We are past the point of partisan solutions to our nation's problems!

[IndianaGreen]

The American Republic is long dead! It is sad to see the Democratic Party, with some very notable and courageous exceptions, become a party to its burial. The men and women and gave us the Republic wanted a government that was limited in scope and respectful of their rights, including the rights of the minorities (political, religious, social). They feared a monarchy as much as they feared a dictatorship of a majority. They most definitely did not want the state to impose sectarian views as they had seen happening in Europe! They wanted to be left alone to pursue their own happiness, relying in government and in their collective efforts for those things that as individuals they could not accomplish on their own. Those days are over!

Dictatorship is the only way to describe the Bush Administration. In a few short years a significant number of Americans have embraced an absolute monarchy, a monarchy without a throne or crown. The Presidency under Bush has absorbed all the powers that the Framers of the Constitution had to painstakingly divided between three branches of government. The Presidency has claimed the power to start wars without Congressional approval, to detain people indefinitely without charges, to torture and abuse detainees with impunity, and to assassinate whoever they want at any time or place, including American soil. Absolutism at home has led to militarism abroad, the United States joining a long list of aggressor states that include such recent notables as Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, and in an ironic twist, Saddam's Iraq.

Many of our friends speak of Democratic chances in 2006 and 2008, yet they ignore the well documented record that Republicans have of ballot fraud and voter disenfranchisement. There is little evidence that things will be different in the upcoming midterm elections or in the 2008 Presidential race. Elections in America have become the mirror image of elections held in any authoritarian regime in the Third World. It is only a matter of time before opposition candidates are found laying on a ditch, hands tied behind the back, a bullet shot to the back of the head.

Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures, and this is one of those times in which we face an unpalatable choice: resistance or exile!

If we choose the path of resistance we must take every opportunity to publicly and loudly oppose every action the Bush dictatorship takes. Our opposition must always firm, resolute, and peaceful! Even a hint of violence would give the Bush dictatorship a pretext to impose more draconian measures on the American people. We must deny the Bush tyranny that pretext by adopting the tactics used by Gandhi in India and Martin Luther King in the US. Unlike Gandhi and Dr. King, we will not prevail in our struggle. Imperial nations such as the United States have always succeeded in crushing internal opposition. Their collapse was always brought about by a combination of external opposition and their folly in believing in their own invisibility.

Exile is always an option, and in the case of those under persecution such as the LGBT community, it may be the only viable option that is now available. To those that dismiss exile as leftist paranoia, I can only suggest that they consider the fate of the German Jews that waited until it was too late for them to escape the Holocaust. Do not make the same mistake!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, Lord Acton was quoted as saying. To Acton's words we must add that absolute power leads to absolute cruelty, as we have seen in the way American troops have treated the Iraqi population. Those same troops will be used on American soil against the American people! If you doubt, do a Google on Posse Comitatus, and on the current efforts by the Bush dictatorship to do away with its remnants in order to "protect us."

The end will not be a happy one for any of us!

[Burning Water]

1. Whoa!

I have occassionally thought that perhaps I was a defeatist. You've given me a whole new standard.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. K & R eom

[Somawas]

3. Recommended

A well written piece. And until something serious is done about ES&S and Diebold vote stealing for Republicans, nothing short of massive resistance will result in a defeat of the fascist juggernaut. I don't completely share your view that resistance is futile, but Democrats are doing their bit to see if they can implode faster than Republicans.

[havocmom]

4. Yep. The good news: Most of the life long Republicans in my RED county

have arrived at the same conclusion. Bad news: they are coming awake a bit too late, I fear.

Want some whiskey with your coffee?

[MadisonProgressive]

12. What, no vodka, comrade?

[havocmom]

20. Neyt

That's for hot weather :D

[dubya_dubya_III]

65. Time for the re-awakening of Republican Liberty and Liberalism

Consider the names of these fictitious American Political Parties:

Roman Catholic Party
Lutheran Party
Episcopal Party
Southern Baptist Party
Shiite Party
Sunni Party

Would there be something wrong here? Doesn't our Constitution forbid the
establishment of religion in such a manner? Now considers these real organizations:

Christian Falangist Party of America
Family Values Party
American Falangist Party
Christian Coalition of America

76% of Americans are Christians, and the last organization (also the largest) listed above is actually a division of the now apparently unconstitutional National Republican Party

Now ask yourself why our "government" of Republican Liberty supports the unworkable and unfair Two State non-Solution (a divided Jerusalem) when only a Three State Solution (Tripartite Veto over a 3rd Independent State of Jerusalem) could ever possibly have any hope of working?

When you plan for strife and division you get strife and division!

What of the just wisdom of Solomon? Would you carve your child in two to save your marriage? End this illogical, criminal support for endless war with Islam! A Democrat can easily win the White House, and we can sweep back to power by simply reminding our followers that one does not hate or kill for any honest belief in a supreme being who is Love itself.

The reason for the absence of a liberal movement in the USA is mainly that the chief aspirations of European liberalism were largely embodied in the Constitution of the United States and the development of political parties here was unfavorable to the growth of parties based on socialist ideologies. With the mutation of the National Republican Christian Socialist Party all this has now changed!!!

"Today Christians rule Germany! I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess..." -
*The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1

[Armstead]

5. A response...Things are getting better, despite appearances

IMO you make some good points, and at times I have a similar feeling of frustration.

But I also think you may be missing a couple of things. I'm not as pessimistic as you, and I actually believe things are moving in a positive direction.

Here's my perspective.

Unlike some on this board, I see the 1990's as the REAL Dark Ages for the Democratic Party and the real cause of the cause of the mess we're presently in. That's when the Democratic Party fell down on the job. It had the chance to reverse the dark course of the 1980's, bit instead, it was complicit in the GOP message and the same CON job with a nicer face on it. Democrats enabled the Conservative Revolution by echoing too many of the corporater CONservative assumptions and policies.

There was a progressive counter-movement in the 1990's, and even some Democratic politicians who kept the flame alive, whether it was the liberalism of Ted Kennedy or the more progressive reformers like Wellstone and the House progressive Caucus. They raised valid criticisms of things like corporate consolidation, the undermining of workers rights, NAFTA, globalization, Clinton's handling of Iraq, the draconian nature of "welfare reform," etc. They warned about the growing class divisions, erosion of the middle and working class and dangers of concentration of power and wealth.

But progressives and librals were marginalized and ignored and kept in a corner in the 1990's. They were treated by the Democratic establishment as a small nuisance. Even diehard traditional liberals like Ted Kennedy were treated like the embarassing crazy uncle in the closet.

That set the scene for the divide that erupted in the 2000 election, and the current fault-lines within the Democratic Party and the left in general.

Here's where I disagree with your assessment. I believe things ARE finally moving in a better direction. The progressives and liberals have grown from being a small mosquito into a political force that really has been putting the Democratic Establish on notice that they can;t take these things for granted anymore.

In other words, the issues that liberals and progressives were trying unsuccessfully to raise in the 90's have broken out to become part of the mainstream political debate and agenda. Even foplks like Louo Dobbs on CNN, who was a big cheerleader for the corporate con job in the 1990's, is now talking on economic issues in a way that almost sounds like Paul Wellstone and Bernie Sanders.

That's not denying two significant problems. One is the obvious power and obnoxiousness of the GOP. The other is the calcified Democratic Establishment that continues to want to keep the lid on the kettle and perpetuate the same old, same old....Both of them also are in cahoots with the corporate machine and its media.

But as bad and intractable as things still often seem (and I feel that way too), I believe the forces of Good are on the ascendency, both within the political system, and in the larger society at large. The momentum is there, and we have to keep building on that at all levels with a positive belief that we can succeed, and are already succeeding in many respects.

[IndianaGreen]

6. How many Democrats opposed the PATRIOT extension?

Russ Feingold's lone fight was joined by Robert Byrd and independent Jim Jeffords. Everyone else decided to vote for the "compromise."

Statement of Senator Russ Feingold On the Latest on the Patriot Act

February 16, 2006

"The Majority Leader's concession to put off final votes on the Patriot Act deal for almost two weeks gives the Senate time to consider whether this deal is good for the country, and allows the American people their chance to be heard. Contrary to an erroneous news report, I will continue to oppose this flawed deal, insist that the Senate jump through every procedural hoop, and demand the right to offer amendments to improve it. As Chairman Specter noted, the deal makes only "cosmetic" changes to the Patriot Act. No amount of cosmetics can disguise the fact that it fails to protect the rights and freedoms of law-abiding Americans."

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/02/2006216.html

Statement of U.S. Senator Russ Feingold On Stopping the Bad Patriot Act Deal
As Prepared for Delivery from the Senate Floor

February 16, 2006

Mr. President, the upcoming cloture vote on the motion to proceed to S. 2271, introduced by my friend Senator Sununu, is the first opportunity for my colleagues to go on record on whether they will accept the White House deal on Patriot Act reauthorization. Back in December, 46 Senators voted against cloture on the conference report. I think it’s clear by now that the deal makes only minor changes to that conference report. The Senator from Pennsylvania, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee and primary proponent of the conference report in this body, was quoted yesterday as saying that the changes that the White House agreed to were “cosmetic.” And then he said, according to the AP, “But sometimes cosmetics will make a beauty out of a beast and provide enough cover for senators to change their vote.”

The Senator from Alabama said on the floor yesterday: “They’re not large changes, but it made the Senators happy and they feel comfortable voting for the bill today.” I agree with both of my adversaries on this bill that the changes were minor and cosmetic. I explained that at length yesterday, and no one else other than Senator Sununu came down to the floor to defend the deal.

Some of my colleagues have been arguing, however, that we should go along with this deal because the conference report, as amended by the Sununu bill, improves the Patriot Act that we passed four and a half years ago.

It’s hard for me to understand how Senators who blocked the conference report in December can now say that it’s such a great deal. It’s not a great deal – the conference report is just as flawed as it was two months ago. No amount of cosmetics is going to make this beast look any prettier.

That said, let me walk through some of the provisions of the conference report that are being touted as improvements to the original Patriot Act.

First, there’s the issue that was the lynchpin of the bill the Senate passed without objection in July of last year: the standard for obtaining business records under Section 215. Section 215 gives the government extremely broad powers to secretly obtain people’s business records. The Senate bill would have required that the government prove to a judge that the records it sought had some link to suspected terrorists or spies or their activities. The conference report does not include this requirement. Now, the conference report does contain some improvements to Section 215, at least around the edges. It contains minimization requirements, meaning that the executive branch has to set rules for whether and how to retain and share information about U.S. citizens and permanent residents obtained from the records. And it requires clearance from a senior FBI official before the government can seek to obtain particularly sensitive records like library, gun and medical records. But the core issue with Section 215 is the standard for obtaining these records in the first place.

Neither the minimization procedures nor the high level signoff changes the fact that the government can still obtain sensitive business records of innocent, law-abiding Americans. The standard in the conference report – “relevance” -- will still allow government fishing expeditions. That is unacceptable. And the Sununu bill does not change that.

Next, let me turn to judicial review of these Section 215 orders. After all, if we’re going to give the government such intrusive powers, we should at least people go to a judge to challenge the order. The conference report does provide for this judicial review. But it would require that the judicial review be conducted in secret, and that government submissions not be shared with the challenger under any circumstances, without regard for whether there are national security concerns in any particular case. This would make it very difficult for a challenger to get meaningful judicial review that comports with due process. And the Sununu bill does not address this problem.

So, what we have are very intrusive powers, very limited judicial review – and then, on top of it, anyone who gets a Section 215 order can’t even talk about it. That’s right – they come complete with an automatic, indefinite gag order. The new “deal” supposedly allows judicial review of these gag orders, but that’s just more cosmetics. As I explained yesterday, the deal that was struck does not permit meaningful judicial review of these gag orders. No judicial review is available for the first year after the 215 order has been issued. Even when the right to judicial review does finally kick in, the challenger has to prove that the government acted in bad faith. That is a virtually impossible standard to meet.

The last point on Section 215 is that the conference report, as amended by the Sununu bill, now explicitly permits recipients of these orders to consult with attorneys, and without having to inform the FBI that they have done so. It does the same thing with respect to National Security Letters. This is an important clarification, but keep in mind that the Justice Department had already argued in litigation that the provision in the NSL statute actually did permit recipients to consult with lawyers. So this isn’t much of a victory at all. Making sure that recipients don’t have to tell the FBI if they consult a lawyer is an improvement, but it is a minor one.

Next let’s turn to National Security Letters, or NSLs. These are the letters that the FBI can issue to obtain certain types of business records, with no prior court approval at all. The conference report does provide for judicial review of NSLs, but it also gives the government the explicit right to enforce NSLs and hold people in contempt for failing to comply, which was not previously laid out in the statute. And, in stark contrast to the Senate bill, the conference report also would require that judicial review be conducted in secret, and that government submissions not be shared with the challenger under any circumstances, without regard for whether there are national security concerns in any particular case. Just like with the Section 215 judicial review provisions, this will make it very difficult for challengers to be successful. And the Sununu bill does not address this problem.

Of course, NSLs come with gag orders, too. The conference report addresses judicial review of these gag orders but it has the same flaw as the Sununu bill does with regard to judicial review of the Section 215 gag rule. In order to prevail, you have to prove that the government acted in bad faith, which will be virtually impossible. And the Sununu bill does not modify these provisions at all.

Let me make just one last point on NSLs. The Sununu bill contains a provision that states that libraries cannot receive an NSL for Internet records unless the libraries provide “electronic communications services” as defined by statute. But that NSL statute already applies only to entities that satisfy that definition, so this provision essentially restates existing law. It is no improvement at all. Those cosmetics start to wear pretty thin once you look closely at this deal.

Let’s turn next to sneak and peek search warrants. As I laid out in detail yesterday, the conference report takes a significant step back from the Senate bill by presumptively allowing the government to wait an entire month to either notify someone that agents secretly searched their home, or get approval from a judge to delay the notification even longer. The Senate bill said the presumption should be one week, and I have yet to hear any argument, much less a persuasive argument, why that amount of time is insufficient. Core Fourth Amendments protections are at stake here. And once again, the Sununu bill does nothing to address this issue.

Now let me talk briefly about roving intelligence wiretaps under Section 206 of the Patriot Act. We haven’t discussed this issue much, in part because the conference report does partially address the concerns that had been raised about this provision. But the conference report language is still not as good as the Senate bill was on this issue. Unlike the Senate bill, the conference report does not require that a roving wiretap include sufficient information to describe the specific person to be wiretapped with particularity. The Sununu bill does not address this problem.

Supporters of the conference report say that it contains new four-year sunsets for three provisions: Section 206, Section 215 and the “lone wolf” expansion of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that passed as part of the Intelligence Reform bill in 2004. But sunsets are not enough. This reauthorization process is our opportunity to fix the problems with the Patriot Act. Just sunsetting bad law – again -- is hardly an improvement. And of course, neither the conference report nor the Sununu bill contains a sunset for the highly controversial National Security Letter authorities that were expanded by the Patriot Act, even though many of us said back in December that was an important change we wanted to see made.

I have the same response to those who point to the valuable new reporting provisions in the conference report. We must make substantive changes to the law, not just improve oversight.

I have laid out at length the many substantive reasons to oppose the deal. But there’s an additional reason to oppose cloture on the motion to proceed, and that’s because it appears the Majority Leader is planning to prevent Senators from offering and getting votes on amendments to the bill. I was on the floor for nine hours yesterday. I wasn’t asking for much – just a guarantee that I could offer and get votes on a handful of amendments relevant to the bill. There was a time when Senators didn’t have to camp out on the floor to plead for the opportunity to offer amendments. In fact, offering, debating and voting on amendments is what the Senate is supposed to be all about – that’s how we craft legislation. But my offer was rejected, and it appears the other side may try to ram this deal through without a real amending process.

I hope that even colleagues who may support the deal will oppose such a sham process. It makes no sense to agree to go forward without a guarantee that we will be allowed to actually try to improve the bill. And it is a discourtesy to all Senators, not just me, to try to ram through controversial legislation without the chance to improve it.

In sum, Mr. President, I oppose the sham legislative process that the Senate is facing here. And I oppose the flawed deal we are being asked to ratify. Notwithstanding the improvements achieved in the conference report, we still have not adequately addressed some of the most significant problems with the Patriot Act. So I must oppose proceeding to this bill, which will allow the deal to go forward. I cannot understand how anyone who opposed the conference report back in December can justify supporting it now. This deal was a beast two months ago and it hasn’t gotten any better-looking since then. I urge my colleagues to vote No on cloture.

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/02/2006216PA.html

[Armstead]

7. I can't condone that -- but there was at lease more debate over it

Remember how it slid through with almost nary a peep originally. This time, at least questions were raised, there were challenges and a "compromise" was required.

9-11 threw a big monkey wrench into the works. Made the whole nation crazy for a while, and we still haven;t regained our sanity....But in the Bigger Picture, I still believe the point of my original analysis.

Just remember -- Bush is at about 40 percent approval now.

[IndianaGreen]

8. No Democrats were involved in the "compromise"

The "compromise" was between the White House and two Republican senators. This is like saying that Hitler reached a compromise with the president of the Reichstag, Josef Goebbels.

Democrats will do what they did with the Alito filibuster, vote for cloture (the real vote that counted), and then vote against Alito (the cosmetic vote).

We have seen this movie before!

[Armstead]

9. My point is the bigger picture

Sure, the Democrats should have put up more opposition to the Patty Act this time around. But compare the debates and challenges that went on this time to the total silence and acquiescence by Dems (with a few exeptions) that passed that damn thing in the first place.

This is all a glass-half full or half-empty matter. I prefer to fous on the more positive aspects of it, without denying the problems that continue to exist.

In a long-term sense, the liberal/progressive side is finally being restored to mainstream politics.

In a shorter term sense, the post 9-11 Spell has been broken. Not totally, but a 40 percent approval rating versus the 70,80-90 that were in place after 9-11 shows that America is waking up.

[glitch]

10. I agree with you Armstead. People are waking up. It's taking us some time

to figure out what to do with our new awareness, but that is just natural prudence.
I think our species is mulling a paradigm shift, which is both scary and awesome.

[understandinglife]

14. Agree. Thank you.

And, it becomes a bit less daunting the more one recognizes how many others are awakening.


Peace.

[TahitiNut]

15. "People are waking up" just as the guillotine blade is released.

While I wholeheartedly agree that liberalism was decimated and marginalized by a "little bit pregnant" Democratic Party in the 90s, I see no prospect whatsoever that the American Body Politic has changed direction. Whether at breakneck speed or a sedate stroll, we have marched without interruption into an age of fascism, and I see absolutely no retreat in sight. This autocratization of America has proceeded monotonically for over 25 years. We are more than four decades away from a recovery to merely the state we were in the late 70s, and that assumes an immediate change of direction - which is completely out of the question. America will not see itself returned to an even moderately liberal democracy in the next four decades without catastrophic collapses in our nation, both social and economic. No baby boomer will ever again see a liberal democratic America ... nor will our children.

[Armstead]

18. Remember how rotten things were in the early 70's with Nixon

That was the same as now. But eventually we got him out.

Sure it's bigger and more entrenched now. But I disagree that we're just starting now. It's more a reassertion of the opposition to CONservatism that has been going on all along. Things that were ignored in the 90's, or were consigned to the fringes, have broken out into the mainstream and are at least being acknowledged and debated now on a larger basis.

The realistic end-goal is not the end of CONservatism or the elimination of their power. That's a conflict that will always exist. But it is a realistic and attainable goal to have an effective political counterpoint and set of social values that is an equal or stronger counterforce.

Maybe I'm being a Polyanna about it, but there's a lot more open and healthy debate and opposition on all levels now than at any time i can remember in the last 30 years.

[TahitiNut]

21. Yes, I remember very clearly. I also disagree it's comparable.

"bigger and more entrenched" is a vast understatement. The two biggest differences are in economic justice (and the corresponding tax policies) and the unleashed and unrestrained global corporatism that now drives 100% of our military adventurism (rather than maybe 60%). Roe v. Wade was probably coincident with liberalism's high-water mark. It's been downhill since then,

For those symptoms that're actually measurable, I regard the Gini Index, the Federal Minimu Wage, and the top marginal FIT brackets on earned and unearned income to be the most obviously telling. Each and every one reached a zenith in the 70s and has declined ever since, as seen in the charts below. Other measurables like per capita prison population would also bear this out, but I've not charted this.

I don't believe you've made a case for anything but the increasing realization among a minority of Americans about how "we're not in Kansas anymore." That realization has neither reached a majority nor has it precipitated a reversal of direction. Not even close, yet.











One further metric perhaps deserves note. It's entirely possible, imho, that when the ratio of corporate profits to employee compensation exceeds 15%, we're flirting with economic collapse. Most assuredly, it's an indication of vast inequities in our system.

[ChiciB1]

23. Sadly, I Feel Exactly As You Do...

Reclamation is a long long long long way down the road!

I don't think I'll live to see it!!

[Armstead]

25. I'm not being Polyanna about this

I remember sitting with some lefty friends at a gathering around 1977, and someone making the remark that: "The United States will become a fascist country within our lifetime."

It was a rather chilling comment, that seemed like hyperbolie, but close enough to the reality that was forming to have stuck in my mind. And in the decades that followed, so much seemd to bear his prediction out.

But the difference I see today is that people are waking up and are getting pissed. They have been for a while, about the very things you noted. Unfortunately, the Democrats have been so lame and tame that they failed to harness and clarify this for the population, so that anger and desire for change was stifled and subverted into cynicism and the "They're all bastards" mentality instead of mobility for actual change.

That's still largely true, but it is getting better, in terms of the dots being connected in the public. As I noted above, awareness of the obvious core problems of concentration of wealth and power that you and I probably agree on (if not in specifics) was totally ignored and stifled in the 80's and especially in the 90's. But today, and increasinbg number of people recognize that the Empoerors have no clothes, and it's becoming more acknowledged in the mainstream.

The key now, IMO, is not to give into our own cynicism, but to keep pushing to bring about real and unyielding pressure among the mainstream for positive social change and economic justice.

[dubya_dubya_III]

66. OBL won conclusively, the damage is already permanent

[radio4progressives]

29. exactly the point . Bush is at 40 - and still the Dems roll over..

what is that about? it's either about complete and utter insantiy, or it's about complete (and utterly unnecessary) capitulation.

either scenario does not a bright and optimismistc outlook, make.

[Somawas]

11. Just more self-loathing Vichy Democrats. nt

[dubya_dubya_III]

67. The comparison to Vichy is so, so accurate.

The only thing America ever needed to fear before was fear itself, now we have to fear the implications of a destabilising nuclear arsenal we proliferated into a rogue nation that our Christian Socialist dictatorship merely pretends to support.

[sandnsea]

16. I told you it had been confused a week ago

I told you if "Fix the Patriot Act" wasn't the focus, nobody would understand what was going on. We've already had extensions, why should anybody get worked up over that. Others are still stuck in "repeal" mode, which not even Russ Feingold is calling for. Over and over, that's the problem. A fuzzy unclear message and it's just as much the fault of the left as it is the centrists. Almost all Democrats support Feingold's amendments, but the issue was muddied up and the left needs to look themselves square in the face for it too.

[radio4progressives]

31. untrue... Feingold was trying to prevent MORE Draconian/Gestapo revisions

the Dems in Washington couldn't even see their way on that.

it's so pathetic, it is so insane, it does not bode well for the future, no matter election "results".

[sandnsea]

35. Fix the Patriot Act - that's what I said

The message wasn't simple, and wasn't right half the time because of the "repeal" rhetoric, so nobody understood it. That's what happened. It's what's been happening for 5 years.

[radio4progressives]

36. Ok.. I think MOST AMERICANS (L/C/R) deplored the Patriot Act in the first

Place - and I KNOW that progressives like Libertiarians wanted the entire act repealed, demolished, abolished -whatever language to say it no longer exists, it was never necessary in the first place.

but the war mongers of both parties that cling and promulgate the bogyman rubric because we are at "war with the "terra'ists" (bullshit) need the Patriot Act to defeat the "terra'ists" -(bullshit) -

Feingold like most sane Americans, always knew that all of this was bullshit - and that people in Washington see the PA as a great tool to use for a power grab - (both parties will benefit) at the expense of the people's liberties and the constitution.

Feingold knowing he couldnt' pursuade the power mongers in either party to reject this insanity entirely, but hoped he could at least appeal to a basic sense of American principles with people in our own party, but alas he has discovered much to his extreme disappointment that many of us share, we don't have principle leaders in our party.

that's essentially the bottom line.. It breaks my heart and it makes me weap, (sometimes sob hard) for what we've lost, it looks like forever.

My hat off to Feingold for fighting the good fight.

[sandnsea]

37. Feingold wasn't for repealing the Patriot Act

He said it again on Bill Maher last night. Most of the Patriot Act is necessary. Much of it was what Democrats had tried to get passed after OKC. So, no, most Americans don't deplore the Patriot Act. But that's what happens every time Democrats try to get an honest debate to change the objectionable sections, out come the extremists and they derail the discussion and so we end up with nothing getting done. Well, except for the SAFE bill that was passed last year that had the support of the ACLU and right wing groups as well. But the extremists cut that off too, all or nothing, repeal or scorch everybody in their path.

Here's what Feingold wrote in Dec. You will note he says "Fix the Patriot Act", but doesn't clearly articulate what still needs to be fixed. That's been the problem, that's still the problem. Lots of blather about the fascists, little concrete information for the average voter to grab on to.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/12/12/91452/335

[radio4progressives]

42. Sorry... he is very clear on his floor speech... but none of this matters

any more - our democracy is GONE GONE GONE GONE GONE and the

DEMOCRATS LET IT HAPPEN.

PERIOD

END OF FUCKING STORY.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

[sandnsea]

45. Bullshit

He didn't even clarify the problems last night. He's more interested in wasting time tooting his horn about not voting for it then getting the points out so people will want to help him get it fixed. Just like the LEFT didn't get the points out, because as usual, they're off in lalaland ranting about stuff that NOBODY else is even talking about. The LEFT fucked up, because they did and still are screaming about repealing it, filibustering it, opposing it; instead of the very fucking simple "FIX IT". When the message is that convoluted, the Democratic leadership is left with absolutely NOTHING to work with. The left has been doing this for years and they absolutely refuse to listen to anybody who tries to tell them what the problem is. That is on anything, from the environment to health care to trade to the war.

[radio4progressives]

76. Talk about Convaluted - Blaming the Left for all that's wrong is ...

absolutely priceless... bizzarro world to the max.

[The Magistrate]

60. Responsibiity Cannot Exist Without Authority, Ma'am

Saying "Our democracy is ended, and it's the Democrats' fault!" is nonesense. The Republucans hold Executive authority, and have the vores to press their measires in the Legislature. They are in charge of the national government, and they alone are responsible for what they do with that power. Blaming Democrats for what Republicans do is a distortion that is beneath you....

[dubya_dubya_III]

68. Words do have meaning

And it's the National Republican (Christian-Family Socialist) Party!

:-)

[radio4progressives]

75. the Elite-O Fiasco Revealed the extent of the Power Dems do possess

but chose to relinquish. It was never made so crystal clear to me until that moment. Apart from that, while it is technically true that the repukes are the party with the power to control the lions share of the legislation etc., the Dems in the Senate and the House can (if they only would)ban together and figure out creative means to shut down the government until there is accountability etc. They can do this, and they should everytime the repukes obfuscates and/or abdicate their fiduciary responsibilities, everytime they abdicate thier oversite responsibilities.

They can do things, out of the ordinary perhaps, but they figure what needs to be done - but they are too insulated and too comfortable, so they don't recognize the level of the crises our nation is in, they don't see the devasting effects - they don't see how every passing day without taking corrective action in some way, is making things worse and worse and worse.

Extra ordinary conditions call for extra ordinary measures.

They have much more power, much more authority than you or i have in seeing to justice and accountability being done.

Apparently, it may require living a life without priviledge in order to see what is right there for anyone with eyes to see.

Harken back all that you observed during the Elite-O fiasco, all the details, the time line of activities, learning how the votes for cloture were conducted and so on. then remember that final vote tally, and remember how shocking it was to see that less than 60 voted in favor of Alito's confirmation. 58 voted for him. harken back the meaning of less than 60 votes in favor of that appointment.

we could have defeated that nomination. and we should have.

there is no reasonable, rational, logical explanation for what occured. There is no defending it - and that confirmation was more than merely symbolic moment - it defined everthing with crystal clarity what it is we (the people in this country) are up against.

[radio4progressives]

28. Very optimistic... i hope you're right, but i don't see the evidence

What's going in washington with regard to the PA and Domestic Spying right now, tells a different, darker story.

there's no way once Fascistic laws enshrined in actual legal statutes, constitutional amendments, and "general agreement" within the ruling class, there is no turning back without a peoples revolt .

the media will make sure the people won't revolt, by muddying up the issues, or not reporting the story. and the so called two party system is permanently married with the blessings of SCOTUS.

What's going on in Washington, with essentially only Feingold fighting nearly as the lone voice in the wilderness to protect our rights, and the constitution from being shredded - it is impossible to drum up optimism.

The party bosses will have to come out in full swing to reverse everything this coming week - on monday - to committ acts of civil disobedience themselves if necessary in order to make this regime cease and desist the crimes they have committed on this country - and i no longer hold a flicker of hope that the Dems have any intention of doing what needs to be done NOW. (the notion that we have to wait until victory in '06 is a proven canard - this has proven to be untrue)

[Cascadian]

13. A broadbased united opposition is going to be the only way to stop this!

Of course it has gone beyond a left wing vs. right wing solution. It is about right vs. wrong. I think the good reason why some Democrats in the Senate and the House will not fight the Bushites or vote along to get along is because they have been given sweetheart money from the same lobbyists and corporations that buy the Neocons. Ironically, a lot of centrist and right-winger libertarian Republican types are just as angry as those of us who lean Democratic. It is getting to the point that everyone of us who give a damn about our rights and freedoms should seriously set aside any differences we have and unite. From Democrats, Socialists,"true" Republicans (not these phony Neocon types!), and Libertarians should come together and create a united front against these charlatans and fascists and peacefully remove them from the government.

Remember it is suppose to be a "government of the
people, by the people, for the people". Let it not parish from this Earth.



John

[dubya_dubya_III]

69. Nothing to unite around, because the Solution IS the Problem

THe Democratic Party has a complete absence of leadership. Former President Jimmy Carter is the closest thing we have to such, but even he is still supporting the unworkable invalid 'Solomons Judgement' of a totally unworkable and invalid "Two State Non-solution" to the critical issue of the unworkable, unjust, impractical, unsatisfactory and impossible division of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem among only two of the three great religions that regard it's fate as THE central, crucial and unavoidable crux of these implacable global religious socialist threats to world peace and security.

Only an accepted Religious Veto Triumvirate representative of Judaism, Christianity and Islam governing a third Independent City-State of Jerusalem, can protect the world from the hateful religious socialist superstitions of these three competing dogmatic socialist hate creeds, bent on destroying this entire planet to prove out their evil superstitions.

All those of us the world over who fairly believe in a growing, positive, constructive faith in The One Who Is Love Itself could easily unite about such a fair and just solution to this Satanic bloodthirsty, destructive, robbing, thieving, murderous global pissing match over 'religion'.

Peace can easily be achieved in this manner alone and none other!

[phusion]

17. Maybe it's time to put our efforts

into working towards secession, like the California secession movement.

California is the 8th or 10th (?) largest economy in the world. It has ports, an international border, a wide range of climates, and a large agricultural potential.

Or maybe it's a pipe dream. But have we *really* ever given it a serious consideration?

[pat_k]

19. The American contract -- our Constitution --went into breach on 6-Jan-01

The American Republic is long dead! . . .

As IndianaGreen exhorts us, citizens must fight back and do everything in their power to purge the Bush Syndicate from power and restore legitimate government.

Action Alert

One thing we can do is to put money and time -- whatever you can, even if that is just a few dollar and a few minutes -- behind candidates who are demanding Impeachment.

We must prove that fighting for Impeachment is not just the RIGHT thing to do, it is the WINNING thing to do.

Right NOW, you can take a few minutes to send email to Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, Laura Flanders, or other people who have BIG MEGAPHONES, and ask them to call on their listeners to support people like Carl Sheeler.

******* See this post for more *******

And don't forget Keith Olberman. the Sheeler for U.S. Senate has a fantastic "Impeach Bush" billboard -- great video to accompany a segment on one candidate's battle to Impeach Bush and restore legitimate government.

The Breach of the Constitution of the United States of America

Gore failed to keep his promise to "fight for you" when he folded in the face of the criminal Bush v. Gore edict handed down by the five black-robbed robbers on December 12th, 2000.

On January 6th, he had a duty "preserve the government" (see signature line) and enforce the intent of the law by objecting to the electors from Florida, and every other state that failed to give the voters confidence in the results of their elections.

He did not.

And thus, the American contract -- the Constitution of the United States of America -- was put into breach.

Like Gore. Kerry's dereliction of duty from Nov 2nd, 2004 to January 6th, 2005 compounded the breach (if that is possible).

We expect members of our armed services to risk life and limb to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Kerry and Gore took the same oath. Why should we expect less then them?

Given the nature of the Bush Syndicate, perhaps they faced more dire threats than ridicule as "sore losers" -- but whatever the risk, they abandoned their oath.

With their dereliction of duty they guaranteed unitary authoritarian rule by a criminal Syndicate and they put the American contract -- the Constitution of the United States of America -- into breach.


------------------
BTW, in regard to Kerry and Gore -- even in the face of their egregious failures, either man can redeem himself tomorrow by admitting mistake and declaring the truth: that We the People did not consent to the Bush presidency; that, in key states, tens of thousands more voters went to the polls to cast their vote for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004; that both the letter and intent of the law was violated to thwart the will of the voters and wrongfully appoint Bush electors.

[pberq]

22. Good points.

[IndianaGreen]

24. Impeachment is the only Constitutional avenue left open

At the electoral level, we must bring to light every instance of Republican manipulation of voters lists and we must fight any of their attempts to disenfranchise voters. We must also demand elections that are verifiable and auditable by impartial observers!

[pat_k]

32. We can break though our "leaders" denial

As we know all too well, a vast majority of our leaders are in denial -- stubbornly carrying on, "politics as usual."

Until we break through their denial, they will not be motivated to take up the fight to expose the fascists, drive them out of power, and punish them for their crimes.

One way to ease our task is to make "facing facts" a more attractive proposition by giving them a reason that penetrates their "horse race" mindset -- i.e., a concrete example of a campaign that is mobilizing people and raising real money BECAUSE the candidate is fighting for Impeachment.

If we get on the stick, we can make the Sheeler for U.S. Senate Campaign that example. (see link)

Although we may be able to "soften them up" by showing them the benefits of giving voice to our anger and demands, ultimately, we must challenge them to confront the truth in stark terms.

Most people find it difficult to confront denial of any kind. When you are dealing with officials in high office (or someone who represents them), it is particularly intimidating and even the best of us finds themselves "tip toeing" around the hard facts.

We saw examples of the "tip toeing" during the fight to stop Alito's nomination.

When people labeled Alito as "too conservative," "a threat to Roe" or "a threat to environmental protections," -- they were skirting the truth about

1. The "doctrines" he subscribes to (i.e., the fascist fantasies he invokes to convince himself -- and us -- that the Bush Syndicate crimes are not crimes) or


2. His role in the fascist invasion of our government (i.e., putting Alito on the Supreme Court is a GIANT leap forward in their march to render the Constitution we established for the United States of America permanently null and void, and make their vision of a Stalinist Unitary Authoritarian Executive a reality.)

Alito is a co-conspirator in their treasonous effort to nullify our constitution. When we took up the fight to reject him, we would have been far more effective if we had focused SOLELY on rejecting the lunacy of a Stalinist unitary authoritarian executive in America. "Piling on" other labels or arguments only muddies the water.

I don't mean to minimize the importance of protecting the environment or Roe. Certainly, if we render the planet uninhabitable, it won't much matter whether America was a dictatorship or a constitutional democracy. But, I think our first job is to restore legitimate authority. Americans can only have a role in creating rational global and domestic environmental policy if we have a functioning constitutional democracy capable of enacting and enforcing our collective will.

Facing Facts
<my shot at a summary of the reality Americans need to confront>

The Bush racketeers gleefully conspire to thwart the will of the American people to grab and consolidate the power they believe they have a right to. They view the rest of humanity as pawns to be manipulated to their own ends. They twist reality to justify the atrocities they commit in our name. For them, "We the People" means "We the 'Right' People; We the Powerful and Superior." As superior beings, great wealth is their natural reward. Since no law defined by others applies to them, any avenue that yields their rightful rewards is open for their exploitation.

Their crowning achievement (pun intended) was the theft of the American Presidency in 2001.

On January 6th, 2001, Congress counted the illegal electoral votes from Florida, and thus failed in its duty to preserve the government. Since that date, our Constitution has been in breach.

As long as we permit them to remain in power, our laws and regulations aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The fascist Bush syndicate refuses to enforce and flagrantly violates those laws. We must face facts and stop supporting the pretense of their legitimacy by offering plans to them, or trying to influence their agenda.

Our only option is to fight them at every turn, and ultimately force Bush, Cheney, and their co-conspirators out of power, and punish them for their crimes.

These are the truths we must confront our leaders with -- and we need to do it as citizen lobbyists, in face-to-face dialog, where we can challenge their rationalizations.

It's scary, but any of us can become a citizen lobbyist and ask to meet with the members of Congress who represent you (sample meeting request).

[radio4progressives]

34. impeachment actions can be taken now...

[Doctor_J]

77. If impeachments is the only hope, then we are doomed

which is probably true. There won't be any impeachment. If there were going to be, it would have happened after one of Smirk's first dozen or so felonies.

[radio4progressives]

43. it's over...

end of democracy, end of story... end of the american republic - and the Democrats alligned with the Repukes - i hope they all rot in hell.

[radio4progressives]

26. Excellent Post IG! Bravo! Bravo! (kicked and rated up!) ....

now who here DOUBT the veracity of IG's treatise?

[radio4progressives]

27. One Caveat IG...

I have a theory about the Elections fraud in future election cycles..

well actually I have several theories, but here in response to your wonderfully cogent and erudite treatise, i would posit the possibility that the the puppet masters might allow for DP victory, as cover to counter the prevailing understanding that at least two elections were rigged and stolen. (if not three)

And don't think for a moment this can't be pulled off..

but deals have had to made with prospective candidates, in order to placate on every single highly egregious action this administration has taken, while our own party leadership went along.

From the iraq war, to domestic spying - the dems have allowed, are allowing totalitarianism to reign unchecked - only a handful of half hearted, mealy mouthed whines of protest long after the dastardly deeds are done, while at the same time enable these bastards to enshrine in legistlation (ala Patriot Act and the Reauthorization etc etc etc).

Everything that has transpired by both parties, is proof positive that Nader was always right after all.

[Greyhound]

30. You've done it now, you used the 'N' word without the required disparaging

commentary. Are you stupid? The whole mess our country is in now is all Ralph's fault! :sarcasm:

[radio4progressives]

33. LOL!

:rofl:

[Donna Zen]

38. I agree

That if they want to keep the sheep asleep, there are people with a "D" after their names who will benefit. This is not a farfetched idea. In fact, to think otherwise one would have to be as stupid as they think we are.

BTW, is everyone calling California on Tuesday?

IT'S ONLY 5 CALLS.

Senator Don Perata (Chair) D
[phone]
Senator Jim Battin (Vice-Chair) R- but approachable
[phone]
Senator Roy Ashburn R- approachable also
[phone]
Senator Debra Bowen D
[phone] (Yes, call her too so she can log the support calls, it's important since it allows her to back her position from the grassroots.)
Senator Gilbert Cedillo D
[phone]


SECOND- What to say:

Be quick, be polite, be professional. Here's your message: ask for "Rules Committee support for subpoenas of election industry and certification insiders who won't otherwise inform the Elections Committee as to what's going on".
The key people: Diebold head programmers, federal testing labs (Ciber, Wyle) that repeatedly certified this stuff, voting system examiners who took taxpayer money, spent hours on "security exams" on systems your 12-year old sister can hack, then repeatedly recommended for certification.
This is about volume of calls logged. Not only should YOU make calls, but this needs to go out to your list.
Polite, professional, short clear message, FIRM is what works. Read background info above.
Once subpoenas go out, that will have nationwide impact. Never before have the key witnesses had to answer questions under oath in public. That will unravel the garment, and we are so close. Demonstrate that the citizenry of America wants those guys compelled to testify, with subpoena power, under oath.

[radio4progressives]

40. thanks for putting this out...

words cannot describe the anger, the frustration, the utter fucking rage i feel right now about this..

[Donna Zen]

44. We need threads posted about this starting on Monday

I just don't think I'll be home. I'll try. This is very important. Call. Note: Hillary recently called for 100% electronic voting. Now there are people here who will tell me to leave the Democratic party for posting that. WTF. At least they don't want the door to hit me.

[Donna Zen]

39. Daniel Webster:

Daniel Webster on the occassion of the one hundredth anniversary of George Washington’s birthday.

Other misfortunes may be borne or their effects overcome. If disastrous war should sweep our commerce from the ocean, another generation my renew it. If it exhaust our Treasury, future industry may replenish it. If it desolate and lay waste our fields, still, under a new cultivation, they will grow green again and ripen to future harvests. It were but a trifle even if the walls of yonder Capitol were to crumble, if its lofty pillars would fall, and its gorgeous decorations be all covered by the dust of the valley. All these might be rebuilt. But who shall reconstruct the fabric of demolished government? Who shall rear again the well-proportioned columns of constitutional liberty? Who shall frame together the skillful architecture which unites national sovereignty with State rights, individual security, and public prosperity? No. If these columns fall, they will be raised not again. Like the Colosseum and the Parthenon, they will be destined to a mournful, a melancholy immortality. Bitterer tears, however, will flow over them than were shed over the monuments of Roman or Grecian art. For they will be the remnants of more glorious edifice than Greece or Rome ever saw: the edifice of constitutional American liberty.

In short: once it's gone, it will not be back.

[MrBenchley]

41. LOL!

"Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures, and this is one of those times in which we face an unpalatable choice: resistance or exile! "
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[wyldwolf]

46. "The Diatribe of Pendejo The Revolutionary"

Good title, yes?

[Capn Sunshine]

47. There is a Mexican saying that is apropos here

At a wedding the menfolk would say "ya tiene su pendejo"
Literally, " now she's got her dummy"

Fascist Corporate power weds the DLC
Ya tiene su Pendejo.

Thanks for the reminder, boys.
Enjoy your time on the lap.

[wyldwolf]

48. yeah, there is another Mexican saying appropriate here:

No le estés dando vuelta al malacate porque se te enredan las pitas.
Literally, "Things shouldn't be made more complicated than the way they really are."

Thanks for the reminder, boys.
Enjoy your time on the lap.

[Capn Sunshine]

49. apropos indeed

It's quite simple- take money from the fascists, and you are in league with them.

How could it be any simpler than THAT?

[MrBenchley]

55. Some people are about as simple as it gets....

"take money from the fascists, and you are in league with them."
Does that include supermarket coupons?

[Capn Sunshine]

58. Are the fascists giving out coupons?

because they ARE giving out millions, to the DLC, demonstrably, documented, irrevocably, and conclusively.

It just depends on whether you characterize them as such.

Justify the Bradley Foundation funding the DLC to me.

I'm all ears.

[IndianaGreen]

59. Rightwing Bradley Foundation funding the DLC?

The New Black Strategy was first implemented through the political network centered on the Bradley Foundation, of Milwaukee, which is author of much of the Republican Party's social policy positions and funds the network's most aggressive think tanks: Manhattan Institute, American Enterprise Institute, Hoover Institute, Hudson Institute and other, satellite outfits. Bradley works closely with the Olin Foundation, the Walton Family Fund, the Scaife Foundation and other, traditional bankrollers of right-wing causes.

As political organs, these foundations are capable of causing many millions of dollars of cash contributions and other vital electioneering resources to be funneled into targeted contests. They are also extremely influential among the mass media.

Previously, these foundations' direct, Black-related activities were largely limited to funding compliant African American academics, and to subsidizing single-person front organizations such as Ward Connerly's California operations and Robert Woodson's Center for Neighborhood Enterprise. Attempts to legitimize Black Republican vehicles such as the Center for New Black Leadership proved ineffective among the Black populace at-large.

However, the campaign for school vouchers, under the direction of the Bradley Foundation, introduced white conservatives to the possibilities of grassroots and electoral action under non-partisan cover in the heart of urban America. The Hard Right had found an issue that, if generously financed, would make available to it significant numbers of potential minority office-seekers and ambitious local activists. These "stealth" candidates and operatives would not be burdened with the Republican taint.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/12_trojan_horse_watch.html

Third Way Foundation
From SourceWatch

The Third Way Foundation, formerly known as the Progressive Foundation, is an umbrella organization of New Democrats. The Progressive Policy Institute, the affiliated think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), is a project of the foundation.

Political Funding
As Third Way Foundation

Bradley Foundation

Third Way Foundation Inc. is funded in part by the Bradley Foundation and received $225,000 between 2000 and 2002, "to support the Progressive Policy Institute."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Third_Way_Foundation

[MrBenchley]

70. None are pure enough to stand with thee.....

[MrBenchley]

54. EXCELLENT title....

[IndianaGreen]

57. They have their Freepers and we have our Dreepers

They share the same disdain for liberalism and the New Deal.

[MrBenchley]

71. Yup... "progressive purists" hate hate hate Democrats

And have nothing but revisionist history and horseshit.

I got no disdain for liberalism. I got disdain for the sort of specimens who sit around trying to whitewash loonies like Cynthia McKinney and Noam Chomsky while bashing pretty much every sane Democrat anyone's ever heard of.

[KoKo]

50. A "POPULIST/HUMANIST Revolution....is the ONLY ANSWER

And, if it could be explained to most Americans the time might be ripe for such a Revolution.

I think you are left of me on this..but, I love the Lefties..still I'm more a Populist/Revolutionist than a true Socialist. I have a few differences but am ready to join with anyone on the FAR LEFT in fighting against the dismanteling of our Culture/Society/Monetary Structure/Human Rights/Dignity/Right to protect our Old and Young/Right to Protect our Property/Right to Live and Breathe Clean Air and Drink Clean Water....Yadda, Yadda...but, the time has come to STAND UP on the LEFT and make our voices HEARD IN UNISON...despite whatever differences could be there that could be "ironed out" later on.

We need to FIGHT BACK NOW...

[radio4progressives]

80. How About "Bring Back the Constitution" party? or Constitution Party?

see what you think:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x478858

[CarlSheeler4U]

51. Sheeler - The Point Is to Dig In, not to withdraw.

While many of your points are on the money and there is fraud, we can allow the power of numbers work to our advantage. Fatalistic thinking is exactly the erosion of power that an amoral authority relies upon. Our campaign and many like ours relies on people who are willing to come together in opposition. The enemy is complacency.

Carl
Sheeler for US Senate
www.carlsheeler.com

[dusmcj]

52. identify the new polarities please

identifying the Bush administration as the entity to oppose begs the question, ok, who's opposing them ? You say partisan solutions are outdated. I assume this refers to the left-right, Dem-Rep duality. OK. But if you're opposing someone, you implicitly have two parties, and 'partisan' simply means (before words become sullied by politicians) advocacy for one side in a conflict. So, Who are we (I'll mean 'we' to refer to people who think like those who post here) going to form a non-partisan confederation with in order to oppose these people ?

One hopes you are not positing a future where the success of the abusive and the incompetent is a given and we must find solutions that act from that initial condition. Only their failure is a given, because historically their methods are proven to be inadequate. So, what solutions, and made with whom, do you propose to neutralize these socially conservative and economically liberal vermin ?

[arendt]

61. Anybody who wants the REAL Constitution back is the opposition to Bush

Just give me a Supreme Court that doesn't interfere in Presidential Elections,
a Congress that balances the budget without cutting the heart out of social
programs, a defense budget that is at least 50% smaller than the current
wartime disgrace, some real oversight of the $30 Billion Black budget, from
which Duke Cunningham was bribed.

And give me an Executive Branch that obeys the law instead of ignoring it.

How's that for a non-partisan program?

arendt

[arendt]

62. And Veterans opposed to torture and group punishment...

And lawyers for the restoration of Habeus Corpus.
And scientists for honest science, instead of corporate-funded lies.
And parents who want their kids to have a chance in life, other than
joining the military or dealing meth.
And religious people other than fundamentalist neo-Christians who
want freedom for their religions too.

I say we simply walk away from all the existing parties and form a
Government of Constitutional Restoration. You know, sort of like
"original intent", only without the cynical hypocrisy.

arendt

[IndianaGreen]

64. We must treat Bush regime as we would a hostile foreign occupation power

In many ways, the Bush regime has acted as a foreign occupier would. It had set aside American civil liberties, it has suspended a good chunk of the Constitution, it has brought torture, secret detentions and trials to our land, it has control over the media.

The Bush regime has imposed an ideology that is alien to American values is that more in tune with the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Fascists in Mussolini's Italy, and the Nazis in Hitler's Germany.

[dubya_dubya_III]

72. We need to offer a new leader with a new solution

The Three State Solution is the key to ending this costly violent nightmare.

The peace dividends alone are worth the risk, It's time for some new thinking, new answers and new leadership that put this 60 year old global religious tragedy behind us all.

[dusmcj]

73. what is the 3-state solution ? tx nt

[dusmcj]

53. BTW the lesson drawn from the Holocaust was

that initial violent opposition to genocide might have changed the course of events. The lesson was that instead of continuing to think like members of a civil society when confronted with opponents who clearly did not, the onus on parties under threat from an unethical opponent is to recognize the threat, and identify the point when the other side has clearly suspended the rules of civil intercourse soon enough, and respond appropriately to the extent possible. I have read more than one analysis that said that if the acquisition of arms during the Warsaw ghetto uprising had happened several years earlier, and on a wide scale, it is possible that the Nazis would have been stopped in their tracks as far as genocide was concerned, and that in fact the Third Reich might have descended into internal chaos. Unfortunately in that case, not enough people realized what needed to be done soon enough. Let's not let that happen here. Only one way: Of, By, For.

[IndianaGreen]

56. Like many Americans today, Germans did not care about "them"

"Them" being defined as anyone that was outside the circle of people they cared about. They didn't want to bother with things that did not impact them directly. Nazis beating on homosexuals? So what, I am hetero. Nazis beating on Jews? I believe in Jesus. Nazis killing the impaired? No one in my family!

We don't stand a chance of changing things when so many people have already embraced conservatism, and stand silently when more onerous legislation is enacted. But then, who cares that the targets of the legislation are varmints such as gays wanting the same rights as everyone else!

:sarcasm:

[Blue_Tires]

63. ttt

excellent points

[radio4progressives]

74. check this out...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=476793&mesg_id=476793

[Doctor_J]

78. Great post, Iggy

well reasoned.

I think that "we" let this happen because of two major boodoggles. First, our ignorance of history has finally served to finish off the Republic. The ignorant hoi polloi in the heartland believe that we aren't a fascist state until there are tanks rolling down main street. This is of course nonsense. Hitler was completely entrenched as der Fuhrer long before he started exterminating Jews, and in fact long before he attacked Poland. The nation's Limbeciles don't have a clue that the last 8 years in the US are strikingly similar to the pre-war yers of the 3rd Reich, and that it is just a matter of time until the more famous parts of the Nazi reign manifest here.

Second, the single most crucial and least discussed factor in our demise is the media. It has now been close to 15 years that they have been nothing but ultra-RW propaganda organs. While it's unlikely that the mid-Americans would have caught on to *'s imitation of Hitler without their help, it is beyond debate that they have been indespensible in promoting the galloping fascism of the GOP, and in squelching every attempt to restore democracy. But hindsight is 20-20, and the hate radio folk WILL be called to account for their treason somewhere down the line.

[CarlSheeler4U]

79. They'll have to pry my belief in American Democratic Spirit from

my cold dead hands.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/19/1730/42036

Carl
Sheeler for US Senate
www.carlsheeler.com

Be a patriot and pass the bulletin board link to every person you know and every blog you can and ask the same from them, too.

[NativeTexan]

81. Excellent, however sad but true post..