Could we put the focus on Hackett/Brown where it belongs?

[DancingBear]

1) Fait accompli - Having party insiders decide who runs/who doesn't stinks. Doesn't it?

2) Honesty - Giving your word to a candidate, then taking it back when a prettier girl asks you to the dance, stinks. Or is this "just politics?" If so, is that what we want? I thought the people who engage in that type of behavior were called "Republicans."

3) Electability - Why is there virtually no mention of the fact that Sherrod Brown is going to find it next to impossible to pull votes out of southern Ohio, when Hackett has proven he could do it (literally) in the lions den?

4) Party direction - Do we want, as Schumer has stated, to eliminate primaries (under the false premise that we don't want bloodied candidates), or do we instead want to use this vetting process to find out all we can about the people we choose to try and elect?

My .02, that's all.

[Greyhound]

1. Short answer - no. The Party Uber Alles! Positions, integrity,

honesty, ethics, honor, all meaningless. :eyes:

[Cocoa]

2. you forgot 5)Brown's record

as I see it, this is #1, but you must agree it at least belongs as part of the discussion. If not, why not?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2460797&mesg_id=2460870

2006 In 2006 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 In 2005 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Council on American-Islamic Relations 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (WRMEA) 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Peace Action 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 84 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 96 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Council of La Raza 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 77 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 90 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Education Association 89 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Postal Workers Union 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 88 percent of the time.

2004 On the votes that the Service Employees International Union considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Communications Workers of America 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers considered to be the most important in 2003-2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 94 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 In 2004 National Organization for Women endorsed Representative Brown.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

[DancingBear]

5. Oops, here we go

:)

I'm going to post, as an answer, a post I was going to put up on its own, but didn't. Here we go:


***********************************

Sherrod Brown, from a liberal/progressive standpoint, is everything I could want in a candidate.

His ACLU ratings, NOW ratings, stances on the Iraq "war", CAFTA, Patriot Act - perfect.

He is, it seems, a perfect progressive Congressperson. I wonder if there could be anyone else like him in Congress with that type of voting record. Maybe even someone from Ohio. Maybe even someone from northern Ohio...

I'll be damned - I found one!

Dennis Kucinich. A no-bullshit progressive if there ever was one. Representing his district as honestly as any person can. May he live to be a thousand, and father many children.

Now, just suppose that tomorrow Dennis decided to run for the Senate, and off Dennis went to southern Ohio, which for anyone who doesn't know is a land unto itself. Any Ohio DU folks who live there can attest to this.

How do you think Dennis would do?

If ANYONE on this board thinks that Dennis Kucinich could win a state-wide seat in Ohio then get thee to my house tomorrow and buyest my bridge.

So, taking the progressive component out of the equation (since the fact that Sherrod Brown is "one of us" goes without saying), please explain to all of here how Dennis/Sherrod can win. Explain how his Iraq war stance has any authenticity, and how he can convince the guy laying carpet (who voted for Hackett because "god damn it it's about time somebody told us first-hand what is really happening there") that a man who has never been there is better than a man who has. If you know southern Ohio, that is a VERY tough sell.

Now, take a no-bullshit Iraq war vet who has seen the lies first-hand and stick him in southern Ohio - well, well, well....

[Cocoa]

7. I voted for Dennis in the 2004 presidential primaries

I'm voting for Feingold in 2008, another guy who people say "can't" win.

Obviously, I don't put much stock in arguments that people "can't" win.

[DancingBear]

11. That is good, but I am speaking about Ohio here

Hopefully a southern Ohio DU'er will chime in here.

The problem is Brown MUST convince people in the south to vote for him. I don't think he can.

It's not really a matter of "I'll vote for the best candidate, damn the torpedoes." That's a GOOD thing. I am just afraid it will not happen in Ohio. I still am convinced that if Hackett were running those concerns would be mute.

Brown must overcome a HUGE negative perception of him (in southern Ohio) that will be hand-crafted by the GOP. Hackett was wearing the antidote in this case - it's called "ex-military."

I'm not saying I like that, I'm just saying that is/was the key to unlock southern Ohio.

[Cocoa]

12. well, he DOES think he can win

and so does the dem establishment.

I happen to think that's a good thing. Don't you?

It's so weird to me the grassroots is so much more afraid of the GOP than the establishment is.

[DancingBear]

13. Yes, I'm all for enthusiasm

As for the GOP, it has nothing to do with being afraid. It has EVERYTHING to do with knowing what will work to their advantage.

A while back, during the '04 elections, there was a "Dem strategist" who posted here for a while - you probably remember. During the swift boat fiasco, I remember him saying "they're playing checkers while we're playing chess."

That guy was part of the Dem establishment. :)

The way I feel right now if Chuck Schumer told me tomorrow was going to be warm and sunny I'd go out and buy snow shoes.

[Greyhound]

17. Could it be that the 'establishment' isn't afraid because what they're

doing won't affect them? They don't live in our world, hell they only acknowledge its existence every 2, 4, or 6 years, when they want to keep their jobs. Also, they don't suffer any consequences when they're wrong, as happens so very, very, often.

[wakeme2008]

9. You forgot the BIGGEST one

was so low that he was going to SWIFTBOAT A VET for his power grab.

[Cocoa]

10. I DEMAND a link

you make a vicious claim like that, prove it.

This crap has GOT to end.

:mad:

[MuseRider]

3. Number 2

is what I thought from the onset of this mess. Isn't that how the Republicans run things? Look how well that is working. Maybe it wins elections but it sure as hell corrupts the system. So I would ask, what is the point for us "little people"?

[Mass]

4. So is it about Brown or about how it happened?

I dont know Ohio and I would certainly not try to say whether your point 3/ is right or not, but I find totally funny that those who are saying that the Democratic Leadership should let the primary happen (and I happen to agree with them on that) are often the same ones who said exactly the opposite a few months ago when Brown decided to run.

At this point, many Hackett supporters were calling on the Democratic Leadership to pressure Brown to withdraw. So, there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy.

[DancingBear]

6. I truly can not answer that one

I didn't see it here, but if it happened it is just as wrong as what is happening now.

I'll guess here that pepole were upset that they thought Brown did the "no I won't, yes I will" dance. As for me, I tend to like the whole "my word is my bond" thing, so that will probably tell you where I would have come down. :)

[rucky]

8. Primary fights cause minimal lasting damage within the party

it's usually quickly forgiven and forgotten. I don't know why Shumer, etc feels threatened by the process - but he has caused some lasting (anti-voter) damage by saying so.

[ellenfl]

14. ya know, i don't even know what brown looks like.

if he's so great, how come i haven't heard of him bucking the administration these last 5 years? i have no idea where he stands on patriot act, iraq, alito or the filibuster. does he go along to get along? i truly don't know his bona fides. i DO know paul hackett's but i don't live in ohio.

ellen fl

[DancingBear]

15. He is as progressive as they come

I have no quarrels with Brown the man, or Brown the politician.

[MrBenchley]

16. Anywhere but on the truth, eh?

Hackett QUIT, and wants to blame everyone else for his failure.