Problem with nationalizing ports

[Popol Vuh]

Nationalizing U.S. Ports would mean federalizing the docks. Federalizing the docks would result in a union busting measure. Both the ILA and ILWU would end up just like the Air Traffic Controllers Union.

As a ILWU member for 12 years, I can tell you from experience at political and bargaining strategy. Nationalizing the docks opens a Pandora's box with a sizable ripple affect.

[Erika]

1. You'ld prefer an Arab takeover of the docks?

Would that be simpler?

[Popol Vuh]

2. Race doesn't matter with me

But I understand the context of your question.

And my answer is: Are you saying you'd want to do to organized labor what the patriot act does to civil rights?

Look.....this port deal isn't necessary for terrorists to smuggle anything they wish. Trust me when I tell you: If someone wants to smuggle something into our ports right now.....it isn't difficult. The trade off from nationalizing is worse than if we didn't do anything because of the ripple effect it will have in the shipping industry's organized labor.

I am sure there are other ways to deal with this without destroying thousands upon thousands of good paying union jobs.

[leftstreet]

3. What mechanisms are in place to prevent union busting

from a private corp?
:shrug:

I've been trying to find an answer to this question.

Thanks.

[Popol Vuh]

5. I thought I'd

Never hear the day when I witnessed Democrats so ready to throw union labor to the curb for such a small gain of security.

Do you have any idea how many containers are on one ship and how many ships are being unloaded at any given time? It is so mind boggling that even with current security it isn't difficult to smuggle anything you want and have a decent chance to get it through with no problem.

But anyway to answer your question. With private corps, we fall under different regulations than those who's transportation jobs are federalized. I can't remember the name of the Act at the moment, but if we are federalized, we come under this act and are easily busted by the President of the United States.

With private corps, we have much more power at the bargaining table.


But hey....... So what right? I'll remember this if you guys succeed then later I see people here crying because of it will cause.

*Infuckingcreadable*

[leftstreet]

7. That's what I wondered.

...if different transportation unions had different agreements.

And for the record, NO I am NOT ready to throw ANY union jobs under the bus. And no I don't believe federalizing ports would be a good alternative. I've been trying to research this P&O/Dubai takeover because I feared the contracts might be lucrative if they'd found some way (passed some legislation) to bust the unions.

[MercutioATC]

4. Ummm...air traffic controllers DO have a union...

[Popol Vuh]

6. Ask those who

Reagan fired... How they feel about your response.

[Erika]

8. Toss us some of those regulations you quote

Thanks.

[Popol Vuh]

10. Then you're

going to have to give me time to remember the name of the act. I'll do you a favor and go on google and try and see if I can't pull up something to refresh my memory as to what the name of the Act is.


Also know this: When someone plants a knife into your back, you don't forget -- its human nature. For example, when Diana Feinstein stabbed me and my ILWU brothers and sisters in the back during our lock-out a fews years ago by calling on the President to put the Taft Hartley Act upon us. Today, I personally don't know of any co-worker who doesn't remember that.

Also, the ILWU isn't just some small union who is politically inactive and who's members are asleep until they have a contract dispute. Nope, and you can research this if you wish, our union has a long proud history of being very politically active, coming to aid of many, many poor and working class folks all around this country and the world. World wide we have a huge base of strong supporters because of our history of helping people successfully organizing as well as a lot of other stuff.

Anyway what I am saying is: All over this country and the world there are lots of people who have very strong support for the ILWU because of what we have done to help so many. All up and down the west coast there are thousands and thousands of voting longshoreman, their families and the local peoples who rely upon that good longshoreman pay who are going to be very pissed-off at those who caused a union busting measure.

And like I said, its human nature to remember who planted a knife in your back. So you can bet there will be lots and lots of voting people who normally put Democrats into office who are going to be looking for some pay-back at the ballot box.



Now let me go and see if I can't refresh my memory as to the name of that act I mentioned since you seem to have doubt about my honesty.

[Popol Vuh]

12. Here's a link for you

http://www.france.attac.org/a3111

Speaking at a November 7 economic conference, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey suggested using the current political moment to expand the Taft-Hartley Act and the Railway Labor Act in order to strengthen the President’s position in labor disputes. Lindsey specifically mentioned that this kind of expansion of presidential power could be used to extract concessions from airline unions in the coming months.

Part of this thrust may well be an effort to place the dockworkers under the Railway Labor Act. The Railway Labor Act allows greater latitude for the imposition of injunctions to head off strikes and lockouts. Bush may also be able to break the dockers’ coast-wide bargaining agreement down to the port level, severely weakening the union’s leverage in future disputes.

[MercutioATC]

11. That's a looooong story...and both sides were to blame.

Regardless, that wasn't an example of union-busting.

[sandnsea]

9. How about a US company

You know, to at least keep up the appearance that we're a country. Borders and ports, wouldn't that be the bare minimum that you keep in your own country's control??? Or is that just too old-fashioned.

And unions want our support?? Fine. Then do what you do best and stop letting them dismantle our country, piece by piece. Starting with your area of expertise, the ports.

Longshoremen can't march to end the war and then turn right around and support the kind of naked global power grab that caused the war.