that came to my mind. They would be the ONLY group to benefit from such action. Usually I'm the first to question a conspiracy theory (I need facts, dammit) but this would be a great Rovian move. They already know that the left is divided - what is more Karlesque than to manipulate and grow that divide for their own gain? It's brilliant really - the simplicity and effectiveness of it is staggering. In a toe-curling, spine-tingling, nauseating way of course.

[AtomicKitten]

82. It's just plain craziness.

That effort is tantamount to a 2-year-old holding his breath.


Although I didn't vote for Dean in the primary, I trust him implicitly as DNC Chair. I don't know why, really, it's just a gut feeling.

[Dr Fate]

102. holding your breath= holding your wallet.

Compare those of us who are marginalized to babies all you want- is this how you convince people to donate money- by calling them babies?

Convince me that not one penny of DNC money will go to aid DEMs who ignored the donor/volunteer base on the filibuster- this would get me to resume donating as opposed to name calling.

[AtomicKitten]

106. Correction: 2-year-olds are toddlers, not babies.

Do what you want with your money, nobody cares.

Ps: Did it ever occur to you that the Dems that voted no to the filibuster were listening to other parts of their base? Or does only your opinion matter? Refer to my original post.

[Dr Fate]

107. Then they can ask those "other parts" for money then- no problem.

I hope that those right-leaning members of their activist base (if they really do exist) turn out to be hard-working volunteers and generous donors.

And if nobody cares that others are with holding funds, then why was this 100 plus response thread started?

If you dont care what people are doing with their money, then why make the effort to call them 2-year olds. You do care.

[AtomicKitten]

110. your problem is that you think the Dem Party revolves around 2%

of the dissatisfied, disgruntled, way-smarter-than-the-rest-of-us Democrats.

The Alito confirmation was horrible, but you are dumping the entire thing in the lap of 19 Democrats. You may not have noticed but the Dems have ZERO power. And there are other precarious considerations that you can't see beyond your rage (and you call us blind!)

Other leftists concur. The AMERICAblog administrator wrote quite a moving piece on why voting no was the right thing to do. You can look it up yourself; I'm not motivated by people like to do your homework for you.

Peace out.

[Dr Fate]

113. No- I think that Dr. Fate revolves around Dr. Fate. I dont have a problem.

I dont know who the DEM party revolves around- I assume that they count on a small percentage of activist donors and volunteers during elections. I have NEVER met a right leaning DEM activist- NEVER.

The ones who DO revolve around me can count on my 100% support- which will include money, blood sweat & tears.

The ones who dont give two-flips about my views and think they can spin and lecture my views away can count on who ever it is that they "revolve around" for money.

I dont how to be more clear to you- certain DEMs can ignore me if they want- fine- just dont call my phone if you do.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

87. New one! I was just called a "mad hatter." Ok.

If you think so.

[AtomicKitten]

90. you go, girl

hey, i've been called worse.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

98. Personally I think it really doesn't hurt to once in a while

shoot oneself in the foot.

So what's wrong with withholding funding to the DNC, which has been doing well?

Historically the Repukes have always had more money, so let's not allow ourselves to gain an advantage.

:sarcasm:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just wish the posts made in anger that reflect opinions that are not likely to last beyond the anger of the moment could be labled as "rants," or getting it out of your system.

And also, I do at times wonder if we have little freeper and neocon plants who are here to just to stoke the flames of divisiveness.

[Dr Fate]

103. I would argue that the No-Filibuster DEMs are the ones shooting feet.

Dean should set up a separate fund where no money goes to aid them- this would provide a solution for the problem- hell- he would probably get TONS of donations to that fund from folks who really want to make a point.

Until then, that money goes to Kerry, DiFi, Boxer and anyone else who I feel is listening & responding to me.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

104. Sounds like Repuke lock-step tactics to me. People can donate

directly to the candidates they like and not to the ones they don't.

But to institutionalize it like that seems pretty Draconian to me.

[Dr Fate]

105. You mean I suggest we act like the WINNERS?

And no, I dont mean we should lie cheat and steal like they do.

How is only giving to the candidates you like "lock step?"

I would argue that "you need to shut up and give to ALL Democrats- even the ones who ignore you" is the lock-step, Draconian method.

Look- give to who you want, this is just my take.

For the reocrd, I say ZERO money to 3rd parties.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

108. We should act like WINNERS, not like those now in power.

The Draconian part is to collect funds at the party level and not give them to people who don't vote the party line.

I said in my post that we all can donate to whoever they want to.

Mostly that is what I do, give to the candidates I like, Clark, Conyers, Kennedy, and a few others.

But if I donate to the DNC or the DSCC or DCCC, I don't expect a litmus test based on voting records to be applied before candidates receive money.

[Dr Fate]

109. I respect that- we agree enough to continue working together- thanks.

n/t

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

111. Thanks, I agree. Peace. :) n/t

[Dr Fate]

101. The solution would be to set up a fund where no money goes to "the 19"

I'm not advocating others "cut-off" the DNC- BUT- if it is a concern, then Dean's solution would be to have a separate fund set up for those who don't want any money going anywhere near the Dems who ignored the base on the filibuster- which would, unfortunately, include money going to the state parties where they are from.

I'm not giving any money that may find its way to assist Democrats who voted yes on cloture- but only to specific DEMs.

I like Dean and it is unfortunate that he finds himself in the middle of this- but individuals who find themselves powerless and marginalized are looking for ways to "Show them they cant ignore us."

Personally, I need to let the party know that I do not appreciate being ignored- money seems to be all they understand- they proved that phone calls, letters and begging does not get their attention.

Dean needs to let the party know how this is potentially affecting fund raising- perhaps starting a separate fund like I suggested above and then showing the big-wigs the results is the answer.

None of this is my fault- I begged and begged Democrats to do the right thing- they chose swing voters who DO NOT donate over me. THAT impacts my life- so in turn, I'll impact their lives in a tiny way by being very specific in my donations.

A separate fund would provide Dems. with an outlet for their concerns in this- I'll bet folks who dont give regularly would donate to it just to make a point!

[Totally Committed]

112. Now, THAT is pure genius!

If there were an option we could check off that none of our money would EVER fund a Democrat who EVER voted with the Republicans again, I could get onboard in a heartbeat!

NO $$$ FOR DINOs!

TC

[Dr Fate]

114. It would be a way for the DNC to raise MORE money, in fact.

See, I'm trying to come up with POSITIVE ways to adress this- as opposed to - "just shut up and get back in line- we are all ya got."

[depakid]

115. That would be an excellent solution

It's not Dean's fault that contributions will be drying up. ANY half-aware and slightly educated person realizes that if an organization keeps stabbbing its members in the back and treats them like they're a nuisance- they're not going to re-up. Or pony up.

A common sense fact of life.

People who are sick of this kind of behavior by the party aren't going to donate to the party. Even if its just 19 or 7 or whatever the crossover vote is on every single rollover.

Another little problem is that these DINO's make the party look like losers (and in fact are responsible for the Dems losing EVERY SINGLE NOMINATION FIGHT- no matter how extreme or incompetant that person is- and have helped pass EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION no matter how egregious).

No one wants to back a bunch of losers who won't even stand up and fight for them.

And can anyone honestly blame them?

[Dr Fate]

117. Thanks- feel free to "steal" the idea and re-post/pass it around.

I actually think DNC funds would INCREASE if they did this- lots of people who dont normaly give would love to put money in a fund like that- just to make a point.

[understandinglife]

136. Solid suggestion. Thank you!!

Peace.

[madfloridian]

137. And how long before he would be replaced for playing favorites?

Just wondering. I imagine that would be the final straw.

[Dr Fate]

158. Not if it caused MORE money to be raised. n/t

n/t

[Tigress DEM]

147. I'd feel better about a general fund donation to DNC.

THEN I could give to the candidate of my choice, but not feel that I was specifically supporting anyone who has turned their back on US.

[marions ghost]

163. Right --we can no longer continue exactly as before....

To the OP and everybody here:

1. What recourse DO "individuals who find themselves powerless and marginalized" have, to make themselves heard? The Democratic party is only being asked to prove that it stands for what it SAYS it stands for.

2. If we are counselled NOT to make our voices heard, will that really help the party find a way to effectively address our concerns? Once again, it seems to me, we are being asked to roll over, send money, and kindly SHUT UP please.....

A lot of us have had it with that, and Alito was the last straw.

[The Backlash Cometh]

118. I made up my mind on my own, madfloridian.

I don't consider myself a progressive and I'm not even a registered Democrat, so don't blame my actions on the progressives.

I think Dean will eventually win our support back, but he needs to do something creative.

[madfloridian]

121. Creative? Did you say creative?

Oh, never mind.

[The Backlash Cometh]

141. Would you respond to this one:

Why is Dean eliminating an outreach to gays within the DNC? Is that his solution? Has Dean decided to cave in to the DLCers?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2437336

[madfloridian]

144. Until I know more about American Majority, I won't say.

But I can rest assured others will jump into the fray, in fact they already have.

[madfloridian]

161. . Knee-jerk. Read this. Dean and JJ,jr. having a GLBT fundraiser

next week. Hmmm..wonder how many of those the RNC has. Oh, and GLBT community according to the Blade is going to protest at one of their own fundraisers. OOPS. Makes sense to me.

Did you know The Blade hired Jeff Gannon? What's up with that?


I have seen some things on this where he has presented it through meetings with DNC groups. I saw one place where it was called the 50 State Partnership Project and the America Majority Partnership. I don't think it has been officially presented yet.

But Dean often meets with these groups for fundraisers, there is a page at the DNC.
http://www.democrats.org/a/communities/glbt_community /

And a leadership council:
https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute/gllc

And this is the fundraiser this online paper which hired Jeff Gannon is saying to protest...it is a fundraiser for the GLBT community. Yeh, that makes a whole lot of sense.

Please Join

Governor Howard Dean
Chairman of the Democratic National Committee

and

Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr.
For an LGBT Reception

Tuesday, February 7, 2006
6:30 pm to 8:00 pm

Halo
1435 P Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005

$625 – Host Committee (Contribute and/or raise $625)
$125 – Individual Ticket

Event Chairs:
Babak Movahedi * Claire Lucas * National Stonewall Democrats
Bill McColl * Young Democrats of America GLBT Caucus

Host Committee
Mario Acosta * Robin Brand * Jerry Clark * Dave DeCicco * Todd Felts
Jay Heavner * David Meadows * Christopher Neff * David Salie
Wayne Skinner * Kurt Vorndran * Cheryl Ann Welsh

[Pirate Smile]

119. I see that crap all the time. Wanting the Democrats to lose in 2006

so that they hit bottom and change? That one shocked me.

Pissed that Dean didn't make somehow force an Alito filibuster? Like that is his role and he can make that happen. Dean doesn't have that power and to hold him responsible is IMO idiotic.

It is extremely frustrating.

We always talk about trolls from the right but are there trolls from the left constantly trying to undermine the Democrats also? It sure seems like it sometimes.

[Stand and Fight]

120. Bastards...

Then I'm glad I signed up for a Democratic bond yesterday. If you've not done so -- and you are able -- I suggest you do it.

[AtomicKitten]

131. another great Dean initiative to which I subscribe. (nt)

[Tigress DEM]

122. Can only speak for myself in this...

And maybe it is a mis-perception, but in the Paul Hackett race in Ohio, who was it that did a push back on Paul and even though the other guy had said he would NOT run - wasn't it the DNC that endorsed the flip flopper even though Paul had a real chance to get in there and win?

The "centrist" attitude of running a candidate that fits the mold isn't good enough anymore. We need candidates that are about the issues and don't take money from sources who want something in return.

I'm wondering about the whole "campaign" to undermine the DNC, on DU it may be a little bit about freepers, but it's also partly about trust. WHO CAN we trust to really get the job done, not just get their butt in the seat? DEMs on DU want BOLD leadership now before it's too late.

We see the shit on the internet heading for the fan and we reach out to our leaders and they still don't get it sometimes.

I just put together my PERSONAL Evaluation List to judge not only our leaders by, but DEM Solidarity in general.

I want to see my fellow DEMS come together on 3 tasks and hold their leaders to account to the ISSUES below:

1) Tell them when they do good.
2) Kick their asses when they really blow it.
3) Mobilize our grassroots movements into our House of Reps Offices and demand IMPEACHMENT

ISSUES not personalities must come first

A-1 Priority
IMPEACH or through other due process evict all the corrupt elements in this administration.

Select candidates that support
1) VOTERs RIGHTs to have every vote accurately counted and permantly verifiable.

2) Campaign Finance Reform
/ Those DEMS that take RNC or other PAC money that seems questionable should be questioned and only if the answers are verifiable and acceptable should they be supported.

3) Government Transparnency
/ reinstate Freedom of Information Act on privatized "Government Contractor" info for one
/ publish the studies repressed by the *ush regime
/ get the TRUTH about this administration into our children's textbooks
/ reinforce our checks and balanaces with less arbitrary standards than "appearance of impropriety" that enable use to keep judges in check as well.

4) American's rights to life
/ healthcare
/ reasonable regulations on Corp USA to save lives
/ reasonalbe assistance to Americans in poverty or crises

5) American's rights to liberty
/ no Domestic spying outside of FISA control
/ no tolerance for racial profiling
/ no tolerance for hate crimes
/ no tolerance for corporate seizure of citizen property

6) American's rights to private pursuit of happiness that doesn't shove ANYONE's rights down anyone ELSE's throat
/ civil unions for gays so they can take care of those they love
/ marriage can be left to the church, but the church has to refrain from persucuting gays
/ freedom of speech and the freedom not to listen
/ porn, kkk, freepers etc... all have the right to speak their views in public, but not demand that anyone listen against their will - ie Nudes in "action" where kids can see or crosses burning on lawns.
/ our adult level conversations need to remain AT the level of adults and within that space between the nose and the fist that don't meet by intent.

7) Strong Voter involvement before AND after election
/ Continuing to listen to constituents even when not up for re-election

[madfloridian]

123. The DNC had 28 people on the ground for Hackett.

The DFA worked on his campaign as well.

Could you present evidence, please?

[AtomicKitten]

134. I did phone bank work for Hackett here in California.

His support was generated by the internets. His campaign is a perfect example of the difference we can make without burning down the rest of the party.

[Tigress DEM]

139. It's the current run for Senate that was tickling at my mind....

I don't know who would be the one to get major DEMs to withdraw support for Hackett once Brown (who had said to Hackett directly to go ahead and run because I'm not going to) changed his mind and tossed his hat in the ring. Maybe it was their own response to a personal plea from Brown for support. I don't know.

I just remembered feeling that it was a shitty way to treat someone who had energized the party the way Paul did.

And the last line that I snipped from the article has me concerned. What are DEM bloggers doing on any politician's "payroll"? I hope Hackett can win the primary and get endorsed by DNC et al because all of the sudden, I'm not trusting Brown and his political machinations. Ohio is too important to put someone in power who will be anything but honest and tough. If Brown is employing rethuglican tactics, how can he be trusted?


http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/12954178.htm

An angry Hackett says he'll run as the outsider against a career politician and signaled a brutal primary ahead. But Brown still doubts Hackett will stick it out, especially if he can take away Hackett's grassroots advantage.

"The blogs were here for Hackett, and here for me," Brown told The Associated Press, holding his hand high for Hackett's support level and then lowering it for his own. "Now, they're even and that was the only place he had any advantage before."

Senate Democrats like Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee chairman Charles Schumer of New York had given Hackett their blessing, but when Brown entered, they demured, Hackett said.

The DSCC said it would let the situation work itself out. Hackett criticized party leaders, saying he was receiving tacit pressure because Brown, like them, was a "career politician."

Some of the heaviest hitters in the world of liberal blogging, including DailyKos.com's Markos Moulitsas Zuniga and MyDD.com's Jerome Armstrong, have urged Hackett to step aside. In addition, Armstrong and SwingStateProject.com's Tim Tagaris are on Brown's campaign payroll.

[madfloridian]

143. The DSCC and the DCCC are involved in that.

They are supporting Duckworth in IL all the while saying they are "letting it work itself out.".

They are doing this all over Florida, and saying..don't look at us.

Actually there has been more moderation at Kos lately on this issue of Hackett. Kos is also fair to Cegelis while featuring Duckworth.

[Tigress DEM]

146. Generally, Mad, I am a face and issue person.

I support the people who I can see and feel I can trust. I put money down on specific issues. If I am paying for something, I want to know exactly where my money goes.

Since DNC is a large umbrella over the DEMS I guess I just don't think much about it.

I'm probably even guilty of lumping overall support or lack thereof by our elected officials and party mechanism into a group of "them."

Even though I know for sure I don't like DLC because of their stated Republican Lite agenda and I do like DEAN and no big problems with the DNC, I'd still like to see DEAN talk about this whole bouncy flip flop voting the party does. He may not have any control, but can't he at least make the people's case heard to elected officials and say, "Come on, guys, have a heart."

Trust in government is at an all time low right now.

I feel mortally wounded that 19 DEMs let Alito through instead of standing up for our Democracy and at least showing solidarity against the maddness.

I am outraged that another 19 (not all the same - some of those who stood up so courageously against Alito) sold us out to pass a tax cut bill for the rich.

And KOS may be "nicer" to Hackett now, but that doesn't explain why they are on a payroll for a political candidate and trashed his opponent at all. Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

[Stevepol]

138. I love Dean but I will not give a cent if Voting Reform isn't a PRIORITY!!

I have nothing against Dean or the DNC. I just believe strongly that to give money to the Dems when they will not face up to the electronic vote fraud that has taken place and will almost certainly take place in 06 IS MONEY DOWN A RAT HOLE. When I receive a request for money, I send along a file I have on computer about the obvious indications of fraud in the 02, 04, and 05 elections and referendums, and I explain why I am giving my money to those orgs and people who are at least making an effort to remedy the CAUSE of Dems not being elected.

I encourage others to do the same, but if others have a different take, I'd also encourage others to act according to their own consciences. As I say, I really like Dean. He has a lot of courage, a lot more than 90% of the Dems, and he's saying a lot of things that need to be said.

However, despite having Bev Harris show him personally how the central tabulators can be and in all likelihood have been hacked and/or fraudulently programmed, he has not come out with this as a priority issue. If he does so, as I say in the letter I send along with my refusal to contribute, I will contribute as much as I can, even till it hurts (if they make that issue a number one priority as it should be).

I suspect there are tens of thousands of Dems just like me. If the Dems and Dean want scads of money, let them make electronic voting machines a number one priority issue and watch the money roll in!!!

[Radical Activist]

142. Yes, Dean was elected Chair by Washington insiders.

The large majority of people who vote for DNC chair are insiders and they voted for Dean. I have no interest in sending my money to a man who plays a progressive on TV just so he can turn around and give it to DLC style conservative Democrats. I'll give my money to REAL progressives.

[madfloridian]

145. Well, I made my point...or should I say my point was made for me.

I have learned my lesson here, not worth it anymore to try to present logic and reason.

We do not have a chance in hell to win in 06 or 08, and it is delighting a lot of people here.

The GOP will continue with their agenda.

[radio4progressives]

148. Oh Dear: Howard Dean eliminates GLBT Outreach Position at DNC

this may or may not be of any significance to people here..

but just as an FYI, some might want to know:


Dems abolish gay outreach post
Gay Democrat resigns in protest over Dean’s restructuring moves

Democratic National Committee Chair Howard Dean has abolished the Democratic Party’s constituent outreach desks, including the post of director of lesbian and gay outreach.

(snip)

read full text here:

http://www.washblade.com/2006/2-3/news/national/dems.cfm

[madfloridian]

160. Knee-jerk. Read this. Dean and JJ,jr. having a GLBT fundraiser

next week. Hmmm..wonder how many of those the RNC has. Oh, and GLBT community according to the Blade is going to protest at one of their own fundraisers. OOPS. Makes sense to me.

Did you know The Blade hired Jeff Gannon? What's up with that?


I have seen some things on this where he has presented it through meetings with DNC groups. I saw one place where it was called the 50 State Partnership Project and the America Majority Partnership. I don't think it has been officially presented yet.

But Dean often meets with these groups for fundraisers, there is a page at the DNC.
http://www.democrats.org/a/communities/glbt_community /

And a leadership council:
https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute/gllc

And this is the fundraiser this online paper which hired Jeff Gannon is saying to protest...it is a fundraiser for the GLBT community. Yeh, that makes a whole lot of sense.

Please Join

Governor Howard Dean
Chairman of the Democratic National Committee

and

Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr.
For an LGBT Reception

Tuesday, February 7, 2006
6:30 pm to 8:00 pm

Halo
1435 P Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005

$625 – Host Committee (Contribute and/or raise $625)
$125 – Individual Ticket

Event Chairs:
Babak Movahedi * Claire Lucas * National Stonewall Democrats
Bill McColl * Young Democrats of America GLBT Caucus

Host Committee
Mario Acosta * Robin Brand * Jerry Clark * Dave DeCicco * Todd Felts
Jay Heavner * David Meadows * Christopher Neff * David Salie
Wayne Skinner * Kurt Vorndran * Cheryl Ann Welsh

[Free the Press]

150. um, if Dean promises not to support the DLC, then I'll contribute much.

Since that will never happen, I guess I won't contribute anything.

[farmboxer]

151. Dean has done an excellent job. Repubs don't want him

to head the Democratic Party. Repubs would love a 3rd party so they can win easily. Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face has never worked.

I will vote for a Democrat. We can work within the party, stick together and finally beat the fascists. They are counting on Dems shooting themselves in the foot.

[LincolnMcGrath]

152. 4 people is a frickin conspiratorial trend?

:shrug:

You are correct in pointing out many facts that some folks seem unclear on.

[Douglas Carpenter]

154. your post has motivated me to make a donation right now!

link:

https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute

__________________________

If the Democrats take the House this November

10 members of the Progressive Caucus would become chairmen of committees

John Conyers becomes Chairman of the Judiciary Committee

[DemoTex]

162. The DNC dialed-for-dollars today. I gave $110 ...

$110 dollars in honor of the 110th Congress, the make-up of which will be decided in the November elections. To fight the Bu$hco Mad Tea Party, I'll continue to give to my party until it hurts.

[in_cog_ni_to]

166. I may reconsider my anti-DNC stance since there's a concerted effort

to lay blame for lack of funds on Howard. I am anti-DNC because the DNC chose our candidate BEFORE the freakin' primary was over. We all watched it play out on National TV. Terry McAuliffe was on Face The Nation and said he couldn't wait until JOHN KERRY debated the idiot. He said THAT during the freakin' primary BEFORE IT WAS OVER.:grr: Then we saw what they did to Dean with the Scream tape. The media IGNORED Clark. John Kerry and John Edwards got all the coverage because THAT is who the DNC wanted as our candidates. It was obvious what was going on.

I'll reconsider. I'll donate to the DNC soon. OK? :) Next week.:hi:

[CarlSheeler4U]

168. Sheeler It's up to us to bring funds to good candidates

Here's a positive outlook, too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2450397&mesg_id=

[GetTheRightVote]

169. I believe Dean is the only chance at a change in the party

once he gets it going on the local levels with his ideals they will have to listen to him since he is the enternal leader from the grass roots up. We need to support him to get the change we want in the nation's elections and parties...

:kick: