Something just hit me about Nov elections.(why Dems let spying go)..

[HardWorkingDem]

Does anyone think that maybe the Dems are playing a wait out the clock strategy for the November elections?

Earlier this month I took a beating for pointing out that Dem moderates stressing to be careful about the domestic spying in case Bush was successful in selling it as a "terrorist surveillance program" might be on to something. Right now it looks like Bush might have done this and Dems have sort of backed off a bit.

What I'm wondering if they are doing this on purpose and are playing a "play out the clock" ,"rope a dope" and "give them enough rope to hang themselves" strategy all rolled into one in thoughts of taking back Congress in the Nov elections. And then if that happens, then the real fireworks will start.

Just something to ponder.

[punpirate]

1. Since the 2006 primary season is upon us...

... perhaps not saying anything has more to do with not upsetting any incumbent applecarts. That's as reasonable a supposition as saying that the Democrats are simply biding their time for the best opportunity.

There's no evidence of strategy that I can see, one way or another. The only dopes that have been roped to date are Democratic voters voting for Bush, from the appearance of the past three elections (always with the proviso that, yes, maybe they stole it--but, if they stole those elections, why are the Democrats not saying so?)

[jackbourassa]

2. There are a lot of things that we can wait them out on...

However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep up the pressure. After we win at least one House in Congress this November, a lot of things will change.

The only thing that bothers me is when Democrats give in and give Republican talking points as reasons why.

[RagingInMiami]

3. No

Haven't we learned by now that the dems are just not that slick nor aggressive?

[sendero]

9. That's what I was thinking..

... time after time after time we've been told that things are happening "behind the scenes", that there is a "strategic plan in play" that we should "be patient".

Naw. Time and again we've found that the Dem senate is a handful of good hardworking Dems surrounded by lackeys, suckups and gravy-train riders.

I have no reason to think this time will be any different. See, IMHO, most of our leaders care about one thing and one thing only "am I going to be reelected to my cushy-ass perk-ridden job".

As long as they can answer "yes" to that question, they could give two shits where the country is heading.

[Lexingtonian]

4. nah, too complicated

Bush won reelection on two things- his performance on 'fighting terrorism' and swing voters giving social conservatism one more shot to prove itself. They gave Republicans four more seats in the Senate for the latter part.

The social conservatism thing parlayed into the status quo Roberts appointment and the one vote conservative shift created via appointment of Alito. Now Alito has to do his part and screw something up.

The credit given on 'fighting terrorism'- gratitude for a presentable and fairly dignified domestic political response after '9/11', basically- parlays into forgiveness of a sort for the FISA violations for Dubya and the Plame leak for Cheney. Assuming, of course, that these things did no harm beyond that which we know. And this credit has also made for a certain amount of forgiveness for the screwup involving New Orleans...though this one festers badly. But if these things spill, if real people were truly unduly damaged by the things people did on Bush's orders, then they'll reignite.

So Bush's "political capital" of 2004 is expended by these things.

Congress really doesn't have an active role or responsibility in dealing with terrorism. It's the executive branch's responsibility. Mongering on that 'issue' won't be very effective or motivating. Republicans only do it because they have nothing else their midterm electorate is strongly agreed upon; it's problematic in that it requires their candidates to claim full agreement with and endorsement of Bush. In parts of the country where Bush has already lost a lot of Republicans and is under the 38-40% level needed to tie or prevail in midterms, the 'issue' won't save Republican Congressfolk- Democrats will use Bush as a wedge. So 'terrorism' won't save Congressfolks in districts and states Kerry won. But it might do just enough in the swing Red States and Red districts Democrats need to win for majorities in Congress.

[Golden Raisin]

5. No.

No. You're giving them WAY too much credit. Just their usual dithering, disorganized, self-destructive, emasculated selves. A once-important party has imploded into decadence. While our Constitution is being spat on and destroyed by the neocons and the country turning into a fascist state, the Democrats just can't get it together to forge an effective, united front against BushCo. They are too busy sabotaging their own, like Hackett, when they should be HAMMERING the administration about Abu Ghraib, spying without warrants, no-bid contracts for Halliburton, the insane deficit, Bush's inability to capture his bogeyman Osama, etc. There are still plenty of Americans who are shocked, horrified and offended at all of the above. They need an organized party to channel all that energy. Unfortunately, we just cannot count on the Dems to provide that sort of leadership anymore. Rove, Norquist and the Republicans may be unspeakable scum, but they are highly organized, funded, effective and have their act together.

[Savannah Progressive]

6. I would join with the others in saying No, and add a few thoughts

Many of the other posts touched upon a few of my thoughts, but not all of them, nor the historical context in which we can examine the performance of our elected leaders of this party.

First, in each Election year, our elected become more and more like Repugnik lite for example, a few months ago they celebrated "killing the PATRIOT Act" and now voted for Cloture on an amendment to that act, which they later approved an extension for so they could go on vacation.

We watched in 2004, waiting for Senator Kerry and the Dem's to get tough, and fight back. They ignored the Swift Boaters, and it hurt them, badly. They ignored and failed to respond to the claims of the Repugniks on talk radio, and on Faux News, and it hurt them. More people saw Senator Kerry as a Liberal, then saw him accurately as a Moderate. We kept waiting for the fight to start, praying that Senator Kerry would become as impassioned as we have seen him in the past, and it didn't happen. We last saw Senator Kerry in that passion defending Representative Murtha from the Repugnik attacks, yet we didn't see that passion in response to the Swift Boat liars for Repugniks. Finally, CBS put out some information on Bush's national Guard story, and almost fought for it, yet folded when faced with a few loony Right Wing Bloggers.

We see all the opportunities, we see all the chances, we even do the work for them, doing the research, connecting the dots, linking to dozens of articles. We present current and retired experts in the fields, who agree with our synopsis, and we are ignored utterly. How many times have we done the research, adding to each others information, coming up with a complete picture of any event, or theory? Do we ever see anything from our elected leaders in Washington? They might mention the research, the facts we have developed in passing in an interview. They don't even give us the common courtesy of disproving anything that may be inaccurate.

Instead, WE are left defending the rights of the many who are trampled upon, because our Washington DC elected people are busy denouncing the process, instead of denouncing the actions, if they denounce anything.

The spying of the White House on every individual who get's an e-mail, or a phone call, is just the latest of the marshmallow spined elected leaders collapses. Not one of them has, to the best of my knowledge, called on the program to be shut down. Not one of these cowards has demanded that the NSA cease and desist from any and all wiretaps without proper court authorization. How much time must we allow to go by before it's stopped? Is it going to be a perpetual campaign issue? Will the next Presidential Candidates be asked questions on if they plan on continuing this program? The way we are moving on this, or not moving, the Presidential Debates of 2012 is likely to have questions concerning the dedication of the candidate to continue this program, even if we win this year, and in 08.

We take every issue, every scandal, and instead of bashing those responsible, we promptly fold those cards, and toss them away. This disgust at watching our elected officials fold every single time, to the corrupt Repugniks, is beyond frustrating, well and truly into intolerable.

Folding time and time again, on Roberts, Alito, the PATRIOT Act, The Budget, Torture, Guantanamo Bay, and I could go on and on and on. Most of us who believe in the Constitution could name many examples. It wouldn't matter, because they have already folded on this one, and we know they will fold on every issue.

[Disturbed]

7. The Democratic Party used to be the "opposition" party.

Now they are the "go along to get along" party.

America will soon be a 3rd World Fascist Police State. The Dim Party is complicit in this event.

[HardWorkingDem]

14. To be fair to Kerry......

though hindsight is 20/20, looking back at the start of the Swiftboating, I can understand why he didn't immediately fire back at those quacks - he had the truth on his side and never thought those bastards would succeed in doing that. (This is discussed in the election year specials in both Time and Newsweek printed after the election).

Sadly, this mistake was learned too late.

[SnookieDog]

8. My guess: polls show the issue as cutting both ways.

It plays extremely well to the "give me liberty or give me death" voting block and, conversely, it also plays well to the "if Osama is talking to someone in the U.S., we should know who and why" sheeple. So, on the one hand, the issue greatly energizes the first group to declare domesting spying as illegal and to rightly call for Shrub's impeachment, while on the other hand proving to the second group that the first group can't be trusted on national security issues. So, each politician will play the issue depending on whether more of his constituents are in the first camp or the second. It's basically a red state - blue state thing.

[sendero]

10. Polls schmolls..

.. the polls reflect what Americans are told. The Dem side of this argument is so poorly presented, it's no wonder that the average American thinks it is ok.

We let them frame this debate once again as "if Al Queada calls someone in the US, we want to know about it".

When the truth is if it was Al Quaida calling, the FISA judges would be spewing out warrants like they were lotto tickets.

But I've listened in the media and I never hear an argument even half as good as I could personally make that there is something rotten in these claims.

[SnookieDog]

12. Reality check: WE have a message problem.

WE should be the ones saying that "if Osama calls, WE're going to listen too. The difference is, within 72 hours, WE're going to let a FISA judge know what we did". However, some how . . . some way, the wingnut spin machine framed the issue before we could get traction with ours. It's depressing that the right is so good at coming up with effective verbal pictures that turn truth on it's head. The "terrorist surveillance program" is but the latest example of how they made an illegal act sound so patriotic. The "death tax" was another. We just don't seem to have the same linguistic capabilities. Our message often seems a bit clunky. But, I think help is on the way with the growth of our own think tanks to develop better ways of framing our viewpoints.

[sendero]

13. Well....

.. exactly. This should not be a difficult issue to frame, and yet I have yet to hear one Dem do so. It's pathetic.

[HardWorkingDem]

15. Yes, I agree....and it doesn't help that

the American people are such willing participants in the eating of bullshit.

But we have to maintain some sort of hope and I wonder if behind closed doors, the Washington Dems are saying to themselves that the Bushies are imploding and that their pollsters are telling them how good it looks for November and that they can see the writing on the wall when it comes to Bush and his "terrorist surveillance program". (Jesus. Look at the use of words and the immediate meaning in those three words. Just break them down and imagine the first thought of what each of them means to the mind. To be honest, we have to agree that the person that phrased that is a diabolical and crafty pro).

Call it laziness, smart, idiotic, dreaming on a sunny day or anything at all - I just want to think that our people are up to something brilliant somewhere.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. They've been "waiting it out" for 25 years

What will it take?

:banghead:

[Warren Stupidity]

16. If so they have been playing this strategy since like 94 or so.

It is the sarcastic "keeping your powder dry" comment/meme you will see here quite frequently. The DC Democrats are always twice too clever, outthinnking their opponents by convincing themselves that 'this is not the fight to fight' every damn time, not getting that as they have no power, as they have no control over the media, as they cannot frame the issues or control the debate, it is never going to be the right time. Our leadership refuses to lead, our party stands for nothing. Our hope is that somehow they will win in 06: just because the other party is such a rotten bunch of arrogant incompetent corrupt vile asshats, and that then suddenly our leaders will grow spine. I'm not putting all of my eggs in that basket, I completely expect that if there is a congressional turnover in 06 the War Party will be able to divide the Democratic Party and continue to rule.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. There is nothing happening behind the scenes

in fact we have a bunch of traitors to the Constitution on BOTH parties. and it will take you and me and anybody who cares to make a stink out of this. Then again, Murica is too happy, too fat and too content, so it deserves the fascism it is getting from BOTH parties.