I'm a Centrist Liberal Progressive Radical Moderate -- How about you?

[Armstead]

(Just have to get this off my chest.)

Sometimes we get so hung up on labels that it gets silly.

We also get caught up in various buzzwords, like "pragmatic" and "electable" and whether a particilar position is "too far left" or "too spineless."

Personally, I find myself arguing like a centrist sometimes and arguing like a progressive lefty at others. In some instances I feel like a voice of moderation. At other times I feel like a radical rabble rouser.

Anyone else experience this paradox here?

It's a lot easier-- and probably more satisfying -- to take a stance that is all-purpose. Like "I'll support any Democrat, even if he is a cross between Simon Legree and Attilla the Hun." Or the opposite position of "All Democrats are spinless weasels."

It also doesn't really advance us to dismiss specific positions, just because it might be "too liberal" or "too much like GOP lite."

IMO we would go a lot farther if we'd all shake up our preconceptions sometimes and actually discuss the substance and specifics of divisive issues, and hash them out with the goal of actually identifying where we might agree and disagree -- and how we can find enough common ground to have a more united front against the GOP CONservative Machine.

[Mythsaje]

1. I run into that too...

I've gotten to the point where I either consider myself one of the "radical middle" or just a populist.

The problem I see with hashing out the differences regarding policy we find even amongst ourselves is that there's a rather stark divide here as well.

We have those who absolutely oppose MORE power being given to the corporations, and those who don't think it's any big deal.

We have those who oppose any sort of authoritarian legislation, and those who think it's all right if it's for a good cause.

We have those who hate and fear guns, and those who own, use, and respect guns.

And all those who stand somewhere in the middle of these issues, as well as many others.

[BOSSHOG]

2. I will support the dem candidate for president in 2008

and I doubt he/she will be Simon Legree or Attila the Hun (although Attila had a great tome on leadership.) I'm a wack job liberal zealot who just so happens to have a vet card in his back pocket. Bottom line, I vote straight dem party on the ballots. Bottom line, I urge all within shouting distance not to vote for republicans and urge them all to chat with me for the reasons why.

[Dhalgren]

3. I'm an Islamo-Fascist, Commie Maoist with Trotskyite tendencies

but I always vote Democratic....

[radio4progressives]

14. LOL!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:loveya:

[Armstead]

24. Tweety would love you

You've got all the bases covered. :evilgrin:

[sam sarrha]

4. I'm just an ordinary run of the mill Anti-Fascist.. now bells no whistles

[lostnfound]

42. That's exactly the name I was going to use!

I started writing an essay on being an Anti-Fascist.

I think it's the only ideology I feel firm about.

[Old and In the Way]

5. No, I'm a moderate radical progressive liberal centrist.

Biiiig difference.

:-)

[Armstead]

26. As long as you're not a radical moderate progressive centrist liberal..

[jus_the_facts]

6. Liberal Sucker Cynic....

...FOOL for entertaining that a corrupted system still works..or ever did. :eyes:

[mongo]

7. DEATH TO ALL EXTREMISTS!!!!!

I'M SERIES

Sorry, your thread title made me thing of that -- but you do have a point.

I can get so caught up bumping heads with some of our more *fringe* members here, I lose sight of the big picture.

[demosincebirth]

9. You too?

[radio4progressives]

17. yeah! I just HATE those FRINGE members here, losing sight of lost jobs

and homelessness abounding... those damn fringers! it's all their fault!

[demosincebirth]

8. I guess I'm a moderate

Liberal on many issues, but also conservitive on others. I call meyself a 'Yellow dog Dem."

[NewInNewJ.]

10. I'm a dirty lowdown, yellow dog, bleeding heart liberal,

and proud of it!

[thereismore]

11. I am just pissed. nt

[LincolnMcGrath]

12. Can't we just post labels we have been tagged with on DU

By the small but vocal band of posters I refer to as the Enemies of Dissent?

[radio4progressives]

18. Enemies of Dissent ? Fringe Member Alert!

you Insignificant Twerp! :hug: :loveya:

[LincolnMcGrath]

40. You Ignorant Hayseed!

[Talismom]

13. I'm a radical agnostic Jew---G_ddamn it! I don't know and

neither do you! LOL!

[derby378]

27. So, uh, why leave out the "o" if you're agnostic?

It's not the tetragrammation or anything...

[Talismom]

30. 'Cause even tho' I don't know, I still was taught a certain way and retain

the identification with those practices. Go figure.:shrug:

[rucky]

15. I'm minty fresh. n/t

[BootinUp]

16. Thanks, good suggestions. n/t

[radio4progressives]

19. Richard Dreyfuss says He's a Lib-O/Conserv-O/Middle of the Road-O/Rad-O

I think he's really ought there lunatic fringe-O if you ask me... ;)

[Armstead]

28. Day O -- Daylight come and me want to go home

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. I know the feeling

In all honesty I could probably be fairly labeled as part of the Democratic and democratic-progressive left.

But the whole point of advancing the democratic-progressive left agenda is about making progress. One can adopt perfect positions but if their strategy is not advancing the agenda even if step by step, I don't think one is accomplishing very much. Progressive is about making progress. To do that one needs to face realities as they are not as one thinks they should be and move things forward from there.

I would also say that as much as I vehemently disagree with the DLC, if it is unfair when those of that persuasion misrepresent those of us of the left, it is also unfair when those of us of the left misrepresent them.

[The Sushi Bandit]

21. I am a hard core Progressive!

change the corporation laws
single payer health
agnostic government
everyone has the right to choose (sex, baby, lifestyle)
nudity is OK!

[Armstead]

23. I'll go for the nudity part

Nudity for others though...I look better with clothes.

I'll go with the rest of it too.

[welshTerrier2]

22. that which divides us

that which divides us is not primarily related to the political spectrum ...

the following explains the essence of what currently prevents party unity:

source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bob_burn_060224_searching_for_the_de.htm

Many Democratic loyalists are very upset with what they perceive as chronic ineptness. What they don’t get is that they are witnessing the consequences of a backstage fight for the heart of the Democratic Party. Ironically, Iraq, the economy or any other hot issue will not decide this fight; it will come down to values. Which of two sets of values will the Democrats embrace? One set is advocated by the Clintonista wing of the Party that argues that winning is everything, that the ends justify the means. This position takes refuge in tactics that shift as their perception of the mood of the electorate changes. The other morality is advocated by a loose coalition that includes House Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Minority Leader, Harry Reid. This position argues that Democratic positions must stem from their values; that the ends do not justify the means when they conflict with historic Democratic values. The former position places great emphasis on polls. The latter emphasizes principle.

[Armstead]

29. I forgot about being a pragmatic purist driven by polls and principles

I guess my position on that is that principles should trump polls, but that our principles really are winning ones if we actually stick to our priniples.

or something like that....

But in all seriousness, I do believe that there is a false dichotomy between winning and principles.

[welshTerrier2]

31. i absolutely AGREE it's a false dichotomy ...

but it nevertheless is what currently divides the Democratic Party ...

[omega minimo]

49. Strategery vs. Integrity

[derby378]

25. I'm a gun-toting, pro-science, pro-environment progressive

OK, so I don't have a gun right now, but I used to - one that made Josh Sugarman's hit list.

[bvar22]

32. I draw a line here:

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

Everything else is open for discussion,
but if you think that The RICH deserve more Power and Money, and it is OK to take that Power and Money from the Working Class and Poor, you are not welcome in my house.

[mzmolly]

33. Progressives don't generally fit neatly into any box. Our diversity

is our strength if we allow it to be. I'm a "lefty" politically, but an unabashed PROUD Democrat on the other.

:hi:

[The Doctor.]

34. I'm a ....

Progressive Moderate Libertarian Conservative anti-Bush Cognitive Spiritualist Republican.


Ok, mostly 'Moderate Republican'.

[Pushed To The Left]

35. I'm anti-conservative!

I will gladly stand with liberals, centrists, etc. who want to destroy the right wing as much as I do!

[tulip]

36. Lefty Moderate Liberal Democrat

I'm a liberal but I swing to the middle on some issues.

[AtomicKitten]

37. It would also help to be more than a one-issue voter.

Too many people find one issue or the other a deal-breaker.

For instance, the Republican holy-rollers today are perfectly fine with the torture and corruption of this administration as long as there is a chance that abortion be outlawed. That's insane.

We should be smarter than that.

[Minnesota Libra]

38. GREAT RANT - and I agree TOTALLY - I can be everything........

.....you mentioned and more, depending on the issue. For example, I believe totally in free health care for everyone so I'm pretty liberal on that. On the other hand, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion in the case of incest or rape but not merely as a method of birth control.

I especially agree with your point of anyone left of the middle coming together on issues they can and do agree on. Instead of always doing the ultra-conservatives work for them by throwing barbs at fellow liberals. Conservatives rarely have to do much of anything to liberals because we usually do their work for them by destroying ourselves from within.:wtf:

[Sooner75]

39. People fall into two groups

There's the people who lump everything into two groups and the ones who don't.

[LincolnMcGrath]

43. rotf

That is a keeper! :hi:

[SupplyConcerns]

41. It IS good to know if you have a coherent philosophy.

For example, how reformable do you think individuals are? Do you believe in the principle seeking to provide equal opportunities for success, or in equal results? It's not enough to say "Bush is crazy, therefore conservatism isn't worth thinking about on its own terms - I only fight for good!" I'm finding this out more and more as I do a private reading on Neoconservative philosophy this spring term.

[Armstead]

46. True

I have one of those....But it's only coherent to myself. :crazy:

[Cocoa]

44. I'm a NEW Centrist Liberal Progressive Radical Moderate

[Armstead]

45. I'm an Old one.....Or at least a middle aged one

[The Magistrate]

47. You Have Pretty Much Described Me, Mr. Armsatead

"I am a man of principles, Sir, and chief among them is flexibility."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Pachamama]

48. I'm an American and a Humanist....

I refuse to belong to any political party...I'm tired of them all and while I may find things to agree with, I find too many things to disagree with and I'm really tired of the "team" mentality....

I love my country, I love my Constitution and I love the planet and all of its beauty and wonder...I'm committed to protecting all of them....And I think the political machines of all sides in this country are hell bent on tearing our country apart.

[GeorgeGist]

50. It seems to me that real progress involves moving forward.

In an ideal world the road would be straight ahead. But in the real world there are obstacles and you may need to stop, pass, turn left, or turn right for awhile before you can move forward again. The two party system doesn't offer enough choices; so we tend to cl/rash a lot.

[mdmc]

51. there is beauty in them there labels!

This liberal progressive understands what it is all about.

[Armstead]

56. Labels are okay, but they should not be straightjackets

It's good and necessary to have basic categories to identify basic stances, and a shorthand.

However, IMO, they should not become restrictive or used to substitute for substnce, either as self-identifiers or to label particular positions.

For example, compared to many liberals, I'm a right-wing libertarian when it comes to gun control. Other than some basic common-sense limitations aimed at criminals, psychos and terrorists, I think it's a waste of time (and political capital) to try and control gun ownership ewcessively at the federal level. It smacks of the Nanny State, and is potentially can be an abuse of freedom. If individual states want to do it, that's their business. Otherwise, I agree with the statement that "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

But on most economic issues, and many otehr issues, I'm what you'd call a staunch liberal and progressive populist of the Bernie Sanders/Paul Wellstone variety.

So when people talk in broad terms about whether the Democratic Party should "go left" or "appeal to the center" my reaction is often to wonder what they mean by that.

Dick Gephardt, for example, is a classic staunch liberal on many economic issues. But he supported the Iraq War, so he was vilified by the left as a conservative collaborator. So it all depends on which side of Gephardt you're talking about.

That's why I think it often has to do with specific issues, rather than broad labels.

[BlueIris]

52. My preferred term for myself is liberal. My favorite Dems are LIBERALS.

I actually hate the term Progressive. Hate it. Yeah, yeah, it's more "inclusive." To people who don't support choice and don't really support the DNC, in my assessment. But who still want their anti-choice, anti-sanity perspectives "respected." Because they're assholes. Ahem. I'll use the label in environments in which people insist on calling all non-Republicans "Progressives" for the sake of inclusivity, a "when in Rome" approach, and avoiding getting screamed at by slimy, ignorant, anger-management-challenged dipshits whom I really can't stand but am willing to tolerate in order to ensure they won't crap out and vote for the GOP. Did I mention I hate the term "Progressive"? It's a term for folks still too afraid of Rove. Dipshits.

[Armstead]

53. Progressive has two contradictory meanings

The term "progressive" unfortunately has acquired two contrary meanings to describer very different groups in recent years.

1)Left wing Progressives include people like Paul Wellstone, John Conyers, the Congressional Black Caucus, etc. It also includes people outside the partisan parameters, such as Bernie Sanders and Tim Robbins. This brand of progressives is basically Liberalism on Steriods, in that they address core systemic problems such as corporate power and advocate significant systemic reforms.

2)Centrist Progressives are actually basially the opposite of the first category. They tend more towards economic conservatism, and are more closely aligned with corporate interests. The DLC could be called centrist progressives.

That's one reason labels can become problematic.

[DarkTirade]

54. I keep a fairly simple label...

I am a person with common sense and common decency.

[Adelante]

55. Yes, yes, yes

I can't even call myself anything anymore, it's all gotten so rigid and authoritarian. I hate it. You have the answer I have adopted -- judgments based on issues, not personalities or club membership. It gets us nowhere fast to keep building dividers in the tent.