Aww Gee, thanks Raw Story..Did you really say not to give to the DNC?

[madfloridian]

Oh, God, this makes me sick. I read this and my stomach turned.

SO...SO...now we have the Greens and PDA who once, many of them, helped get him in as chairman but most donating...we have the people from 08 candidates' PACs giving only to them.

Now we got Raw Story actually encouraging people not to give to the DNC with Dean as chairman.

What's the use?

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Money_shot_0208.html

[Stand and Fight]

1. Don't you think you're distorting the truth just a teenie weenie bit? n/t

[madfloridian]

3. How? On edit, don't accuse and not reply.

I read it. I posted quotes. What did you mean.

[madfloridian]

7. Here are her words....loud and clear...enlist bloggers not to give.

"True confessions: when I queried folks, I told them that I, like so many disenchanted progressives, had sworn off giving money to the Democratic National Party in the wake of the Alito/judicial nominations debacle. And I asked them to consider where they'd spend their hard-earned dough with that in mind.

It's important to go beyond saying no. We need to let folks out in the blogosphere - and among our elected officials - know what we DO still believe in and where we WILL still continue to spend our political dollars."

Now what is it you say I misunderstood?

It is like hey, why is Howard Dean bothering to rebuild the parties in the states? If no one cares and this is the attitude, why leave home to travel and get your head bitten off by everyone....

[zanne]

73. Then I agree with her words 100%

This is the same thing I've been advocating since the fateful day the Dems refused to filibuster. I say "no" when the DNC calls me, AND I tell them why. It's the ONLY WAY they'll listen to their base.

[madfloridian]

76. The DNC can NOT filibuster. The Senate failed you, not Dean.

So why do you think they will say to the progressives, oh we are so sorry...we will listen to you?

They love it when you withhold support from him.

[ChiciB1]

98. MAD You're Right On! But WHAT Can Be Done???

This is more weird than weird... just as I started this post DNC calls for a donation! I go into my tirade about yatty-yatty and the kid is busting up because he's so sincere and dedicated. Calling from MA, oh what a liberal life there. I tell him, guess where I live? He says Oh no, I say OH yes, Cruella the witch is my Rep. We moan and bemoan, he's young, I'm a Boomer!

Soooooooooooooooooo, I give and say just so you keep up the enthusiasm, I'll give you a little of my money... but it's not that much!

I did give, said I wasn't going to do it, but still can't give up!!

Am I sick or what????

[madfloridian]

11. Please tell me what truth you think I am distorting.

Now, damn it, people have been doing that to me all day. Please respond on this.

[PVK]

2. Sorry, but I understand where this is coming from.

And I LOVE Dean.

Today, the DNC called me and asked for more money (I am a frequent donor as is my partner). They wanted us to pledge a fixed amount per month (Democracy Bonds program). I told the woman who called that we had given plenty to Dean and DFA and the DNC and were considering this program but had not decided yet. She was persistent and in the end, I asked her: "Tell me the truth, the money we give to the DNC, does it go to DLC candidates too"? And of course she answered that "it goes to all Democratic candidates". So I told her to pass it on to Dean that I followed his presidential campaign and joined DFA and campaigned for him to be DNC Chair and gave money to the DNC for ONE reason: Because I thought, and expected, that it would be used to advance PROGRESSIVE candidates. She asked me if I agreed we needed to change leadership in DC and I of course agreed but added that it needs to be changed on BOTH sides and I do not want to continue sponsoring DLC candidates.

[madfloridian]

4. It does not go to the candidates...the DSCC and the DCCC do that.

That is just not true.

OMG why even bother.

[PVK]

6. Okay, clue me in. I really want to know.

Are you saying that what this woman caller from the DNC told me was not true?

Please, bother.

[madfloridian]

8. The DSCC supports Senate...the DCCC support House.

The DNC rebuilds the party and promotes the presidential campaign. Dean is extending the party further down into the states into precinct level.

This makes me just want to cry. It does no good to explain, nothing.

I am sick inside. Raw Story, thank you.

[PVK]

10. Then please tell me why the woman said what she said.

She should have said, from what you are saying: The DNC does not give directly to candidates. The DSCC and DCCC do that, as do individual PACs. The DNC money is used to build the party structure and to fund the presidential campaign.

Is that accurate?

If so, perhaps Dean needs to come out and educate some people himself on what the DNC does and does NOT do.

[madfloridian]

12. We have been trying to do that here at DU. Every day. Link right here.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/ourorganization.html

Our Organization
The Democratic National Committee (Howard Dean chairman)
The Democratic National Committee plans the Party's quadrennial presidential nominating convention; promotes the election of Party candidates with both technical and financial support; and works with national, state, and local party organizations, elected officials, candidates, and constituencies to respond to the needs and views of the Democratic electorate and the nation.

The Democratic Governors' Association (Bill Richardson chairman)
The Democratic Governors’ Association was founded in 1983 to support the candidacy of Democratic governors throughout the nation. The DGA provides political and strategic assistance to gubernatorial campaigns. In addition, the DGA plays an integral role in developing positions on key state and federal issues that affect the states through the governors’ policy forum series.
http://www.democraticgovernors.org/

The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (Chuck Schumer, chairman
The purpose of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee is to elect more Democrats to the United States Senate. From grass-roots organizing to candidate recruitment to providing campaign funds for tight races, the DSCC is working hard all year, every year to increase the number of Democratic Senators. http://www.dscc.org/

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (Rahm Emanuel, chairman)
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee serves as the official national Democratic campaign committee charged with recruiting, assisting, funding, and electing Democrats to the U. S. House of Representatives. We provide services ranging from designing and helping execute field operations, to polling, creating radio and television commercials, fundraising, communications, and management consulting.
http://www.dccc.org/

The Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee
The Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee provides strategic services and financial assistance to Democratic leaders and candidates at the state legislative level. For nearly a decade, DLCC has been an integral part of the continued success Democrats have had winning at the state legislative level.
http://www.dlcc.org/

State Democratic Parties
The State Democratic Parties work to elect local, state, and federal candidates in their states, as well as supporting the state campaign for the Democratic presidential nominee.
Learn more about your state party
http://www.democrats.org/local.html

[PVK]

14. What does this mean?

"The Democratic National Committee...promotes the election of Party candidates with both technical and financial support;"

[madfloridian]

16. Technical..structure. Financial...most likely state candidates.

I know that McAulifee promised VA 5 million for Kaine's race for governor.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

17. So The DNC works with the "organizations" but not with the

candidates?

[madfloridian]

19. That is correct, mostly.

It is confusing, but not confusing enough for a Raw Story writer to do this.

See the link I posted from the DNC. They work with the state and precincts. They are for the presidential campaign. The DGA is supposed to be for the governors, but I think the DNC probably does some of that.

I get the impression that the DSCC and DCCC are responsible for the concgressional campaigns...in fact they say so.

I don't think we have a chance if we lose Dean because we let him down on fundraising. Roemer is free and chomping at the bit to be chairman.

I am furious that Raw Story printed this irresponsible article.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

23. Thank you! The DNC is mainly for The Presidential Campaign.

[seaglass]

70. The concern I heard about the amount of money the DNC

has by the DSCC and DCCC is for GOTV activities, I think that is how the DNC supports Congressional races. I'm not making any judgment on how money is/will be spent because I understand that Dean has a different approach. I hope he is successful.

That being said, the enemy is within. We cannot get anywhere without Dems winning elections, what don't people get about this?

[madfloridian]

79. Then don't support the DNC and give power back to the old guard.

That simple. You want it, you got it.

[seaglass]

95. I was agreeing with you, just making note that some DNC

money goes to Congressional races via GOTV, not just Presidential races. I would never advocate holding money back from the DNC.

[CTLawGuy]

71. the parties cannot give to candidates

that's the McCain Feingold campaign finance law. Remember soft money? The DNC has to use it for party building on the state and federal level. They cannot give it to any candidate or spend it on any candidate's behalf.

[madfloridian]

5. This guy won't give because he was not hired as a state director.

Here is his quote:

"Bert Caradine at That Colored Fella (Oak Park, IL): TCF joins the legion of those Lefties frustrated with the DNC currently, but for more personal, selfish reasons. We were told DNC Chair Howard Dean planned to reach out to those Progressives who fueled his maverick Presidential run, by hiring them as one of the four 'operatives' to be placed in each state. I sent in my resume with references and passionate cover letter, and never heard a word.

As far as your query as to how I would spend $100, it would go directly to the Mayoral candidacy of Jass Stewart, who TCF has already made a contribution. Like me, he's a Progressive Gay Black Man who I believe epitomizes the diversity and depth of our collective ideology."

[Cocoa]

9. Raw Story doesn't care about its readers

they don't care that the ads are obnoxious and hurt the readers' computers. They just care about the ad revenue.

[radio4progressives]

13. I just got back from pda meeting, we have a lot of business to deal with

but while we were celebrating this weeks victory in California on the Clean Money legislation (it passed state assemply this past monday and is now headed to state senate for passage) and celebrating the build up momentum for the establishment of United States Department of Peace, and other issues, a few of us were grumbling and comiserating on the Veto Alito campaign loss - Mother of a daughter who works for Democratic Party fund raising reported a terrible outcome on the days following the Alito confirmation - people refusing to give any more money, people reporting they were leaving the party. etc.

Now to be clear, these were REGISTERED DEMOCRATS, not PDA members, not DFA members, not Green party people. not organized groups of people. these were people on the voter rolls, who had contributed to campaigns in the past etc.

So don't go off half cocked insisting this is an organized effort on the part of progressives etc.

This outcome is the strictly the result of of BAD REPRESENTATION and BETRAYAL.

because those were the words most of the people being solicited said.

[madfloridian]

15. STOP misquoting me. I posted a damn link.

People do this all the time here, we owe it to each other to be fair.

Dean had nothing to do with the Alito thing, he tried his best to get them to stand up and fight back. He supported the efforts of Kennedy and Kerry.

You read my link and get back to me. And yes, many "progressives" ARE withholding funds.

That is their right. But I was shocked that Raw Story does not even understand the difference. They even have a post there from Kevin Drum of the Washington Monthly, and he should know better than to blame the DNC for the actions of the congress.

[Bjornsdotter]

18. A message is being sent

...by many Democrats and it begins & ends with money. Many people are making a statement through their checkbook as they feel it is the only way TPTB will listen.

Perceived betrayal and bad representation will show up in the bottom line. Many of us believed there would be a backlash after Alito, it seems to true.

IMHO, people have the right to donate how and where they choose.

Great news on the Clean Money Legislation!

Cheers!

[madfloridian]

20. How do you feel Dean betrayed you:? Please be clear.

I know what you guys are doing, we all do. But why Dean? How does it help to have him fail as chair. I guarantee he won't go progressive,..he isn't. But he's fair.

[radio4progressives]

25. I didn't say Dean betrayed anyone.

No one said that in any of the discussion at the meeting, no refeence at all to the DNC in the telephone calls. it was someone working for the party - have no idea if she was hired by the DNC, the DCCC or other party bueracracy.

by the way, I didn't quote you at all, i simply charachterized your modus operandi - in forward advance motion if you will..

i think you need to calm down a little take a deep breath - Raw Story published story that needs to be published - because sometimes the truth needs to be told. a little sunshine helps to disinfect and clean out the rot, which has infected this party so badly. if the story serves as a wake up call, maybe it will HELP wake people up to do what needs to be done.

[madfloridian]

30. This person just now said that...quote.

"Perceived betrayal and bad representation will show up in the bottom line. Many of us believed there would be a backlash after Alito, it seems to true."

And I said since Dean opposed Alito publicly how did he betray? I am trying to figure the rationale for not funding the DNC which is actually working for us.

[radio4progressives]

46. Dean is not mentioned in that quote, because Dean wasn't mentioned in that

statment in the first place.

Howard Dean had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ALITO VOTE -

Howard Dean is NOT a SENATOR.

Howard Dean is NOT the problem.

Howard Dean is a VICTIM.

Peoples Complaints are NOT about Howard Dean.

I wish the Party Centered around Howard Dean, and though it is supposed to be centered around the DNC, unfortunately it does NOT.

Unfortunately, the Party is controlled NOT by Howard Dean, or the DNC.

But by the fucking DLC.

And it is the DLC that is responsible for the Alito Vote, and responsible for the negative reactions on funding from rank and file voters.

I hope i've made myself clear here.

[madfloridian]

48. Then why is Raw Story, and why are some here...saying not to donate

If they keep up this agenda, it will hurt all of us.

I have not a clue why you go after me like you do, but it does not really bother me at all.

I see what is happening, and it worries me.

[radio4progressives]

60. The rank and file are not aware of who the culprits are

like the gal that talked to me at tonight's meeting. her daughter was simply making phone calls to registered Democrats who have contributed before...

all these people know is that the Democrats in Congress keep voting against their interest - they don't even know the DLC exist per se. they really don't care about the party apparatus, they care about the goddam votes on tax cuts for the rich, on cutting student aid and medicaid, on the bankruptcy bill, on the vote on Iraq, on the SCOTUS votes - they know that it is the ELECTED Democrats in OFFICE that are voting against them. they no longer want to support these bastards. They think by sending in money to the DNC that it's going to support their future campaigns to be re-elected. It's not their fault for not knowing who it is that is responsible.

I think what Howard Dean needs to do is finally break ranks from the party and let the American People know what's been going on. But the DLC will crush him for doing that, so he's in between a rock and hard place, right where the DLC wants him to be.

The struggle is about how the DLC is destroying this party, and with their feckless ProBush, Pro-Gop votes - or rolling over and playing dead, they think they can get away with it, and you know they probably will.

unless those in the community who do know what is going on, tear down the media walls and barriers and let the truth be told about these vichy bastards so that the rank and file can at last begin to understand how we are being betrayed, and how Howard Dean is being inadvertently betrayed and roped by them as well.

[madfloridian]

63. He won't break ranks and go progressive.

There may be a getting together of moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans, but it won't be what you want.

Someone needs to get this across to some folks, and since I don't post in those places...I can't.

It is a crying shame and I see the handwriting on the wall.

I am going to send the Raw Story article and this thread to the DNC to make sure they understand what is happening. I think they do, but the utter outrage of this story may have been missed by them.

[radio4progressives]

64. I didn't say a word about "going progressive"...

(huge sigh)

Dean needs to tell the American P E O P L E , the Democratic registered voters, what is going on.

period.

[Breeze54]

68. Dean won't go progressive? Who founded the DFA???

:shrug:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/aboutdfa.php
What is Democracy for America?
Inspired by the presidential campaign of Howard Dean,
Democracy for America (DFA) is a political action committee
dedicated to supporting fiscally responsible,
socially progressive candidates at all levels of government
—from school board to the presidency.

DFA fights against the influence of the far right-wing and their radical,
divisive policies and the selfish special interests that for too long have
dominated our politics.

DFA has a long-term goal to rebuild the Democratic Party from the bottom up—
it will take time, but we must start building a base now for the future.

* View the candidates that Democracy for America has endorsed in 2005
* Read the Democracy for America weblog (updated daily)
* Learn the history of Democracy for America
* Read press releases from Democracy for America
* Subscribe to our RSS feed: RSS Feed

Governor Howard Dean, M.D., Founder
Governor Howard Dean founded Democracy for America in 2004
to build on the grassroots momentum for reform that his bid
for the presidency sparked. The movement propelled DFA into
a successful national organization in just a few short months.
In February 2005 Governor Dean resigned from the leadership
of DFA to chair the Democratic National Committee.

Governor Dean's unique perspective on rebuilding the Democratic Party
from the bottom up comes from years of experience in multiple roles.
Dean began his political career as chair of the Chittenden County Democratic
Committee. In 1983 he was elected to the Vermont House of Representatives.
He served as lieutenant governor from 1986-1990. He became governor upon the
death of Governor Richard Snelling in 1991 and was re-elected for five more terms.
Governor Dean's leadership roles include turns as
chair of the National Governors'Association, the Democratic Governors' Association,
and the New England Governors' Conference.

Before entering politics,
Dean received a medical degree from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine
in New York City and went on to practice internal medicine in Shelburne,Vermont.
He lives in Burlington with his wife Judy and their children, Anne and Paul.

What can I do to participate in Democracy for America's mission?

* Find a local candidate and volunteer your time or make a contribution to their campaign
* Host an event for supporters in your area (voter registration, house party, visibility, etc.)
* Attend or host a Democracy for America DFA-Link in your town
* Volunteer at Democracy for America
* Students can apply to be a Democracy for America intern

Contact Us
Democracy for America Headquarters:
38 Eastwood Drive
Suite 300
South Burlington, VT 05403
View map

By postal mail:
P.O. Box 8313
Burlington, VT 05402

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Online:
To send us a message via a Web form, please use our Contact Us page.
General requests: [e-mail]
Weblog-related: [e-mail]
DFA-Link related: [e-mail]

Who heads Democracy for America?
James H. Dean, Chairman
As the chair of Democracy for America (DFA),
Jim Dean is committed to carrying on what his brother, Governor Howard Dean, started
- strengthening grassroots participation; and the recruitment and election of fiscally
responsible and socially progressive candidates to all levels of government.
This is a long-term investment that will pay off if we are willing to stand up for what
we believe in and support candidates at every level of political office.
----------------------------------

People who need info should go look for it!
I did!
Sign up for e-mails! They tell you quite a bit!
How are they supposed to find YOU?
You have to tell them that you exist FIRST!!
That's what GRASSROOTS means!!
:thumbsup:

Democracy for America's unofficial motto has always been
"You have the power."

The DFA Training Academy grew out of the need to harness that grassroots power
in an organized, skilled, and sustained manner. With your help, we identify key
skills and strategies you can use to take back your city, your state, your country.
Then, we find experts around the country and bring them to you for a weekend.

2006 DFA Training Academy Schedule
Jan. 28-29: Montpelier, VT
Feb. 4: Glens Falls, NY
Feb. 11-12: Elizabethtown, KY
Feb. 25-26: Philadelphia,PA
Mar. 11-12: Sierra Vista, AZ
Mar. 18-19: Stockton, CA
Mar. 25-26: Memphis, TN
Apr. 8-9: Quad Cities, IA
Apr. 22-23: Miami, FL
May 6-7: Asheville, NC
May 20-21: Portland, OR
Jun. 3-4: Columbus, OH
Jun. 10-11: Denver, CO

Read about DFA Night School
http://tools.democracyforamerica.com/training/night_school.php
Read about the training curriculum
http://tools.democracyforamerica.com/training/curriculum.php
Read more about the trainers
http://tools.democracyforamerica.com/training/trainers.php

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/training.php

[madfloridian]

77. Exactly the same goals he has for the DNC. Amazing, huh?

If the DFA does it, it is progressive. If the DNC does it, we will not support him.

:banghead:

[zanne]

74. It's called "pressure"

The only thing that will hurt all of us is doing nothing out of the ordinary, like continuing to give donations and work our butts off for them so they can continue to be spinless and completely ignore their base. The Republican party became strong when their people finally got good and pissed. They stopped giving, and the leadership heard it loud and clear. And, remind me, who's in the majority right now?

[madfloridian]

78. Besides Raw Story, who is feeding you this line of bull.

Excellent, clever, choice. Hurt the one trying to change things.

Let's kill the ones who are trying to bring the party back to the people so the ones who don't want the people to have a say will listen.

That won't work in this universe. Maybe another.

Who is feeding you this line besides raw story?

[zanne]

80. Nobody had to "feed" me anything....

Insults aside, I'll answer your question anyway. When you put alot of time, energy and money into advancing a cause, as many of us did with the Democratic Party, you expect the leaders of said party to act and speak for the cause. We cut the dem leaders ALOT of slack for the past five years, reasoning that they "meant" well, or they couldn't really speak up because of one reason or another. We were all "keeping our powder dry", waiting for the big event to happen, when the Dem leadership would really show their stuff and stand up for themselves and their party. That was the Alito confirmation to many of us. When they didn't even respect our loyalty enough to launch a filibuster (after all the calls, emails and faxes we sent them), they lost us. (Or, at the very least, our donations). Do you remember the election cycle leading up to the 04' elections when black leaders were saying that the Democratic Party was taking them for granted? Well, NOW I know exactly what they were talking about, and I agree. It's been shown time and time again that the only thing that will make powerful organizations take notice is MONEY, or LACK OF IT. When I tell the Democratic National Committee or the state committee that I'm not donating because of their lack of spine, I'm telling them something they CAN"T IGNORE. They're hearing it alot lately, and I think that's fabulous, because just maybe they'll get back to the ideals of Democracy. Giving them money hasn't given them courage....maybe this will.

[madfloridian]

81. That's just it...the chairman of the DNC has courage...others do.

But you refuse to reward those who do have that courage. That is a shame.

[zanne]

82. Well, I'd give Howard Dean money for HIS campaign.

But not the
DNC.

[madfloridian]

83. Then you hurt all of us.

Because he is not running. He is trying to change things.

[zanne]

84. No, YOU hurt all of us.

By allowing the Dems to sit by while this country is destroyed by a right-wing government. If you don't send them a message, YOU are responsible. (By the way, you don't encourage people to see it your way when you insult them.) Get a clue.

[madfloridian]

86. Good Lord, you really believe that, don't you?

That I am helping Bush destroy the country because I believe in supporting the Democrats. You really believe that, I think.

Someone I used to respect a lot here called me a Good German recently. You are basically saying the same thing.

This is alarming. I wonder how many others think people like me are their enemy.

Where is this coming from?

[zanne]

90. When you have this many people here disagreeing with you....

You should stop and think about WHY, instead of insulting us. You've been going at it for quite awhile now. While I admire your tenacity, I'm insulted by your suggestions that we're either stupid (because we don't think like you), or we're just troublemakers.

[madfloridian]

91. How many is that?

?

[RazzleDazzle]

100. "how many disagreeing" is not a particularly good indicator of

ANYthing. Right and Reality and Truth and Accuracy aren't up for votes. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Right now you're cruising on your own erroneous take on things -- see my previous response, below.

[RazzleDazzle]

99. You're punishing the wrong organization. Honest.

It's been shown time and time again that the only thing that will make powerful organizations take notice is MONEY, or LACK OF IT. When I tell the Democratic National Committee or the state committee that I'm not donating because of their lack of spine, I'm telling them something they CAN"T IGNORE.

For that whole, long list of complaints, the DNC had NOT ONE WHIT to do with any of it. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. ZERO.

So you're mad at the spineless ones, as well you should be, and you're going to turn around and slap the DNC instead. Reminds me of a saying I heard the other day: Harboring resentment is like taking poison every day and expecting the other guy to die.

You're punishing the wrong person, and not only that, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face because the ONE PERSON (aside from a few courageous ones in Congress, and they are few and far between), the ONE PERSON WHO CAN MOST CHANGE THINGS (but not in Congress) is Howard Dean as head of the DNC.

When you withhold funds from the DNC, you cobble his efforts to effect REAL change.

Doesn't seem like a smart thing to me. Seems highly counterproductive, possibly even self-destructive.

[0007]

75. Roger! That's a copy and on a crystal clear day in West Texas

[Bjornsdotter]

26. Dean...

...did not betray me,I didn't say he did. The betrayal referred to the Democratic Senators who voted for Alito. Dean being the head of the DNC has absolutely nothing to do with the votes in the Senate. Each senator is responsible for themselves and accountable to the citizens of the US.

I don't believe that people aren't giving money to the DNC because of Dean, rather because of the way the party is acting/not acting as a collective group. This is why I believe people are choosing to directly support the candidates of the their choice. It's a matter of control, wanting to feel in control and making a statement (whatever their personal statement is).

Your comment of knowing what "We" are doing....who's "we"?

BTW, nothing would have made me happier than to see Dean run again in 2008. He was my candidate of choice, the one I supported financially in the primaries and the one I voted for.

Cheers

[madfloridian]

33. I know some of the "we's", but not permitted to link.

There are many. It is their right. But they are often not Democrats, and they should advocate against supporting.

[madfloridian]

21. Dean opposed Alito. The DSCC should be blamed for Alito.

Why are you blaming the DNC for something it could not control.

[Bjornsdotter]

47. Thunk

(Sound of my head hitting the desk)

I don't see where I blamed the DNC, rather that the DNC will feel the impact caused by ...."the Democratic senators who voted for Alito."

Cheers


>
...did not betray me,I didn't say he did. The betrayal referred to the Democratic Senators who voted for Alito. Dean being the head of the DNC has absolutely nothing to do with the votes in the Senate. Each senator is responsible for themselves and accountable to the citizens of the US.

I don't believe that people aren't giving money to the DNC because of Dean, rather because of the way the party is acting/not acting as a collective group. This is why I believe people are choosing to directly support the candidates of the their choice. It's a matter of control, wanting to feel in control and making a statement (whatever their personal statement is).

Your comment of knowing what "We" are doing....who's "we"?

BTW, nothing would have made me happier than to see Dean run again in 2008. He was my candidate of choice, the one I supported financially in the primaries and the one I voted for.<

[madfloridian]

56. Your posts came across as advocating not supporting the DNC

If that is not what you meant, I apologize.

I have quotes that say if they get Dean in trouble with the party leaders, they will listen to the progressives. That is not very bright....they won't listen.

I feel sick inside since Raw Story did this. Going to take a prilosec and give this a kick in the morning.

[radio4progressives]

32. Thanks! Clean Money Campaign is going to be important in future

races - we'll need to push this through the rest of the country, but at the same time as we fix the elections fraud issues and the media issues,fairness doctrine etc. it all has to work together.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

35. Election fraud is on the DNC site. Here's the link.

http://www.democrats.org/a/national/election_reform/

[madfloridian]

36. Did you know Dean, Dobbs and Durbin just started on that?

There are several posts tonight on it.

Dean for the DNC filed a friend of the court brief for a bill going before the Supreme Court this month about campaign finance reform.

So why are Raw Story and others saying not to support him?

Guess I am not very bright.

[madfloridian]

22. Take a look at my Third Way post tonight.

And welcome them to the control of the party if you guys in your progressive idealism destroy Dean's efforts to help us.

Welcome to the new world...the PPI/PNAC world.

Thanks for nothing.

[Tiggeroshii]

24. Wow

So this is how the "the DNC is losing funds since Dean took power" mantra is staying alive? This is despite the edge the dscc recently got over the NRSC. Would Dean's new efforts possibly have been behind why the DSCC now has an advantage over the Republicans in fundraising?

[madfloridian]

28. What do you think? Analyze it. If you withhold funds from...

the guy who is working to change things...then guess who gets the power.

And Raw Story should be ashamed for that.

[Tiggeroshii]

31. Rhetorical question with a hint of sarcasm

I know dang well Dean's been changing things for the better. Unfortunately a lot of these people don't quite understand that.

[madfloridian]

37. They are purposely not understanding.

I am so upset with Raw Story.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

41. I know they are too.

[kster]

27. The Neocon's have won so far

We Democrats and the honest Republicans know to much about the bogus vote counts, If the Honest Repug and the Honest Dems want to just let the Neocons have full power over everything, Why donate money to this sh*t it's crazy. The silence from BOTH parties is sickening.

[madfloridian]

29. But why are you blaming Dean for that? No one answers that.

Dean has not been silent at all. He has been fighting hard. He opposed Alito publicly when others did not.

Why him?

[kster]

39. I don't want to blame

Dean alone, but Dean is the only one who did a show about the election theft machines prior to the 2004 election and has said nothing about them ever since along with Democrats and Republicans
alike. They all just let the Neocons have their way.

[madfloridian]

45. That is a ridiculous statement.

Go ahead, I know what you are doing. I have knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes in the progressive so-called movements. The goal is to hurt the DNC and hope Dean will go 3rd party.

He won't.

But it is so much fun playing these pious righteous little games.

[kster]

53. I'm not a movement

I don't play games, it is a FACT that Democrats and Republicans are bowing down and choose to remain SILENT when it comes to the vote counting machines both parties have nothing to say about the election theft machines, Do BOTH parties like kissing Neocon asses? Are they playing games with us?

[madfloridian]

55. Dean isn't. He is trying to change that.

But go ahead and make him the scapegoat, and say welcome to the DLC and the PPI and Third Way. They will be your new leaders.

[kster]

58. Dean has

not said nothing about the election theft machines, the Election theft machines are an American problem Democrat and Republican, I know Dean can not be held responsible for these machines, but if he is in charge of the DNC he needs to lead when it comes to the Election theft machines, NOT REMAIN SILENT!

[madfloridian]

61. Then don't support the DNC and give power back to the old guard.

That is your right. Just do it.

[kster]

65. Like you, I try to

get people to understand the SILENCE from our leaders about the election theft machines,The Silence doesnt make sense. If they REMAIN SILENT Democrats and Republicans they are simply STEALING your donation.

[zanne]

94. You're not reading straight.

No one here is blaming Dean for anything. If fact, most of us like Dean. We're just not crazy about the Dems in the Senate and some of us refuse to donate money that will benefit them. Okay. SO... 1) We're NOT against Dean 2) We don't want to enable spineless Dems in the Senate by adding to their coffers. Do you understand or will you just try to twist my words again?

[radio4progressives]

34. huh?

:wtf: :silly: :crazy:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

38. Right here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2447746&mesg_id=2447761

[madfloridian]

42. If you don't support the change, you give it back to the old way.

I think that is a pretty simple concept.

I am tired and disgusted over this, and I am not going to be pulled into a spitting contest. I am right on this.

[Dr Fate]

40. Dean will just have to win them all back then.

It could be done- I'd even support Anti-Filibuster DEMS if they made an effort to win my support...

Politics is about continuing to earn support rather than being automaticaly entitled to it.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

43. It's not about Dean. It's about the other Dems.

[radio4progressives]

50. Thank You! (this happens all the damn time)

and it's really old...

there is a bizarre need to be all about Dean all the time, what's weird is, i can't figure out why on earth anyone would want the negative stuff to be directed about some one who is generally highly regarded?

makes no sense at all.

[madfloridian]

51. Did you read the article I posted from Raw Story?

They said those things, not me. They mention the DNC over and over, and they won't give support. The author is trying to organize bloggers NOT to donate.

It should not be about Dean, but if you withhold from the DNC it is about him.

It is about getting change. We can't do it, we are not capable of working together.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

52. What I mean by this is they are putting the onus of the burden on Dean.

It's not his fault.

[madfloridian]

54. I knew exactly what you meant They are using him for a scapegoat.

For the others who don't give a damn. The ones who will never listen.

They think if they hurt Dean as chair (I have the quotes)...then the rest of the party will listen.

That is stupid.

[Bjornsdotter]

57. Please post the quotes

...as I didn't see anything in the Raw Story link that gives this impression about hurting Dean.

Cheers

[madfloridian]

62. The quotes were made here. They were ugly.

I am not going to repost them. You will have to trust me.

The Raw Story article most certainly said not to donate to the party, and several times it said not to the DNC...which will effectively neutralize dean's power.

What a shame. We have a leader, and we don't even care.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

59. Oh yes. Just like the Greens think they can fix the Democratic Party

by pulling support. Another brilliant idea that wound up getting Bush in 2000. The morans.

[radio4progressives]

66. what do you suppose happened in 2002?

:wtf:

[madfloridian]

44. How can he win when the congressional Dems oppose him?

And the progressives oppose him.

I see you guys are having so much fun at my expense right now. You simply don't realize the stakes here.

We have to have someone in the party on our side who has access to organizational functions.

I know I am being baited, but I am the one who is right. Hurting Dean as chair is going to give control back to the ones who don't want to see in power.

[PVK]

49. Then the DNC has to tell the base WHY they should support it.

Apparently the message isn't getting through.

I obviously didn't get it either, but think about it: a woman calling to raise funds from me FOR the DNC gave me a VERY poor answer!

And her pitch was basically just to overthrow the powers that be (meaning Republicans).

[madfloridian]

67. Here is the original article from that person. This is awful to me.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Baby_talk_0118.html

Nancy Goldstein - Raw Story Columnist
Published: January 18, 2006


Print This | Email This


"Effective immediately, the Democrats will be known as the lyin'-ass boyfriend party - the perfect date for progressive voters looking to be stood up, bullshitted blind, or left holding the tab.

For five years now it's been "Please baby, baby, baby, please! I'm sorry I was a no-show last time, but hey, that was because I was working overtime to save up to do something extra special for next time, which is the really big event - right, baby?"

Last April, when the Democrats backed away from filibustering extremist appeals court nominees, it was, "Don't you fret, baby. We're not going to go to the mat over small fry like Owen, Pryor, and Brown because we're saving the filibuster for the big one - you know, the Supreme Court, baby." Months later, Democrats folded rather than fight John Roberts, the young-ish yes man with a penchant for executive privilege and a wife who used to head an anti-choice organization. After all, they said, they needed to save their energy, and the filibuster, for the next Supreme Court nominee, who would undoubtedly be worse. "

[Breeze54]

69. That was real smart...NOT! Why don't you just shoot yourself in the foot?

:shrug:

Are you working for bush?
:crazy:

First Rule: If you are trying to win?
You DO NOT post the negative stuff AGAINST yourself!

Just doesn't make sense, does it?
:dunce:

[cleveramerican]

72. I want to support the national party....

But they just keep looking stupid too often. So me like many others have just stopped contributing until they(us) get our sh*t together. It might not be fair but it actually my only recourse.

[LoZoccolo]

85. /Raw Story/ already has a tarnished reputation.

They would announce that some story is breaking before they put it up, therefore bringing more traffic to the site from people repeatedly clicking and thus more potential ad revenue. Ka-ching! Point this out and you'll get their squad of defenders after you on DU.

Now they are using the platform they've established for drama tactics, shame!

[madfloridian]

87. Well, I was just accused of giving away our country to the right wing.

So I guess they are after me as well.

[LoZoccolo]

89. You know what, though? These people don't matter.

Whether or not they actually are going to discontinue support of the DNC, they're not likely to admit it when making a drama maneuver on a message board. They probably already know the consequences of what they're doing and if they don't, they're unlikely to be convinced. It's fun to bat them around a bit but you might find that they enjoy the attention people like you and me give them by begging them not to engage in self-destructive behavior. I've put some of them away until 2006.

Also, it's funny that very few people seem to be willing to give up half their DU time for 2006 efforts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2446205

[MadMaddie]

88. There is a glaring problem that everyone is overlooking...

There are too many individual groups trying to achieve their own goals not the goals of the Democrat populace.

And this is the tool that the neocons exploit every minute of everyday. Everyone is arguing over which group respresents who and where the money is going blah, blah, blah...While we can't come up with an organized plan the neocons keep on marching.

In post #12 madfloridian points out that there are several Democrat organizations, all with different purposes, different angles different goals. These organizations are fighting with each other, damaging each other, trying to get the upperhand on each other.

I am not advocating that everyone has to be lockstep but good grief people, if we can't get one consistant message from all of the groups, "Houston we have a problem"!!

Is it just me? Do you not see the problem?:grr: :wtf:

Now that I have stated what I see as a huge part of the problem, "How to Fix it" is another task I would have to give thought too

Just my two cents...

[Generator]

92. I have to say

that the idea that anybody would give any money to the DNC or the DLC really flabergasts me. I think you guys are easy marks. What has any Dem gotten you in the last five years? Zip, zero, nada. Dean is one of the best but what power he has or words he's said hasn't done a damn thing either. Yeah I'm cheap-and guess what we make good money-but for God's sake why waste it on a politician? I rather give it to the food bank or a bum in the street. At least they would know what to do with the money. And it would make the bum happy with his wine for at least a few hours-any money you give the Dems is totally wasted.

I was enthralled with Kerry and I never gave him a dime either. I don't believe money is what the Democrats need. I didn't believe in 2004 and I don't believe it now. They need to call the bullshit for what it is, and do something brave like Will Pitt suggested and walk out of the State of the Union. The president is a liar, a divider and against everything an American should stand for. He wasn't elected by the people either time. He's breaking the law now. He's tharwting the constitution. He does not deserve the respect he is given. What the Democrats, the "so called" opposition party need is not money, they need the courage of their convictions.

The only politician I've ever gave any money to is Mr. Conyers. He actually is documenting the crimes against democracy and America committed by the Bush administration. He tells the cold hard truth. And he has done all in his power to bring them to account. When I see that from other Dems then they would be worthy of money that would be better spent on almost anything rather than giving it to those that are in denial or complicit-take your pick.

I want to get something for my money. It's that simple. If you don't demand something for your money, they will keep taking it by giving you what you've already got.

[ieoeja]

93. Memo from 2009 falls through a tear in the fabric of time and space.

"Well, progressives, you got your way. And look what happened.

"Last presidential election cycle in 2004, the DNC collected more than the RNC for the first time in decades. Terry McAuliffe, representing the DLC wing of the Democratic Party, was able to proudly declare 'victory' as he left office. Then we, the Democratic Leadership in Washington, offered a succession of candidates we thought would make a good replacement. But the liberal activists out there insisted on Dean.

"Well..., you got him. And look what happened? For the first time since the Great Depression, the party collected LESS money than in a previous four year cycle. Howard Dean has become the George McGovern of this decade.

"You remember George McGovern, don't you? He was the last liberal nominated by the Democratic Party to run for president. He ran a campaign straight out of the Left-wing playbook, and suffered the largest electoral defeat in US history as a result.

"So may we now, finally, at last put to rest your outmoded liberal fantasies? If people wanted accused terrorists to have trials, the RNC would have never collected more money with their 'on-the-spot extrajudicial executions for traffic stops' campaign.

"DNC Chairman-Elect, Newt Gingrich, January 2009"

[LittleClarkie]

96. They sound like some folks here

saying they won't help the Dems, but they will continue to stay involved.

[Hippo_Tron]

97. Giving to individual candidates is probably a better idea anyway

When the money is directly in the candidate's hands it is more accessible to them and they can do whatever they want with it. The DNC is limited in how it can spend the money to help candidates. Of course, if you are a millionaire, or if you are just really dedicated to the cause, you might consider donating to the DNC after you've maxed out the legal contributions that you can give to your favorite candidates.

Also, national organizations, the DSCC and DCCC in particular pretty much concentrate their resources as much as possible. They only give money to the candidates that have already raised a certain amount of money. So if you want to see a particular candidate get money from the DSCC or the DCCC then donate directly to the candidate so that they will be closer to being funded by the national organizations.

Donating to the DNC makes more sense in presidential election years, especially if you have already contributed the maximum amount to the presidential candidate's campaign. During presidential election years they are focusing almost all of their resources on the presidential race and if that is where you want to focus all of your resources, then donating to the DNC is a good idea if you want to assist the cause in a sum greater than $2000.

[PVK]

101. Thank you for an excellent set of guidelines!

That makes it perfectly clear to me and now I know what to do with my donations.

There--DNC--that wasn't so difficult, was it? Why can't you explain it that way?