Close Bush friends complicit in kidnap and torture case

[Voice1]

I've had this forwarded to me today, seems like very serious business indeed, I think this should be headline news, but i've never heard about it before. Please forward this to anyone you think maybe interested, the media need to report on this:

The details of this tragedy of civil liberties are fairly complex,
however I sincerely request that you review the article our publication
has prepared. Richard Thomas was kidnapped by the US government without
proper cause or due process in order to facilitate the theft of a
sawmill in Honduras - of which Bill Saxon, prominent in the oil business
in Texas and good friends George Bush and former Sec. Donald Evans, was
the economic beneficiary. We have documentation and plenty of evidence
to back up our case, and the other party has been reluctant to respond
to our numerous requests for comment. We need your help to make sure
that this tragedy sees a public light.

Donald Evans is now head of the Katrina fund - I wonder what he could be
doing there!

http://www.nwmeridian.com/content/060210_01_p1.php

Excerpt from the article:

Prior to the evening of Jan. 31, Richard Nolan Thomas II had never seen
or held his youngest daughter.
In the company of his father, Dick, his son, Soloman, and several other
family members, Richard went to the Portland International Airport that
evening to greet his wife and the rest of his children as they returned
from Honduras. That was the first time he had seen his family since
being seized at gunpoint from his Honduran home in June 2004.

Since then, Richard had endured beatings, a heart attack and
imprisonment. On the basis of what appears to be a bogus warrant, he was
shackled in irons and flown to the U.S. in the custody of the U.S.
Marshals. His pregnant wife and children were left defenseless in
Honduras. The business he and his family had built was destroyed.

Richard has made his share of mistakes, a fact he freely admits. But he
had never done anything to justify the treatment he received, let alone
the terror that was visited on his wife and children and the destruction
of his family business.

His nightmare grew out of the alleged fraud committed by his
half-brother, Gary Thomas, who through the use of an ally in the oil
industry was able to enlist the help – possibly unwittingly – of the
*U.S. embassy in Honduras and former Secretary of Commerce Donald
Evans*. It was through the intervention of these powerful people that a
family business dispute became an international human-rights outrage.

[WesWagner]

1. This needs public attention

Please take the time to look into this - it is complicated but true.

[PDX Bara]

6. Welcome to DU

...from your neighborhood. Check out the Oregon forum for local goings on in the Portland area. There's a group of us who try to get together for a "Meet Up" the first (so far)Saturday of the month - info is posted in the Oregon Forum.

PDX Bara (Portland Rose)

[WesWagner]

7. Will do ... but I confess

I am a fairly staunch libertarian, but that has never prevented me from collaborating with democrats/liberals/moderates or anyone on the half of the items we agree on (civil rights, equal protection, freedom of speach, the press, freedom of travel and association, etc.)

[rman]

53. What kind of libertarian?

A socialist libertarian (such as Noam Chomsky, who has anarcho-syndicalist sympathies), or the other kind of libertarian which is more akin to anarcho-capitalism/free market fundamentalism?

[WesWagner]

54. Both - kinda

I am a fairly staunch free market and socially liberal libertarian. But I believe in a strong judiciary to punish malefactors, don't believe in victimless crimes, want to disolve the corporation as a non person entity, and am willing to conceed that publis education is one socialist necessity for maintaining a free society (however, though government funded, I would prefer not to see it government run - I think economic choice in education creates competition and a better product)

Anarcho capitalism has some serious issues - not least of which is that it institutes a system whereby justice costs money and is not fairly nor evenly applied. Society needs laws that protect the weak from aggressive victimization (but not from themselves...)

There are a few anarchists out there masquarading as libertarians, but the real core of the party and movement believes in a government and what its appropriate purposes is, which is to protect the life, liberty and property of all citizens equally.

[mdmc]

2. I'll give you a kick / r

BFEE is always complicated.

[WesWagner]

3. Every bit helps.

Thank you! -Wes

[WesWagner]

10. Ok I tried to figure it out

Help the noob - BFEE ?
-Wes

[WesWagner]

13. Ok still need help on the BFEE thing

Maybe I am daft - and sure I probably am - but can someone explain the BFEE acronym ?

[Voice1]

15. I wondered that at first

I did a search on Google, and I think it stands for "Bush Family Evil Empire"

[WesWagner]

20. Thanks - :)

Bush has such a network of cronies - and they seem to think they can get away with anything. Sadly people keep voting for them too , or at least that is what the machines say ;)

[Voice1]

29. Indeed..

As you rightly say, that is what the machines say

[mdmc]

21. sorry wes for the hold up for my response

bush family evil empire
welcome to DU

[WesWagner]

23. Meaning of the word family

Well the Bush family makes sense if you mean it more in "The Godfather" sense of the word family - he certainly has his network of partners who are always paying each other favors.

[Voice1]

4. self-kick

Hope this can help Richard, Wes

[WesWagner]

5. plug

Thanks, I just saw your writeup on your blog - it was a very good summarization and extract - I recommend it for someone who has 5 minutes to devote rather than 20.

[Voice1]

8. Glad you approve Wes

I was a little worried I hadn't managed to get across the seriousness of what had happened over there in the condensed version.

[WesWagner]

9. I just hope that this thing makes it

I have been trying to post and email almost everyone I can imagine - it is such an incredible story and the paper trail is huge. This whole thing would not have come to light if they had put Richard in jail for 25 years like they originally planned - he would have never been able to get this story out there.

[Voice1]

16. So glad that at least someone's covered this

Obviously, as you say this needs major media attention though.

[WesWagner]

25. Does anyone out there have any connections?

This really needs to go mainstream and I can help any major journalist get the information they need ot run with it.

[bobbieinok]

11. very bizarre.....need lots more info and monitoring

eg, interview with DA who was so incensed about how Thomas was treated (reaction was mentioned at the end of the article)

[WesWagner]

12. More than willing to provide more information

All I need is someone from a major publication who can run with it and give it the attention it deserves - I have enough information to prove malfeasance, but not enough to find out everyone who was actually involved.

[midnight]

14. Is George in wood?

Does anyone remember the 2003 presidential debates? Kerry accused Bush about having a lumber co. I wonder if this is what he was referring to.

[Voice1]

17. Well, I found this, from Fact Check:

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265

President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)
(Oct 9; CORRECTION: What we originally reported as a "timber-growing" enterprise is actually described on Bush's tax return as an "oil and gas production" concern, the Lone Star Trust. We were confused because The Lone Star Trust currently owns 50% of another company, "LSTF, LLC", described on Bush’s 2003 financial disclosure forms as a limited-liability company organized "for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales." So, Bush does own part interest in a tree-growing company, but the $84 came from an oil and gas company and we should have reported it as such.)

[mdmc]

22. welcome to DU

peace and low stress!

[WesWagner]

27. So now that I am here and welcomed

should I start a thread of advice from a libertarian on what the dems need to do to win the middle and capture the senate and house?

we may not have the funds to play the game, but we know how to get 5-10% of the vote on a budget - and that is the margin of victory in most races.

Also, I am really struggling trying to get attention for this Richard Thomas story - it is important that it gets out there.

Can anyone help?

[mdmc]

56. I'll give this a kick to help out

I'm not sure DU is ready for advice from a libertarian.... I think DU thinks that the GOP will implode, and that the Dems will be the only game in town.

[WesWagner]

57. I hope the repbulicans implode...

I think if they did we would be on our way to a 4 party system, probably with the dems holding a majority or strong plurality in the medium to longer term (aside from the massive majority they would get in the short term fallout) but the dems themselves have a rift that could tear them in two if they don't handle it well...

[mdmc]

58. we kinda have a four party system now

+ gop + dems + .

The plan is to let the neocon con gop coalition fall apart, then have the dems take over. 10 progressives will chair house committees if we win.

Hopefully, we can heal the rift.

[WesWagner]

59. But the real question is...

Who is going to serve justice for the crimes committed by the current administration, like say, this Richard Thomas case... This needs to be addressed :)

[Voice1]

30. Thanks mdmc

[WesWagner]

18. Conspiracy theory

The Thomas family believes that someone may have tipped off the Kerry campaign about this incident and that Kerry was baiting Bush - but didn't know enough to really sock him with it. I am not so sure - but the whole exchange was "interesting"...

[WesWagner]

43. Only thing I know

Bush has some sort of ownership in Lonestar Trust, which owns LSTF LLC which describes itself as "organized for the production of trees for sale"

[Voice1]

45. Just found this - 1998 - Bush/tax evasion/Lone Star Trust

Just found this article, from the Guardian, from December 2000:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/US_election_race/Story/0,2763,412481,00.html

And the businessman at the apex of the corporate pyramid of which Charter was the underpinning was the man who made Bush rich, a market wizard called Richard Rainwater.

There is no reason why - or suggestion that - Bush, Rainwater or any senior executives involved knew what was going on inside the hospitals. But the companies that owned the hospitals - Crescent Real Estate and a spin-off called Crescent Operating, set up specially to manage them - lie at the centre of a network defining Bush's career.

Crescent was founded and chaired by Rainwater, who with others catapulted Bush into politics and became entwined with his rise, both as donors to his campaigns and beneficiaries from his policies. The failure of deregulation is at the heart of the Charter Behavioral story. And last week health care reforms were endorsed as a priority by Bush and his deputy, Dick Cheney. Their aim is to cut public costs and amplify the role of the private sector.

......

Within two days of transmission of the CBS programme, the US government regulatory machine, that Bush now heads but derides, moved in. President Clinton ordered a review of Charter's hospitals, and units were closed in New Hampshire, Virginia, Alaska, California and Georgia.

Charter went into free fall: the company sold 53 of its remaining hospitals; the Justice Department joined the regulatory authorities and opened a nationwide criminal investigation still in progress, alleging 'fraud and abuse...and false claims', to quote Magellan's own filing with the government. Magellan said it was co-operating with the investigations; no findings have been made. In February this year, Charter filed for bankruptcy. Crescent Operating took over what was left of the hollow empire.

But how much did Bush know about his investment with Crescent? The Observer has opened one eye of the blind trust to question how much Bush knew about where his money was invested. Crescent's filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission shows that on 4 April 1997 - three months after Crescent bought into Charter - the Lone Star Trust owned 4,220 shares in Crescent; the documents are available to anyone taking trouble to examine them.

A further document at the commission, dated December 1998, shows that the previous 29 January, one year after the Charter purchase, Lone Star Trust sold its shares in Crescent at a profit of $114,000.

A reason for the sale was given: Bush was concerned about a conflict of interests involving Crescent's investments in the casino business, to which he was politically opposed. Crescent's gambling ambitions had dogged Bush during his election to the governorship in 1994 and returned to haunt him as Rainwater announced his intention to buy Station Casinos of Las Vegas.

There is another twist to the Crescent stock sale: Bush's trust sold this 'blind' stock when shares were at their peak value of $40 each - for a total of $168,800. Shortly after the sale, Crescent's stock plunged to $21 per share.

Later in 1998, the Lone Star Trust was liquidated as Bush prepared his bid for the presidency. In November of that year, John Goff resigned from Charter Behavioral's board.

......

Now, i'm not too well up on these sorts of financial matters, but surely if the Lone Star trust was liquidated in 1998, there is something rather strange going on with this Lone Star Trust, and LSTF LLC? How, when this Lone Star Trust was liquidated in 1998, could it have held a 50% share in this company "organized "for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales" in 2001? How could Bush receive an income from a liquidated company, 3 years after the fact?

A report on Crescent Real estate and Harry Whittington, from The Austin Chronicle:
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2002-08-23/pols_feature6.html

While the appeals process trudges along, the Whittington property continues operating as a surface parking lot, and the city moves ahead on its garage plans as though nothing stands in its way. An architectural team was hired to design the structure, and the city has set a completion date for some time in 2004, although a groundbreaking date is still up in the air. As for Whittington, no one expects him to back away from this fight. As a lawyer and owner of several downtown properties, he's no slouch when it comes to real estate deals. In the mid-Eighties he orchestrated the development of the Austin Centre, which houses offices and the Omni Hotel, and later sold the property to the developer after signing off on the design. The project went on to become downtown's most valuable property in the late Nineties, when Crescent Real Estate cheerfully paid $96.4 million for the booty. In a similar vein, Whittington says, he wants to capitalize on revitalization efforts in the Convention Center neighborhood by putting a mixed-use development on his block, located a stone's throw from Waller Creek.

By posting the above, i'm not implying anything in particular, merely posting what may become important articles.

[WesWagner]

49. The whole thing is curious

And complicated - in 2001 Richard and Dick managed to turn the mill around and it was producing a profit for its first time ever, the timing is suspicious, but certainly not a chain of facts taht can be linked with what we have.

[Voice1]

61. What seems curious to me

When doing searches for the company and any mention of Thomas's, I can never find any mention of Gary, Ollie's name appears several times, but it's almost like Gary never had anything to do with the business.

[WesWagner]

64. Ollie did most the sales

Gary just liked to watch her work and then when things got really busy, Richar dand Dick made him come down to Honduras to help with the flooring equipment.

Ollie was the real brains of that twosome in my opinion - though Gary certainly did his share of making deals with Hodges, Saxon and keeping their bank Rick Waldraff on their side. He also still had alot of work shuffling around assets in the Princess Group (the whole tanning salon, texas comptroller tax thing is a fiasco)...

Anyway, glad you are looking into it - if you find anything particularly interesting, send it my way!

[Voice1]

65. Princess Group - This Princess Group Wes?

Just done a quick search for "princess Group" and "Texas" on Google - Is this the same one?

http://bankrupt.com/TCR_Public/041210.mbx

PRINCESS GROUP: Case Summary & 3 Largest Unsecured Creditors
------------------------------------------------------------
Debtor: Princess Group, Inc.
aka Get Fit Day Spa
915 Skyline Drive
Arlington, Texas 76011

Bankruptcy Case No.: 04-91816

Type of Business: The Company operates a salon, spa and gift shop.
See http://www.getfitdayspa.com/

Chapter 11 Petition Date: December 6, 2004

Court: Northern District of Texas (Ft. Worth)

Judge: Russell F. Nelms

Debtor's Counsel: Frank R. Jelinek, III, Esq.
Frank R. Jelinek, Inc.
801 East Abram, Suite 102
Arlington, Texas 76010
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Total Assets: $1,526,000

Total Debts: $671,339

Debtor's 3 Largest Unsecured Creditors:

Entity Nature of Claim Claim Amount
------ --------------- ------------
Betsy Price State, County, $36,708
Tax Assessor/Collector City & School ad
100 East Weatherford Street valorem taxes for
Fort Worth, Texas 76196 the real property
owned by debtor

Betsy Price State, County, $4,941
Tax Assessor/Collector City & School District
100 East Weatherford Street ad valorem taxes on
Fort Worth, Texas 76196 personal property.

Linebarger, Goggan, Blair & Attorney's fees on Unknown
Sampson unpaid ad valorem
Oil & Gas Building, Suite 100 tax claim
309 West 7th Street
Fort Worth, Texas 76102

[WesWagner]

66. You got it!

You are correct sir.

[Voice1]

78. Bush's timber company

Seems this LSTF LLC could be the "Lone Star Tree Farm", did a search on Google, and found this:

Root of mystery is tree farm
http://www.testycopyeditors.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3034&sid=acfea79fe1c231445a0afab3df8d6c01

Web Posted: 10/13/2004 12:00 AM CDT
Joseph S. Stroud
San Antonio Express-News

President Bush doesn't own a timber company, it turns out, but he can make good on the wood he offered during last week's debate with Sen. John Kerry.

But not for lumber, only for shade. And the trees won't be available until 2007.

Bush entered into a partnership several years ago with John Taylor, who had moved with his family to Jonesboro from San Antonio, and wound up in business with the president of the United States.

Bush, Taylor said, helped him fulfill a dream of starting a tree farm after a brief conversation at the president's ranch near Crawford. The deal came together after Bush hired Taylor's construction company to do some remodeling work.

"I think that he heard through the grapevine that that was kind of a goal of mine was to start a tree farm operation," Taylor said. "And he kind of brought it up with me one day, and I think I popped off and said 'Well, you want to go into business or something doing it?' And he said 'Well, let's look at it.'"

Under terms of the partnership, owned equally by Taylor and Bush, the president put up some $225,000 to finance the Lone Star Tree Farm, according to Robert McCleskey, a Midland accountant who runs the president's personal trust fund and helped set up the tree farm.

Taylor manages the farm — not a timber company at all, but 50 to 70 acres of oaks, elms and cypress trees intended for commercial sale and replanting — on the president's ranch.

At last week's debate in St. Louis, in one of the strangest exchanges of the campaign so far, Kerry suggested during a discussion about tax policy that the Republican incumbent "got $84 from a timber company that (he) owns, and he's counted as a small business."

Bush couldn't have looked more stunned if Kerry had said he had been brainwashed by Martians.

"I own a timber company?" the president said. "That's news to me."

Then, after a pause, Bush drew the biggest laugh of the night when he shrugged and said: "Want some wood?"

The exchange drew scarcely a mention in television "fact-checking" segments broadcast after the debate. Nobody seemed to have a clue what Kerry was talking about.

Turns out Kerry didn't either, though it may not have been his fault entirely.

The source of the error was a nonpartisan Web site at the University of Pennsylvania, factcheck.org, which had posted an item saying Bush would have qualified as a small business owner based on $84 worth of income listed on his 2001 federal income tax returns "from a timber growing enterprise."

That income came from an oil and gas well Bush owns, McCleskey said, and had nothing to do with the tree farm.

Factcheck.org, which has been cited by both sides as an authority on campaign claims, later corrected the item, noting Bush had listed the income as being from "oil and gas production" on his 2001 tax return.

As they watched the debate at home, John and Elizabeth Taylor didn't realize initially that Kerry might have been referring to the tree farm.

"We didn't even connect the two," Elizabeth Taylor said. "A timber company and growing live trees is such an opposite thing that it didn't click right away. It kind of took a few minutes, and we were just kind of like, 'Surely he's not talking about the tree farm where we're growing trees.'"

Kerry's larger point — that as a small business owner Bush might benefit from the lower taxes he was promoting — was correct, although it had nothing to do with the $84.

The Taylors, who have three children, moved from San Antonio to Jonesboro around 1998. Elizabeth Taylor's father lived near there, and they were looking for a place where John Taylor could pursue his dream of starting a tree farm.

"That's where we found some land," John Taylor said. "My goal was to buy some land and raise my kids in the country on a ranch."

The connection with the Bushes began after a realtor suggested Taylor's company for some remodeling work on a guest house at the ranch.

[WesWagner]

81. Not much happened today

Not much in the way of developments. Still waiting to hear back from Saxon.

[WesWagner]

19. SIGN THE PETITION!

http://www.petitiononline.com/rnt11111/petition.html

Sign the petition calling for an independent counsel to investigate charges of kidnapping and conspiracy.

[Voice1]

31. Good idea

Please, any US citizens who have read the article, and agree that several abuses of power have taken place, sign the petition, and please spread the word.

[WesWagner]

24. Well the bush defenders have gotten a hold of it

They are starting to say, well he had a 7 year old invalid arrest warrant, so that justifies everything - pretty much the expected spin to defend a regime that has a terrible record of human rights violations.

[Voice1]

32. That's the rabid right for you

Someone confronts them with the facts, and they can't handle them.

[WesWagner]

26. More people are starting to talk to me...

Got some interesting emails today.

[Voice1]

33. Oh interesting

Can you give us any more information?

[WesWagner]

38. Not until I validate it...

I have to fact check before I can distribute anything. The people I am dealing with have alot of money for alot of lawyers, and I am treading very carefully.

[Voice1]

40. No problem

Completely understand that, given those involved.

[WesWagner]

42. Yeah the whole thing is complicated

There are many malefactors in this case - so many it makes it difficult to get across, but it is the exact reason why prosecution is so necessary. Just because there are so many people who did so many things, is not a reason to give up on trying to dispense justice.

[WesWagner]

28. It has started.

Now Saxon is threatening me.

[Voice1]

34. If the threats are in writing, would it be worth posting them?

So others can see what has been written, and you have back up?

[WesWagner]

35. From Saxon

Instead of answering any of my questions, he waited 8 days only to make vague legal threats in our direction. Technically he did not deny anything, he just claimed we had bad information.

"let me warn you about publishing
any thing that you do not know to be true...by the questions you have
asked me, it appears you have some very bad information and I repeat,
you should be very careful about publishing that information, if that is
what you are planning to do"

I doubt he realized how much paperwork I really have.

[Voice1]

36. Would it be ok to post that quote elsewhere?

Just wondering if that quote could be used elsewhere when talking about this issue? Eg. on a blog, message board, etcc..

[WesWagner]

37. In for a penny in for a pound...

Go ahead - here is the questions I asked him that he declined to answer:

Mr Saxon,

We are preparing an article on the Thomas family and their involvement
with the Maderas Tucan mill in Olancho Honduras. We would appreciate if
you could answer a few questions:

In some of your correspondence you claim that Richard Nolan Thomas II
and his father Richard Nolan Thomas Sr. had placed an illegal labor
claim in Honduran court, however in the same and other correspondence
you state that you knew about the claim and that its purpose was to free
the mill of other encumbrances. Could you clarify why in letters to
Donald Evans and other parties you claim that this lawsuit was illegal?

I have a copy of the letter of intent was was signed by your manager, JD
Hodges, and Gary Thomas detailing the deal to purchase the mill
equipment for ~$7.8M. It does not discuss the physical property, does
this imply that you knew the land would be transferred by the Thomases
labor lien?

Further the letter of intent states that you would be paid in full
before any of your investors. Did your investors agree to give your
claim higher priority?

Richard Thomas disagrees with the $7.8M price tag in the letter of
intent, he alleges that Gary was only authorized to make a deal for
closer to $2M. Why did Gary agree to such a high price?

Did Gary and Ollie ever make good on any payments under the agreement?

What is the current status and disposition of the mill, have you
foreclosed on it effectively due to non-payment?

We have systematically uncovered a chain of evidence that shows that
Gary and Ollie were stealing from Proforh and were negotiating customer
checks in their own bank, and falsifying inventory reports. They also
falsified shipping documents to Travis Holman (for which he has a >$2M
outstanding judgment against Gary) in order to steal payments from him
and subsequently shipped the product directly to his customers and
accepted their payments. Did you ever become aware of that situation, if
so, when?

Did you have direct conversation with the US embassy in Honduras to
request their assistance, or only with Evans?

Could you provide a copy of the contract between the Thomas family and
Maderas Tucan?

Is there anything else you think I should know?

[Voice1]

39. Interesting

He obviously wanted to divert attention from the facts, with the blatent threat. A typical truth suppression technique.

Please keep us all updated on this Wes.

To anyone reading this thread, if you have a blog, or website, Wes has said it is ok to quote from this, please, let's get this news out to more people.

[WesWagner]

41. Precisely

We need help to expose this here people - please vote for this thread and post it on your blogs. The truth of this needs to come out... who knows how many people this has happened to, we need to take the one provable case we have forward into the light of day if anything is to change!

[WesWagner]

44. Possible reprints

There is some talk of some local papers in the texas jurisdictions reprinting the story - will post some details when they are fully known.

[Voice1]

46. Perhaps remind those considering publishing reports..

Tax evasion may come into this whole sordid affair as well, see post with link from 1998 article Wes. Obviously still no proven links, but there may well be at some stage.

[WesWagner]

50. Al Capone method?

Can't get them on conspiracy, laundering, theft or anything else, so you charge them with tax evasion?

[Voice1]

51. Tax evasion could be the start to a bigger story

Once they start to report on the story, they will have to dig deeper, you know what some of the media is like Wes, the simpler the better for them, if you give them the details in bitesized chunks, it may be easier to tempt them to run with the story?

For example, maybe start with questioning if the Lone Star trust is in any way linked to Maderas Tucan? (Obviously set your own starting point from the information you have) From there you can work up to major scandals, including those hospital scandals involving the Lone Star Trust, and that should set off a chain leading to the whole sordid affair coming out, if you see what I mean?

It seems to me though that considering that the mainstream media is very often very lazy, perhaps tax evasion would make a good start to their investigations? Remember, we really haven't heard much about any of the major financial scandals involving Bush since before "911".

[WesWagner]

80. Hmmm tax evasion...

Well I am pretty sure that Gary and Ollie did not pay taxes on all the money they stole - they had a history of not paying their taxes as is evident by the numerous civil actions against them by the State of Texas.

[WesWagner]

60. Possible reprints looking better

Doing better on the possible reprint front... looks like it might be going out in some newspapers in Texas.

Please keep trying ot get the word out there so this goes national!!!!

[Voice1]

62. Great news Wes

Yes, please, everyone, we need to keep pushing on this.

Wes, is there anything you have which could assist us in our research, by means of any links between the District Attorney, and the Republican party?

For instance, does Travis Koehn, or Dan Leeder know the Bush's, or other senior regime officials? Any financial ties you know of?

[WesWagner]

69. Dan Leedy running for judge

Dan Leedy is running for judge in Austin County - he switched to the republican party not too long ago according to most people, though his republican opponent in the primary appears to be better financed.

Travis Koehn, when contacted by a different reporter than I claimed he was not intimately involved in the Richard Thomas case and left the details of it to Dan Leedy...

Is Dan being setup to take the fall?

[Voice1]

47. Wes - Proforh still operating?

I thought the company had been renamed, from reading some translated Spanish pages, that appeared to be the impression given, but I just found this website:

http://www.proforh.com

Seems to be the right company judging by other searches on Google for "thomas" and "proforh"

This whole business is very strange.

[WesWagner]

48. They are kind of still operating

Yeah, Levy Cooper (ollie's nephew) was running the mill with Gary for a while there after the whole fiasco. Rumor has it that they haven't shipped a container of flooring or lumber in months.

[Voice1]

52. Oh right

So do they now operate under 2 different names then Wes?

[WesWagner]

55. I think they might sell as Pine Floors sometimes

I think that they would sometimes sell as Pine Floors - it got mentioned as being run by Levy Cooper, Ollie's nephew, in a european report on illegal timber cutting in Honduras in 2005.

[Voice1]

63. Right, yes, think I saw that one come up on searches

[WesWagner]

67. Well I am glad your blog picked up on it

However I am having a devil of a time getting other blogs to take notice. I am starting to have some better luck with the conventional press in Texas.

[Voice1]

68. Maybe people take some time to digest whole story

I had to read the article several times over before it really started to sink in, as your article, thankfully, contains a lot of information, and, of course there are interlinking issues.

[WesWagner]

70. Need soundbites...

Yeah I am hoping some people digest it and pick out the gems that they can turn into sound bites...

[Voice1]

77. Oil boss and Bush ally in Honduras sovereignty scandal?

How's that?

[WesWagner]

79. Hmmm -- not quite punchy enough

How about Texas Oil Buddy and Bush cabinet member cause international human rights outrage.... err too long... back to the drawing board.

[Voice1]

90. You could fill a newspaper with everything linked

Seems that all the various links with this story could fill a whole newspaper with a whole lot of articles Wes.

It would certainly take some time to think up catchy headlines for all of them.

[Voice1]

71. Larry Palmer replaced by adviser to asst. sec. of commerce

Have you seen this Wes? Bush nominated Charles Ford to be US Ambassador to Honduras last year, rather interersting when you look at his previous job:

http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2005/0603/epf502.htm

Charles Ford, currently the senior adviser to the assistant secretary of commerce for the U.S. and Foreign Commercial Service, will be nominated as ambassador to Honduras. Ford was previously special adviser to the assistant secretary of state for economic and business affairs.

Now, Larry Palmer became the president of the "Inter American Foundation", according to this:
http://www.latribuna.hn/92597.html

Translated (roughly):

The ex- ambassador of the United States, Larry Palmer Leon, said yesterday that the acts of possession taking, celebrated in the National Stage, demonstrate that the democracy yes works in Honduras.

Palmer, that now evolves like president of the Inter-American Foundation, showed that three years ago it knew president Manuel Zelaya Rosales now, when both agreed in a celebration of the Foundation Martin Luther King.

I've never heard of this "Inter American foundation", but they have a website:
http://www.iaf.gov/index/index_en.asp

The Inter-American Foundation (IAF) is an independent foreign assistance agency of the United States government, working to promote equitable, responsive, and participatory self-help development in Latin America and the Caribbean. According to Part IV, Section 401(b) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1969, "it shall be the purpose of the Foundation, primarily in cooperation with private regional, and international organizations, to:

Strengthen the bonds of friendship and understanding among the peoples of this hemisphere;

Support self-help efforts designed to enlarge the opportunities for individual development;


Stimulate and assist effective and ever wider participation of the people in the development process;


Encourage the establishment and growth of democratic institutions, private and governmental,
appropriate to the requirements of the individual sovereign nations of this hemisphere."

The guiding principles of the Inter-American Foundation are to support people, organizations, and processes; channel funds directly to the non-governmental sector; promote entrepreneurship, innovation, and self-reliance; strengthen democratic principles; empower poor people to solve their own problems; and treat partners with respect and dignity.

Sounds rather like another meddling effort, if you see what I mean.

[WesWagner]

72. You want a real hoot

Look into John Negroponte and the Honduran Death Squads... it seems that the Honduran embassy for a while has been a proving ground for future administrative officials.

[Voice1]

75. Oh yes

I've read quite a bit about those death squads, not only Honduras either, El Salvador, and Iraq now. the brutal dictatorship in Kazakhstan uses similar tactics.

[WesWagner]

96. What is sad...

is that if you tell the average american that the CIA ran death squads in Honduras to murder undesireables, they would not want ot believe you - hence the readon our government can continue to get away with it.

[Voice1]

98. Well, a timely reminder perhaps

For those who don't want to believe that their regime can do no wrong:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52001-2005Mar20.html

Over the years, Velasquez has gotten the CIA, an official Honduran ombudsman and an international human rights court to acknowledge that the Honduran army was responsible for her brother Manfredo's kidnapping and presumed killing. But Negroponte has repeatedly insisted that military-backed death squads did not operate in Honduras while he was ambassador.

The selection of Negroponte for the new post of national intelligence director has focused renewed attention on the question of how much he knew about the Honduran military's involvement in nearly 200 unsolved kidnappings during the 1980s, and what he did about it. The subject has dogged him in the past, and Democratic staff members said it is likely to be revisited when the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence holds nomination hearings, tentatively scheduled for April 12.

A review of hundreds of declassified State Department and CIA documents suggests that Negroponte was preoccupied with "managing perceptions" about a country that had become a key U.S. ally in a decade-long campaign to stop the spread of communism in Central America. The documents show that he sought to depict Honduras in a generally positive light in annual human rights reports to Congress, and played down allegations of government abuse.

There are of course many, many more reports

[WesWagner]

99. It sickens me.

The whole situation just plain makes me sick. The american people have been so negligent in curtailing the actions of our government, holding them accountable, and have allowed ourselves to fall victim to propoganda - heck our congress just recently approved a multi-billion dollar propoganda budget!

[Voice1]

100. Heading the same way over here

Unfortunately we're heading the same way over here Wes. There's been uproar, quite rightly over here about the use of British airspace in CIA torture flights, Blair & Co have been caught lying about it.

Also, there was news yesterday that so called "anti terror" laws had been abused when 3 stars of the Road to Guantanamo film were arrested.

Blair & Co have almost got everything they hoped for on their Orwellian id card scam, although they claim id cards won't be compulsory without further legislation in a compromsie, the compromise will affect all those applying for new passports after 2008 - everyone will have to get their fingerprints and/or irisis scanned.

Add onto that the fact that our police can now murder innocent Brazilians on the London underground, and our defence secretary believes its ok to torture and abuse because "thousands of Americans died" on "911" and we have a real nightmare.

[WesWagner]

101. I guess George and Tony really are two peas in a pod

The sad part about things over here is that the liberals (democrats) gave the government most of the powers that Bush is now abusing. While pushing their socialist agenda they fail to recognize what the expanded power of government may be capable of once it is in the other side's hands. (ther eare also a few exceptions, but this is generally true) - the most obvious of these items is the war powers act - which without - Bush could have never gone to Iraq or numerous other places without a formal declaration of war.

When the legislative body cedes responsibility to the executive branch, it is a quick step towards totalitarianism and fascism.

Perhaps the U.S. and U.K. will be the Germany of Italy of the 21st century if we continue down this path.

[WesWagner]

73. Mailings going out

A copy of this story has been sent to all 15 democrats on the Homeland Security Committee, as well as Harry Reid and Hillary Clinton. Hopefully they can use it to their advantage in some manner.

[WesWagner]

74. Hoping to hear from a few people soon

Stay tuned - in theor James Garner and John Elway (two of the silent investors of Bill Saxon) should be getting their packets soon.

[Voice1]

76. Let's hope you don't get more threats

Seems like you definitely have a good case against Bill Saxon anyway Wes.

[WesWagner]

82. Quiet

It has been quiet lately... I think they are in bunker mode.

[Voice1]

83. Wes, any news on newspapers?

Have you heard anything on when, and if any of these papers will be printing? How many have you got interested now?

[WesWagner]

84. main interest is in texas

The Austin County Journal wants to do a straight reprint (just a 20k person county but the Leedy connection is intersting to them) and the Houston Press (500k+ paper) is intersted in it.

[Voice1]

85. Sounds like things are at least moving along

I hope that the national press (and international) does pick up on this Wes. Can you provide us with the links when they're available online?

[WesWagner]

86. Yeah I will do...

though austin county journal is small with no website.

Houston Press has an impressive web presence.

-Wes

[WesWagner]

87. Gryphon Partners

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/investing/8083/latest/80

Voice 1 found this article on Gryphon Partners - a hedge fund that Bill Saxon was involved with - much of the documentation I have from Saxon's office has Gryphon Partners on the fax stamp (as in he sent it from the fund's fax machine). I don't have any evidence that links Gryphon to the Maderas Tucan mill except Saxon's mutual participation - but that really doesn't mena anything unless it turns out that Gryphon is somehow invested in Maderas Tucan.

[Voice1]

88. Grypon link - evidence (?)

On this letter, from Evans to Saxon, Saxon's address is given as 500 Crescent Court, Suite 270, Dallas, Texas 75201.
http://www.nwmeridian.com/content/060210_01d_p01.php

Do a search on Google for "gryphon master fund""500 crescent court" and you'll see the following results:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22gryphon+master+fund%22%22500+crescent+court%22&meta=

[Voice1]

89. Gryphon - link to 911 insider trading

Blimey, what a tangled web.

Just found this from a Google search on Amr I Elgindy, mentioned in that SEC probe article:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050105/news_1b5elgindy.html

NEW YORK – A former FBI agent admitted that he gave online stock traders confidential details of federal investigations, including a probe of the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

One of the recipients was San Diego stock speculator Anthony Elgindy. A Justice Department task force had begun the investigation of Elgindy to determine whether anyone might have known of the terrorists' plans and profited by selling vulnerable stocks just before the attacks, Jeffrey Royer said.

Elgindy was not charged in connection with that probe, but an investigation into the ties between Elgindy and Royer led to charges against the two men of racketeering, securities fraud and other crimes. The two are on trial together in federal court in Brooklyn.

[WesWagner]

92. That is very interesting

Same guy ... wow.

[Voice1]

94. Certainly is

I thought it would be a good idea for this Gryphon/potential link to "911" insider trading to ahve its own thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=459327&mesg_id=459327

[WesWagner]

95. Probably a good idea

It is something to be explored independent from the Thomas case.

[Voice1]

97. Indeed

That certainly needs investigating as well, as you say, it probably should be a separate investigation.

[Voice1]

91. Anything on Sovereign Chief Ventures Wes?

Just found this from 2002 - Saxon became a director there apparently:

http://schiefv.com/s/NewsReleases.asp?printVersion=now&_Title=BILL-D.-SAXON-TO-JOIN-BOARD-OF-DIRECTORS&ReportID=36789

Mr. Saxon has been actively engaged in all phases of oil and gas exploration and production since 1954. As an independent oil operator and through Saxon Oil Company, which went public in 1980, and as operator of various drilling funds, Mr. Saxon was responsible for expenditures in excess of $200,000,000 and the successful development of oil and gas production in Texas and Oklahoma.

In 1985 the oil and gas reserves of Saxon Oil and all its drilling funds were rolled into a Master Limited Partnership, "Saxon Oil Development Partners L.P.", listed on the American Stock Exchange.

[WesWagner]

93. SIGN THE PETITION!

How can I start a new thread about the Petition???

http://www.petitiononline.com/rnt11111/petition.html

[mdmc]

102. have y'all got anywhere with this?

http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17297

[mdmc]

103. kick