Islamo-phobia

[Brundle_Fly]

discuss.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I have it

[DainBramaged]

2. Why, my neighbors are Islamos from the island of Moe

Got something against the Moe's? Larry would be pissed.

[Wordie]

3. Our media, for decades, has only brought us images of the extremists,

who don't represent the majority of Muslims. That's the reason for it, imho. It would be as if all someone in another country ever knew of the US was based on images of Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of foreign leaders, and other such nonsense.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. That is very true!

A lot of people in American first heard the word "Muslim" when they heard about Elijah Mohammed and the Black Muslims, Mohammed Ali, etc. That was the sixties, and for those not around then, there was a lot of fear of blacks and this fear was projected upon Black Muslims. Unless you lived in a university town or a large city, it was unlikely that you ever met a Muslim. And the way of Islam that I know is that you quietly go about your business, not making a big splash. You try and blend in, be fair and honest and kind to your fellow people, because that is what the faith teaches you to do.

So Bush comes along with his lap dogs in the MSM. They stress only the fanatics, and only when the fanatics become violent towards Westerners and Western values (how many here know that Sufis have been persecuted by these same fanatics for years?). Couple that with the very nature of Islam to not make waves (Sufis at least are forbidden to seek converts), and you can see why Islam has a bad rep with many.

[sui generis]

4. religio-phobia

my phobia is bigger than yours.

Same rules apply:

I'm not scared of the religion or the adherents of any religion who view the religion as a collection of ideas through which to view the world. Those people are generally very tolerant of diversity, and recognize that faith is subjective and not universal. They generally don't proselytize, get involved in politics or try to impose their worldviews of normative morality upon the masses.

However they are in the extreme minority. Any religion that teaches you to value this life marginally less because there is an afterlife shortchanges all the rest of us who are doing the best we can in the here and now without fear of hell or striving for the reward of heaven, but just because.

Religion is a set of symbols that is easily confused with its referents, and like absolute power attracts people who can be absolutely corrupted, religion attracts people who easily confuse the symbols of reality with the literal reality of our everyday world.

I think most intelligent religious people believe in the "ideas" of religion, not in it's literal representations. Islam is no different. It is subject to clerical interpretation, indistinguishable from law and religious "fatwa" by its very community structure, and so is more easily abused and misused in the real world.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. You get it!

Religion is the outer aspect of spirituality, and should be used as a guideline. As you said, religion, and the temptation of power that can come from appearing to be a religious leader attracts a lot of scam artists. What I have noticed in my experience is that those who are really close to God don't make a lot of noise. But if you sit with them, they can help you get there....really amazing, because it is a gift given freely, without a request for anything in return.

[Radio_Guy]

5. Repubba-phobia

The fear that the Rs will remain in power and put this country in the worst depression any country has ever seen.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Well, I hope no one here is afraid of me

:)

Seriously, I believe that there has been an effort to make sure that people in America know a lot about Islamic extremists and nothing much about the religion of Islam or Muslims. I have met people who actually think that "Allah" is another God than the Christian God, or even an idol. I have heard of others who have the notion that Muslims wish to force others to convert to Islam, and others who think that every Muslim believes the same way. I have also had folks tell me that the "leader" of the Muslims should stop all the violence, and that American Muslims should "go back to those backward countries to live".

Demonizing Islam fits right into Bush's agenda of fear, and also, ironically, helps the fanatics in Islam as well, who are, as we speaking, violently silencing the moderate and liberal Islamic voices (see Religion/Theology thread: Sufis in Iran under attack).

One reason I have talked so much on threads dealing with Islamic issues on GD, such as the cartoon threads, is to inform folks here at DU. As has been said on this thread, Islam is like other faiths in that it is diverse and that there are Muslims who are tolerant and willing to get along with others without demands that everything be done their way.

What I would really like is a dialog with other progressive people of faith so that, perhaps, we can join together to find a way to change the hearts and minds of people and stop the madness that hides within the excuse of practicing a religion (while in reality not following the tenets of faith at all).

[TallahasseeGrannie]

11. I am not afraid of you

but I am afraid of the current clash of cultures that is being exploited and flamed on both sides of the issue, and I am afraid of where that is going to lead.

I have many Muslim students (university town) and really have no islamophobia per se, about "real" people. Just the ones I see in the box in the living room.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Turn off the box

Having seen the film "Pallywood" about how some Palestinian "battle" footage is actually staged, I wonder how much of what the TV says is going on is really going on.

[NoFederales]

8. Part of any "war" scenario is the extremism that is whipped

up in the form of propaganda. Islamo-phobia is an intended consequence by our government to de-sensitize us to the atrocities that we will committ in the name of US interests. The Nazi's were once portrayed as baby-killing Huns. That is a really horrifying aspect about propaganda that most folks seem unaware about.

I am concerned about extremism and what it might prompt from ANY crazy person, not just our so-called enemy, but I don't sit around and worry about it.

NoFederales

[NativeTexan]

10. I have it TOO.....they don't wear signs, but they have a ......

.....history of killing Americans on OUR SOIL!

[Wordie]

14. But if that's your criteria...

Wouldn't you also have to become an "Ameri-phobic" or "Christo-phobic" too? Because after all, there have been people like Tim McVeigh and others who have done a lot of damage, right here on our own soil too.

The people who perpetrated 9/11 don't represent Islam, any more than McVeigh represents Christianity or America.

I also abhor the violence, but I know it doesn't represent the average Muslim person. We need to build bridges, in order to strengthen the moderate Muslims, so that the violent ones are contained. When we see all Muslims as the same, and feel and express hatred toward all of them, the moderates have nowhere to go, and it strenghtens the hand of the extremists. The extremists on both sides want a clash of cultures; those among us who are reasonable and enlightened people must stop them.

[NativeTexan]

15. Actually the 9/11 thugs USED Islam as their excuse, because....

.....like all suicide bombers and such, they are small minded enough for someone to convince them to do something that the teachers themselves wouldn't do.

As for McVeigh, that makes me NEO-CONphobic!! He is the ULTIMATE member of the Bush Fascist Party.

The so-called "Christians" that bomb abortion clinics. Same fascists as McVeigh.

But the BIGGEST attack EVER on American soil was done by "Islamists Terrorists". OBL and friends!! I know that ALL Arabs aren't bad. But you don't know which ones are. Are you buying milk at a corner convienence store and supporting the terrorism on America at the same time? Don't know. But can you say for certain that you are not? It is a phobia. I am not advocating putting them in internment camps or anything.....I just don't trust what I can't decide is safe.

[Wordie]

16. But have you ever considered...

that some of what drives the violence is those drawing similar conclusions about Americans...

I am ashamed of what happened at Abu Ghraib, for instance. There are extremists who have used Abu Ghraib to recruit more terrorists. They are using the same sort of logic, in painting all Americans as evil because of the actions of a small minority.

I am not a regular poster there, but maybe you should visit the Islamic group, here at DU, and chat with a few Muslims, to find out what they think. It might be an eye-opener. Knowledge is the best antidote to fear, and that's what a phobia is.

Here's the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=359

You could always lurk there for a while, if you don't want to post. I visit every so often. They seem like quite a nice group of people to me.

[NativeTexan]

17. OH, I have no doubt.....

...that you are correct in this matter. I also know that leaving American troops on their holy ground in Saudi Arabia is the main fuel behind 9/11 and remaining in Iraq and the Middle East in general is the ignition for the continuing flame of insurgency in Iraq.

I am a Southern Baptist, and feel the same way against my own when it comes to bombing abortion clinics and such! Terrorism is terrorism, no matter what the reasoning. When innocents are targeted, it is terrorism. Having said THAT, I believe that the Village Idiot (Bush) is one of the worst terrorists in the history of the world.

Abu Ghraib is a shameful situation, that the wrong people are being punished for. Troops don't come up with ideas like that on their own. Those are known practices of professional "intelligence gatherers" and were encouraged, if not ordered. I, too, am ashamed of that horrible episode! And you are right, it does paint us as exactly what the Bushies WANT us painted as. BULLIES!!

[DemonGoddess]

13. not me

I refuse to lump people of a faith with the extremists that we hear about. The MAJORITY of Muslims are not like the extremists. To me that would be the same as saying because I'm Catholic, I must be a terrorist, because of the IRA. How silly is that?