The Hackett situation will hurt the Democratic Party

[x-g.o.p.er]

I like Hackett, alot. As an active duty guy, I think guys like Hackett are essential for the future of this party, and what the Dem leadership did to him will only reverberate throughout the party, all the way down to the grass roots level.

They fucked him, and they were going to smear him if he didn't back out. Harry Reid's office was prepared to call him a war criminal, when he served with honor. That's beyond every level of fucked up I've heard in a long time.

I thought what the Republicans did to Kerry was shameful, what happened to Max Cleeland was reprehensible, but because it was done by Chickenhawk Republicans, I could see it coming a mile away.

But for the Senate Minority Leader to do this to an up and coming star in the party? And a lot of people on this board are seemingly okay with it?

Unbelieveable. And embarrassing.

http://motherjones.com/news/update/2006/02/hackett_drops_out.html

[bpilgrim]

1. the establishment saw him as a loose cannon

can't have that i guess :shrug:

i liked how he wasn't afraid to speak truth 2 power.

peace

[formernaderite]

4. I would disagree that he was always willing to speak the truth

his campaign ads against Mean Jean, confused the public as to which party he belonged to...looked like he was a bush supporter. However, I think his ouster was due to speaking out of turn, and I do think that it will prove to be a tragedy "if" it turns out the allegations are true. If it's a bullshit story....then he's a whining prima dona.

[x-g.o.p.er]

5. This will have a lasting effect...

People that are vets or on active duty are already gun-shy about the Democratic Party, for the most part, to begin with. They are looking elsewhere for leadership other than the Commander in Chief, who has embittered a lot of people on active duty. There are many people who feel like Hackett does, and when they see that Hackett got fucked like he did, they will be reticent to join our party. It makes it tough for guys like me to try and convince others that the Democrats have the best interests of veterans in mind.

They are begging for a reason to leave the Republican party, and this is not encouraging them to make the leap.

[upi402]

2. I'm not aware of all the facts here, but I have to finally agree 100%

This is the only conclusion I can come to -that is, to see the big picture as being just what you said. This is like choosing which child should live and which may pass.

But the dirty tricks are absolute filth -if proven true.

[emulatorloo]

3. "Harry Reid's office was prepared to call him a war criminal"

I call BullShit. That is a total fabrication. Hackett said in interviews that I heard with my own ears that Reid treated him great

[x-g.o.p.er]

6. One of Reid's staffers has admitted as such...

and what is Hackett going to do, start a civil war in the party?

He bowed out with grace and dignity, something Harry Reid's office needs to read up about.

[MH1]

7. Hmmm. Grace and dignity?

That's not the impression I got.

[OzarkDem]

10. Do you have proof or a link?

No? I didn't think so.

[x-g.o.p.er]

24. On Taylor Marsh's blog...

It was alluded to, but I can't find the quote. I'll keep looking.

[Adelante]

26. Thank you

I would like to see the basis.

[Adelante]

14. "One of Reid's staffers has admitted as such..."

Where and when? I've seen the opposite. Reid's staff examined the photos and said they had no bearing.

[emulatorloo]

18. Quote from the article Reid staffer: PHOTOS "IN NO WAY COMPROMISING"

<snip>


A staffer in Reid’s office confirmed that Hackett had showed them several photos. “The ones I saw were part of a diary he kept while serving in Iraq and were in no way compromising. The one picture in question depicted Marines doing their work on what looked like a scorching day in Iraq,” said the aide.

<snip>

[OzarkDem]

19. What a hoax

It would be easy to write this off to another GOP trick, but why is Hackett spreading so much misinformation about it? Very strange indeed.

[jackbourassa]

21. Hackett bowed out with "grace and dignity?"

Are you and I living on the same planet? There was nothing graceful or dignified about the way Hackett left that race.

He saw that he was going to lose and decided to shit on Democrats in order to save face.

Personally I thought it was disgraceful.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

23. Where in the article does it say that

one of Reid's staffers admitted as such? This is the only quote I found that even talked about one of his staffers & he hardly 'admitted as such'

A staffer in Reid’s office confirmed that Hackett had showed them several photos. “The ones I saw were part of a diary he kept while serving in Iraq and were in no way compromising. The one picture in question depicted Marines doing their work on what looked like a scorching day in Iraq,” said the aide.

[patrice]

8. I don't know anything about this.

There are "deal breakers", you know. Everyone has them. For me it's the War Powers votes. Starting Wars is a deal breaker for me.

Though I try to listen to Others anyway, so please speak freely for yourself and I like the information different points of view can share, Whether we agree or not, empirical explanation is open ended, ongoing, integrating, so even just some brave Discourse on the Pros and Cons of Everything, Anything . . . . openly integrates most differences, unless there's a "deal breaker".

[OzarkDem]

9. Calling Bullshit again

This article has no sources, no evidence, nothing. Hackett needs to take a nice long vacation and cool off.

[x-g.o.p.er]

11. Mother Jones is not your average Right WIng rag...

Had it appeared elsewhere, I might think there is more fabrication than truth. But this website is a pretty progressive one, so I take it with more legitimacy than I normally would.

[emulatorloo]

15. Here's my reply to that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2466660&mesg_id=2466752

[OzarkDem]

16. They still have nothing

but baseless allegations. I don't care what their motivation is, this is sloppy journalism.

[John Q. Citizen]

20. So far it's almost all unattributed sources and unattributed

villains.

I heard Hackett in his interview with Ed Schultz say Harry Reid is a good man who has always treated Hackett well.

Hackett made his decision to exit the race. Who knows, perhaps Hackett does have skeletons in his closet he doesn't want to be exposed. Maybe if he won the primary, he was worried the Repos might know something.

I don't know. And neither do any of the posters here.

Until anyone can come up with some real evidence of some real political crime being committed, all of it is a bunch of BS.

[madmom]

12. I think this is bull because I heard earlier that the swiftboating had

started and he said he didn't have the money to fight it.

[Algorem]

13. Crock.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

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[Algorem]

53. you're a bright guy.tell me again how DeWine might lose the primary.

i'm very fortunate to get advice from some such a bright guy.

[pinto]

17. A rumor of a rumor. Article's very vague, and doesn't name Reid as source

Bold highlight is mine.

"Swift boats soon appeared on the horizon. A whisper campaign started: Hackett committed war crimes in Iraq—and there were photos. “The first rumor that I heard was probably a month and a half ago,” Dave Lane, chair of the Clermont County Democratic Party, told me the day after Hackett pulled out of the race. “I heard it more than once that someone was distributing photos of Paul in Iraq with Iraqi war casualties with captions or suggestions that Paul had committed some sort of atrocities. Who did it? I have no idea. It sounds like a Republican M.O. to me, but I have no proof of that. But if it was someone on my side of the fence, I have a real problem with that. I have a hard time believing that a Democrat would do that to another Democrat.”"

[OzarkDem]

22. But right leaning news sources

have been quick to jump on the story. This has Rove's fingerprints on it. Plain Dealer has a direct pipeline to the WH.

http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/openers/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_openers/archives/2006_02.html#113936

[FrenchieCat]

25. I think your point's been missed due to the Reid allegation.....

But I do believe that your OP is accurate in the reaction that many will have, because not many will read every article on this to get to the truth....if the actual truth is even there to be located

Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, based on the circumstances; how the situation was handled (by all), the overall perception will be that Hackett was forced out of the race by the Dem Leaders...

and this, will make it much harder for the Democratic Party to look like they've got a tent that members of the Armed Forces and their families will want to gather under due to their opposition and lack of confidence to The Chimp President.

It is said that many in the Armed Forces do not support the President and his policies.....it is something now like 50%/50%.

If you, an active duty guy, interpreted what went down in the way that you articulated in your OP....then yes, the perception will hurt swaying more folks onto our side.....and the result, in a long run, is that Democrats did indeed shoot themselves in the foot, regardless of what really happened.

We took two steps forward by introducing the Fightin' Dems....and we took two steps back based on the "perception" that the Party leaders did not want to support an Iraq War Veteran who appeared very outspoken and mad as hell.

Remember folks......it ain't what it is, it's what it appears to be that does the damage. John kerry wasn't deserving of anything that the Swiftboaters accused him of.....but that had little bearing on how it was received by many of the voting public.

So we can go on all day as to who said what, and who threatened what, and who called who, etc., etc.....
Bottomline -- Damage has been done

[OzarkDem]

27. Rove must be proud

His efforts have really paid off on this one.

[FrenchieCat]

29. Well the question becomes......

Was it Rove who asked Hackett to get out of the Dem Senate Race? Or was it Dem party leaders?

The overwhelming perception out there is that it was the party leaders.

I realize that Rove is crafty as hell, but Democrats are by no means perfect.

So I agree with you that Rove is loving this story to death.....but I'm not sure if it was his baby from the get.

[OzarkDem]

31. Try reading the article again

Dems had nothing to do with it. The story full of baseless allegations has appeared suddenly in this forum and just as quickly in the right wing news in Cleveland. Its not hard to connect the dots.

Hackett said he pulled out of the race because of money. You may want to think very long and very hard about falling for GOP tricks and trying to make a connection that doesn't exist. If you're a Dem, that is.

[FrenchieCat]

35. I think you are being a bit too offensive in responding to what

I actually am saying. Read what I wrote again, make sure you understand my point, and then come again.

....it is the results in the end that will tell the tale.

Even among DUers there is plenty of disagreement on what actually went down, but I was thinking more of the general public and what they will conclude.

Please note that I haven't fallen for GOP JACKshit. The Dem Party Leaders stink in my book....and have since long before Hackett's name was known to me.

(edited to change Defensive to offensive....which is what you were to me. Questioning my Democratic credentials is more than just a bit overboard--Doncha Think?)

[OzarkDem]

37. There's no way

Dems would start something like this. They would have nothing to gain by it. Like them or not, it doesn't fit their MO. It does fit Rove's though. Think about it.

[FrenchieCat]

41. I beg to differ.....

Yes, I do.

Dems come in all sizes, shapes and capabilities. We've got some good ones, and some not so good ones. Some have clean hands and some not so clean.

After checking out at close range the 2004 primaries, I'd have to say that there are Democratic politicians out there that would do what might be judged as "scandalous".

You may be focusing on the "Swiftboat technique" while me myself am looking at how they encouraged and then discouraged the man from running.

[OzarkDem]

54. Those are two completely different things

and its a leap you can't make.

No one has yet to make a case that the "leak" even happened. There was no rumor about Hackett in the rumor mill. How can one have smear campaign if no one knows about it except the candidate and his supporters?

[x-g.o.p.er]

33. If this leads back to Rove....

and it's proven that Republicans were actually behind this, the military support that is becoming tenuous at best for Bush will evaporate, and they will have no chance at all of keeping Congress in 2006 or the Presidency in 2008.

I think, with as weak politically as Bush is, not even Rove would risk that.

[LittleClarkie]

40. What efforts?

Where are the Republican fingerprints on this FUBAR?

I think all Rove had to do on this one was :popcorn:

[x-g.o.p.er]

42. I agree n/t

[x-g.o.p.er]

30. Thank you!!!....

for succinctly articulating what I am incapable of. And I did get off on a rant about the sources for the story, which wasn't my original point.

In this day and age, unfotunately, perception is reality, especially in politics.

Military folks were probably 75-25 in support of Bush when he came in office in 2000, and the absentee ballot story after Florida 2000 might have pushed it up even farther. If it's 50-50 today, I would be shocked. We see first hand what is going on, and people are begging for an alternative.

In Hackett, or people like him, it seemed like he might have been a viable option to help Republicans make a leap to the other side of the fence. If the perception is that Democrats will do that to their own, and one who's a veteran, they'll stay Republican.

A thousand thank you's...

[OzarkDem]

32. Plays very well for Republicans, doesn't it

They're the masters of swiftboating and campaign dirty tricks.

[x-g.o.p.er]

34. Please see post 33...n/t

[OzarkDem]

36. Of course he would risk it

He's taken much, much bigger risks than this and he's got the Cleveland Plain Dealer on his side. They're a media powerhouse in Ohio, widely known for using phony polling data to damage both the Gore and Kerry campaigns. They'll promote his campaign and cover his tracks, too.

Rove has nothing to fear here, he's never been held accountable,even when he's been caught.

[LittleClarkie]

28. Proof?

The only story I've seen has Reid asking about the rumors. There has been no indication from any report I've seen so far, including your link, that indicated he was involved in smearing Hackett.

As for alot of us on the board being okay with "it" we need to figure out what "it" is first.

I just wish that article didn't read more like an opinion piece than a piece of journalism.

[RazzleDazzle]

38. Well, active duty guy, I'm with you

Also, it's already affected the grassroots.

And what a WONDERFUL way to support our troops and vets, eh?? Pffft.

Makes me sick.

And for all those insisting that our good Dems had nothing to do with sabotaging Hackett's candidacy, well, there've been NO real denials so far and I don't expect any. The non-denials from Brown's office are a national disgrace, IMO. If you're going to engage in such skullduggery, you damn well better be better fucking liars than that.

[OzarkDem]

39. Check your facts

Dems had nothing to do with it. Anyone in a hurry to jump on this rumor will have a lot of explaining to do.

[FrenchieCat]

43. You mean the Dem leaders didn't encourage Hackett to run before he

threw is hat in, and then discouraged him after the fact?

Please tell me more!

[OzarkDem]

52. False premise

Agree, they agreed to support him when they shouldn't have. When his inexperience began to show and when he ended up being a dud on the real world campaign trail, they had to make a decision. Happens all the time. Happened to several other Dems in Ohio in the same week - just before screening for endorsements and filing deadlines.

[x-g.o.p.er]

44. In the article in the OP...

Hackett says Schumer told him without saying directly that he should pull out.

It smells like a rat. A Democratic rat.

[OzarkDem]

55. Please tell me

what that has to do with starting rumors about Hackett?

[ChiciB1]

48. Okay, Okay... My Personal Feelings Are That THEY Should Have Let

him lose fair & square! I think Hackett was a real boost to the Democrats and they screwed it up... Big Time, IMO!

However, does ANY of it matter anymore?? Democrats are rocking on their heels when they should be shooting off rockets! The only problem we should be working on is just HOW the Democrats dig themselves out of a hole they keep making bigger and bigger!

Me, I'm just at a loss for what to do anymore! NO MATTER WHAT these Evil Corrupt Ass-Wipes do, Democrats seem to come up with something to top it and MSM just jumps right in.

So WHEN will ANY lessons be learned?? We want Public Trust from Representatives AND the President, geez what an OXYMORON!!! We scream and holler and get more MUD in the eye!

So maybe it's Friday and I'm flummoxed a bit, but I felt the same way last Friday and the one before! I'm really really really tired!! Seems the tent has collapsed! Just forgive me before you flame me, I can't figure it out anymore. Rome IS going to have to BURN before it's over!

[x-g.o.p.er]

49. Term Limits...

Constitutional amendment to limit terms in the House and Senate, and outlaw lobbying and all perks. Each member of Congress gets a staff of three, and a place to stay while Congress is in session.

It's the only way to end the era of politics as a profession.

[ChiciB1]

51. I Agree With Term Limits... Only If The Staff Leaves Too!

And also the AIDES that feed them all the fodder!

But it will never happen and it doesn't make me feel much better!

[OzarkDem]

57. Your GOP troll credentials are showing

careful...

[Pithy Cherub]

50. Agreed. This was handled as badly as it could be by amateurs

pretending to be *leaders* of the congressional Democrats. A primary would have actually made it cleaner, clearer and easier for a unity appeal. This has left a bitter lemony taste nationwide against those entrenched in *establishment leadership* of elected democrats. :puke:

[OzarkDem]

56. Yeah, those Dems who are friends of Sherrod can't be trusted

Dennis Kucinich, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Marcy Kaptur...

[davidinalameda]

58. locking

flamebait