Buy Your Gas at Citgo: Join the BUY-cott!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

Dear Patrick,




Want an easy way to help America's poor stay warm this winter? Buy Citgo gasoline.

Find a station near you.




Of the top oil producing countries in the world, only one is a democracy with a president who was elected on a platform of using his nation's oil revenue to benefit the poor.1 The money you pay to Citgo goes primarily to Venezuela - not Saudi Arabia or the Middle East.

"Citgo is not just another oil company," says Citgo CEO Felix Rodriguez. "With Venezuela's state oil company, of which we are a subsidiary, we share a broad social mission." So buy Citgo gasoline and support democracy in South America:

Find the Citgo station closest to your home address.

And this winter Citgo is helping out less fortunate Americans, too.

You already may have seen the headlines about how Citgo, unlike every other oil company in the U.S., is making cut-rate heating oil available to struggling families in the Northeast. The Energy Department predicts a nearly 26 percent jump in heating costs this winter compared with last year,2 and despite a year of record oil company profits, the country's heating oil assistance fund is falling behind.3

Citgo has stepped in to help out. They're selling heating oil at discounted rates to poorer communities in Massachusetts and the Bronx, NY, and working on deals to keep low-income homes in Rhode Island and Vermont warm, too.

So while you're out on the road this month, you can help some fellow Americans by filling your tank with Venezuelan gas. Here's a link to find the nearest one of the 14,000 Citgo gas stations in the U.S.:

Find the Citgo station closest to your home address.

Naturally, if you can get where you're going without a car, do so. And we'll continue to work for a country with more renewable energy options. But in the meantime, help your Northeast neighbors by supporting Citgo when you drive.

Find the Citgo station closest to your home address:

http://www.truemajorityaction.org/find_station.php


Thanks for all that you do,

Matt Holland
TrueMajorityACTION

[niallmac]

1. Done and it wasn't easy.

The Citgo gas stations around here seem all associated with stop and go marts which do not display a very obvious CITGO sign at all. It's just a matter of habit where we buy our gas so now it is CITGO.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. BY VICE-PRESIDENTIAL DECREE: RUPUKE SEASON IS OFFICIALLY OPEN

Stock up on ammo before other hunters bag all the really BIG game! All you have to do is give a tiny donation and Saint John goes out and blows the repuke dragon to hell... Here's the store address:

KERRY'S SPORTING GOODS

https://contribute.keepingamericaspromise.com/form.html?sc=8007

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

2. Already doing it!

Anyhow, my SportTrac seems to like it better B-)

Seems like Sam's/Mar-Wart gas is watered down. I also have problems starting my truck with Shell or Exxon.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

10. what i like best is that it totally screws Bushco

let's see the math goes:

0+0=0 for BUSHCO... HEY, ZERO FOR BUSHCO! It rhymes!!

[Imalittleteapot]

3. Got a tank of Citgo today.

The only gas I buy.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

20. how much is gas in your state teapot?

It's $2.19 a gallon here.

[benny05]

4. I got one of these messages too

Where does the Canadian crude get distributed? They are our number 1 supplier and neighbor.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

25. here's where our closest global neighbor lives Bushco owns Canadian oil

CITGO Petroleum Corporation is distributing heating oil at discounted prices this winter as part of an initiative aimed at helping poor communities in areas of the country most affected by cold winters.

The initial program was launched in communities in the Boston area and in the Bronx, in New York City.

The first phase of the program, in Boston, will offer up to 12 million gallons of heating oil with discounts from market prices. The value of these discounts is nearly $10 million at current market prices. This initiative has been made possible with the full support of CITGO's parent company, Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA), the state oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

In New York, CITGO is providing up to 8 million gallons of discounted heating oil, which will mean savings in the millions of dollars.

In Maine, CITGO will provide 8 million gallons of heating oil at 40 percent discount to low -income families. This aid is also assisting homeless shelters and four Native American Tribes.

In Rhode Island, CITGO will provide 3.3 million gallons of discounted home heating oil to low-income families, homeless shelters and community clinics.

In Pennsylvania, CITGO is providing 5 million gallons of heating oil at 40 percent discount that will benefit as many as 25,000 low-income families in the Philadelphia region.
The contact for Pennsylvania is also Citizens Energy Corporation at 877-563-4645.

In Vermont, CITGO is providing 2.4 million gallons of Venezuelan oil to low-income Vermonters at a 40 percent discount, with an additional 108,000 gallons going to homeless shelters for free.

"With this initiative, CITGO is showing its commitment to the U.S. marketplace and to communities where we have a presence," said CITGO President and CEO Félix Rodríguez. "As good corporate citizens, we are making an effort to help those in need."
How to participate

If you would like more information about CITGO's low-cost heating oil programs, please contact one of the non-profit organizations listed below for your area:

Boston: contact Citizens Energy Corporation at 877-563-4645 or the Massachusetts Energy Consumer's Alliance at 617-524-3950.

The Bronx: To become a beneficiary, please email your name, telephone number and request to: [e-mail] You will be contacted by a representative of the program.

[benny05]

26. In all respect

This doesn't answer my question. I don't think your post has proven if Bush and his ilk control Canadian oil. I do agree Citgo is doing a good thing and it's good to support them, but the explict message is to boycott companies such as Exxon (aka E$$on) because of the crude they get from the Middle East, and that is one of the reasons why we went to war. I'm pointing out that most of our crude and hence, gas is from Canada, who has been our peaceful neighbors for centuries.

[druidity33]

27. yes, but...

Is the oil coming from Canada owned by the corporate entities E$$on, Mobil, etc.? As i understand it the "we get a majority of our oil and nat gas from Canada" just means that is where these resources are harvested. What the OP and the post you're referring to are pointing out that CITGO is not a profit-whore styled company. It is part of Venezuela's "Bolivarian Revolution"... it is the only company that has put any amount of this years monster profits into benefiting the people who are affected most by higher prices. So you see, there is no way to buy "Canadian" gas to support Canada. There is however a way to buy "Venezuelan" gas to support Venezuela... which is what i do, and what the OP is suggesting. Buy CITGO!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

40. I thought you were from my home town at first druidity

I'm not sure why but they call the city closest to me the DRUID CITY.

[druidity33]

41. actually on a map?

Are there any old growth trees nearby? Is it actually on maps? There haven't been any Druid cities since around when the Romans invaded the British isles... though Wales holds some of the traditions in its language and culture. I've spent alittle time in the Ozarks of southern Missouri, beautiful countrysides... loved the trees and the abundance of life, didn't quite like the ticks and chiggers. I've not been to Alabama yet but who knows what the future holds...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

42. Hi druidity! from school, I remeber...

Duir relates to oak and there's about three species very prevelant in the area and lots of very old ones still growing in town... have you ever heard the saying "knock on wood?" While the necks are as red as the voters, the state is emerald green rolling hills, with clear running streams.

[formernaderite]

29. surprised New Hampshire is getting any

after all there is a new democratic governor.

[bananas]

5. Citgo store locator

Citgo store locator http://www.citgomarketnet.com/CITGOLocator/CITGOAdvantage.asp
Citgo home page http://www.citgo.com

[Jeffersons Ghost]

46. thanks bananas

that store locator is handy

[Ian David]

7. Hess Gasoline is 98% Democrat! They're good, too!

Amerada Hess Corporation

$156,250 to Democrats
$3,000 to Republicans
$0 to Others
$159,250 in Total Contributions

More:
http://www.buyblue.org/node/197/view/summary

[laheina]

9. Thanks for the info.

:hi:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

11. glad it helped laheina

here's a nice present for you... Do you like sweets? it loads pretty fast and is a fun treat! http://www.truemajority.org/oreos/

[laheina]

12. Finally! A closed captioned video. :)

My computer is sound impaired at the moment--so that was extra nifty. Thanks!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

13. if you joined laheina...

You'll get fun little emails like the one I posted about every week and it really does take only minutes a month but they're FUN minutes. Having fun, while doing a good thing! Isn't that what life should be about?

[laheina]

17. I did join.

And it seems to be informative too, and I'm all about that. :)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

48. apparently they are good, if i judge them from your post ian

but the math isn't as good since Hess isn't helping like CITGO... Read back to see how Citgo makes BIG economic sense instead of a few cents to our party.

[laheina]

8. I printed the info on all of the Citgos around us.

There aren't many of them, so I keep it in my car.

I'd rather that some of that money came back to the community, instead of *none* of it.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

33. welcome to THE MATRIX laheina!

Now that you're on the right path, let's go get Mr. Anderson!

[Timefortruth]

14. Do they pay their American employees fairly?

Health benefits? Profit sharing? Honor pension promises?

I honestly don't know, but I'd like to.

[Armstead]

15. Don;t know about that but they offer 40 percent heating oil to the poor

[Jeffersons Ghost]

16. If they don't Timefortruth

Maybe we can go back to buying BUSHCO gas, where America shops! I bet those top companies like Eco-friendly EXON take real good care of their workers at convenience stores.

[1932]

19. Their money is going towards building healthy, educated people who are not

miserable.

By lifting up people on the bottom in Venezuela, they're helping to lift up all people around the world.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

34. 1932 IS a citizen of THE WORLD!!!

Welcome to the Matrix 1932! Can you fly yet?

Here's the RED pill if you take it you'll never see things the same way again!
http://www.truemajority.org/oreos/

[elshiva]

18. I bought Citgo today, Thanks! I am going to try to do this all the time.

[unkachuck]

21. thanks....

....I've meaning to tank-up at Citgo for a while now....in my old N/A, unmanaged, high-compression, 35 deg max BTDC, slow-burning-combustion-chambered clunker, I've been using 93 octane BP with no detonation under any load condition....

....this is a shot in the dark, but does anybody in similar circumstances have any experience with Citgo Premium?....

[Jeffersons Ghost]

22. here's an octane booster for you chuck

It's fast fun and a REAL fuel saver!

http://www.truemajority.org/oreos/

[unkachuck]

23. I never thought of Oreos....

....but I do use windshield-washer fluid to suppress detonation....

....'fun', yes....'fuel-saver', maybe....but it wasn't 'fast'....I'm on dial-up with an old computer.... :)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

35. SORRY CHUCK

I DON'T KNOW HOW FAST IT LOADS I'M ON CABLE... what I meant is; it's fast when you participate

[buddysmellgood]

24. Yep, I always do, when I don't bike

[BlueEyedSon]

28. Sorry, folks. This is probably not as "true" as it appears. Here's Snopes:

Gas Flout

Claim: Spurning gasoline from Shell, Chevron, Texaco, Exxon, and Mobil will cut off the funding of terrorists.

Status: False

Link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp

[1932]

32. That has nothing to do with this issue. Whether buing ExxonMobil supports

terrorism has nothing to do with the fact that buying Citgo does indeed help poor people in the US and Venezuela and everywhere.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

37. thanks '32

This is the first phase

The first phase of the program, in Boston, will offer up to 12 million gallons of heating oil with discounts from market prices. The value of these discounts is nearly $10 million at current market prices.

In New York, CITGO is providing up to 8 million gallons of discounted heating oil, which will mean savings in the millions of dollars.

In Maine, CITGO will provide 8 million gallons of heating oil at 40 percent discount to low -income families. This aid is also assisting homeless shelters and four Native American Tribes.

In Rhode Island, CITGO will provide 3.3 million gallons of discounted home heating oil to low-income families, homeless shelters and community clinics.

In Pennsylvania, CITGO is providing 5 million gallons of heating oil at 40 percent discount that will benefit as many as 25,000 low-income families in the Philadelphia region.
The contact for Pennsylvania is also Citizens Energy Corporation at 877-563-4645.

In Vermont, CITGO is providing 2.4 million gallons of Venezuelan oil to low-income Vermonters at a 40 percent discount, with an additional 108,000 gallons going to homeless shelters for free.

"With this initiative, CITGO is showing its commitment to the U.S. marketplace and to communities where we have a presence," said CITGO President and CEO Félix Rodríguez. "As good corporate citizens, we are making an effort to help those in need."

[1932]

38. Thank YOU.

And Thank Citgo.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

39. thanks for the kick as well

'32

[RoyGBiv]

44. "Buying Citgo"

When you purchase gasoline, how do you know you're purchasing gasoline made with oil from the Citgo company?

If you think the marquee on the gas station is how you know, you're wrong.

[RoyGBiv]

45. Yes, it does ...

You should read the entire article, paying special attention to this part:

"And yes, oil companies do buy and sell from one another. Mike Right of AAA Missouri says, "If a company has a station that can be served more economically by a competitor's refinery, they'll do it."

[RoyGBiv]

43. Everyone, please the post above and Snopes ...

I've all but given up trying to educate people on how all this works, but I suppose I'll tilt at that windmill one more time, briefly.

Remember this: Oil is a commodity.

Besides the information provided on Snopes, the gasoline in the ground at a Citgo station might not any trace of Citgo oil. I'm tempted to say it probably doesn't, but that would depend entirely on where you are and the sources used by refinery that serves your area.

I managed a store that was also a "Citgo station" for several years. Not once in those years did we ever sell a single drop of so-called "Citgo gasoline." We sold whatever was on tap at the nearest loading rack, which was usually gasoline refined by Wynnewood Refinery, which is owned by Gary-Williams Energy Corporation. This company, and all companies like it, acquires oil for its refineries on through the oil market. This is done through oil leases, off-shore purchases, trades between companies, exploration and development of resources, etc.

Bluntly put, every time you fill your tank, no matter where you fill it, you are supporting the oil market. Citgo is a player in that market. It is by no means the only player, obviously.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

47. let me educate you on Logos in america

Before saying that what you just posted has nothing to do with the OP, which deals with a south american country helping AMERICA as a whole, like the U.S. should be doing.

ANYTHING SOLD UNDER THE CITGO LOGO HELPS CITGO! It's not just logical it's legal.

[RoyGBiv]

49. As long as we're educating ...

Here's my reply ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=462047&mesg_id=462047

[TahitiNut]

52. The price a consumer pays includes MORE than the COST of gas ...

... and the supply chain leading back to the well. The PRICE includes profits, overhead costs, and taxes as well. So, perhaps a more balanced reply would include an analysis of what company profited by selling me my gasoline, no? Those profits have a "food chain" as well. Maybe I prefer CitGo to profit from my business instead of Exxon?

[RoyGBiv]

53. Profits ...

The point is that unless you follow that chain for every station you use to fill your tank, you have no way of knowing who profits from your gasoline purchase and at what percentages, but you can be certain that more than one energy company profits, many of which you probably never knew existed. The marquee typically has little bearing on this unless the station is owned on some level by the company whose logo is depicted. (Citgo stations are not owned by Citgo.) Even then, you can't be sure of all the companies that are profiting from your purchase, again unless you follow the chain for that particular station, and just by driving in, you have no way of knowing what level of financial interest an oil company has in a station and what percentage of the profits it takes. Does it own the tanks, the building, the franchise? Does it directly employ the proprietors, or does it have a contract with yet another company that services the retail division of the station? Does it take profits from this? Assuming the ownership interest is in the tanks, which is common, does it pay a percentage of its gasoline revenues, and if so, to whom does it pay? I've known stores that were owned by Shell with the tanks being owned by Conoco-Phillips. Furthermore, that chain may change tomorrow or next week. While I'm at it, I'll add that this chain analogy isn't a good one, as should be obvious. It's more like a spiderweb. Following it is next to impossible in most cases for the average consumer because the average consumer doesn't have easy access to the records that would allow such a trace.

Let me be as blunt and as simple as I can. Up until 1995, every single person who purchased gasoline at the Citgo station I ran was purchasing gasoline refined by a company controlled either by Kerr-McGee, Conoco, or Phillips. (1995, IIRC, was the year the Wynnewood refinery, where we got most of our gas, was acquired by the energy company mentioned in another post.) Most, but not all, of the tanker trucks were owned by a Texaco subsidiary. Where is Citgo in this? The only answer anyone outside the purchasing office for the two refineries from which we acquired our gasoline could give you is that the oil used by those refineries was purchased on the open market through various avenues. Some of that may have come from Citgo. Most of it did not.

And here's the key point: the same was true of the Phillips station north of me and the Diamond Shamrock station south of me. The tankers that delivered to me filled at one rack and delivered to both of them as well. On this surface level, just as much of the gasoline they sold benefited Citgo as what I sold since it came from the same source. When you consider that the D-S station sold three times as much gasoline as I did, buying gas from them actually provided more gross revenue to Citgo than buying from me, the Citgo station, assuming, of course, the gasoline we were selling had any Citgo oil in it at all.

With all this, I've not even started on the complex relationships between energy company owned stations and other energy companies when they form agreements to keep their tanks filled when it is not economically beneficial for the owning company to fill them from their own refineries. Assuming only two companies are involved, they both profit in equitable measure. And that's as far as I go with that because it is outside my personal frame of reference, which is to say I am aware it happens, but I don't know how it all happens in every case.

[1932]

54. From the CITGO website: Business Opportunities

In recent years, we've all witnessed tremendous changes in gasoline retailing. In the midst of this turbulent atmosphere, the last thing gasoline distributors and retailers need to be worried about is the reliability of their supplier.
Now more than ever, you need nothing less than a rock-solid alliance with a branded supplier you can count on day in and day out for:

- consistent delivery of product
- a spirit of innovation
- the exceptional service you deserve

http://www.citgo.com/BusinessOpportunities.jsp


PDVSA bought CITGO in the 90s. They probably didn't own CITGO when you worked there. IE, they weren't owned by an company which produced and refined oil then. Now that they are, I think it's much more likely that you're buying oil at a CITGO that was extracted in Venezuela and refined at a PDVSA-owned refinery.

Nonetheless, even if any particular CITGO stations sells non-CITGO gas today, each affiliate does pay CITGO for a license to use their logo. And the only way to be sure that CITGO gets money that comes at the retail level (without knowing which company filled their tanks that week), is to help a CITGO-affiliated station make a profit.

[RoyGBiv]

57. That's an advertisement ...

It really says nothing.

Where do you get your information that stations pay Citgo a licensing fee to display the logo?

[1932]

58. You worked at a CITGO-branded station and you don't know that

you can't brand your station without paying a licensing fee to the owner of the trademark?

Hmm.

And, uh, yeah, it's an advertisement. It's an inducement to get people to sign a contract to become a CITGO-affiliated service station. It doesn't mean they're lying. And, so that they don't get sued, I guarantee you that they're telling the truth on their website when the promise to supply gas to their licensees.

I'll repeat what I wrote above. PDVSA didn't buy Citgo until the mid-90s. There was probably a transition period when, even though it was owned by PDVSA, service stations operated under pre-existing contracts until those contracts expired. Once they expired and the stations signed new contracts with PDVSA-owned CITGO, those contracts were like the ones described on the CITGO website: since PDVSA is major producer and refiner of oil, it's very unlikely that they're letting service stations sign contracts that enrich their competitors.

When you worked at a CITGO station, CITGO probabaly was much smaller and stations wouldn't have signed licensing contracts unelss they were allowed to ensure supply by buying from more than one supplier.

Your knowlege of CITGO's business practices are too dated to be relevant. (And that you think service stations can slap up trademarked logos without paying their owners really makes your opinion suspect.)

[RoyGBiv]

59. Just curious ...

Have you actually read the things I've posted?

Citgo paid us, more specifically the parent company that owned the small chain of stores. I don't deny that it happens. I know that it does, in fact. I'm simply asking how you know that stores pay Citgo specifically.

Again I ask, where are you getting your information. You've got some "probably's" and "likely's" in addition to some incorrect information. Your, to be kind, theory regarding what has probably happened with Citgo distrubution since the 90's is about as wrong as it possibly could be. As already mentioned in exhaustive detail in a thread I referenced in a previous post, Citgo has refineries in 3 states and produced enough gas to provide 110 gallons of gasoline per Citgo affiliated station per day. With that in mind, thinking, even for a moment, that Citgo stations are supplied even in the majority by Citgo is flatly absurd.

I suppose it's neither here nor there at this point. We've gone from supporting Citgo by buying their gasoline to supporting Citgo by ... well, I guess by supporting those who pay them a licensing fee.

My knowledge of how the gasoline distribution business works is current, thank you very much. I left the business in which I gathered my knowledge of that system about 3 years ago, but several of my friends are still in it, and I can assure you that very little has changed except that supply chains are even tighter than they were in the 90's, and the relationships between different energy companies are even more complex, resulting in a remarkable degree of consolidation that should, if anyone were actually paying attention, raise some very dire flags regarding anti-trust issues, price fixing, etc. But as long as people go on thinking that this company is totally different from that other company and that you can avoid supporting any one of them by buying your fuel or oil-based products from one or the other, not enough attention will be paid.

[1932]

60. Do you have a copy of one of your supply contracts from your CITGO days?

Do you have a copy of a friend's CITGO contract from after the PDVSA purchase?

Do you have an explanation about why they would induce station owners with a promise to supply all their product without actually doing so?

[RoyGBiv]

61. One more time ...

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/gas04/gasoline.htm

"The Energy Information Administration (EIA) cannot definitively say where gasoline at a given station originated since EIA does not collect data on the source of the gasoline sold at retail outlets. The name on the service station sign does not tell the whole story. The fact that you purchase gasoline from a given company does not necessarily mean that the gasoline was actually produced by that particular company’s refineries. While gasoline is sold at about 167,000 retail outlets across the nation, about one-third of these stations are “unbranded” dealers that may sell gasoline of any brand. The remainder of the outlets are “branded” stations, but may not necessarily be selling gasoline produced at that company’s refineries. This is because gasoline from different refineries is often combined for shipment by pipeline, and companies owning service stations in the same area may be purchasing gasoline at the same bulk terminal. In that case, the only difference between the gasoline at station X versus the gasoline at station Y may be the small amount of additives that those companies add to the gasoline before it gets to the pump. Even if we knew at which company’s refinery the gasoline was produced, the source of the crude oil used at that refinery may vary on a day-to-day basis. Most refiners use a mix of crude oils from various domestic and foreign sources. The mix of crude oils can change based on the relative cost and availability of crude oil from different sources."

If you have anything that refutes this, please let me know.

Your questions aren't helpful. Of course I don't have such contracts in my posession. These are company property, as I'm sure you know. But, for what it's worth, Citgo was acquired by PDVSA five years before I left, and I worked for another company after this that people continue to falsely assume is a Citgo station nationwide yet is not in Oklahoma.

[1932]

62. I was going to show you in your contract where you paid a license fee

for the use of the the logo. (Why in the world would CITGO pay you money when, as you claim, you didn't even sell their oil? How would they have made any money?)

By the way, just because the US gov't can't tell you where a private company gets its gas doesn't mean the private company can't. Furthermore, CITGO stations aren't unbranded. And the article says it's only POSSIBLE that a branded station isn't selling its brand. The inverse of that is, perhaps, that it's PROBABLE that they do, and you'd have to see the contract with the service station to find out whether it is. If CITGO promises to supply CITGO gas, they will provide CITGO gas (or they'll get sued for breach of contract), which they truck in from a CITGO refinery and not from a bulk terminal. I am very confindent that the individual station's contracts specify whether the station is allowed to buy from a bulk terminal and/or whether CITGO could truck in oil from a bulk terminal, rather than a CITGO refinery.

Furthermore, the terms of business contracts aren't "company property" in every case. There might be a non-disclosure agreement in the contract, but we'd have to see the contract first. And even if there were a non-disclosuer term, it would allow for disclosures that are required by law, and they often terminate when the contract ends (which would allow you talk about the terms). Incidentally, take a look through the SEC website. Publically traded companies (PDVSA isn't one however) have to disclose the terms of their major contracts and can only keep confidential a narrow range of contract clauses. That's an example of disclosure of contract terms required by law that allow everyone to know about 95% of the contract terms of most large companies.

Hey, maybe I'll take a look through the SEC website for the typical contract with a service station. Do you have any suggestions on publically-traded oil companies similarly situated to PDVSA/Citgo? Chevron perhaps?

BTW, you said you stopped working at a CITGO station in 1995, no? You're saying PDVSA aquired CITGO in 1990?

[RoyGBiv]

65. This is the reason I ask ...

...if you've read anything I've posted. I've already answered your first question. I didn't get into this much detail, but since you keep pressing this barely relevant point, I will now.

The parent company had an agreement with Citgo(*). We accepted Citgo credit cards, which makes *them* money in two ways. One, they charge a transaction fee in the form of a percentage for each purchase. (You *could* say this was in essence charging us since as a result we made less on these transactions, but you would be wrong in saying that. Our prices of all products, gasoline and merchandise, were based on a certain profit margin, which took into account the transaction fee. IOW, the customer paid it. We made our profit margin regardless. Furthermore, this was not a charge for the logo itself. The logo was there because we accepted the credit card.) Second, Citgo made money off interest.

In exchange, Citgo paid for and installed our gasoline canopy, which contained their logo. They also paid for the installation of lights and a skirt around the roof to be illuminated by those lights that also displayed their logo. Hell, they even paid for a credit card approval system, which isn't cheap. They then paid maintenance fees for all elements of the operation they had installed. We also got a (very small) check every month that was a commission on interest acquired due to purchases in our store. The commission went away near the end of my employment with this company and was replaced by some other incentive I don't remember now, but the other things remained. In essence, they paid us for the right to advertise their brand, which is why in a previous message I referred to it as an advertising expense for them.

(*) The "parent company" was actually a small energy company (family operation) that owned the rights to various oil leases in OK and also convenience stores. All the oil drilled on their leases went either to Wynnewood or Cushing, OK where refineries existed from which it bought back gasoline they then sold in their stores.

I really don't know where you're getting this idea that everyone pays companies to display their logos. Sure, some do in some industries, but the energy business isn't like them, and convenience stores, which is what gas stations usually are now, certainly aren't. A convenience store displays dozens of different logos. They pay for none of them. Soda companies will buy you a cooler and maintain it if you agree to sell their products in it. Tobacco companies are another example of this kind of marketing that includes direct payments. Phillip-Morris, et al will pay a convenience store to display their logo, usually as part of a package deal that requires the retailer to display a counter rack with P-M products. They sell more of their brand of cigarettes this way. Citgo's advantage in paying us was that people used their credit cards (important note coming up) in a market where their gasoline wasn't sold. At 18-22% interest, the expense to them was small compared to the benefit.

Regarding contracts: I have no idea. I never even saw our contract. I saw the checks, and I had a number to call when/if something happened to the canopy that required repairs. I also saw the deliveries from Citgo in the form of marketing material, credit card receipts, etc., purchased and sent to us by Citgo. I also knew who I dealt with when I ordered gasoline, and it wasn't Citgo.

On that note, since you mention it, I'd be amused if you could tell me how many distribution trucks Citgo owns and where they're headquartered. Ballpark figure and general location(s) would be fine. While you're at it, I'd also be interested in you letting me know how transportation contracts work and what relationship they have to the energy companies and the distribution of gasoline. That is, say we've got a Conoco station on the corner, and it needs gasoline. Who do they call and what company brings them the gasoline if, say, they get it from the Conoco-Phillips loading rack?

As for your "just because the US government" comment, somehow I knew that was coming. Let me put it this way. Yes, a private company can tell you which refinery it used to fill its tanks, and I am telling you as a former employee of a private company that we got our gasoline the same way every single other gasoline station in our area got its gasoline. After calculating price and transportation costs, it got it from the distribution center that was least expensive at any given moment, which is basically what the article I quoted told you. Sometimes that means a branded station's own refinery or loading rack. Sometimes it does not. And that brings me full circle to my original point. You have no way of knowing where the gasoline in the ground came from just by driving into a station with a certain logo on it. That was my initial point and my only point. Everything else has been an attempt to help others understand why this is the case.

Here's the bottom line. You are not displaying an understanding of how energy production and distribution in this country works. I have offered you information on how it does work based on personal experience that happens to jibe exactly with what every independent review of the energy business will tell you if you look. I offered the EIA link because it is an authoritative source. If you don't believe it or me, I have no idea what you want me to do, and I don't know where we should go with this. I can't argue against speculation except with fact, and you do not seem willing to accept what I claim is fact. I'm *not* arguing this for my health. I'm simply attempting to help people understand because, as mentioned previously, believing the common myth that is on display here, energy companies get away with a lot more than they might otherwise.

Regarding the ownership of Citgo:

I am saying that in 1990 PDVSA acquired the second half of the company. I wasn't there, didn't sign the contract, so I dunno from personal experience, but that's what Citgo says.

http://www.citgo.com/AboutCITGO/CITGOTimeline/CITGOTimeline1990s.jsp

"1990 Fox Television's animated program "The Simpsons" makes its television debut; "America's Funniest Home Videos" is the most popular television show.

1990 CITGO becomes wholly owned by PDVSA upon its acquisition of the remaining half of the company."

Perhaps Citgo is wrong about who owns it and when they came to own it?

[1932]

66. From Citgo's SEC 10K (ie, I rest my case):

Remember, it's a serious violation to lie in your 10K.


CITGO and its subsidiaries are engaged in the refining, marketing and transportation of petroleum products including gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, petrochemicals, lubricants, asphalt and refined waxes, mainly within the continental United States east of the Rocky Mountains.
...
CITGO’s transportation fuel customers include CITGO branded wholesale marketers, convenience stores and airlines located mainly east of the Rocky Mountains.
...
CITGO’s largest single supplier of crude oil is PDVSA. CITGO has entered into long-term crude oil supply agreements with PDVSA with respect to the crude oil requirements for each of CITGO’s Lake Charles, Corpus Christi, Paulsboro and Savannah refineries.
...
Light Fuels. Gasoline sales accounted for 55% of CITGO’s refined product sales revenue in 2004, 57% in 2003, and 61% in 2002. CITGO supplies CITGO branded gasoline to approximately 14,000 independently owned and operated CITGO branded retail outlets located throughout the United States, primarily east of the Rocky Mountains. CITGO purchases gasoline to supply this marketing network, as the gasoline production from the Lake Charles, Corpus Christi and Lemont refineries was only equivalent to approximately 54%, 57% and 54% of the volume of CITGO branded gasoline sold in 2004, 2003 and 2002, respectively. Purchases of gasoline from CITGO’s affiliates, PDVSA, LYONDELL-CITGO and Hovensa, provide 32%, 36% and 32% of the volume of CITGO branded gasoline sold in 2004, 2003 and 2002, respectively.
...
CITGO’s strategy is to enhance the value of the CITGO brand by delivering quality products and services to the consumer through a large network of independently owned and operated CITGO branded retail locations. This enhancement is accomplished through a commitment to quality, dependability and excellent customer service to its independent marketers, which constitute CITGO's primary distribution channel.

Sales to independent branded marketers typically are made under contracts that range from three to seven years. Sales to 7-ElevenTM convenience stores are made under a contract that extends through August 31, 2006. Under this contract, CITGO arranges all transportation and delivery of motor fuels and handles all product ordering.

CITGO’s delivery of light fuels to its customers is accomplished in part through 52 refined product terminals located throughout CITGO’s primary market territory. Of these terminals, 42 are wholly-owned by CITGO and 10 are jointly owned. Eleven of CITGO’s product terminals have waterborne docking facilities, which greatly enhance the flexibility of CITGO’s logistical system. Refined product terminals owned or operated by CITGO provide a total storage capacity of approximately 21 million barrels. Also, CITGO has active exchange relationships with over 300 other refined product terminals, providing flexibility and timely response capability to meet distribution needs.
...
CITGO owns and operates a crude oil pipeline and three products pipeline systems. CITGO also has equity interests in three crude oil pipeline companies and six refined product pipeline companies. CITGO’s pipeline interests provide it with access to substantial refinery feedstocks and reliable transportation to refined product markets, as well as cash flows from dividends. One of the refined product pipelines in which CITGO has an interest, Colonial Pipeline, is the largest refined product pipeline in the United States, transporting refined products from the Gulf Coast to the mid-Atlantic and eastern seaboard states. CITGO has a 15.8 percent ownership interest in Colonial Pipeline.

http://www.citgo.com/WebOther/InvestorRelations/10K2004Final.pdf

I rest my case. Your average branded CITGO station gets 86% of its supply from CITGO or a CITGO affiliate and 7-Eleven gets 100% from Citgo. CITGO, in turn, gets the vast majority of its supply from the company which owns CTIGO, PDVSA -- and even if it's not coming from PDVSA, Citgo is adding value and likely making a profit on it by reselling gasoline they purchase. (There's a chart in the 10K which shows how much each refinery gets from PDVSA.)

Bottom line: if you want your gasoline dollar to go to a company which isn't using the money to help Republicans like GWB run the world, and is going towards educating and providing health care for people who aren't at the very top of the pyramid, CITGO is your company.

As for your situation, you worked at a station that, if it had a 5 or more year supply contract with CITGO, might have been operating under a supply and branding agreement that was entered into before PDVSA purchased CITGO. You have to admit that being owned by a company with direct access to the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere is going mean some changes in how much light fuel you get from your supplier. In fact, it looks like PDVSA, LYONDELL-CITGO (and possibly Hovensa) came on line since the PDVSA purchase and their purpose is to make sure that more PDVSA/Citgo gasoline makes it to their 14,000 branded service stations.

[RoyGBiv]

68. Okay, we're done then ...

But out of curiosity, which case are you resting? You've made a lot of assertions. This addresses one of them, but not in the way you think. Have anything more to say about the licensing of logos? Just exactly what are we arguing today.

That document does not say what you think it says because you have a fundamental lack of understanding of the terms being used. This basically answers my distribution question, although not the part about the trucks and the interrelation between companies.

Pay attention to this part that you yourself underlined and which I will bold.

"CITGO purchases gasoline to supply this marketing network, as the gasoline production from the Lake Charles, Corpus Christi and Lemont refineries was only equivalent to approximately 54%, 57% and 54% of the volume of CITGO branded gasoline sold in 2004, 2003 and 2002, respectively. Purchases of gasoline from CITGO’s affiliates, PDVSA, LYONDELL-CITGO and Hovensa, provide 32%, 36% and 32% of the volume of CITGO branded gasoline sold in 2004, 2003 and 2002, respectively."

The percentages you came up with are fouled up.

I also suggest you look up what 7ElevenTM means and tell me again that 100% of gasoline in 7-11 stores is Citgo gas. There are a lot of 7-11 stores that don't fall under this. I worked for this company for 4 years. We got our gasoline from Conoco-Phillips mostly, and it was usually transported by Texaco (StarMart brand) tankers.

Anyway, never mind. Believe whatever you want. Oil companies won't care.

[Bushy Being Born]

69. Thanks for your input in this thread

As someone with a limited knowledge of the oil business (and not being afraid to admit it, I might add ;)) reading your posts has been educational.

[1932]

70. What case? The case that buying CITGO-branded gas makes PDVSA money

And that it doesn't makes the six or seven major oil companies as much (if it makes them anything at all) -- which means it makes less money for the people who name their tankers after Condoleeza Rice.

However, to respond to a few of your points: It looks as if 7-11 stores that sell Citgo gas sell only citgo gas. How else would you read that sentence? It says that for those stations, they handle everything.

I think if you look at the 7-11 web site you'll see that half of 7-11s are owned by 7-11 and half are franchises. I don't know which of the two generally have contracts with CITGO. But the ones that have CITGO supply agreements look like they get all their gas from CITGO, and this is under a contract that runs until 2006. Perhaps they didn't have the contract when you worked there? (Which was one of my points here -- whatever your experience with CITGO was, it was strongly dependent on the kind of contract your station had, and not only are there variations across stations, but also over time.)

And how are my percentages fouled up? In 2004, 54% of CITGO-branded gasoline that was sold at citgo-branded stations came from one of four CITGO-owned refineries and 32% came from an affiliated refinery -- either PDVSA, Lyondell-Citgo or Hovensa. 54%+32%=86%. Furthermore, the 10K says that selling CITGO-branded gasonline at CITGO-branded retailer is the majority of CITGO's business. So, selling it to a Sunoco or Chevron-branded station is not. If you want to buy CITGO gasoline, then it looks like you need to go to a CITGO station because it doesn't look like they're selling it in many other places.

As for the part you bolded, it looks like CITGO buys 14% of the gasoline it supplies to CITGO stations. So? I don't understand your point about that.

As for the licensing of the logo, I guess we need to see the contract to see how that works. They don't talk about it in the 10K and (assuming it was even the typical contract, or one they still use -- which I doubt) you didn't see the one you operated under. So neither of us know for sure.

[tavalon]

30. Been doing that for the six months or so

[SCDem]

31. Been doing this for about 8 months now

[Tsiyu]

36. Thanks, I try to buy at Citgo as often as I can

I also urge everyone to switch to Progressive Insurance.

:hi:

[Nutmegger]

50. I've been buying from Citgo since late October

I believe it was then that Chavez has said that Citgo would offer discounted oil. So sad that Bush Inc can't even take care of the people. Personal responsibility my ass.

Interestingly enough, I've also noticed that Citgo is at least ten cents cheaper in fuel than the other gas stations.

[NinetySix]

51. My FATHER goes out of his way to buy Citgo gas

I was just talking to him tonight and he told me that he won't even buy Exxon gas. "If I were flat out of gas and sitting in an Exxon parking lot," he said, or words to that effect, "I'd walk to another station and buy a dollar's worth just to get me to that other station." And he's serious about where he buys gas -- he drives a LOT as part of his job, and going out of his way as he does to buy Citgo gas, he's possibly spending a bit more to do so.

My father thinks like me, and he tries to stay current on what's going on in this Administration, but he isn't often quite as up-to-date as I am. Even so, I was somewhat surprised to here him talk about it so vehemently and passionately. I must say I was really impressed that he would forego his own convenience rather than give in to expediency like too many people.

[Greyhound]

55. Wish I could, here the price of CITGO is typically .10 - .12 higher

and this precludes me from making that choice (in addition to the extra 8 miles or so to the nearest station). :shrug:

[1932]

64. That .10-.12 cents per gallon is funding an anti-neoliberal project which

could possibly lift up all working people on this planet.

I'd rather spend it that way then on financing the Texans who are ruining our country.

[BlackVelvet04]

56. Sunoco and BP scored higher as socially responsible companies

http://www.betterworldhandbook.com/gasoline.html

[1932]

63. CITGO, the US company, might not be as "socially responsible" as

BP and Sunoco, which have to go on a public relations offensive to make up for the damage they do to the world.

However, CITGO is wholey owned by PDVSA and sends a huge amount of revenue back to Venezuela which is using that money to fund a Bolivarian Revolution.

I will eat my computer if Sunoco and BP outscore PDVSA on the social responsibility test.

[melissinha]

67. Remember 7/11 is Citgo

For those who have hard time finding it

My last tank was Citgo.
I try to buy from Citgo and Costco (CostCo contributed $222K to Democrats). Citgo isn't as close to Costco, so its about proximity for me)

I love that Citgo is on my drive home, though!

For more voting iwth your wallet, visit BuyBlue
http://www.buyblue.org/?q=

[1932]

71. According to CITGO's 10K, 100% of the gasoline sold at Citgo-7/11s is

CITGO-processed gasoline, which is a higher percentage than at CITGO-branded service stations (which seems to be about 86%).