Is the administration trying to wreck the economy?

[wysiwyg]

According to David Stockman, OMB director under Ronald Reagan, the deficit and debt increase of the Reagan years was intentionally implemented to force the economy into a crisis to achieve a restructuring of government spending and cutting discretionary programs. Fortunately, there were some limits to what Congress would approve at the time although the military spending did get the Soviet Union to bankrupt itself trying to keep up.

Now, there doesn't seem to be any limits on spending with massive tax cuts and, among other things,a bottomless pit of spending in Iraq and the Republican prescription drug "benefits" program for Medicare. The Republicans can't give money to their supporters fast enough. Congressional Republicans don't seem to care how many Billions are wasted or are unaccounted for in Iraq and elsewhere. Coupled with the fact that foreign debt has doubled since Bush took office, adding a Trillion dollars in 5 years, I have to think that the Bush administration wants the economy to crash, wants to default on foreign debt, and wants to radically restructure our economy and government spending if not our entire society.

Are we one more terrorist incident away from having this happen? Does anyone else think that the Democrats and many Republicans don't realize how radical the intent of this administration really is?

[thinkingwoman]

1. Yes

Didn't you get the memo?

That's been the plan from day one. It's the only thing they've been successful at so far.

[corkhead]

4. that and stealing elections eom

[thinkingwoman]

37. oh man, that's 2 things!

That's almost a trend! :rofl:

[alpizzy]

2. Yes n/t

[RubyDuby in GA]

3. I completely agree that they are trying to wreck the economy

That way you won't have money for social programs and everything must be privatized.

[nancyr]

8. Wreck the economy

Of course that is their intent....it always has been. And until the average person begins to realize that they are being hurt personally...no-one really cares. Everything else is a smokescreen to keep people riled up about unimportant things while they're busy overhauling our system. It has worked quite well, hasn't it?

[glitch]

56. Indeed. And welcome to DU! nt

[calimary]

14. Well, if there are no job prospects except for the military...

Hmmm... Fuckit, turdblossom, that's fuckin' BRILLIANT!!! That'll solve a LOT of our problems!

Please don't forget, that's the one thing that ties people like Lynndie "Pointy Girl" England to "Saving" Private Jessica Lynch. Both came from abject poverty and dead-end nothing prospects in economically-blighted Buy-bull Belt communities for any future - in jobs OR (more important in both their cases) in their ability to afford college. They both saw joining the Army as the only way out.

There's a 20-year-old kid at our local karate school in the same predicament, and our area (west L.A.) isn't regarded as all that bad-off, economically. He still thinks maybe his only way to jump-start his future is by joining the Navy. :cry:

And after all, we've got another war (or three) to gear up for.

[jwirr]

29. *s idea of good government is one that fights wars and rules

the world. He and his ilk believe that ANY people programs are socialism. When they get us far enough in debt the sheeple will easily be talked into ending socialism even when it means their own social security and health benefits. Only the next generation to pay taxes can save what we have now by carrying the burden. I do not think they will.

[zbdent]

5. Wasn't there some flak a few years back about how "Clinton/Gore"

was getting money from the Chinese?

And now, the US is using the Chinese like a gambler uses a loan shark . . . one of these days (due to deciding on giving $$$ to rich buddies instead of paying down our debt), Vinnie and Guido are gonna come by and talk to us about our kneecaps . . .

[StClone]

13. Thanks

I like need to use that more!

[Justitia]

6. Official name: "Starve the Beast" (how to kill domestic programs) -eom

[HootieMcBoob]

45. Bingo!

We have a winner!

[Sammy Pepys]

7. Let's say they are...

What do you think the targets are? I mean, what level of unemployment, GDP growth, etc etc etc?

[Dunvegan]

12. Radical coup.

[wysiwyg]

18. How would the economy work after a crash?

I'm no economist but I think enough unemployment to keep wages low is ideal for them. You have to have enough consumer spending to keep the economy running particularly if imports are drastically cut. However, Republicans never seem to get that the better off more people are the better the economy does. I really don't understand how people like Grover Norquist can't see that they and everyone else is better off today than we were in 1912 when the 16th ammendment was passed.

GDP? I wouldn't be suprised if those numbers have been massaged into being worthless for any real measure at this point. Everything produced by the government these days has to serve politics.

I really can't see how anyone would realistically plan how they expect a recovery to play out after a drastic change. While "realistic" doesn't describe the current crop of Republicans I can't help think they should have realized how Iraq would turn out as well. So, perhaps realistically thinking the next step ahead economically is just as unlikely with this bunch.

On the other hand perhaps they plan to simply create a huge hole for us to get out of over the next 50 years which will give them the small government they want because "we don't have a choice".

[Greyhound]

40. I don't think you're looking at the real agenda. In order to impose

a radical authoritarian form of government on a relatively free population, you must induce a social "emergency" to justify the extreme measures that are required to further the goal of creating willing victims. It has been incredibly successful thus far, people are already say that they are willing to surrender their liberty on the altar of "security". Not much longer now.

[Clark2008]

49. It worked with 9/11, too.

The PNAC used this model to either MIHOP or LIHOP 9/11 to get the American people behind a war (for oil and military contracts) in the Middle East.

[Greyhound]

54. Personally, I lean toward sheer stupidity, and incompetence but

LIHOP wouldn't surprise me at all.

[jwirr]

31. I don't know if that is their concern. I think they want to move

social government back to pre-great depression days when each county was mainly responsible for taking care of it's own poor and disabled. There were poor farms, state institutions, commodities, small cash supplements overseen by county officials (i.e. rent was paid by the county for you), doctors who gave "free services", etc. The problem with that is the population shift. Most lived in the country then - most live in the cities now. Won't work.

[jwirr]

34. A good book to read is: The Long Emergency:

Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century" by James Howard Kunstler. It does not come at it from this angle but the suggested solutions still fit.

[blm]

9. They want to collapse the economy so corporations can take over America

and the rest of the world for GLOBAL FASCISM. You think it was a coincidence that Poppy Bush set up WalMart with Chinese industrialists in the 70s?

Coincidence that BCCI showed the global connections of the terrorist networks with Bush-affiliated financiers and their institutions?

Coincidence that Cheney started privatizing many of the military duties when he was Sec of Defense and is overextending the military to its breaking point today?

They will collapse the economy so they can privatize EVERYTHING and young and old men will HAVE to serve the corporate military to gain precious services like healthcare for their families.

[StClone]

19. "Coincidence that Cheney started privatizing many of the military duties"

Wow, I never thought of that. They are purposely overextending the military so to privatize it! Cheap foreign bodies tossed into the fray by the Army of Haliburton. Our taxes for their profits.

[blm]

33. Coincidence that he went straight to Halliburton after Dept of Defense?

.

[glitch]

57. I love the hoops people go through to believe in coincidence theories.

actually, I don't. But they are interesting. :hi:

[blm]

61. Heh...amazing how they want to believe these things just "happened"

.

[raccoon]

44. In this scenario, many women will also have to serve the

corporate military, for themselves and their families to survive.

[blm]

52. We'll all be in service to the corporate fascists to feed our children.

.

[marmar]

10. Trying to destroy the economy, and the functions of government in general

They want us to think government is ineffective and inefficient, so we'll support its dismantling, except for the military of course.

[StClone]

11. You need to ask?

One Tenet of typical Conservative operation is to bankrupt the U.S. Government so that the undeserving (Social Programs) are scraped at the expense of Corporate welfare, tax cuts and military spending. Why it didn't work in the past was because the middle class voted against it. But Reagoon found that to act the happy cowboy, avuncular and smiling, you could mollify the masses. Now with God, guns and gays they got the idiots to vote en masse to give up all benefits of society via government. Kansas lead on!

[Dunvegan]

15. The goal is zero government assistance...

...all services (pension, health care, social security, you-name-it) privatized.

All authority to be vested in a rigid government.

Government partners with business.

Pretend to hold elections.

Whamola!

Fascist Democratic State.

(Edited to say: Oh...and Empire and World Domination.

...Maybe for a 1000 years...)

[BillZBubb]

16. No, I don't think they want to wreck the economy at all.

What they want to do is to wreck the Federal budget. That's a whole different animal. By putting the Federal government in a huge debt hole, they force it to shrink or force taxes to go up. Either way they win. If the Democrats raise taxes to control the Federal debt, the sheeple elect Repugs. If the Federal government shrinks, their "philosophy" wins.

A major side effect of this cynical policy is the weakening of the US economy. They don't see this as happening because their "philosophy" tells them it can't happen. They aren't bright enough to see the dire repercussions of their failed policies.

[wysiwyg]

25. They weren't trying to wreck Iraq either

Most Republicans probably do believe they can do what you suggest. Personally, I believe some of them really do want to wreck the economy to get what they want permanently rather than just restructure government spending; those more radical elements are in charge at this point. Bush is too weak a leader and too uninterested to actually know what the effects of his policies are beyond what he is told.

Of course Bush might be nuts enough to want everything to crash in hopes that it will bring about the Second Coming.

[raccoon]

46. They don't see the weakening of the US economy

because it isn't hurting them--or anyone they know personally.

[kentuck]

17. Trying ??

They have already succeeded.

[WinkyDink]

20. BFDUH.

"...was intentionally implemented to force the economy into a crisis to achieve a restructuring of government spending and cutting discretionary programs."

AKA: Starve the social programs. Who did NOT know this? Why the ridiculous bureaucratese??

[blue in ohio]

21. Marx the prophet.

Of course W. is trying to further demolish our economy.
His administration is paving the road for a two class economy.
The proletariat and the bourgeoisie.
The rich will be all powerful once they get rid of the pesky middle class with their Ford Tauruses
and their kids going to state schools on pell grants and federal loans. You know: the american dream.
When 90% of us are dirt poor there will be no problem sliding down the min wage.
When 90% of us are poor there will be no problem finding kids willing to sign their lives away as
mercenaries to be shipped off to fight in the oil crusade.
I can remember as a teenager learning about socialism and communism and I thought to myself
'why would anyone want that?'. Now I realize that Capitalism is a great theory, but is easily
destroyed by the rich.

We must impeach Bush. Become a direct democracy. And in the future look for the signs of our demise.
All empires at one point thought themselves to be invincible. All empires fall. Usually when a
tyrant is in charge and turns toward imperialism.

[Double T]

22. bushco is creating the super rich elite class that will have all.......

the power and wealth. The middle class will be eliminated and relegated to a much lower standard of living with no way to advance, no health care and no retirement pension or funds. We are going back to the days of the robber barons; throughout history these cycles of 'have and have not' have occurred. This is the kind of situation that will eventually instill a revolution.

[jwirr]

35. I think the chances of a revolution in the future are

enhanced by the memories of what was. In France, the American colonies and Russia they were rebelling against corrupt power with no idea what they wanted or examples from the past. We have that wonderful Constitution and what it was like as the continuing dream to lead the future revolution. I do not think it will come soon, but eventually. It is too bad that it would come to that because revolutions are not pretty.

[Angry Girl]

23. It's "economic cleansing." Katrina was a PURGE.

It's a very blatant war on the poor and handicapped and uneducated. They want all the resources for themselves. They're trying to do the same thing to the countries of Africa so they can get their hands on al those minerals, which is why AIDS money somehow never seems to materialize there, people are still starving by the millions, and the horrible genocides are left unchecked.

[MadMaddie]

24. Don't forget disenfranchising select groups of Americans...

This is what blows my mind....Bush and his cronies on top of destroying the economy...are disenfranchising gays in this country...Wait lets take it one step higher...they are disenfranchising Tax paying American citizens....

[warrens]

26. That was the plan from Day One

Set the economy on fire, cut wages, eliminate employer-paid health insurance, terrify the middle class, and make the rich mega-rich. I heard this all through the Clinton years; business guys I interviewed would complain that the economy was too good and they couldn't hold on to their employees without spending a ton on flex hours, health benefits, bonuses, perks, blah blah.

So they invested in this punk to throw the economy into a blender and get back the slave labor they feel they deserve.

[Panda1]

27. Of course, they want serfs.

[schmuls]

28. Yes. Along with cutting health care and food aid to seniors so

more of them die sooner (less Medicare and Medicaid money spent), and destroying the middle class so the PNAC criminals can appropriate even more of the country's wealth. I believe it is all part of a huge plan. Anyone who protests too loudly can just disappear into one of the detention camps. "Huge influx of immigrants" my ass!

[Ignis]

30. Don't forget this Shrub quote:

"It's your money, you paid for it."

Really, this is not just a funny Shrub-ism. In fact, it shows clearly that the BFEE believes any money taken by the gubmint (in taxes, etc.) is stolen from individual capitalists. We've heard this sort of nonsense spouted by the likes of Grover Norquist for decades, but now it's become our national economic policy.

Fear.

[Lone_Wolf]

32. The costs of an American Empire...

I see what you are saying, but think the story is a little different. Our economy is centered around the military-industrial complex. Tons of money is being spent on the military, especially weapons research. Bush and his cronies are simply cutting money on social services in order to spend even more on the military. PNAC lays it all out for us to read. The Neocons want a stronger military so that they can control the world's strategic resources, and hence, control the world.

[McCamy Taylor]

36. This was plan all along. I predicted this in 2000. Benefits the rich.

And it isnt just because Grover Norquist wants to bankrupt the federal government. This is old style Republican politics dating back to the Depression and old Melon style financial governance. Make the middle class poor, take their land and businesses, get all the capital and wealth in the hands of the mega-elite and make everyone else their serfs.

That is the game plan, has been all along.

[jwirr]

41. One of the funny things I see in this is that many people

who think they are "the rich" and voted for this idiot are going to end up losing everything. I lived in Iowa most of my life. Many repug Iowa farmers thought they were the rich because they owned farms that were worth millions. Sorry boys this is the land the super rich (billions) are going to want when * hits the fan. I actually felt sorry for them because they just did not understand.

[TrogL]

38. Dubya is trying to destroy the planet

and bring on the Rapture.

[Pathwalker]

39. Absotively, posilutely - yes!

Is there a quicker way to destroy this country? No, and they know it.

[earth mom]

42. The greed that has driven this country is what is destroying it.

I have no doubt that soon we will be a country of either rich or poor. :puke:

[newportdadde]

43. Wealth transfer, keep the labor market loose, social darwinism.

1) Wealth transfer. My father has always theorized and I have as well that every couple of decades or so the big money controller, the banks etc like to get everyone nice and over extended so they can yank it out under them and reposes land, property etc.

2) Keep the labor market loose - There is nothing big business or the wealthy hate more then a tight labor market. A tight labor market is what helps propell a class such as the middle class forward, it happened in the 90s, post WW2 and it times of mass die off such as the Black Death in Europe. Women entering into the workforce in large numbers helped loosen it some, now its offshore. Why pay a man 40k while his wife stays home with the kids if you can get the kids dumped off to a minimum wage daycare worker and hire her for 20k and cut the husband to 20k as well.

Think for a moment of the late 90s, as a young college kid green behind the ears I had 3 job offers with I would say another 3/4 if I had pursued them, each of these jobs paid more then my 50 year old father made. They also included better benefits and a signing bonus.

Right now the labor market is so loose I can't imagine being a kid leaving school, talk about night and day. A weak labor market is key for the RW, they can then CUT benefits/pay left and right because you have nowhere to go. So we double your healthcare premiums and give you a 1.5% raise when gas is up 40% and lets not even get into food... what are you going to do about it?

3) Social darwinism - This plays into the whole drown government in the bath tub fans. They want everyone for themselves no help etc. The theory here is that because they are doing good they will continue to do good but maybe save say 100 bucks on their taxes. Of course they think they will save more but the don't realize most of their taxes go to things like treasury debt and the military which isn't going anywhere.

[Nederland]

47. If so

...they are failing miserably.

Almost all the numbers that economists like to look at are heading in the right direction.

[wysiwyg]

50. who provides the numbers?

When Bill Clinton took office he found out some of the previous administrations' numbers were downright fraudulent. If we keep financing the record defecits with foreign money, much of it from China who gets greater and greater leverage, how long can it keep going like this? We still have another 3 years of Bush-o-nomics to get through. Hopefully the Democrats can take control of Congress with enough numbers to start making corrections.

[Nederland]

51. The same people that have always provided them:

Dept of Commerce
Dept of Labor
Congressional Budget Office
Office of Management and Budget

unlike many DUers, I guess I think these numbers are very hard to fake given the number of people involved in generating them. I'd appreciate a link to something that talks about what you say Clinton found though...

[wysiwyg]

66. I think it was one of Carville's books

I always give my books away after I read them though. Basically, the released figures on the national debt and defecits were much lower than what Clinton found once he took office. Clinton didn't make a big deal out of it because he didn't want to hurt public confidence.

The only reference I found to this online is by Al Martin and is probably somewhat "embellished". How George Bush Sr. Almost Got Indicted for Fraud

However, I did find a bunch of Cato Institute papers from the early 90's talking about what a disaster President Clinton's economic plan was going to be. :-)

[Nederland]

68. This is old news and irrelevant

Yes, there are two ways of calculating the national debt. In one case you include the Social Security trust fund in in the other you don't. We've all seen the numbers and yes, the difference is rather large. However, I would maintain that it is irrelevant to this discussion because in my original post I was talking about the trends. Regardless of what methodology you use to calculate unemployment, inflation, interest rates, national debt, income, etc.--the trend is the same. Namely, that the economy went into an extremely light recession at the beginning of Bush's term and has been slowly recovering (slower than usual) ever since.

[gordianot]

48. A real tricky balance, wreck the economy and retain wealth. n/t

[glitch]

60. Not really. Looters have been doing it for centuries. It's what they do.

These people aren't into sustainable exploitation like the more "benign" imperialists.
The key is to move on when all the resources are fully depleted.
Next stop: South America. And/or Canada. :(

[LibertyorDeath]

53. Bush’s Tyranny for a Bankrupt Nation

By Mike Whitney

01/05/06

what is the relationship between the ocean of debt produced by the Bush team and their strengthening of police-state apparatus like unlimited spying on Americans, the NSS (Bush’s new Secret Police), the uniform Federal ID program, the Patriot Act, and Halliburton’s $385 million contract from Homeland Security to construct new detention and processing facilities within the United States?

Is the ascendancy of the police-state intended to balance the catastrophic effects of economic destruction? Or, do the new instruments of repression anticipate the “political turmoil” (Warren Buffet’s words) that naturally results from financial collapse?

The Bush master-plan is no different than the economic shock-therapy the United States has directed at the third world for decades. The strategy is simple and straightforward, but virtually foolproof in achieving its objectives; the crushing of the middle class and the subsequent shifting of the nation’s wealth to the “oligarchy of racketeers” who run the system.

The levers of power have all been faithfully assembled by Bush operatives, while America’s $3 trillion trade deficit looms overhead like the sword of Damocles. As the underpinnings of economic wellbeing continue to deteriorate; causing further job-flight, credit spending, and soaring energy prices; the power-brokers at the head-of-state calmly arrange the instruments of repression they’ll need to maintain order.


More
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11798.htm

[holdyourbreath]

55. they literally want to enslave us all...

and, clearly, they're on the verge of sucess...becaue 'the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.' ...and, for all intents and purposes, we haven't done anything.

[glitch]

58. Feudalists resent Democracy and yes, Capitalism. It is intentional.

They really do hate America and what it represents. What watch what they do, not what they say and it is very clear.

[AtomicKitten]

59. What better way to tank the "entitlement" programs?

[librechik]

62. yes, they're all into hedging nowadays

once the market flops (i.e., S& L scandal) the "right" folks go around buying up everything for pennies on the dollar, and evicting the deadbeats who used to live/work there. Worked great, for the rich aholes.

[AmandaRuth]

63. personally i think

it s social security they are after. reThugs have always hated it, being a socialist program and all. JMHO

[leesa]

64. The last act of a failed government is to loot the treasury.

You don't think they've been stealing all the dough for nothing, do you?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

65. the TOP 3% wants a TWO CLASS SYSTEM

It's so funny watching these idiots that have only a few million dollars to their name puff up as Republicans... They are the main target of the top 3% of wage earners, who are OLD MONEY and hate new money millionaires.

[wysiwyg]

67. Lots of DU'ers are even more pessimistic than I am :-)

Even the basic facts of how badly the Republicans are running things and how corrupt they are should be enough to give even the most mainstream Democrats plenty of ammunition. I really wish the Democratic leadership was capable of coming up with a plan to inspire public interest in what is going on even if they aren't willing to get as nasty as the Republicans were to President Clinton.

It's sad that progressives have to hope for the Republicans to hang themselves by comitting acts so awful they can't be ignored by the media. I really wish our electoral system allowed for people to vote for alternative parties without handing the election to the people they oppose.