Do We Have To Paint the Bedwetters a Fucking Picture?

[stickdog]

There's NO justifiable explanation for what Bush has done. That he broke the law is NOT debatable, and his contention that he broke the law to catch dangerous terrorists is utterly indefensible. The only possible reason for forgoing the FISA court is to spy on people OTHER than terrorists. They are wiping their asses with our Constitution -- without a single indicted or convicted terrorist to show for it -- and daring us to say something, anything about it. Bin Laden is kicking back with 72 virgins and laughing at us while Bush uses him as cover for spying on political enemies and thousands of other innocent Americans.

THAT IS THE FRAME, THE WHOLE FRAME AND NOTHING BUT THE FRAME!!! Why the fuck isn't every Democrat screaming as it loudly and proudly 24 fucking 7???

[MercutioATC]

1. There are no terrorists?

I just want to get your position straight. Are you saying that there are no terrorists?

[stickdog]

3. None caught by BushCo by trashing the 4th Amendment and

the separation of powers.

[MercutioATC]

4. As far as we know, that's correct.

I thought you were stating that terrorists simply didn't exist.

[stickdog]

6. What do you mean -- as far as we know? Where are the

indictments? Where are the convictions?

Or did Bush just have the suspects murdered because HE made himself judge, jury, Congress and executioner?

BushCo tells us to trust them -- that we don't have to worry unless we have something to hide. Well, unless THEY have something to hide, why can't they just get the warrants after the fact from the secret court that never denies warrants? What is their possible justification for completely bypassing ANY judicial oversight?

BTW, I changed the OP at your request. Thanks.

[MercutioATC]

8. They haven't released ANY information.

I'm just pointing out that if they HAD made arrests, we wouldn't necessarily know about them.

Otherwise, this seems to be a rare instance of you and I agreeing.

[stickdog]

11. Secret arrests?

With secret indictments and secret trials or just no judicial oversight at all, just like with the illegal wiretaps?

[MercutioATC]

13. Possibly both.

Notice that Gonzales repeatedly shied away from questions that asked if "any" program would allow certain things. It seems possible that the wiretaps aren't the only things that are being done without judicial oversight (and in secret).

[stickdog]

17. Well, by all means, let's be afraid to ask about those, too. (nt)

[MercutioATC]

18. I know I'm destroying my reputation as a "minion", but I agree.

Get the director of the NSA, Gonzales, and whomever else might be necessary. Let a bipartisan commission interview them UNDER OATH. They can even censor out the "national security" stuff before releasing the info to the public...just demand some answers and some oversight.

[stickdog]

19. You usually make sense, Merc.

That's all I ask from my government.

[MercutioATC]

21. Gee, thanks...

:)

[AZCat]

25. Ahh, oath...

But that might mean telling the truth (or at least not lying outright).

Like water to the Wicked Witch of the West, is the truth to these smarmy bastards.

[ieoeja]

12. Wouldn't it be great to make them say that?

Would it be hurt us to force them to defend their actions by stating, "you wouldn't know if we had arrested or executed any Americans working with terrorists"?

[MercutioATC]

16. I think Gonzales did, by omission.

I also think his "refusal to comment on operational issues" shows at least the possibility that there are other programs that we don't know about.

[sendero]

20. Nonsense..

... they'd be trotting them out right now to justify their illegal action.

[MercutioATC]

22. I don't think so in this case.

They have too much at stake to be "trotting out" anything right now. That would defeat their whole "it must remain secret to be effective" schtick.

[stickdog]

23. Sure, it would.

:eyes:

How does it feel to be so wrong so often, MercutioATC? ;-)

[NativeTexan]

7. Terrorists? Hell yeah! But there is also a Constitution....

...that determines the legality.

THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, IS ANOTHER CONTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT!!

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter.......NO ONE can shove aside the Constitution for their own wild-haired reasons!!

[rkc3]

2. You are giving the terrorists comfort by speaking your mind -

end sarcasm.

And it's 72 virgins - get your facts straight.

[Skip Intro]

5. Why aren't they screaming it? I'd like to know too. Dems and repubs alike.

They're sworn to uphold and protect the Constituion of the US. They SWORE to do that.

[unkachuck]

9. the Constitution is....

....what 'they' say it is....it's bigger than the latest round of bull$hit....

....name me a problem, any problem, in our country, our society, in our world that doesn't have a corporation at its root?....the problem is CORPORATE SUPREMACY over our country, lives and world....

....my way to reign in corporations is with socialism, but Murkins don't like 'Commies' and Murkins believe what their corporations tell them....government has to be made larger than corporations and be governed by people with an ideology other than 'money'....after all, it's 'money' that corporations do best....

....so freting over this or that, is Wes better than Al?, will Howard succeed? is all a sideshow....until we figure out a way to dis-entrench corporate power everywhere, we're pi$$ing in the wind....

[populistdriven]

10. Republicans are stuck in the month of September, 2001

[Rageneau]

15. And are stuck there voluntarily.

September 11 is the best thing that ever happened to the GOP and war-mongering conservatives. Without exploiting 9/11, how could the Pubs have kept the WH and congress?

Sometimes I wonder -- if George Bush somehow had foreknowledge about 9/11, would he have moved to prevent it?

[blm]

14. The time to do that was when Specter refused to swear in Gonzales. Every

Dem needed to stand up and HALT THE PROCEEDINGS until he was put under oath.

The people of this country would have understood it completely and respected the stand they took.

[calimary]

24. Kicking! If for NO other reason, the "Bedwetters" reference.

Oh MAN I want to see that get out there - BIGTIME. That's exactly what they are, and what they're trying to make other Americans into. They want us pee-in-the-pants scared.