Diagnosing the Green Party: Narcissism Runs Rampant

[Crazy Guggenheim]

http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/frank02242005/

snip

Despite this “growth,” sources at the Green Party headquarters reveal they are in dire straits financially. It isn’t likely that the Green Party’s DC office will have to close in the immediate future. Nevertheless, if money doesn’t start rolling in soon, sources admit, it may well happen down the road.

What is interesting is that Green Party “think tanks” have recently received big bucks from Democratic contributors Richard and Marilyn Mazess of Wisconsin. According to the FEC the Mazess clique has given well over $50,000 to the Democratic Party since 2003. They contributed some money to the Green Party following the election in 2004. And they also tossed Ralph Nader several thousand dollars this past election—perhaps to cover their own Democratic tracks.

snip

[lapfog_1]

1. I'm a former Greenie

I left the party in 2000. Right after the election.

I kept hearing waaaay too many people tell me that voting for Gore was the same as voting for Bush. That votes didn't matter anyway, so why not vote for Nader or any third party.

I didn't believe it then, nor do I believe it now (despite the DLC). I blame the Greenies for making the election so close that Bush could steal it.

I blame them for the 5 years of hell we've had to endure. No, they didn't start the war in Iraq. But the attitude that there wasn't any difference between the fascist Repukes and Dems (some of who are, admittedly, too close to corporate interests) just burned me up.

I resigned the day of the Supreme Court selection.

I am a passionate believer that the environment (and, specifically, global climate change) are the biggest threats to mankind since we climbed out of trees. We need action on this, plus a plan on how to sustain a world population of some billions (maybe fewer billions than we have), plus an economic model that matches that sustaining environmental model. We need the plan NOW... not 25 years from now, and not endless study after study. Al Gore might have gotten us that plan. Or might not... but at least we would have had a chance.

there are those on the left that say "Good, let the country elect a fascist stupid dictator... then they will wake up and (finally) turn to us for answers!". I do not share that sentiment, nor do *I* want to live through the troubled times that will come from such a strategy... and, unlike almost any other time in human history, I don't know if the planet can survive (the one that supports human habitation).

I will not cry if the Green Party goes bankrupt.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[lapfog_1]

18. Sorry you feel that way

but I *DO* blame the "They are the same so I will vote 3rd party for President" crowd for the years of hell that we are currently enduring, with no end in sight.

I said so then (in 2000), I posted such to every other Green party member I could reach. I felt then that Bush has the potential to be much, much worse than his father, and that Gore was a decent man not deserving of the "they are the same" comparison that was being bandied about by some of the Green party crowd at the time. Or perhaps you don't remember all that shit.

How many votes did Nader get in Florida?

How many votes would Gore have needed to put it away, even without the aborted recounts and butterfly ballot mistakes and dis-enfranchised voters and so on.

Only 5000 votes would have put the issue beyond the reach of the BFEE.

So, what again is the flaw in my thinking?

BTW, if you don't like what I'm saying... I really don't care... then is Democratic Underground... not Green Party or Third Party central.
All of my money since then has gone to Dems... and will continue.

[depakid]

19. Just doesn't sound

like you ever believed in the principles of the Green party in the first place.

Everyone I've EVER heard from is involved with the Greens because they're committed to progressive positions on the issues. That doesn't mean you can't vote for the lesser of evils (or in the rare case- actually vote for a candidate).

So- sorry, but the original post doesn't ring true to me.

[AtomicKitten]

2. I wrote for a Green Mag

between the last two stolen presidential elections. I was then and have always been a strong leftie Dem, and we agreed on EVERYTHING except elections. They kept wanting to throw themselves at the top job when I thought they should work to build the party from the ground up.

This news doesn't surprise me.

I just wish we all could get along and work together.

[CottonBear]

4. Our local Greens run for the local and state elections.

I've voted for some greens for local and state elections.
I would never vote Green for a federal seat.

[FreedRadical]

3. I am sure that

I am not the only one who wants to take a new look at this whole 3rd party thing and see grow into legitimacy. I mean am I the only one who grows restless when I watch a DINO make a vote for me thats not for me? And have you read Howard Zinn? What do you do with the glaring realities? Am I in the wrong place for this question? Are we to walk like sheep too? I register as an independent but vote demo. tell me something because I don't like this feeling.

[More Than A Feeling]

5. When a DINO makes a vote that I don't like

I start looking for the website of their primary challenger. Our disagreements can be hashed out within the party.

[FreedRadical]

6. But can they?

Can they really? To me isn't that every issue thatis important to my life and my values gets lost in bullshit rhetoric never leaving me free to drop my gard and believe in the process. Or am I supposed to answer the call of the sheep herder or cuddle up to little BO Peep , Pete , or what ever that little chick in the blue dress name is. I listen I trust I get screwed. I will support our party, but I expect accountability if they expect support

[More Than A Feeling]

14. Accountabillity should be rule number one

Primaries are how we hold them accountable, and support the party at the same time.

[rucky]

7. without public campaign finance

money trumps ideas, and challengers - even from within the party - get screwed. but if we had public financing of campaigns, Greens & progressive Democratic challengers may actually have an equal footing in (at least) local elections. That's why you never hear it brought up in Congress. God forbid they'd actually have to win votes with ideas instead of thousand-dollar luncheons.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

8. Well let's see the Greens do it. As I posted last night in another thread

I would love to see them get out front. They would get taken a part so fast. LOL. But aside from all that, they should be able to get a bunch of small donors like the way Howard Dean has with the DNC and affect a change.

[rucky]

10. so the campaign finance system is just fine as it stands?

survival of the fittest and all, eh?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

12. Not neccesarily. But let;s see the Greens change it.

[More Than A Feeling]

15. It doesn't matter if they have equal footing, or even if they win

Arlen Specter's rating from the ACU jumped ten points while he was being challenged by Toomey, and thereafter, when he had jettisoned his dignity to maintain his chairmanship, he toed the line on judges. Credible, but unsuccessful primaries, can increase party loyalty from elected officials, and isn't that what we are really after here?

[inthebrain]

11. The Dems havent made a good case for themselves

these past two years.

Eventually people get past rhetoric (The Nader thing is a good example. Everyone knows Gore won and the Dems failed to stick up for those that were disenfrachised. Even Michael Moore pointed that out in F9/11) and start looking at positions. It seems to be that the Dems only offer up token dissagreement as of late.

Sure there are one or two Dems I'd like to see go somewhere. It seems if one Dem doesnt have me outraged over one vote they will over another. Almost seems as if that mby design.

I wouldnt close the lid on the Greens coffin as of yet. The lastest Alito debacle probably just pushed them up a knotch.

Speaking of Howard Zinn; We know what he says about movements and people long thought dead and gone. They pop up again!!!!!

[newyawker99]

20. Hi FreedRadical!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mdmc]

23. welcome to du freed

peace

[WCGreen]

13. I was a member of the Green Party in the late 80's....

And een served as the Treasurer for them...

But the Greens are not and never will be a viable party...

They do not offer a viable alterntive in our country....

They believe that small but significant vote totals will somehow get them a seat at the table...

That will not happen since ours is a winner take all electorial system...

We do not live under a parlimentary system that allows for smaller party's to have a voice in government...

No, the Greens need to focus on the local level... Build up credibility and then challenge the status quo....

BTW, I left the Greens after they decided dressing up as a giant snake and dancing around the BP building here in Cleveland was a viable form of politcal expression...

Nothing wrong with political theatre, but if that is all you can do, then count me out....

[eridani]

16. Dems have Precinct Committee Officers

Greens don't. That's all I need to know about the relevance of Greens to national electoral politics.

[inthebrain]

17. The Green Party is far from dead

They won a few elections in 05. 46 of 179 candidates won in 2005 on the local level. That's really damn good for a third party no matter how you slice it.

California

· Hilary Bradbury-Huang, Board of Trustees
· Jeff Chapman, Neighborhood Council, Incumbent
· Jim Harvey, Sanitary District Board, Incumbent
· Eugene Hernandez, Neighborhood Council
· Paul Perkovic, Water and Sanitary District Board, Incumbent
· Nicole Vigeant, Community Service Area, Incumbent

Colorado

· Thom Carnevale, Town Moderator
· Charlie Green, School Board

Connecticut

· Hector Lopez, Constable

Illinois

· Anna Lempart, School Board of Trustees
· Scott Summers, Board of Trustees
· Scott Summers, Town Assessor, (Declined)

Maine

· Susan Hopkins, School Committee
· Robert LaVangie, School Board, Incumbent

Massachusetts

· Frank Gatti, Town Meeting Member, Incumbent
· Eleanor Manire-Gatti, Town Meeting Member
· Bruce Menin, School Committee, Incumbent
· Luc Schuster, School Committee
· Chuck Turner, City Council, Incumbent

Minnesota

· Cam Gordon, City Council
· Annie Young, Park & Recreation Board, Incumbent

New Jersey

· Gary Novosielski, School Board, Incumbent

New York

· Steven Krulick, Village Trustee, Incumbent
· Mary Jo Long, Town Council
· Mike Sellers, Mayor

Ohio

· Dennis Spisak, Board of Education

Oregon

· Matt Donahue, School Board
· Mat Marr, School Board

Pennsylvania

· Mathew Ash, Mayor
· Steve Baker, Inspector of Elections
· Shawnya Calp, Inspector of Elections
· Robert Klunk, Borough Council
· Derf Maitland, Auditor
· Mike Mangles, Inspector of Elections
· Andrew McDoweel, Judge of Elections
· Michael Morrill, Borough Council, Incumbent
· Brenda Jo Samryk, Inspector of Elections
· Marty Qually, Borough Council
· Diane White, Judge of Elections
· Diane White, Inspector of Elections, (Declined)
· Leif Winter, Auditor

Texas

· David Lanman, Mayor

Wisconsin

· Brian Benford, Common Council, Incumbent
· Pete Karas, Common Council, Incumbent
· Austin King, Common Council, Incumbent
· Brenda Konkel, Common Council, Incumbent

http://www.gp.org/2005elections/

[LittleClarkie]

21. Eesh. I'm not a Green, nor a fan o' Ralph, but that article is biased

and hostile as hell.

Two people make up a "clique"? Such a biased word "clique". And why would tossing Nader some money cover their "Democratic tracks"?

Ya got anything alittle more objective on the subject?

[LittleClarkie]

24. Wait a minute. Why is Joshua Franks, of Counterpunch fame,

pissed off at the Greens. Who DOES he favor then? Anyone? Or is he just floating loose in space?

[jonnyblitz]

25. why does he have to favor anybody? nt

[LittleClarkie]

27. Well, it would be nice to see something positive

as opposed to what he doesn't like about everyone.

It would also be nice to see a report from him that sounded like a discussion of the issue rather than a biased smear piece.

I suspect the main bug up his butt is that the Greens didn't nominate Ralph Nader this time, hence they MUST be falling apart.

But then I'll admit my bias, and say that I've never particularly been impressed with Counterpunch.

[GreenInNC]

29. Joshua Franks

Joshua is a mouth piece for Peter Camejo who was Nader's VP in this past election. They are still pissed that Nader did not get the endorsement of the party.

[LittleClarkie]

30. Ah, thanks. That's a closer link than I expected to hear about

but it confirms what I thought was going on. Continuing sour grapes, eh?

[MrBenchley]

22. Right to the point....

This point is especially plangent: "The Green Party didn’t fare very well in local races either, where Cobb and others claimed they would stay strong. Failing to show up, the Greens were outgunned all across the board by Libertarians, Constitutionalists, Independents, and yes, even Socialists in some cases. But many Greens still claim that they “grew” in ’04.
Green Party members Starlene Rankin and Mike Feinstein of California wrote in Green Pages following their November butchering that, “14 states ran the most Green candidates ever, and overall at least 431 Greens ran for office in 41 states ...The Greens won 68 victories out of 431 races in 2004, including 12 City Council seats and 18 victories overall in California. There are now a record 221 Greens holding elected office across the U.S.”
Growing in numbers doesn’t mean growing in strength. Currently the Green Party claims to have exactly 313,186 in 22 states across the US. If this is indeed accurate, that means almost 200,000 of those members did not even cast a vote (let alone donate cash) for their party’s presidential ticket in 2004. "

[fujiyama]

28. Hey for all our disagreements

I have to say, I'm having a good laugh! :rofl:

The green party is a complete joke. It is not a viable alternative in any way.

[NoPasaran]

26. I enjoy a good Green bashing as much as anyone

But this article is a year old. Got any fresher dirt?

[FreedRadical]

31. See there it is!!!..

That bullshit Roderic. Smashing believe with defeatism. Ground downing down hope with fear. I love the bold script WE THE PEOPLE. I take away what Mr. Benchley said. There are other parties. At this point I am so okey with a 34-32-31 split in an election. Or a 25 23 19 33 split. That in my life experience is closer to the America I know. The point is we, through nonviolence, must effect change. Choice is change. DEMOCRACY NOW!!!!!!!!