Dang it ... I've listened to them all and I still want Dean.

[Armstead]

Ol Howard has taken it on the chin. And he's stumbled. And so, being ABB, I have been paying more attention to the other candidates, in particular Kerry. (My senator, so he is not an unknown quantity).

I've kept an open mind, ABB, and tried to generate enthusiasm. I've said to myself, well if it's Kerry (the most likely outcome), I guess he'd be okay.

But dang it all, I still like Dean more the more I see him. He is telling it like it is. We have to be ABB, but we also have a chance here to change the tone of politics.

As his Meet the Press interviewed showed to me, Dean "gets it." It's no secret that around every election the mantra before and after is how rotten and remote politics has become. Everyone says it. Amnd politics when campaigning promise to do it.

But Dean gives me the feeling that he really means it. he understands the disconnect that exists between "the people and the power." He understands -- really understands -- what a stranglehold special interests have on government, and how that affects real people.

And the Dean campaign is an embodiment of that. Funded by real people, powered by people. Isn;t that the way it's supposed to be.

For all his flaws, I still get the feeling that Dean is the one who could both beat Bush (of the Democrats unite) and could also begin pushing politics and government back to the REAL center.

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. I know...

It sucks, because even with his faults he is the best candidate and does indeed "get it"

[Lisa0825]

2. I completely agree!

His appearance on Meet the Press was great! I was in the crowd during the "scream" speech, and it was an energizing, exciting moment! It was really disheartened to come home 18 hours on a bus and find so much negativity about it. It's been really hard to take. But I still stand behind him, I am still sending money, I am still speaking on his behalf, and I will continue to do so until the nomination is decided.

[maxr4clark]

3. Vote for him; campaign for him.

That's what I'm doing for Clark.

[Eloriel]

4. Well then trash that ABB

shit attitude and get with the program. :evilgrin:

What are you doing to help see that he gets elected? I'm not giving up on Dean until he gives out or wins. Why are you crying in your beer?

Like I said, get with the program. ;-)

[Armstead]

6. Have you ever thought of becoming a drill sergent?

If not you've missed your calling. :scared:

But you're right. I've done my little bit in my little corner of the world for him, and I shouldn't assume it's all over.

But I wan't whining. Well, maybe I was. I just think he is so good, and I get frustrated that it doesn't seem to be coming across. whine, whine,whine.

[MercutioATC]

5. So support him...

If he's not the nominee, go with whomever is, but above all VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE in the primaries.

What's Kerry got as ammunition against Bush? The War? Nope (Iwr vote). Education? Nope (NCLB vote). Civil liberties? No, again (Patriot Act vote).

How much will you like running against "Hell, I appreciate all of John Kerry's support over the past four years."?

Dean's a bit of a wild card, but he IS the voice of change. He can only win if we make it happen. I, for one, intend to make it happen.

[incapsulated]

7. Then stick with him

It's your choice, period.

[Anwen]

8. Agreed.

I've always been for Dean but just to be fair I've checked out all of the other candidates. None of them excite me like Dean does, and despite the growing consensus that he is "unelectable" I strongly believe he would cream Bush in the GE. No doubts. Dean really does "get it." I only hope that more people "get it" as well...

[SharonAnn]

11. Yes, I think he'd beat * in the General election. He's not afraid

to "say it like it is" and take the fight right to *.

Can you imagine a debate with the two of them? He would make * look so phoney, so incompetent that it would be an absolute joy to watch. And it wouldn't even matter what the format or the subject was.

[patricia92243]

9. I don't remember any of the other candidates mentioning making positive...

the media monoply is broken up and not allowed to form again. This is the MOST important thing our president can do. If this is not done - and done now - there will never be another chance - if it is not already too late. Notice the media change when he mentioned what I have just written.

Our Democracy is at stake if this nation doesn't let Gov. Dean take on and win this task. He is electable if the people will defy the press and elect him.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Actually, that's been part of Kucinich's platform since this summer

But you'd never know it, since DK never gets mentioned on network news or in the newspapers except in conjunction with snide remarks.

[SharonAnn]

39. That's one of the reasons the media isn't favorable to Dean

They don't want him making theose decisions and reigning in their monopolies.

[K-W]

10. Dean is not a progressive

He is not a little guy disconnected from power. He will not act any different in office than say, clinton did.

[Jacobin]

21. Politicians who vote for preemptive wars based on

obvious lies are not progressive either.

[mopinko]

29. which would be

okey dokey with me.

[Leilani]

12. I feel about Clark the way you feel about Dean

So stay with your guy!

That's what I'm going to do.

[Armstead]

13. I like Clark too

I just am not always sure where he's coming from.

I guess that's the way some folks feel about Dean.

It's hard when candidates are not from the familiar "Washington/Media Presidental candidate production machine," I guess.

[Indiana_Dem]

14. I am in the same boat....

I just decided this week I am voting for him in the primary. I've been undecided and have been following this race since July. My family is going to vote Dean as well. They just decided, too. So don't lose heart. There may be many new people coming on as I have.

[stickdog]

15. Me, too. And despite my likely unrivaled hatred of everything BFEE, I just

can't get too excited about the prospect of Michael Whouley vs. Karl Rove.

[buddhamama]

16. Dean is not my candidate

but dang! Armstead, if you believe in Dean then give him your all till the lady sings.

i won't be manipulated by the media or anyone into to giving up. the race isn't over by a long shot.

[CWebster]

17. You and me both

Looks like us angry Democrats are getting railroaded by insider yes men who will attempt to deflect their complicity in supporting Bush in attacking Iraq as an intelligence failure. Let the whitewash commense. All of the policies Bush could be held accountable for are compromised by complicity while Kerry is sold as the great Democratic hope.

Angry? Who me, why would I be angry?

[Armstead]

24. Exactly

Warching Dean reacently talking about Cheney and the CIA's "intelligence faiulures," I have to wonder why Kerry -- who supposedly has all the "dirt" from the intelligence insiers -- is being so coy about this.

Dean has gone out on a limb to say in public what has been fairly common knowledge from many intelligence and forsign policy insiders. We were told kerry would be using these things against Bush. But insteadm Kerry is leaving Dean out on that limb and parroting the David Kay/Bush line about "intelligence failures.

No pun intended, but that insults my intelligence.

[WillyT]

18. Me Three !!!

Actually thought we might be able to beat Shrub AND change the status quo in Washington at the same time.

Guess will just have to settle for the former.

The 'soft bigotry of lowered expectations' strikes again, LOL!!!

:shrug:

[Forkboy]

19. Not a Dean fan

but his Dem-assisted take down has totally sickened me.Whatever doubts I had about the Dems being afraid of any real change are gone.I know exactly where they stand now.

[Jacobin]

20. Moi aussie

mon ami.

I'm trying very hard to get up a head of steam for Kerry, and then read his statements about "intelligence failure" and I just shake my head and sigh.........


Damn its gonna be hard to get behind this loopy guy. Smarmy speeches which say nothing and straddle the vast middle, a tactic which I do not think can work in this situation.

I go back and read the canned email Kerry's office sent me when I was bombarding him with faxes and emails prior to the IWR, begging him to look at the information on the other side of the war position. I read his response and dammit, it could have been written by the RNC. Its just disgusting.

Going to have to really really really hold my nose to vote for this guy, and its going to be a reluctant vote and the SOB damn well better not escalate the Iraq occupation, or I'll work to get him unelected in the next go around.

[justsam]

22. I'm beginning to lean toward Dean

he was on Meet the Press and didn't stumble once.had a good answer for every question and made Russet hesitate a few times because he usually makes people nervous. he's right on most issues one is how can Kerry go after special interest groups if he has taken more money than anyone in the last 15 yrs.

[WyLoochka]

23. Same here Armstead

I think Dean would wipe that smirk off Junie's face and send him back to Texas in a landslide with coat tails that would give Democrats a real opportunity to turn the tide.

When people actually listen to him, they realize he is the one who really does "get it."

I have been a fan of Kerry for decades and planned to vote for him if he ever ran for Prez. The campaign revealed, sadly, that Kerry doesn't "get it" while Dean does - that it is OUR country, not the sell outs who have clung to positions in Congress to serve their own interests, instead of the peoples' interests. Kerry became part of the problem, not the solution, and I really don't like having to admit that about him.

I will vote for him if he is nominated, of course. But I think it will be very, very difficult for him to beat the BushCo machine. Even if he does beat BushCo, he has become so comfortable with the way things are in DC (he even defends they way things are claiming - Howard just doesn't understand, this is just the way it is in DC! UGH), I don't expect any startling changes overall in the way the peoples' business is conducted.

"Dang it" Dean is the change agent. I loathe to see that opportunity spurned by Democrats with cold feet opting for what they perceive as a "safe candidate."

If Dean is not the nominee, I will vote ABB because there is one positive that all our candidates share - there must be no more Scaliatites on the Supreme Court. If BushCo is elected - it will be all over. We'll suffer 40 years of an extreme right wing court. I don't know how future generations will ever get our country back if that happens.

In tomorrow's AZ primary - I'm voting for Dean! I hope I get to vote for him in November too.

[IrateCitizen]

26. But isn't that the way we should all choose our candidates???

Armstead, you've given concrete reasons of why you support the Dean campaign. You basically say that, just because he failed to win either of the first two nomination contests, you still support him for those same reasons that you were initially drawn to his campaign. Most importantly, your support of Dean is not based on calling up what you perceive as shortcomings in the other candidates -- but what Dean speaks to with you.

I fail to see the problem here. In fact, I would say that your position is indicative of how ALL of us should choose our candidates. Instead, now that we have a whole two states decided, we have Kerry supporters asking everyone else, "What does Kerry have to do to earn your support?" It's as if we're just EXPECTED to support him because he won Iowa and NH.

I think it's important to note that many people were saying the same thing about the Dean campaign just a month ago, when his nomination seemed "inevitable". They were saying that we should just unite behind him, because he was going to win it all.

I'm a Dennis Kucinich supporter -- not because he's "popular" or "electable", but because I believe his vision for America and America's role in the world is desperately needed right now. I support Dennis Kucinich because I believe in him and his vision, first and foremost. When people ask me what (insert candidate here) can do to get my support, my response is simple: WIN THE NOMINATION.

Until that time, my support goes to Dennis Kucinich. I'm not going to shift with the fickle winds of "popularity" because my support for DK runs much deeper than polls or media hype.

I fail to see why you should apologize for similar support for your preferred candidate. Support him with the pride of your convictions! :D

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

27. I'm right there with you

I'll vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is, but Dean is still my absolute favorite, with my number 2 choice being a very distant second. It's a good thing that I hate Bush as much as I do or I might have a serious ethical dilemma in November.

It's funny, I've never been this dedicated to a political figure in my life. I don't know what it is exactly, but Dean just seems to "get it" more than the other candidates, in my opinion. I think his presidency would be good for the whole country. I think it would be a very grounding, back-to-earth administration, which we sorely need after Bush. That's my take on it anyway.

[Nashyra]

32. I have a whole new respect for Dean

I am still a Clark supporter, have been since the Draft Clark movement started,but what the media has done to Dean and what Dean has done to fight back I can't help but respect him. My first choice before Clark came on the horizon was Kerry but not now. I hope Dean stays in the race until the end (along with Wes). Both of these men have brought a style and honesty to politics that scare the media and the power brokers of the party, both parties. I pray that Clark gets a win to keep this thing going and that Dean gets a win during the next primary cycle. The thought of only having Kerry or Edwards to choose from appalls me, though I would go for Edwards first. I will vote for the Dem nominee because I do think that * has to be stopped and none of these candidate will send our kids to war like the *. That in it'self is enough to forego my principles. The only way for the killing to stop in Iraq is to replace the *. I'm bummed that it might come to that, but having lost a child I will do whatever to help bring anyones child or spouse home. ABB

[John_H]

28. I know where you're coming from, but it's decision time.

You can write in or vote third party--either of which enables the GOP by denying the only candidate with a chance to oust them a vote--or voting for an Democrat who is not your first choice.

That's just and impossible-to-spin fact.

[IrateCitizen]

30. Did I miss the conclusion of the rest of the primaries???

I must have, since you're portraying everything in terms of strictly the general election. :eyes:

And the last time I checked, your candidate was showing even LESS than Howard Dean. Does that mean that you are "spinning" as well, and should instead just fall in line behind the front-runner?

What a complete and utter strawman that, sadly, has become a typical argument substituted for reason on these boards.

[On the Road]

31. Too Many Voters are Trying to Choose the Most Successful Candidate

I would rather nominate the best leader and chief executive. I've seen no indication that Kerry or Edwards are leaders.

Having said that, Dean needs to pay more attention, especially now, to his image as a candidate. Instead of reducing his negatives with voters, he seems to be compunding them. I don't understand the strategy.

Bill Clinton could eviscerate Republicans with a smile on his face while sending a message of hope. Dean needs to do the same thing, immediately.

[jansu]

33. Electability is a Coded Word for......

Where did the idea that a person running for any office, has to be perfect? No one is! "Electability" is just a coded word to tell us whom the "powers-that-be" want! Anyone is electable, the proof is in how many really flawed people are in office. Stick to your beliefs and do everything you can to get this man into the Presidency.

I was not sure whom I wanted, until Howard Dean was told by the media to quit, that he had no chance. Then I found myself caring and knew that this was the candidate for me. I have sent in my contribution and will do so every month until November.

[nomaco-10]

34. Anybody that actually sat down and watched....

him on MTP yesterday, has to know that he is a brilliant man with a real message and a vision for this country that can't be ignored. Anyone that could put their differences aside about the way they feel towards his supporters and the fact he may offer your chosen candidate some competition, would see that Dean offers up the best alternative to bush* and a much needed progressive change for the democratic party as it stands now.
I'm with Howard to the end, I'm not going anywhere.

[Merlin]

35. You can't always get what you want. But if you try, sometimes you get...

what you need.

The question to ask yourself now, Armstead, imo, is how do we get as much of what we sought with Dean in some other candidate.

To me the answer is clear. We've got to make sure Dean gets on the ticket.

That means he will remain in a position of influence, a heartbeat away, and in a position to run in '08 if the ticket loses, or '12 if it wins.

It also retains as much of the Dean enthusiasm and energy in the electorate as possible.

So who could he be #2 to? Seems to me it has to be Clark. And that's good because Clark, too, has sounded many of the same themes Dean has. And Clark can benefit profoundly from Dean's support right now.

I propose Dean and Clark agree that whichever of them has fewer delegates by convention time will support the other for #1 and agree to serve as VP.

The time to initiate that deal will be this week, after Dean loses severely Tuesday, and Clark wins barely one state (OK), if any.

They are much stronger together than they are individually.

[liberalmike27]

36. Stop Being Sheeple People!!

Hard to believe Democrats are so easily steered, like compliant littles sheeple, toward Bush's fellow Skull and Crossbones buddy, John Kerry.

Polls show that Dean is considered by voters to be more in agreement with their beliefs, that voters see Dean as the candidate with new-ideas, and the ideas that are best for the country. Kerry beats Dean on "electability" alone, and that is a media-manufactured idea, put into the sheeple's minds, just like Dean's speech was mis-portrayed as a maniacal rant between Iowa and New Hampshire, to kill off Dean's numbers there.


Funny thing is, the whole Skull and Bones plan is probably to have Kerry lose to Bush, so they can keep rewarding their rich secret-society buddies, and continue to consolidate their power in America. Democrats, vote for who has your beliefs, as the electability issue is a red-herring, created by a media that is unsympathetic to your lives, and only wants to take your preferred vote away, and give it to Kerry.

[Merlin]

43. You didn't read what I wrote. I was talking about Clark not Kerry.

Please re-read it and comment again.

Thanks

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. The only thing he gets is your anger and he is cynically manipulating it

Dean's relationship with the energy industry in VT, developers and his comments on the justice system reveal a very different person from the guy that wants his country back.

Anyone who wants to check my references can GOOGLE any of these accusations rather than hit the alert on me...the info is widely available to anyone willing to read it.


Google the CHAMPLAIN FLYER, his campaign isn't the ONLY thing that is in the red.

Believe me, I am glad he is saying SOME of the things he is saying but the belief that HE GETS it more than anyone is just that: a belief.

We ALL bemoan the effect of corporate interests on politics but THAT conversation and the meme SPECIAL interests were created by Republicans. The Democratic party used to be almost EXCLUSIVELY funded by environmental interests, unions, and trial lawyers but we have heard these people called SPECIAL INTERESTS for so long that even NOW on DU I see Democrats bashing these groups.

We all BEMOAN the effects of corporate cash on campaigns but George Bush is raising 200 million to beat us. What shall we do? NOT RAISE CASH?


The other day a Dean supporter claimed Kerry took money from NEWSCORP. All they had to do was go to Dean's page on OPENSECRETS.ORG to observe that he too has taken money from some of the very same industries...less....but that probably has more to do with the value THEY assign to him then that he would return it.

If people want to believe that candidates such as Kerry, Edwards and Lieberman were wrong on the war, I'll concede the point. There is no getting around it. In hindsight and even in foresight to a degree, it was wrong.

But frankly, I think the people who will be MOST upset with Dean when the rubber hits the road are the people who WANT to believe in him now.

Just because a guy is making his cash in small amount DOES NOT mean it is not being funneled through the very same interests as the guy taking a big check...it is just harder to trace since the trail is less visible.

Last but not least, I keep hearing that Dean is the one likely to have crossover appeal, but how many Republicans will be offended that he called John Kerry and Wesley Clark Republicans and USED the term as a pejorative?

[stickdog]

38. We all know where Dean's getting his money from!

Because we're the ones sending it to him!.

Just because a guy is making his cash in small amount DOES NOT mean it is not being funneled through the very same interests as the guy taking a big check...it is just harder to trace since the trail is less visible.

And in a related story, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength.

[Jacobin]

40. Wha?

I can't believe you caught me. I was funneling my fifty dollar a month contributions to Howard Dean through the Defense Department PAC, and now you've caught me!!!

Darn you to heck!!! :-)

I've been busted!!!! Now everybody will know I'm just a defense department stooge funneling money to Howard Dean. Just another special interest!!

Ohhhh the agony!!!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. From opensecrets

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contribmethod.asp?ID=N00025663&Cycle=2004

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00025663&cycle=2004

[MGKrebs]

42. I still think Dean would make the best President.