For those who don't think that Bernie Sanders is helping Democrats...

[Hippo_Tron]

You are very mistaken and here is why

As we all know, Independent Senator Jim Jeffords is not seeking re-election to his senate seat in Vermont in 2006. Jeffords is best known for leaving the Republican party in 2001 and becoming an Independent who caucuses with the Democrats giving them the majority for a short time. This leaves us with an open seat that we have to defend.

Vermont is a very blue state. However, they currently have a Republican Governor named Jim Douglas. Douglas currently has a 69% approval rating according to SurveyUSA. If Douglas had decided seek the Senate seat, we would have had another senate seat that we would have had to seriously defend and possibly could have lost. I'm not saying that Douglas would have been a lock, but I am saying that we would have had to spend a lot of our resources on this race that could be used elsewhere.

Luckilly, there is one politician in Vermont that is more popular than Jim Douglas and his name is Bernie Sanders. Bernie is Vermont's US Representative at-large who caucuses with the Democrats in the House for organizational purposes and votes for Nancy Pelosi for speaker. As a US Senator Bernie will caucus with the democrats and vote for Harry Reid for majority leader.

Jim Douglas will not enter the US Senate race in 2006 because he knows that he has zero chance of beating Bernie Sanders. He might stand a chance against any Democrat in Vermont other than Pat Leahy, but against Sanders he would be squashed. So Bernie is now beating whatever weak ass Republican is running against him by some 50 points.

The bottom line is that the DSCC will not have to spend a penny on this race to keep this democratic caucus vote because Bernie has locked it up for us. Thus they can allocate their resources elsewhere which helps democratic senate candidates all over the country. This is a win-win situation for everybody.

[Laelth]

1. Who says Bernie Sanders doesn't help Democrats?

I admire him a great deal. He's a liberal and he stands with the base. What's not to like?

Is this a straw man argument, or are you referring to something in particular?

-Laelth

[Name removed]

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[ulysses]

7. seems you've done so.

:D

[Pirate Smile]

2. I really haven't seen any Dems be anything but supportive of Bernie.

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

4. Bernie is upholding the banner the Dems should be following.

For all us "mythical little guys" out here twisting in the wind.

[radio4progressives]

34. LOL! all those "Non Existant Mythical Little Guys" you mean...

that was from that fascists bastard Cornyn.

[MrBenchley]

5. So let the son of a bitch become a Democrat

And then we can have a Democratic seat.

Otherwise he can go fuck himself, as far as I'm concerned.

[Hippo_Tron]

6. Did you not understand a single word of my post?

He caucuses with the democrats. He votes for Reid for majority leader. He puts us one seat closer to being in the majority. FOR ALL CONGRESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONAL PURPOSES HE IS A DEMOCRAT.

[MrBenchley]

8. Then let the son of a bitch BECOME a Democrat

Otherwise he's no fucking help and can go fuck himself.

"He puts us one seat closer to being in the majority."
Not even close to true.

[Hippo_Tron]

11. YES IT IS TRUE

I will give you an example of why it is true.

In 2001 the Republicans controlled the US Senate 50/50 with Vice President Dick Cheney breaking the tie for the Republicans.

THEN, Republican Senator Jim Jeffords switched his party affiliation to Independent and voted for Tom Daschle for Majority Leader and for the Democrats to control the Senate. Although we did not officially have 51 Democratic Senators, we had 51 votes to let the Democrats control the senate and that is what matters.

[MrBenchley]

16. Not even close to true....

"THEN, Senator Jim Jeffords switched his party affiliation to Independent"
From Republican....which left the Republicans with just 49 seats and the Democrats with 50. Jeffords didn't get added to the Democrats' total.

[ulysses]

21. and independents who vote with Democrats SUCK ASS!

See, Hippo? It's easy!

[MrBenchley]

23. If you say so....

[ulysses]

26. that isn't your point?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

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[Hippo_Tron]

44. No, but the Senate has to vote on its rules and organization

And all Senators get to vote on the rules and organization which includes the resolution that designates the chairmen of the committees. All senators get to vote on these resolutions and Jeffords was allied in the democratic column. In reality the resolution is passed by a unanimous consent voice vote but the negotiation is done behind closed doors and it was done with the understanding the the democrats would recieve committee chairmanships BECAUSE they had 51 votes to organize the senate under their control.

[MrBenchley]

46. So when Jeffords went independent, the GOP fell to 49

just as I said.

[Name removed]

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[Armstead]

42. Why?

He's he's happy, Vermonters are happy and Democrats don't seem to mind.

[ulysses]

9. see, you have to understand

that Benchley is renovating the "big tent". :D

[Hippo_Tron]

12. lol n/t

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[checks-n-balances]

15. He's more of a Democrat than a certain Nelson or Lieberman

I love Bernie & love his Friday segments with Thom Hartmann!

[MrBenchley]

18. Then let him actually become a Democrat

Otherwise he can go fuck himself.

[Armstead]

40. WhY?

He's happy, Vermonters are happy, Democrats don't seem to mind.....

[sandnsea]

10. Oh chill

Getting in a snit over Bernie Sanders is as stupid as getting in a snit over Ben Nelson. It is what it is. Go spend your energies on something important, like beating Burns or Talent or a host of races that really matter. sheesh.

[MrBenchley]

14. And that's why I started this thread....

Oh, wait.....

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

22. Ask me next how much I care what you think....

"I wonder what posters who consistently come off as sneering assholes think they are accomplishing for the side they purport to represent?"
You'd have to answer that for yourself, highplains.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

25. So why isn't Bernie a Democrat, do you suppose?

And why is it we never have the Kool Kidz here urging him to become one?

[Laelth]

28. I don't know.

I suppose we could ask him. He'd probably reply. He does vote with us, though. Way better than a Repuke.

The Honorable Bernie Sanders
2233 Rayburn H.O.B.
Washington DC 20515
Phone - 202-225-4115
Fax - 202-225-6790
http://bernie.house.gov/const_serv/comments.asp

Would you care to ask him?

-Laelth

[MrBenchley]

29. I've asked several times, with no response....

His own party, the Vermont Progressive Party, melted down long ago....

[Name removed]

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[Laelth]

41. Can't prove anything, of course.

But coming from the South, I've seen my share of yellow dog Democrats, and from what I can tell, that's exactly what MrBenchley is. True blue, and he don't take no crap.

Comes across as rather rough around the edges, of course. We are the party of unions and labor, after all. Some of this is to be expected. Fighting for the union is a fight for your life.

Besides, it's in my nature to give people the benefit of the doubt.

:toast:

-Laelth

[MrBenchley]

47. You'll notice that party loyalty is a dirty word to some

Who seem to live only to bash Democrats and scream for party purges.

[CTLawGuy]

50. there are places you can go to find party loyalty

Cuba, China, Nazi Germany. Lots of party loyalty, of the blind and irrational variety, just like you exhibit here.

Course there is the minor detail that they don't have FREEDOM there.


But seriously, party loyalty is fine, but you are taking it to an irrational level. Bernie has been a partner in our House caucus and will continue to be a partner in the Senate caucus despite your irrational emphasis on labels.

[MrBenchley]

51. You sure don't see any among our "progressive purists"

When they're not spouting hatred against Democrats, they're pimping for the third parties.

[CTLawGuy]

55. you have to realize that

the promotion of a political party is NOT AN END IN ITSELF. That's where your problem is. The point of being a Democrat is that the Democratic Party represents me in government.

I am not a Democrat for the sake of being a Democrat, I am a Democrat because that party believes what I believe.

If I had lived in 1860, I would have been a Republican, as I would have been (and am) very appalled by the tolerance of slavery. I would have advocated for a strong Reconstruction in the south, becuase I believe freed slaves needed support from the nation.

If I had lived in 1789 I would have been an anti-federalist or "democratic republican" because I believe in a limited central government and in the protection of our liberty. I would have been one of the ones fighting for the inclusion of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution.

Our government is suposed to be representative. The leaders there are supposed to represent me and us. So I will fight for the election of who best represents me. That is not Joe Lieberman, but it is Bernie Sanders. The centrists have the same rights to advocate for who represents them, Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu etc.

If, as you suggest, I must put party loyalty over representation, then the party will cease to have meaning and then it will not function as a means to represent its members such as me. Surely, I would not vote for Hitler if he were a Democrat, just as I would not have voted for Sen. Jeff Sessions in 1992(he was a D, now R), or Ben Nighthorse Campbell (was D, now Fmr. R. Senator).

or Strom Thurmond if he had won the presidential nomination in 1948 (as a Democrat!)

or Zell Miller, who is now a Republican in all-but-name,

or most white southern dems in the 1960's. (they were all dems back then down there)

and why should I vote or have voted for any of these people?

Bernie represents me. He will continue his tradition of working with the Dem Caucus, just as he did in the House and Jeffords did in the Senate.

[MrBenchley]

56. Geeze, if you don't want to support a Democrat, feel free....

But it's hypocritical to clog up a Democratic message board titled Democratic Underground to piss on Democrats and pimp for third parties.

One wonders why people who hate Democrats and compare them to Hitler would want to stay here....and then the answer becomes obvious.

[CTLawGuy]

59. you didn't read my post did you?

I don't compare dems to Hitler.

I am here becuase I am a Democrat, but it doesn't mean I unquestionably support every single person who calls him or herself a Democrat.

[Solon]

53. He doesn't sound like any Southern or Mid-West Democrat I ever heard of...

First, he's RABIDLY anti-gun, a VERY unpopular position in the south, hell, he's more anti-gun than I am, and that's saying a lot. Second, I have yet to here anything about support for either Unions or Labor from him, he'd have to point me to a post about that.

[MrBenchley]

62. LOL!!

Guess that's the only way to show how "progressive" it is to be a Bernie Sanders supporter....a cheap-ass attempt at switft-boating.

[cali]

27. You again.

Are you a Vermonter? No? Then it's none of your fucking business if we Vermonters choose bernie to represent us, is it? You'll just have to fume. You don't have a vote on this.

[MrBenchley]

30. So let the son of a bitch become a Democrat

[ulysses]

31. care to offer a compelling reason why he should?

:shrug:

[cali]

35. It's pretty clear he can't do anything

but repeat himself.

[ulysses]

37. heh.

True.

[MrBenchley]

45. Because otherwise he's no fucking help, for one

[Pirate Smile]

39. As long as he votes and caucuses like Jeffords has the last couple of

years, it is fine with me.

[Radical Activist]

17. Sanders is the best hope of the Democratic Party

He might show some Democrats what real leadership is like when you stop worrying about being labeled a liberal, stop catering to corporate special interests, and stop talking to the public like they're stupid. I hope the party learns from his example.

[Rowdyboy]

19. In the race to replace himself in congress, Bernie has endorsed the Dem

and urged a progressive party member to leave the race for fear of giving the seat to Republicans. they have a very strong candidate in Gen Martha Rainville.

"Sanders has openly called on Zuckerman to abandon his bid for Congress, and has already endorsed State Sen. Peter Welch, a Democrat, in his congressional bid. Zuckerman has yet to heed Sanders’ call.

“I do not want to see that seat go to a Republican who will support the current leadership,” Sanders said."

He's also backing a Democrat for governor.

"Sanders said he is supportive of Democratic gubernatorial candidate Scudder Parker, and does intend to support Progressives running for state legislative posts, as well as several progressive-leaning Democrats. Beyond that, he said, he’ll be focusing on his own campaign. “I’ll have my work cut out for me running my campaign for Senate,” he said."

I welcome him as an ally just as I welcome the current independent senator from Vermont he hopes to replace, Jim Jeffords.

I wish he had a "D" after his name but I'll happily take his experience, leadership, and vote in a heartbeat.

[cali]

24. Great Post, just a couple of corrections

I don't know when the Survey USA was taken but I don't think Douglas is quite that popular. He's been getting dinged lately. Although Bernie is way ahead and Tarrent has some real problems, he also has real money. 200 million +, and he's willing to heavily self-finance. He's already given his campaign 2 million bucks and he's running regular campaign ads. If that doesn't sound like a lot, remember this is a state with well less than a million inhabitants and it's 10 months out from the election. Bernie's still going to need to raise a lot of money, and though I think he can make mincemeat out of richie rich tarrent, he can't take him anything for granted.

Let me also mention that Bernie's House seat is going to be competetive. We've got a great, but not terribly exciting dem candidate, Peter Welch. He'll be running against Adjutant General Martha Rainville, who will simultaneously anounce her candidacy and resign her post, tomorrow. If Dave Zuckerman, Progressive State Senator, who's thinking of running, gets in, we've got real problems here in oh so blue VT.

[Robeson]

43. I love Sanders. Can't wait til' he gets in the Senate!....

...:thumbsup:

[tsuki]

48. Bernie Sanders is one of the candidates that I made a

contribution to. He is running on his own against a $$$$Republican. The RNC is spending a lot of money to defeat him.

Given the choice between a "Tax Cut for Me Republican" and Bernie Sanders, I think we need to back Bernie.

[LynneSin]

49. What idiot would think that Bernie Sanders hurts the democrat

seriously - speak up now so I can call you an idiot.

Bernie has always sided with the democrats when it comes to leadership and Bernie insures that we keep that seat safe for a liberal/progressive even if the person isn't a democrat. I mean, does anyone think Bernie wants republicans running the senate?

[Solon]

54. He's here. n/t

[MrBenchley]

57. I didn't say he hurt...but he isn't much help

Why isn't there any push to get him to be a Democrat, if he's all that?

[mdmc]

58. love your sig

:kick: to the head.

[The Magistrate]

63. Locking

Flame-bait, leading to a flame-war that largely consists of calling out forum member. That is against the rules.