What it would take to get attention for electronic election fraud

[hvn_nbr_2]

What it's going to take to get Americans to pay attention to electronic election theft

Newsaganda media won't notice it, research it, or report it.
Dem politicians won't talk about it, pay attention to it, or even listen to constituents who want to tell them about it.
If neither of those will talk about it, most Murkins think it's only conspiracy theory stuff.

Computer scientists can't get attention.
University statisticians can't get attention.
Activists can't get attention, even when they publicly demonstrate flaws with fraud potential and even when they show clear violations of election laws by election officials and vote counting companies.
Whistleblowers can't get attention, except to get themselves arrested.

So who can get someone to notice and pay attention?

I'll tell you who, but you won't like the answer any better than I do, except in a schadenfreude kind of way..

So who can do what to get people's attention?
The only answer I can think of is hackers hacking. Lots of hackers hacking every way they can find to hack, every machine they can find a way to hack. Hacking that negatively affects Pugs and the affluent whites who support them. I'm not advocating, just saying.

If some of the following things happen on a large scale on election day, they'll have to pay attention and report it:

• Many voting machines display "Are we having fun yet?" instead of the choices available.
  
• Many machines crash and die in affluent white neighborhoods, so that affluent whites have to wait in line for hours or can't vote at all.
  
• Final results show preposterous tallies: third party candidates get 10 billion votes in several precincts. Pugs get 3% in Pug districts.
  
• Machines switch votes from Pug to Dem in Pug districts, and do it right there on-screen in front of the voters' eyes.
  
• When people try to vote for a Pug, machines play the hamster dance.
  
• At random times, machines play the hamster dance and then erase disk.
  
• Hackers make an entire election so blatantly flawed that no one could report the purported results with a straight face, and they make affluent, white, Pug voters the obvious victims. A large proportion of Congressional elections have results so preposterous that no one can take them seriously.
  

Again, I'm not advocating, just saying. That's the only thing I can think of that will make anyone pay attention.

[petgoat]

1. We need to think what we're going to do if in November

the exit polls and the vote counts are way out of whack again. I don't want to repeat
that sense of paralyzed shock from 11/04 when I just sat there thinking "Why doesn't
somebody do something?"

[rzemanfl]

5. Why don't we take a page from the Repuke playbook? Have

the Republicans vote on Tuesday and Democrats on Wednesday, FOR REAL. It would be pretty hard to finagle the results of that.

[BigYawn]

32. Another example of disparity between exit polls and election results....

happened in recent elections in the Palestinian Controlled
Areas. EXIT POLLS indicated a big win by the ruling party
of Arafat, but opposition HAMAS won a big majority. How
could that happen when they used paper ballots? Or were
electronic voting machines used? But then the ruling party
would have won?? Confusing as hell.

[TexasLawyer]

35. big-time fraud can take place with paper ballots, too.

Ohio, November 2004 used primarily paper ballots.

It all depends on who's conducting the election, who's counting the ballots, who's storing the ballots, and who's in charge of any recount.

[RagingInMiami]

2. We need to figure out how to tie in Natalee Holloway with Diebold

and election fraud.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

34. LOL

Yeah, I thought they'd never let go of that poor little rich girl bone, as media used the story to cover sins of the empire... I wonder how repukes will like secretly exporting other young "Natalee's" through UAR ports... I hear young American girls are valuable, popular sex slaves in Mid-Eastern countries where women do not vote at all.

[mirrera]

3. TOTALLY agree!!!

Not advocating...or begging,wishing,hoping,praying...just saying..Hear, Hear!



http://NoBullshiRt.com

[rzemanfl]

4. Michael Moore needs to make a movie that cuts through all the

math and shows in real World examples how outrageously improbable the * "win" is. Things like having a baseball player hit ten home runs in a row, someone hitting the trifecta at the track several times in one day, a pitcher throwing a wild pitch into the the dugout.

[petgoat]

7. Moore absolutely refused to go along with the Stolen Election

crowd in '04, but he did recently host this AP piece about the Sequoia Systems
machines in Palm Beach County:

http://michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=5989

[truckin]

21. A movie based on the VoteScam book would be a good vehicle

to raise awareness about this issue. What the Collier brothers went through from 1970-1992 while trying to expose vote fraud is fascinating and the walls they ran into sobering. I don't know how to get this movie made but it needs to be done.

[petgoat]

31. Hi truckin. You and I were talking about this on the Elections

board several months ago, about writing a screenplay. As I recall somebody was going to check with
the copyright owner (Victoria Collier?) of the book and see if the project could be authorized. That
was the last I heard on the subject.

[truckin]

33. Hi Petgoat. I have contacted Phylis Collier, who is Victoria's

mother and was married to Jim Collier. She is very interested in seeing that a movie gets made. She also sent me a synopsis of the book to send out to anyone who might be able to contibute to this project. Please email me if you are interested and I'll give you more information.

[nolies32fouettes]

6. we keep the issue out there! Even on this blog...

I post election fraud stuff as much as I can because I've go freepers there.

http://www.progressiveu.org/105410-we-prosecute-whistleblowers-now-well-when-theres-election-fraud-involved

Please help me by watching my blog and reading my articles. (That one is about election fraud.)

This is my main page though and you can find all my blog posts there.

http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nolies32fouettes

Please check my threads daily.

[Minnesota Libra]

8. You've got a point there. Calling all hackers - calling all hackers......

......all hackers can now do something that all of America will view as being positive. I love it!!!!!!!! :hug:

[hvn_nbr_2]

9. There's a mentality that loves to say or at least think "Told you so."

and my impression is that that mentality is strongly present in hackers. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if some of those who have been dissed and ignored (or whose friends and colleagues have been) set out to prove it. Not to mention that there may just be patriots among them too.

I'm reminded of a programmer I knew once who found a bug in a messaging system that would crash a computer *after* it passed on a message. (This was a long time ago, in a very different world of networking.) No one would listen to him or let him do anything about it. So he checked out the message routing tables and found a to-from combination that would send a message through the entire network around the world on its way to the destination. Then one day when he had the right access, he sent the message that he'd devised, and all the computers in that network all around the world went crash-crash-crash-crash... one after the other till the whole network was down. Then they believed him and let him fix it.

But when you say "All America will view as being positive," I don't think so. If they catch whoever did it, and it will be the biggest computer crime investigation in history, they'll throw the book at them, and it will be left to find a patriotic jury who'll acquit. Oh, and by the way, I expect that there will be no effort to prosecute the real culprits who made the systems secret and vulnerable for their own nefarious purposes.

[The Wielding Truth]

10. Let's pull a Rosa Parks. After we vote we will refuse to leave until

we get proof that we voted.

[TheBaldyMan]

11. a Republican defeat would open a can of worms

lets see them try and keep quiet about it then ...

[PBass]

12. We need to catch cheaters in the act, more or less.

I like the idea of hackers hacking, except it will be turned around and used as proof that "Dems cheat". We have to be better than they are.

Somehow there has to be a way to CATCH right wing hackers, in close to real time... same day or next day. Weeks later or months later is too late. We don't have to solve the whole thing right away (who what when where why), but we need proof of cheating right away.

If that can happen, it's maybe just as good or better than banning the Diebold machines now.

[TheBaldyMan]

13. The rats have taken care of that already

check out the web for stuff like electronic voting in the Australian system that uses open methods and public scrutiny to check whether results are verifiable and honest. Then compare other systems with the US system that is secretive and shrouded in 'commercial confidentiality' to protect Diebold's intellectual property. It makes for scary reading.

What I meant was when the country votes so overwhelmingly for the Dems that no-one can deny they won it thats when the whiners will be out in force.




I am reminded of the Poll Tax debacle in the UK that extended the life of the conservative government for one more term. So many poor people, traditional Labour voters, had been forced off the electoral roll that the Conservatives 'won' another term, loudly proclaiming they had a 'mandate' and the victory heralded a turning point in tory fortunes - the people had spoken. Even with their economic voter purge they had a much reduced majority and consequently the government collapsed after a couple of years.

The following election saw Blair elected with a massive majority but still committed to tory policies. The result was like having the Conservatives re-elected with a majority that the Conservatives could only dream about.

If there is a warning in the story it is this: don't betray your roots, just because the bastards steal elections does not mean that there is something wrong with liberal policies. Don't get railroaded into an increasingly conservative agenda.

[Jawja]

14. A Democrat to steal an election.

:shrug:

[meow2u3]

15. In this case, the Dem would REPOSSES the election

Take back what's rightfully theirs.

[KansDem]

17. You're correct.

Presently, GOPers think everything is hunky-dorie with the election process. However, have an election where a Dem wins receiving fewer votes and it is documented that many Repub votes flipped to Dem votes, and were the exit polling showed the Repub winning only to have mysterious switched to the Dem in the early AM, and that large groups of Repub voters were disenfranchised, and on and on, and you'll see "election reform" move front and center real quick!

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

16. Get one network, journalist whatever to make a real documentary.

Like Ensor's "Dead Wrong" about Iraq on CNN Presents.

It doesn't have to say an election was stolen, but only point out the flaws, vulnerabilities, political aspects of the whole mess.

What I don't get is that there is no doubt that computer scientists create mission critical systems for the space program and medical systems.

Is Democracy any less important?

How there can be any doubt?

That is the real flaw, that the whole electronic voting system was given over to a private company(s) without the same kinds of software engineering standards that ought to go into any critical system.

Is that so hard to understand?

I have a degree in Computer Science and engineering, so to me it is beyond obvious.

I'm asking the non computer science folks, what about this doesn't register with the people of the US?

[hvn_nbr_2]

19. The real flaw

That is the real flaw, that the whole electronic voting system was given over to a private company(s) without the same kinds of software engineering standards that ought to go into any critical system.

It's actually worse than that. Diebold makes ATMs. They know how to make secure systems that don't get tampered. But they chose not to use that expertise in making voting systems. Could the reason be any more obvious?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

22. They do have a solid system for ATM's, I'm not sure who designed it

actually.

For all I know they had outside engineers involved with that, almost certainly had real computer scientists.

But they kept the voting systems in-house, and had at least one felon working on the closed source software for it.

[rniel]

18. I can see

Some republican just read your post and goes into a panic. Claims that liberal bloggers plan to hack their vote. It's ok if they hack our votes, but we do it to them it won't be tolerated.

[BlueCollar]

20. if dems rigged the election

limpballs and o'lielly would be all over it

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

23. Also a lot of work is going on at the state and local levels. Anyone

who wishes to can go dig in a blackboxvoting.org , or with some voting rights group in their state.

There are ballot initiatives for paper ballots, FOIA requests, challenges of certifications of some voting machines.

California has had a great deal going on in this area.

[StatGirl]

24. You nailed it! And the key is . . .

. . . to make it so "over the top" that it's clear that the point isn't to steal an election, but to make a powerful political statement about the security of the voting machines.

A primary election would be better than a general election (preferably an early primary), and Florida, Ohio, and Texas would be my dream states for targeting.

Not that I'm advocating it, of course. :)

[hvn_nbr_2]

25. "over the top"

And the key is to make it so "over the top" that it's clear that the point isn't to steal an election, but to make a powerful political statement about the security of the voting machines and, I would add, the validity of our democratic processes. Yes, I would hope that if anyone does this, they'll be completely over the top about it.

[StatGirl]

29. I love the dancing hamsters, by the way :)

[hvn_nbr_2]

30. I was about to say "welcome to DU" but then I noticed...

that you joined just about the same time I did. Guess you just don't post much.

[Wisconsin Larry]

26. Unfortunately it is more than electronic fraud, as if that

were not enough, the Repugs are going further to eliminate free elections. They are busy putting in poll taxes (aka voter ID) and eliminating recounts, assuming there is any paper left to recount. Following is an excerpt from FreePress.org about the new Ohio law. Governor Jim Doyle has twice vetoed similar bills in Wisconsin where if the voter ID had been in place in 2004, Wisconsin would have gone to Bush instead of Kerry. We need to mount a massive counter attack.

From freepress.org at
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2006/1754

"Ohio's GOP-controlled legislature has passed a repressive new law that will gut free elections here and is already surfacing elsewhere around the US. The bill will continue the process of installing the GOP as America's permanent ruling party.

Coming with the swearing in of right-wing extremist Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, it marks another dark day for what remains of American democracy.

Called HB3, the law now demands discriminatory voter ID, severely cripples the possibility of statewide recounts and actually ends the process of state-based challenges to federal elections---most importantly for president---held within the state.

In other words, the type of legal challenge mounted to the theft of Ohio's electoral votes in the 2004 election will now be all but impossible in the future."

[mikeanike]

27. it is over give it up

The vast majority of people barely care about this anymore. The best option is to quitely (well note really quitely) get laws passed in the states that protects our rights! Any state congress people on this site? Your our only really hope in this.

[rzemanfl]

28. Note really quitely? Protects our rights? State Congress? Your

our only really hope? The(sic)was invented for posts like this. I would expect to see a post like this on another board. Welcome to DU, but please work on your grammar and syntax, there are a lot of people who are language fanatics around here.