I said moderate Republicans would be coming to our side...and they are.

[madfloridian]

I have a deep fear that we are not going to understand it or know how to handle it. I have said that there was an excellent chance of people in the Republican party who care about their country joining with Democrats who care about their country also.

This happened in Florida in the 90s in the other direction. Our Democrats then started becoming Republicans to run because they could not win the other way. They also then believed in what they were doing, at least most of them. Some were sincere, some were not.

I know that I have been made to feel uncomfortable with the lack of any kind words for Democrats lately among progressives...not all, but many. I am one, I want change, I am a liberal at heart. But I have gotten defensive and gone back toward the middle because no one meets the standard of perfection being set.

Here is a Republican who is running as Democrat. He is blogging tonight at Booman Tribune. He is ex-CIA, and a Republican. He is a good man who cares about his party. I don't know his stance on issues yet, as the forum is bogging down with all the posts tonight. Here is a picture of him with Larry Johnson at the Plame leak hearings. He was very powerful then, and I think I would welcome him to our party.


Jim Marcinkowski, left, and Larry Johnson

Here is a CNN article
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/24/cnna.leak/

And here is an article of one of his appearances.
http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=34038

I see Chuck Hagel condemned here a lot. I know he put out the word that he might run as an Independent...he was getting a feel. It is going to be happening.

If I seem so bad to so many here (and please don't tell me it is my imagination or that I am paranoid), what are some going to do when things like this happen?

Several former intelligence officers post at Booman Tribune as diarists quite often. I have learned to respect what they say. I am quite sure there are things they don't agree with me on. But I think they are fine people.

Just throwing this out.

[jaysunb]

1. Run For Office !!

:rofl: :hi:

[iconocrastic]

38. I'd be happy if moderate Democrats came to our side. n/t

[Warpy]

2. They're deserting Stupid, not coming to our side. Big difference.

Trust me, those guys will never, ever vote for anything remotely liberal, let alone progressive. They are old Goldwater conservatives who only sound moderate because the guys in charge of their party have gone completely off the deep end with all the religious bullshit.

The few moderates left may join with Democrats in ousting this bunch should the Dems take the House in 2006 and simultaneously all grow backbones. However, I'm not betting the rent on any of those 3 things happening at this point. That would be the beginning and the end of their "support" for Democrats in Congress, though.

Getting moderate pubbies to cross party lines is a pipe dream of the DLC. No matter how far to the right the DLC tries to drag the party, it's just not going to happen.

[madfloridian]

3. I am asking you how you will handle it? And I am not stupid.

He is a good man. Many Republicans are good people.

I had a feeling the response would be like this.

[Nickster]

5. Ignore the childishness. I guess I don't understand your question.

What's to handle? I'd be glad if we used them to get our majority back, but I have to say I wouldn't be fooled that they were doing anything other than saving their own hides politically. Moderate Republicans have really given up their place of respect in my heart by standing aside while all this madness is going on.

[madfloridian]

21. This is the way I can explain it.

I am speaking a lot of how things like that would play out at this board. That is not all of my question, but a good part.

There has been a long line of things that a Democrat must meet to be considered worthy. Some are good things, some should be left up to individuals.

The list changes as Democrats speak out, another issue is added, or one brought back. Things like getting out of Iraq NOW, no exceptions allowed. Things like supporting every word an antiwar activist says, even if we feel some are not needed. Or supporting Chavez, even though one is not against him at all, and appreciates him...there must be actual support. Or like the fact that some are demanding that the word impeachment must be used right now.

Hard to explain any further. More of trying to figure how things will be here as the year goes on.

[pacalo]

10. I think Marcinkowski's a good man, too.

(Btw, Warpy wasn't referring to you as "stupid" -- it was a reference to the boy king. :) )

[July]

35. I think "stupid" is a reference to Bush.

Warpy is saying, "They're deserting Stupid (Bush)," not, "They're deserting, stupid," which would have the entirely different meaning that Warpy is addressing you as "stupid." But check with Warpy.

[Jane Austin]

4. Personally, I can work with anybody who is rational, honest and puts our

country first - - ahead of the Republican party.

We have several friends who were Republicans who fall into this catagory and cannot stand bush and what he's done to our country.

[DavidMS]

8. There will be some crossover

But that will come from conversion and won't be overnight. A small number of repubs will probably desert their party if it continues to drift right. However by no strech of the immagination will most of them be progressives. They will be relitively conservative (pro-bussness) most likely. Still having them on board for protecting basic rights (abortion) will be nice.

This is of cource baring a realignment.

[w13rd0]

12. They will be relatively conservative (pro-business)...

...ok, so tell me how most of our elected Democratic officials AREN'T pro-business? The vast majority of them are. With moderates (on either side of the aisle), it's a pretty thin line, defined mostly by who they are most comfortable with, or in which party they'll find the power to advance their agenda. Lieberman for instance, seems pretty damn comfortable working with Republicans and accepting their support. If the Democrats do regain Congress, I anticipate we'll see quite a few moderate Republicans suddenly see the light, and we'll see a few along the way as they guage which way the wind blows.

But insofar as this all goes, I'm more than willing to accept the support and efforts of anyone that's working to block any of the more vile Bushtonian measures. Be in environmental, security-related, privacy-related, whatever... I don't expect elected officials to agree with me on everything, or even most things, I just want to help push them in the correct direction.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. I agree

My grandmother on my dad's side used to support Bush all the way up to the Katrina mess. Than the weekend before Thanksgiving my family and I were visiting with her and she stated how she no longer trust's Bush and even doubts his faith. I was really surprised. Her reasoning was because of all of his lying. :shrug: She only has basic cable and no internet so I don't know how she knew he was lying. She was even questioning whether or not he was a true Christian. There are people out there like that. Only thing to do is to just educate them and answer their question's.

[seabeyond]

34. you have tons too, lol lol n/t

[Doctor_J]

9. We had enough deserters in 04 but e-voting did us in

there were thousands of disaffected Repubs who publicly disavowed * and his minions (a la Kevin Phillips). Meanwhile NO Gore voters came out for *. And you are right, if any pubs were going to come over, Chaffee would've done it already. There is no way any of the paleos will come over.

[Inland]

11. Not at election time.

As long as the vote is right, it doesn't matter if they sign off on the platform or not. If they aren't convinced on the issues and vote, it's not just half a loaf. That's how Bush still runs the country with having dismal approval ratings. They won.

[madfloridian]

14. So you see this as the DLC pulling the party to the right?

I don't see it that way right now.

[mitchum]

16. With all due respect, I don't know how anyone could see it...

any other way

[madfloridian]

20. I see it another way.

I don't see it as the DLC doing this, I see it as a Republican who served in the intelligence area doing something about the way that community has been misused. It may be the only way he sees.

[mitchum]

15. Absolutely, Warpy!

[Doctor_J]

6. Hagel will NOT run as an indy

get real.

[madfloridian]

13. There have been many mentions of this....

and please don't use the terms "get real" with me. I am trying to be real.

[msongs]

7. republicans cannot run as democrats - something they are not

let him quit his party and renounce it first. then maybe dems should vote for him

better yet let him sign an oath he will resign before becoming a republican again

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[IndianaGreen]

17. If you embrace Right-to-Life, militarism, and GAWD

you will get even more "moderate" Republicans to join you.

How many progressives will you lose in that process, only time will tell!

[madfloridian]

22. And what would your solution be, considering the dire circumstances

our country is in.

And if you are contemptuous of "moderate Republicans", then you would simply hate a lot of my family and my friends.

Hell, you are contemptuous of me for being a "moderate Democrat."

[IndianaGreen]

26. I want people that will impeach Bush for his law breaking

Repukes, even repentant ones, won't do that anymore than weenie Democrats would.

[madfloridian]

28. "weenie Democrats"

Ok.

[mitchum]

23. But...but...but...it's very wise to treat a venomous snakebite...

with a diluted antidote!
I don't really need the sarcasm tag, do I?

[tsuki]

18. I would very much welcome McCloskey if he wins Pombo's

seat. I remember McCloskey from the 60s. A thinker.

BTW, he encouraged true Republicans to vote for Kerry/Edwards.

[Lexingtonian]

19. yep

I said moderate Republicans would be coming to our side...and they are.

You're not the only one, fortunately. And to look at what John Kerry did (and is doing) and now Hillary Clinton, and of course Howard Dean, it, well...breakup of the Republican coalition formed under Nixon has been anticipated a bit more widely. Polling trend analysis says their whole moderate wing will largely split away, or at least be grossly disillusioned into partisan passivity, during the next six to eight months. (The Pubbies are going frantic about the signs of this internally, btw.)

(....) I know that I have been made to feel uncomfortable with the lack of any kind words for Democrats lately among progressives...not all, but many. I am one, I want change, I am a liberal at heart. But I have gotten defensive and gone back toward the middle because no one meets the standard of perfection being set.

I haven't followed you posts all that carefully, but my impression is that you're becoming more small 'l' liberal and less capital 'L' Left.

Here is a Republican who is running as Democrat. He is blogging tonight at Booman Tribune. He is ex-CIA, and a Republican. He is a good man who cares about his party. I don't know his stance on issues yet, as the forum is bogging down with all the posts tonight. Here is a picture of him with Larry Johnson at the Plame leak hearings. He was very powerful then, and I think I would welcome him to our party.

If he intends to serve well and wisely, we could do worse. And if he happens to take out Mike Rogers (iirc) on Election Day, I'm fine with him calling himself whatever he likes and behaving any way he likes.

I see Chuck Hagel condemned here a lot. I know he put out the word that he might run as an Independent...he was getting a feel. It is going to be happening.

If we can live with Ben Nelson, we can live with Chuck Hagel doing essentially the same stuff politically.

If I seem so bad to so many here (and please don't tell me it is my imagination or that I am paranoid), what are some going to do when things like this happen?

Well, there are many veterans and casualties of the fight against hardline Right Republicanism here at DU, people who have spent much of the best years of their lives fighting in the trenches for what they believed right and true against bad odds. I'm not sure you should take their particular claims so literally, but they do have a moral claim to their agreement- insistence on the war being won- being of particular weight among us. Defectors are very desirable in our present situation, crucial even, but we shouldn't forget: they did spend a lot years of this fight in greater safety, on the easier and dominant side.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. I remember reading a good bit ago

that when Bush and the neocons came to DC a lot of traditional republicans didn't like their ways and policies so they changed to the democratic party. They still believe in their traditional republican policies but they just felt uncomfortable in the new republican party. I think it's fine with me if they want to help so we can do whatever we can to work together to take our country back.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Chuck Hagel as an independent???

Do you have a link about this or something? I haven't heard that one!

[madfloridian]

29. He has become a Democrat. He sounds a lot like one, I think.

Here is his website. I like this statement, and I think we will be hearing more like this.

"As many of you may know, I used to be a Republican. It was on the campus of Michigan State more than 25 years ago that I first became active in politics, running Ronald Reagan’s campaign for president. I, like many people trying to provide for children and make ends meet, didn’t pay that close attention to politics. But when I did look back over the past twenty some years, I realized that the Republican party had become something I could no longer relate to, that it had left me. But more importantly, I realized that it had left the fundamental ideals and principles that made this nation great."

http://www.marcinkowskiforcongress.com/speech.asp

With Republicans now in control of the entire federal government we, as middle-class, middle-Americans, are in trouble. The Republican-controlled Congress has become nothing more than a rubber-stamp for the many misguided policies of the White House, a White House where any dissent is suppressed; any criticism, crushed; the public media is bought; where any debate, questions or criticisms are portrayed as being un-American or unpatriotic; and where adherence to the law and our Constitution has become relative. They are ignoring the rising costs of health care, sending hundreds of thousands of jobs overseas, placing pensions in jeopardy, damaging our international relationships and placing our long term financial future in doubt.

Both presidents, John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, spoke of the United States as being a “city on a hill”, an example for all nations and all peoples of the world.

And now, as we look around, as the entire world looks at this great nation for leadership and for partnership, what has become of that grave trust, of that responsibility?"

I am not sure if any can see where I am going with this. I almost did not post his quote. How many times have we heard these words here at DU? That our party has left us.

I feel like PART of my party, the part which was not really Democrat to begin with....has left me. I feel like most are good men and work for the change we need. I am a moderate Democrat who is starting not to feel welcome here at times. I asked this question because it will be happening more.

[welshTerrier2]

30. Marcinkowski testified about Plame

he was invited as a witness before Waxman, Conyers and other Democrats ... here's a link to my write-up:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1951653

[madfloridian]

31. Blog still slow, post a few of his answers....Oops responded to wrong post

I had heard he convicted Kevorkian, and his answer was interesting...His views on abortion and right to life are better than some of our Southern Democrats.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Answer: The right-to-die and abortion need less government intervention and more medical-patient control. The Schiavo case was a national disgrace.
I did convict Kevorkian - for assault/fighting with police officers.
Jim Marcinkowski

Q:Looks like we are keeping you busy! I'd like to ask about your take on the president sneaking in all of his Social Security "reform" package into this years budget. What do you make of that??

Answer:Re: Please Meet Jim Marcinkowski
I see a pattern. Whether its healthcare (accounts) or social security, they are hell bent on getting everyone to make individual payroll deductions ("donations") to Wall Street.
The fact that such items have to be snuck into the budget raises another major concern. There is not a lot of debate going on in the Congress right now, a fact I find very dangerous. That's why there needs to be a change. The only opposition comes from public outrage, witness the "bridge to nowhere", etc.

Jim Marcinkowski

Q: Jim, why do you think so few of our representatives on either side of the aisle are willing to stand up and put a stop to the criminal behavior of this administration?


Answer: "Intimidation. We can discuss losing chairmanships of committees, a turn-off of the K-Street funding machine, opposition in the next election, etc. I think the list is quite long and the job too comfortable.
Jim Marcinkowski"

Answer: "When we retake the Congress, there must be a restoration of bi-partisanship. To me that means an advocacy system much like a court system. Let both sides make their argument. It serves to balance the "checks and balances" inherent in our system of government. It would also serves as a check on extremism from any one side.
We obviously need a significant (and open) national debate on ethics and the funding of campaigns.

If "write" means "as written" then absolutely not".
Jim Marcinkowski

And his views on national health care:
A "National Health Care" system scares most people, but I believe that one way or another we are headed in that direction. Many are coming to the realization that the costs are simply too high, be they the Board at G.M. or the small business person. Most importantly, once the middle class worker comes to fully realize that they will be paying more for their own health insurance and they are also paying, through taxes, for Medicare and Medicaid, they will realize we are almost there now. As for the uninsured, if we make sure we don't turn the entire system over to Wallstreet, there will be significant savings from government administration to assist in extending health care to all/uninsured.
Jim Marcinkowski

[mdmc]

32. Most GOP, greens are good people, trying to the right thing

I live in a very conservative area (actually, I live in a blue city, in a red county, in a blue state ... so it is not red, red red...) and work with many good GOP members. Sometimes the only difference between the GOP and Dems is that the GOP thinks that Bush is doing okay, and that Kerry could not do any better.

If your OP is "how do you feel about the GOP steping back from the Bush kool-aid" , then I feel fine with it. I only wish more Dems would stop sipping the kool-aid.

Peace and low stress!

[seabeyond]

33. lookin to give people hearts. of course you have zillions

saw your name and jumped on it. right there with you dude/dudette

[paulk]

36. this is great!

everyday I try to work on the more moderate Republicans I know - I try to talk them into voting for Democrats.

These are good people, perhaps only misguided, and the Republican Party - as Marcinkowski says - no longer stands for what they believe in.

Of course these people won't meet the immpossibly high standards of the majority of posters on DU - so what? DU isn't the real world. And remember - there are more than a few posters here who mean just as much harm to the Democratic party as the RNC does.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

37. But what if those "moderate" Republicans...

rushing to our party are anti gay rights, anti full choice, anti strong environmental protections, anti sepeeration of church and state, anti health care for all? What if enough of them join or align with the Democratic Party and the DLC "democrats" -- suddenly, we have a party that no longer resembles the Democratic Party, but the moderate Republican Party!!

Personally, I would just as soon the Democrats align with the Greens and seek their support.

[Debs]

39. I think that answer to this question

Can be found in the literal meaning of the term ad hoc. To this. In other words work with them on issues we find common ground and ignore the rest. It is dangerous to lean on a sharp stick. Its not that I dont trust republicans at all, there is good reason for sane republicans to jump this ship but unless they are on our side on the issues of protection of priveledge and protecting the weak from predation by power, they are not long term useful