Bush may have commited a felony by aiding Libbey avoid prosecution.

[APPLE314]

Bush by not coming forward with the information in a timely matter, set events in place that ensnared Libbey in a "perjury charge- ie; lying to a grand jury." Bush, having participated in the original leak, even if tangentially, was an interested party in the conspiracy to lie to the Grand Jury, by his silence. All of this arm's lenght bullshit will not hold up and will disintegrate when they (Bush and Cheney) will be forced to testify ( under oath ) in Libbey's trial.

The president will not be able to pardon Libbey because it is (high crime and misdemeanors) issue.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

1. The Pretzel-Dunce is already on the hook for obstruction

Obstruction of justice is a felony, when you tell lies to a prosecutor when not under oath.

[benburch]

3. Not to mention TREASON. nt

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

8. Not to mention gross abuse of power in wartime

If the penalties for wartime spying are worse, then the penalty for wartime abuse of power should be worse as well.

[benburch]

10. There is only ONE penalty for Treason.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

12. I had hoped he'd end up on a meat hook, like Mussolini

But the gallows would work. I'd be there cheering.

[benburch]

13. If legally convicted by a jury of his peers, of course.

I can be legal no other way.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

15. Of course, if convicted in a court of law

nm

[unblock]

2. shrub WILL be able to pardon libby

there's no restriction on the power of the pardon.

it would be politically unseemly to issue an ultimately self-serving pardon, but hell, poppy pardoned weinberger and got away with it, so....

[Quakerfriend]

5. Is this true, even if *co. was complicit in the crime?

[unblock]

6. afraid so. the only check and balance on the pardon is impeachment.

and impeachment doesn't even undo the pardon.

[Lasher]

7. Poppy pardoned Weinberger and 5 other defendants

On December 24, 1992, outgoing president George Bush pardoned former secretary of defense Caspar Weinberger and five other defendants, asserting that it was "time for the country to move on." But independent counsel Lawrence Walsh, who spent more than seven years and $40 million unraveling the scandal and issued his own report on it in January 1994, saw it differently. "The Iran-Contra coverup," he said, "... has now been completed."

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/reagan.htm

This effectively shut down the Iran-Contra investigation, which certainly would have further implicated Poppy and Saint Ronnie of Reagan.

And remember when Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon for all crimes he might have committed?

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Poppy was never implicated himself

He made sure he was out of the loop.

Bush just put himself in the middle of the loop, so he will not get away with pardoning any of his cohorts at this point.

[Lasher]

17. It was Poppy's assertion that he was "out of the loop" on Iran-Contra

There were those who were highly skeptical of this claim, and they had good reason to be. Consider this and decide for yourself if Poppy knew about the Iran-Contra scandal:

Except that the minutes from the June 1984 meeting of the National Security Planning Group demonstrated a distinct eagerness to deal with terrorist states, as long as it helped to illegally fund the Contras in Nicaragua. And the minutes show that George was there:

McFARLANE: There seems to be no prospect that the Democratic leadership will provide for any vote on the Nicaraguan program.

PRESIDENT REAGAN: It all hangs on support for the anti-Sandinistas. How can we get that support in the Congress? We have to be more active.

KIRKPATRICK: If we can't get the money for the anti-Sandinistas, then we have to make the maximum effort to find the money elsewhere.

SCHULTZ: I would like to get the money for the Contras also, but ... Jim Baker said that if we go out and try to get the money from third countries, it is an impeachable offense.

CASEY: Jim Baker said that if we try to get money from third countries without notifying the oversight committees it could be a problem.

SCHULTZ: Baker's argument is that the U.S. government may raise and spend funds only through an appropriation of the Congress.

PRESIDENT REAGAN: We must obtain the funds to help these freedom fighters.

VICE PRESIDENT BUSH: The only problem that might come up is if the United States were to promise to give these third parties something in return, so that some people could interpret this as some kind of an exchange.

McFARLANE: I certainly hope none of this discussion will be made public in any way.

But an apparent lack of documentation allowed Bush to claim that he had never been "in the loop" regarding the Boland amendment violations.

REPORTER: Did you know about the Contra aid or not?

VICE PRESIDENT BUSH: I sensed that there were -- that we were sending arms. And I sensed we were trying to get hostages out. But not arms for hostages.

REPORTER: Did you not begin to smell a rat here?

VICE PRESIDENT BUSH: Not really, no. I could see that it was -- got a little close, but not, not, enough to say -- no, this is not arms, that this is purely arms for hostages.

As Senator Bob Dole put it, "The record is that he was either absent or silent. I don't know what that does for him."

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/george-hw-bush/

As I said, Poppy's pardons effecitively shut down the Iran-Contra investigation which, if it were to have continued, would have further implicated him and Saint Ronnie of Reagan.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. Don't get me wrong

Many of us knew Poppy was full of it, but without access to info like we have now there was no 'proof'. Besides he mostly pardoned people from Reagan's administration. He only did a couple from his own. It is bad form, to say the least, to try to pardon your own
people, especially now that Bush has admitted to being a party to these crimes.

[Lasher]

4. I think Bush is guilty of obstruction

He and Scotty repeatedly lied about not knowing who the leakers were. How can that not be obstruction?

[kestrel91316]

9. Bush can pardon anyone he wants, any time he wants, for any reason

or no reason at all. The only recourse is impeachment, and this Congress will NEVER do it. Even if the Dems win control in Nov I seriously doubt the big boys (DINOs) will impeach. Some nonsense about not wanting to appear "tit-for-tat" (with Clinton) and wanting to move forward and put the conflicts behind us.

I think we are being set up for MORE OF THE SAME.

[APPLE314]

11. i think some crimes do not allow pardons - I'll check.

[APPLE314]

14. you're right - impeachment is the way

Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.


Section 4 - Disqualification

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.


I have problems parsing this. Was Libbey acting as a civil officer? Is Impeachment trumped by pardoning.



From what I see here it appears you are right and Impeachment is the only recourse. Bush could pardon Libbey for lying to Fitzgerald but Libbey could then be impeached because he is acting as a Civil officer of the United States and guilty of lying to a Grand Jury. This the president could not stop under Section 4. Any attempt at pardoning would be fatal to the Republican party. This is a Hobson's choice for the Rep's, with no good solutions.

Is my logic circular?

[Jane Austin]

19. Bush can and will do anything he damn well pleases.

Because they have established that he is simply above the law.