Bernie Sanders; impeachment of Bush shouldn't be a top priority

[killerbush]

Bernie Sanders was on the Thom Hartmann show today, and the subject of impeachment came up. Bernie surprised me by saying that impeaching Bush, if the Democrats win the House, should not be a top priority. He said that the main priority for the Democrats is to fix the problems Bush has caused since he took office in 2001. He cited health care, changing foreign policy, the enviornment, and a whole range of issues that Bush has screwed up.
Hartmann suggested that impeaching Bush would be looked upon as and eye for an eye thing, and Sanders agreed with that assessment. You see, even if the Democrats regain the House, impeaching Bush, at least to one of the house members is not at the top of his list to get done. Now, further down the road, it probably would come up, but even then, with solid Republicans, and some southern conservative Democrats voting no, impeaching Bush certainly would not be an easy thing to do.


Do you agree with Sanders or not??

[LiberalVoice]

1. He could be right.

Its not as if americans are paying attention to the chaops * has created. At least not chaos to the extent people who pay attention would observe. I owuldnt be suprised if most americans saw it as an eye for an eye thing. Where as if we start fixing all his fuck ups they would maybe come to appreciate democracy rather then the fascist dogma * and his cronies hold so closely to their wallets.

[Warpy]

9. He's right, but for a different reason

Cheney has to go first.

[Radical Activist]

2. Impeachment or not, we need investigative hearings.

I think the most important thing is to get all the information about the criminal behavior of George Bush out in the open. The public needs to know what has really gone on for the last 5 years. That will turn the tide away from Republicans and help usher in a Democratic landslide, no matter what happens with impeachment. Hold investigative hearings and we'll see where that takes us.

[NCarolinawoman]

19. Agree. Wes Clark keeps bringing that point home.

He says we have to find out why we got into Iraq after 911 and firmly believes that it was all rigged by Cheney and company. He also thinks we have to look into the National Security Agency and find out what they are really up to, and feels strongly that there is much more to this beneath the surface. He also is afraid that the Abramoff (spelling?) scandel might be swept under the rug under the current Congress. (He spoke of this on Stephanopolous show two weeks ago).

Of course, I am one of Clark's supporters and totally agree with him on this. "Accountability" is soooo important. After what really happened is established (hopefully under our new Congress), then impeachment can follow.

[Benhurst]

3. Nothing is going to get fixed until Lord Pissypants is on his

way to the Hague.

[wtbymark]

4. well, Sanders will be capable of getting a lot done in the senate

In the house, he's sort of an island. Teaming up with Leahy and the other dems in the senate, hopefully they will be able to reverse a lot of BushCo pro-corperate policies - and tax cuts to the wealthy. In effect it will render chimpy a lame duck and impeachment at that point will be symbolic.

[LaurenG]

5. Not

Sure there are tons of things to do but bush needs to be stopped. He does whatever he wants without care. He follows NO rules or laws. Get him impeached and send the whole party a message. Then get on with the repair after all if you have a plumbing leak you need to turn off the water before you try to repair it.

[Independent_Liberal]

24. OhioBlues: "after all if you have a plumbing leak you need to turn off...

...the water before you try to repair it."

You said it. Bernie doesn't know what he's talking about.

:)

[MadMaddie]

6. I agree that there are many things that must be fixed..

however; I disagree that they should not Impeach.....if the Democrats do not push the Impeachment process they will be seen as weak....

* broke the law as the sitting president and it must go down in the historical records....so the same problems can be avoided...

The investigations must be thorough because when all of the crimes are publicized the American people will not be satisfied with letting these criminals walk....they will demand an Impeachment..and criminal charges filed...

If it is seen an eye for an eye to bad..... if that is what it takes to enforce the law then so be it!!

It's not really an eye for an eye....Clinton got a BJ lied and nobody died....

* lied, cheated, misled, misinformed, broke national and international laws....and the death count is not done rising....two American cities were destroyed on his watch....

[Fridays Child]

7. I guess we can't expect congressional Dems to walk and chew gum.

But that's okay because I don't expect them to re-take the House, either. Sorry for the pessimism but we all know who controls election outcomes, and it's not the voters.

[onehandle]

8. I do agree that it will be difficult to do quickly.

A Democratic congress will need to do a Lot of repair work right away, I agree with that too.

However, investigations will need to be started and I believe will be.

Bush will be a lame duck and penned up much like Saddam was. We can deal with him after some time and much investigation.

I predict that Cheney will resign when we retake Congress. The Bush Administration will be powerless starting in January of 2007.

[demswin06]

10. Impeach Bush

This criminal must be held accountable for his crimes. If the right impeached Clinton for a consensual blow job,then Bush could be impeached every freaking day of the week and some left over for next week. I agree that the Dems shouldn't impeach Bush at noon on January 3,2007,but should wait....about five minutes then let the son of a bitch have it,and then take out Cheney,Dumsfeld,Rice,and every other liar,crook and criminal associated with Bush.

[skylarmae]

11. What, they can't do two things at once?

IMHO it is so important not to let all the lies and deaths and squandered monies etc. go unanswered. He must be held accountable for his actions, especially the 'breaking the law' NSA spying actions.

If he gets away with it, it sets precident...

What ever happened to 'We are a Nation of Laws' credo?

[ProSense]

12. I agree, and in Sander's own words he agrees with the people of Vermont

Investigation, win back the Congress, fix the mess and impeach if the evidence from the investigations justifies impeachment. I'm confident the investigations will justify impeachment.

3/14/2006, Statement of Congressman Sanders regarding:
There's more than one way to hold the Bush administration accountable


I can very well understand why the citizens of Newfane, Putney, Dummerston, Marlboro and Brookfield voted to support the impeachment of President Bush and to ask me, as Vermont's Congressman, to introduce those articles.

It is my view that President Bush's Administration has been a disaster for our country, and a number of actions that he has taken may very well have been illegal. As I said immediately following the votes, I congratulate those involved in these resolutions for calling attention to the very dangerous policies of this administration and I hope that these votes will help spur conversation throughout the country about the need for fundamental change.

Unfortunately, with Republicans controlling both the House and the Senate and serving as a virtual rubber stamp for the White House, Congressional leaders have consistently refused to hold any serious hearings on Bush's apparent abuses of power or misguided decisions.

Congress needs to fulfill its constitutional responsibility to oversee the President by examining the facts surrounding this administration's conduct, but this will not happen so long as the Republicans control the leadership in every committee in the House of Representatives.

If people are serious about wanting to change the direction of this country and get real investigations into what the Bush Administration has done, we must end the one-party government that we currently have and win the elections in November.

As a member of Congress who helped lead the opposition to the war, I believe that we need a thorough and serious examination into what the White House knew about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction before the war and the Administration's conduct during the war.

As someone vigorously opposed to the President's disastrous record on civil liberties, I believe we also need an extensive probe into the legality of President Bush's program to spy on American citizens without congressional or judicial oversight. Once those hearings take place we can let the facts take us wherever they lead.

But Congress must conduct these investigations first for there to be any basis for impeachment hearings. While a number of us have demanded that this happen, I have very little confidence that it will occur under Republican rule.

In my view, those of us who are outraged by the conduct of the Bush Administration must focus our time and energy into ending Republican control over the House and Senate.

From one end of this country to the other we must bring people together to end the one-party government that currently rules our nation. Then, we can not only have serious investigations into the actions of this administration, but can begin making government work for all Americans rather than just wealthy campaign contributors.

Again, I want to express my support for those Vermonters who are increasingly alarmed by the conduct of President Bush and who spoke out during Town Meeting Day. Your voices helped to bring the failed policies of this Administration to light and I look forward to working with you to put our country back on the right track.


http://bernie.house.gov/documents/document.asp?issueNum=4816

[ProSense]

23. Sanders signs on to impeachment probe

Sanders signs on to impeachment probe

MONTPELIER, Vt. -- U.S. Rep. Bernard Sanders said Thursday he had signed on as a co-sponsor to legislation calling for an investigation into whether President Bush has committed impeachable offenses.

But the independent congressman said he continues to believe talk of impeachment is premature on the merits and impractical so long as Republicans control both the House and Senate.

"You can't talk about impeachment unless you have the facts," Sanders said. "Unlike Republicans who were prepared to impeach (President) Clinton because of his sexual behavior, I regard impeachment as far more serious than that."

Nevertheless, Sanders said he had responded to votes in five Vermont town meetings last week calling for Bush's impeachment by signing on as a co-sponsor to legislation submitted by Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., last year.

more...

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4643011&nav=menu183_5_8

[radio4progressives]

13. Bernie will vote for it, if the Dems move to impeach...

Because he is an independent, the issue isn't something Bernie can push the Democratic Party to do. The democratic party has to take the intiative, Bernie will certainly vote for it if comes up for a Senate vote after the House passes it.. But I don't think it's Bernie's role to take a leadership role on that issue. this our fight, it's our issue and we need to press our reps to move forward on it.

[Strawman]

14. There needs to be a vision beyond impeachment

or Bush sucks and right now there just isn't any consensus among Dems on that. If impeachment is the unifying theme for Democrats, that's not enough. Maybe impeachment should be a potential means to delegitimize the conservative agenda but my worry is that it will be an all consuming end of it's own. I'm skeptical about it. I think it is a blind alley and at best, perhaps a pyrrhic victory. Take back Congress, have an agenda and form a consensus based upon progressive ideas and portray Bush as a representative of a failed ideology who is standing in the way. Then we might actually be able to do something meaningful with power for the first time in a long time in 2008. We better have something else to offer besides impeachment if we retake Congress or we're fucked. McCain or Guliani or someone running against "politics as usual" will come in and blow us away in our own blue state backyards.

It could be impeachment, it could be censure, or it could just be forceful, principled opposition with a progressive vision. To me the calls for impeachment and censure mostly represent grassroots appeals to their elected Democratic representatives to sack up already, band together and take on this President. In that regard, I'm in total agreement. Does he deserve impeachment? Yes. Are there moral, legal and constitutional warrants for impeachment? Yes. Is that the most productive use of our energy? I'm not convinced that it is. That's a massive undertaking that is unlikely to succeed and crowd everything else out and saying things like "we can walk and chew gum" really understates that fact. But I completely agree with the sentiment that our elected reps need to fight harder and shout louder. I'm sure Bernie Sanders does also.

[radio4progressives]

20. exactly.. it's either now or never...

so that's the main essential problem isn't it?

these fascists bastards will get away with the murdering, death and destruction around the world and our own country - and probably have a monument built in their commoration.

[Broadslidin]

15. All His Life, "Blood Lust Bush" Has been Given a Pass.... Nuts.....!

Ever since this blood lusting malignant Narcissist Bush
got away with the insider Harken Energy stock sale,
he has figured, he is above all law.

And Representative Sanders is just another shoddy example
of someone who is all to eager to give Mr. Bush
a pass.

[Strawman]

16. There's more at stake than teaching Chimpy a life lesson

Sanders is right

[Minnesota Libra]

17. Stained blue dresses are always more important than the Consitution ......

.....we all know that.:sarcasm:

[ReaderSushi]

18. Tis true.

For starters, the American people have a bad taste left over from the last impeachmentbut more importantly, GWB is a lame duck and could do littleeven in the immediate aftermath of his election, he'll accomplish less after the november elections.

Better yet: Turn the lame duck into an albatross for the republicans.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. One thing he could do, and no doubt will if he is left in a position

to, is pardon all the criminal. Fixing the problems does no good if the people that created the problems just come back in another six or eight years. How many of the Reagan criminals are up to their necks in the current administration? If they'd really been held accountable, much less of this current damage could have been done.

Impeach!

[Jack Rabbit]

22. "Looked upon as and eye for an eye thing"

That doesn't mean that it actually will be an eye for an eye thing. The fact is that Bush has committed numerous and serious impeachable offenses while Clinton was impeached, really, not for a tacky affair or even lying about it, but for being a Democrat. If Bush were guilty of nothing more serious than lying about some personal matter, then it would be an eye for an eye thing; if Clinton were guilty of lying to start an unnecessary war, then he, too, would have deserved to be impeached and charged as a war criminal, as Bush does.

While I agree with Mr. Sanders that it will be more important to clean up the mess that Bush has made, it will be easier to accomplish that with his arrogant ass out of the way. In addition, we must not forget that the wasted deaths of over two thousand American servicemen and countless Iraqis whom the regime even refuses to count, in addition to violating the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture, make Mr. Bush one of the major criminals in modern history, right up there with -- you guessed it -- Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

[Generator]

25. I can understand that but Has he heard of this place: IRAN

that this insane man called Bush and his minions(or the other way around either way) Ms. Rice, Mr. Bolton, Mr.Cheney and their seeming endless obsession with forcing a military solution if Iran doesn't jump as high as they say? Has he noticed that? It usually gets the top billing in my local Oregonian-as if we are being warned here-WAR WITH IRAN is coming. Some say it's impossible. But I see the rhetoric. Read LBN. I know we have so many issues-but if stopping Bush from getting us into a forty year war isn't reason enough to impeach him and expose this sham of a presidency I don't know WHAT is. It's more important than all these other issues-and it relates to them all. Why do think their is a record debt? WAR. More war will not solve our problems. Neuter Bush. Neuter Cheney. Call it impeachment or not. Just stop him from sending our children to war for their lifetime. Okay? Take away his needing to spy and torture-take away this sham war rhetoric. Someone please speak sense. I see none in this country.

[MH1]

26. I agree that it shouldn't be a top priority - yet.

I believe that * is really and truly incompetent and much worse is yet to come. If it is as bad as I think, * will one of these days start failing irrevocably, undeniably horribly (yes I know he already is, but I mean undeniably for the masters of denial), and at that point it does become a priority.

However I think at the moment there is not a chance in hell of either impeachment or censure succeeding - based on what I know. Perhaps something new will come to light that changes the picture. And, without true disaster looming that Americans can really understand, Sanders and Hartmann would be right, it would be discounted as "revenge."

And without removing * from office, what does it get us? And with removing * from office we would only get Cheney - some improvement, huh.

Meanwhile, horrible things are being done to America and Americans, and wherever Democrats can impede or reverse those things, that's what they should be giving priority to.

So, in essence I agree with Sanders and Hartmann. (I am actually surprised Hartmann is taking this position. I like him a lot, but at times he's seemed a little too radical for me. So if he's taking this position...hmmm. Maybe it's not so "cowardly" after all.)

[many a good man]

27. Congress has a DUTY to investigate wrongdoing

They have a duty to follow the rule of law wherever it takes them.

Nevertheless, the most important thing is the welfare of our country. I propose making a deal with whatever White House officials aren't in jail by next January:

No impeachment in exchange for privately ceding all control of government to Dems and moderates. Bush fires Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld. Makes no decision without Congressional consent. He can continue to play the figurehead and avoid the shame and embarrassment of being the first president ever removed from office. In exchange we secretly begin the transition to Democratic rule two years early.

With enough pressure from all sides it can be done.

[Cocoa]

28. I agree with him

I often do. :bounce:

[Auntie Bush]

29. I see where he's coming from....The GOP is again using fear tactics

to gain votes for congress in '06. Rove is telling them they must vote for bush (even though they think he's a lousy president) because if they let Dems take control we will impeach bush...and they don't want that to happen to their dear boy. They want him to just gracefully fade out of the picture in 2008 so they can keep selling his trickle down economics...just like they did regarding Ray-gun. The GOP can count on the fools to vote against their own interests. Haven't they already proved that?

Bernie's right...we do have so many other IMPORTANT life saving business to attend to first. Then we can impeach him later.
Maybe not even later. The Rethugs will be so angry...they won't vote for our guy and we do need some cross over votes to win. Although you won't catch me crying if they do.

Come to think of it...maybe I'd rather just sit here and watch them all sh*t in their pants as they watch his poll numbers sink into the low teens or single digits. That would be a bigger embarrassment to his legacy than impeachment which they would just blame us as being vindictive. If he goes down in history as having the lowest poll numbers of any president...It would make my day!!!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. I'm glad that someone has said out loud what I have been thinking

Serious and credible investigations should be a top priority though

[rman]

31. We could skip impeachment and put m behind bars

straight away.
Does Bernie not agree that the W gang has committed serious crimes?

[mmonk]

32. Then, effectively there should be no remedy

for the people when elected officials go against the consitution or break the law. Get rid of impeachment altogether. I join all who believe political following is much more important than be protected against tyranny. Screw the founding followers and safeguards of freedom.