Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Your worst suspicions are (probably) true

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:34 PM
Original message
Your worst suspicions are (probably) true
It's funny how some stories go from wild-eyed conspiracy theories, to suspicions with no proof, to certainties, to fact, sometimes in a short period of time.

For example, there were stories that came out shortly after Bush was handed the presidency by Scalia, in which American citizens' right to assemble and protest the President peacefully on public property was being curtailed by the Secret Service. "Surely that can't be true," I thought. "Even if it were, people will recognize how ugly and unconstitutional that is and stop it." But the stories kept coming, and quickly turned into fact. By the 2004 election, even the Democratic party was sequestering protesters in chain-link fenced "first amendment zones" for the national convention. Conspiracy theory had turned to nightmarish norm in less than four years.

After 9/11, there were wild conspiracy theories that Bush had warning about the attacks and didn't do anything. Vague rumors to that effect came out slowly. Eventually, George Tennant confirmed it. And then the proof was revealed in the President's daily brief of August 6, 2001 (released to the world about 3 years later). Once again, our awful, laughable suspicions proved only too correct.

Then, in the run-up to war, there was the suspicion that Bush had planned to go to war with Iraq all along, that war in Iraq was one of the reasons it was so important that the war profiteers made sure he got installed as president. It surely seemed that way watching him warmonger and lie to get us into Iraq. Those vaguely uneasy feelings were confirmed by Richard Clarke and Paul O’Neill (both after they had left the administration, conveniently). On top of that, there is the stated invasion plans for Iraq published by the Project for a New American Century from 1998. Also their statement that what this country really needed was a “new Pearl Harbor” (which has since been removed from their “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” report – even they seem to have some kind of sense of shame or at least bad publicity – but you can read all about it at Wikipedia), which proves that while there is still doubt that this administration directly caused 9/11, there is ample proof that many of them didn’t think it would be such a bad thing. Most of the authors of that report had or have high positions in the Bush administration.

Colin Powell’s presentation to the UN on scary Iraq was initially hailed as a great success, with only small, nagging suspicions that he was talking out of his hat. Three years later, this speech is roundly considered Powell’s lowest moment (even lower than covering up the My Lai massacre or his involvement with Iran-Contra), filled with untruths and mendacity that he knew to be false at the time.

For a long while, people suspected that this administration was using the PATRIOT act to spy on Americans, and probably without a warrant. At first Bush denied this, then the NY Times found out it wasn’t true and sat on the story for a year (wouldn’t want to hurt Bushy’s re-election chances by revealing blatant law-breaking now, would we, NYT?) while Bush continued to tell bald-face lie after bald face lie about it. Finally, the suspicions became accusations which were denied until they couldn’t be denied any longer. And now the administration declares that yes, of course, they were breaking the law for our own good, and what are we going to do about it? Suspicion becomes truth.

At every turn, we find that our worst, most far flung, suspicions do not give these mendacious thieves enough credit for the depths they will sink to.

Finally, we come to the war itself. For a long time, it was suspected that Bush was driving us into a war that he himself knew was unnecessary, illegal, and avaricious. Since that time, it has certainly been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he knew he was lying. We know now that he suggested ways to provoke Saddam into providing a justification for a war against Iraq. And we know now that Bush’s main excuses for war, uranium ore and aluminum tubes, were both known by this administration to be bogus. Joe Wilson’s NY Times op-ed piece, and the controversy that grew out of it, forced Bush to back off his yellowcake claims. And now it seems there is documentary evidence that this government knew that the aluminum tube claims they were making were completely bogus as well. And that protecting the existence of that document until the 2004 elections were safely over explains why Rove and Libby would risk perjury charges to hide what was going on.

. . . according to Waas, since October 2002 there has existed a smoking-gun that proved Bush had been told that some intelligence officials thought the tubes were for conventional weapons, not nukes -- well before he repeated the tale in his 2003 speech.
...

That leads to the second, equally important point. Waas also reports that Rove thought as early as the summer of 2003 that the document was radioactive enough to potentially destroy Bush's re-election chances. Waas adds that Bush advisers thought that if doubts about the tubes came out, it would be much harder to shield Bush from criticism for them than it was for the uranium tale -- because there apparently existed hard evidence that the president had been told of those doubts.
...

Thanks to Waas, for the first time, we may now know for a fact that Rove and other Bush advisers viewed the truth about the run-up to war as something that could destroy his re-election prospects. It is entirely plausible that Bush advisers calculated that if it came out that they’d outed Plame, Congress would have been forced by the resulting firestorm to run a far more aggressive investigation of Bush’s pre-war deceptions – and possibly uncover the smoking gun Waas reports on, among other things. Remember, Libby and Rove testified in early 2004, during the heat of a presidential campaign which Rove himself had apparently concluded was at risk if existing hard evidence of Bush’s deceptions surfaced.

So it seems plausible that Libby and Rove sought to minimize the chance of the aggressive congressional oversight that might have resulted if it became known that they’d outed Plame. In short, misleading the grand jury about Plame may simply have been a key piece of a broader effort to get past the election before the truth about the run-up to the war surfaced to sink his campaign.
...
White House officials, including Bush himself, withheld critical information it had about doubts over supposed evidence of Saddam's nuke ambitions in order to better make the case for war. Then they subsequently discovered that hard evidence existed of that duplicity. Then, anxious that this evidence might surface before the 2004 reelection, they engaged in a relentless campaign to cover up what really happened during the Iraq run-up and to prevent an aggressive congressional investigation until after the election. They relied on Pat Roberts to run a pseudo-investigation; they withheld the daily briefs; they leaned on Hill allies not to talk to the press. And they obscured their role in the outing of Plame to prevent an outcry that would have certainly forced Congress and the press to probe far more aggressively than they did. And they succeeded: If Congress and the press had been more aggressive -- and this may be the real significance of Waas's story -- it's perfectly possible that John Kerry would now be president.


When every bad motivation you speculate about these guys turns out to be true in spades, you begin to notice a pattern. If the pattern holds, it’s only a matter of time before we get the memos that show how the deliberate theft of the elections in 2000 and 2004 were conceived and carried out.

More here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't forget the wild accusation by Michael Moore about the
unbelievable conspiracy theory that the bin Laden family was catered to by flying them around the country during the "no-fly" period and getting them safely out of the country . . . which was later admitted to by this misAdministration . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. yep, that's another one
thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. And yet, we still have a hostile force occupying the White House.
Edited on Wed Apr-05-06 05:07 PM by electropop
America has been invaded from within and we don't have millions in the streets about it (as they have been about immigration). Yes, I was in DC on Sept 24th, but mass protests would be a daily occurrence in most countries, given the scale of crimes that are being committed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. No (or very little) independent media
it's hard to march and protest when everything you read and see sends the signal that everything is fine, nothing to see here . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. This reads like a soap opera!
Isn't it funny how it's all falling together or apart--whatever. I think the biggest fraud to come out will be the election theft........and, the sooner the better or we'll be looking at another (theft,i.e.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Conspiracy numero uno
It is the broadest, so it will take the longest to clear up. But it is becoming clearer. I doubt this year's will be stopped but after November its gonna boil over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Excuse me, but each and every one of these 'deceptions' is enough
to warrant a special prosecutor, isn't it? And there is more here than just fodder for IMPEACHMENT. There are criminal acts, are there not? Acts in which even bush** participated because he helped to cover them up thereby becoming an accessory before, during, and after the fact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Indeed, they are...That's why Congress must be ultimately held accountable
Edited on Wed Apr-05-06 04:56 PM by AzDar
as well for allowing Chimpolini and Deadeye Dick to run amuck.
It simply wouldn't have happened without a complicit Congress(with VERY few exceptions..Feingold,Conyers come immediately to mind).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Yes, but sadly the special prosecutor law was allowed to expire
right after it had done the maximum damage to Clinton. A shame, that. What a coincidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Yes
if the "perp" had a (D) behind his or her name, instead of an (R) . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. R&K
:kick:ed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wow Recomend this as the Greatest Page EVER!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. k&r
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm often amazed by the fact that I am still amazed by the corruption.
It just never seems to end.

I used to say things in passing, make flip comments -- once upon a time these kinds of comments would get me called "cynical". Now people just nod their heads and say -- "yep, you're probably right."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. my family still kind of chuckles at me and shakes their heads
about how "paranoid" I am.

Yet, the stories unfold around them everyday, and they refuse to see it.

I wouldn't mind a few more "you're probably right"s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. LOL. Well MY family lives in DelayLand. I've given up. But . . .
My friends, acquantainces, dog park buddies (even the conservatives) can see the light. And luckily are all far far away from that scary land of Delay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. most of mine no longer think i'm nuts...
they've watched my "predictions" come true one after another. except one son tied up with a pretty rabid right-winger. he's pretty deluded. don't know what he thinks about current stuff cuz he's so busy we don't get to talk often.

but, for what it's worth...whatever it is you suspect, ProfessorPlum, you're probably right! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. I call it "Outrage piled upon Outrage". Stephanie Miller (out in
Los Angeles on KTAK 1150 a.m.) has laughingly referred to this phenomenon where one doesn't know whether the newest outrage is "news" or a headline in "The Onion" because they're so hard to believe.

I remember right after 9/11 they said the age of irony (a la "Seinfeld" and its ilk) was over. It's actually refreshing, albeit painful, to see American returning from what Blake would have called "innocence" (or naievete) to "experience" (cynicism).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. "You're gonna need a revolution..."
To drive these criminals, liars, thugs, and treasonous, corrupt thieves from the White House.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Can't Tell You HOW MANY Times I've Said The Very Same Thing!
Despite EVERYTHING, and there's quite an overload, Democrats are still sitting on ZERO!!

While America goes down the tubes and we WAIT & WAIT & WAIT for something to be done, STILL ZERO!!

Immigrants in THIS country march on American soil waving their MEXICAN flag and get scads of attention, while we are still sitting here. We should be having demonstrations EVERY month if not EVERY week! If the House & Senate remain in the hands of Repukes, I really don't know what I'll do! I'm ready to hit the pavement right now!!

And before you jump on me for the reference to the MEXICAN flag, it's only an example. Just using it to show that THEY can organize and do more in a couple of weeks than has been done in SIX years! I'm not BLAMING the immigrants, I can at least respect them for standing up for what they believe in!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Of all the things to be "outraged" about...
you emphasize the Mexican Flag as the latest...

wow. that pretty much sums up why we are at ZERO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Oh For Crying Out Loud... It Was Only
an example! The latest or the thing that popped into my head! Don't get so fired up over an "example!"

I think I tried to explain the thing! I think I began with "so many things" that have gone on! I mean YOU no disrespect... next time I'll think DEEPER! I KNOW the stuff!!!

Geeezz, we all must be getting to a breaking point. I got jumped on last night for using another example! Maybe I should just stick to "abstract!"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
50. My apologies...
Edited on Thu Apr-06-06 09:31 PM by radio4progressives
After the news of the day, and the fact that nobody is arresting Bush and Cheney - and the Democratic party is shrugging it off - makes me feel like I'm going insane - that we are living in Twilight Zone.

People are attacking Cynthia Mckinney based on half truths and misinformation - and the goddam world is falling apart and our fearless leaders are allowing it all to go on like there is nothing weird happening here...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Well Compadre... We're On The SAME Page!!
I didn't blog much tonight because I don't want to hear all the "goodies" we have on BushCo, that way when it goes down the tubes I won't get so freaking OUTRAGED!

Hopefully they won't be "featuring" McKinney again after "they" got to her and made her do the mea culpa!

I can't WAIT til they get their due, IF that will ever happen. I'm tired of screaming into my TV!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. Most americans are too busy shopping at walmart & watching american idol
to give a shit about some corruption, crimes and treason.

Priorities and all, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. My worst suspicion? Who is really behind 9-11
There....I said it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. we no longer need to identify specificially who, we already know ...
what needs to be done, is expose these bastards.. at least put the questions out there, and why do you suppose they're going after Cynthia McKinney? Because that's what she does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. McKinney is a serious foe of these bastards. Google
Crusader missile+McKinney. She tried to expose the greed and corruption surrounding this project and was attacked viciously. She's what a Democrat should be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sunkiss BlueStar Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. EXACTLY!
I hear them every day on local radio demeaning McKinney. It all leads back to 9/11 though. The theme is always like this "Anyone who thinks there government would attack its own people is an idiot" and this is daily.

but they'll tell you that Saddam killed his own people so thats a reason to invade Iraq- go fig?:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hestia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Exactly
"They" are going after Cynthia because they can't shut her up. I wonder when they will start going after Feingold?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. Rigged elections.
Not just in Florida in 2000. Not just in Ohio in 2004.

Not just Diebold, not just DREs.

Much, much more.

The bogus elections supply the fundamental lie that these evildoers somehow represent the American people.

Or, as the button gal who posts at DU would say:



Step One: Steal Election
Step Two: Steal Everything

http://pinkobuttons.com/buttons.html?Democracy+2
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PublicWrath Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. In my opinion, rigged elections are the one and only thing
that would really, truly offend bush supporters in the heartland. They can stomach Abu Ghraib, but they wouldn't approve of fraudulent elections one little bit. If we could prove it, that is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. they have been proved and re-verified several times
Edited on Wed Apr-05-06 06:19 PM by TheBaldyMan
checkout www.gregpalast.com for the original 2000 election theft as well as 'caging' and other illegal practices in 2004.

on edit: for more info on 2004 fraud go to www.markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com it also has info on the continuing attempts at ballot box stuffing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PublicWrath Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks, I'll certainly read those this evening....
What I'm hoping is that someone directly involved with rigging the 2004 will come forward.
Maybe somebody who worked for one of the vendors was approached and will
produce some tapes or something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. there was a lot of criticism of the result from various quarters
and if I remmber correctly the chairman of Diebold said the result was in the bag for republicans months if not years before the '04 election. That is a matter of record.

Election monitors, exit polls and independant reporters all have small parts of the puzzle. Compared to the methods for electronic voting in other countries (e.g. Australia) the American system is wide open to fraud by various means and almost completely closed to independent scrutiny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. You need to think about your definitions of "proof."
One whistleblower who helped rig, and had tapes, and was ready to go to the media -- their life would be worth less than 5 cents.

Think about what this administration has done, and tell me that this would be beyond their morals -- go ahead, tell me.

Don't wait for the "Justice" Department to prove it either.

Don't wait for Congress to have hearings -- only the majority party can hold hearings with subpoenas. Rep. Conyers and other Dems are reduced to holding meetings in Capitol basements, without benefit of subpoena power, because they are not the party in power.

For proof, I think the most convincing is this:

Imagine, for a minute, if Congress and the President KNEW that they don't have to answer to the people, because the elections aren't real.

Think about how responsive they would be to the issues that are important to the people of this country -- national debt, war in Iraq, health care, New Orleans and hurricane recovery, social security, job creation, environment -- if they KNEW that they don't have to answer to the people.

Now, think for a minute about reality -- how responsive have they been.

Compare.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. there are some further links here
I apologise if I am directing you to information you have already recovered:

VerifiedVoting.org has various sources listed here

FreePress.org article by Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman

there are quite a few sites out there. Hopefully, there will be transparent vote counting from now on in the tates and the damage done in the past few years will be restored.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. you have more faith in them than I do.....
I think they would let Bushco sacrifice a baby on the capitol steps long as he said God told him to do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. That's good, but...
you haven't hit my worst suspicions yet.

Bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PublicWrath Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Please tell.......What are your worst suspicions? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Some are well documented...
like CIA drug smuggling. Some are obvious, like the government doesn't run the country, the people who run the banks and major corporations do. The only things that I would call a "suspicion" at this time is thoughts about how far the PTB will go to make a buck, and how many will die because of this. I don't know the answer to that.

Bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. nor mine
What these criminals get caught doing is only the tip of the iceberg, to be sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. I think we're already seeing the damage.
Only a month or two ago, Jack Abramoff publicly threatened to start naming names on March 29th if his sentencing wasn't delayed. At about the same time, the prosecutors in the case asked for a delay... in order to facilitate cooperation, they said.

So which was Jack threatening to do? Talk, or clam up? I think the government was begging the court to keep Jack free lest he start talking.

March 29th came, and Abramoff was sentenced.

Less than a week later, Tom DeLay resigned.

I think Jack talked. Specifically, I think he talked about the stolen election of 2000, and Tom DeLay's role in it.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. Back a little further (1990) there was a provocation of Saddam
by Kuwait stealing oil by angle-drilling under the border. I found out about this about 10 years ago and started looking into it further. I quickly realized what a crop of vile fascist bastards the Bushies are. There rise to power is a horror story for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Go Back to the Coo of 1963 and there was a Bush there TOO
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/

In a memorandum of FBI director J Edgar Hoover to the State department, dated 29 November 1963. It describes a meeting, one day after JFK's murder, between FBI and CIA officials talking about the reaction of the Cuban exile community to the Kennedy Assassination. The last paragraph states that the "the substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to us and George Bush of the Central Intelligence agency". Here we have the name of George Bush mentioned as a CIA official in direct connection to the Kennedy assassination. When asked by journalists, he initially stated "It's not me, must be another Bush!" This was checked and found to be NOT true. When asked again, a spokesperson for Bush declined to comment any further. The obvious question is: Why does Bush need to lie about it?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alterfurz Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. it's all summed up nicely by William Blum:
"No matter how paranoid or conspiracy-minded you are,
what the government is actually doing is worse than
you imagine."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Whoa, that's a sobering quote
That makes my cynicism quote look optimistic by comparison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
53. Helluva quote there. And who is that William Blum?
The the author of "Killing Hope," I assume? If they're the same I guess I must read that book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
40. y'know, i have lived long enough to trust my gut and all along
my gut said that the "election" of 2000 was a coup by a fascist junta. and that the widespread problems with e-voting in 2004 were simply a way to "legitimize" continuity of power for the junta. one of the primary goals of said government was to enrich the primary players and their cronies...and wonder of wonders...look at the cash they have amassed in the past six years!

and now, i see evidence of crumbling support for the ruling junta, but also note the arrogance with which * and his staff now thumb their noses at Congress, at the rule of law, and at the Constitution. 'Fraid that if my worst suspicions are eventually confirmed, there will be one of two scenarios -

1) bush locks down the gov't and nation under his war powers and the dictatorship continues (though I think the powers that be are no longer happy with the kid and his advisors and so they may not support this option and it will hopefully not be long-lived)

2) bushco relunctantly reliquish power to those who have been pre-selected by the powers-that-be through our so-called democratic process (which is now a joke) and the gang goes off into the sunset with their filthy lucre - and start scheming about how to take back their power.

either way we're screwed, or only slightly less screwed (but blissfully rejoicing about the revival of our great democracy)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is a great post. David Ray Griffin (in "The New Pearl Harbor") makes
the interesting point that nay-sayers to BFEE LIHOP and MIHOP object to "conspiracy theory" thinking, and yet their own theory of 9/11 presumes a conspiracy among Saudi, Yemeni, and UAE hijackers.

So, in essence, acc. to Griffin, we are asked to pick between two conspiracies. The dominant narrative has chosen a conspiracy of "wild-eyed Muslim fanatics" but there is a fairly compelling case for an alternative narrative of a conspiracy by BFEE and its cronies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. First Amendment Zones pre-date this Administration

To the best of my knowledge they first appeared in 1996 at the Republican National Convention in San Diego, then a couple weeks later outside the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. It appears to have been a bipartisan agreement during Clinton's presidency.

When people in power with extremely opposite views on how the country should be run occassionaly get together and agree on something ... it is usually something that extends or maintains their power.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. what a terrible decision on both of their parts
Ugh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
51. None of those really meet my definition
Edited on Thu Apr-06-06 10:00 PM by depakid
of conspiracy theory. Quite plausible- each and every one of them, given what we knew about the facts and the actors at the time.

Anyone paying attention- and who refused to be misinformed by watching TV "news" or reading stories in the so called "mainstream" media could have called each and every one of those shots.

Some did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC