Am I the only one with no stand on Immigration?

[gizmo1979]

I'm torn between the two sides,I want Americans to have jobs and not have their wages suppressed,on the other hand I'm for immigrants having a chance because that's what America has always stood for.So I don't know which side I'm supposed to be on.Someone convince me.

[Ilsa]

1. You are not alone.

It feels to me like a really tough issue. Immigration and illegal immigration get blamed for alot of our ills.

I think our low minimum wage should bear some (alot) blame.

I think we should prosecute CEO's and those that hire illegal immigrants.

I think currently illegal immigrants should go through what our ancestors went through to become citizens: a time period, exams, etc.

I question the old documentation that said illegal immigrants "pay their way" in taxes for benefits and healthcare, given the huge increases in the cost of healthcare these days.

But that is just a start. I could probably be persuaded to change my mind.

Edited for content.

[Caoimhe]

3. You fascist!

I basically said the same thing you just said in a chat room and was called a fascist pig by people I thought were clear thinking liberals.

[gizmo1979]

17. How could they equate that to

facism?Some people are weird.

[IndyJones]

30. I'm with you. Also, the border states simply cannot shoulder the

costs as much as they do. The feds must pay for them and not keep the burden on states like CA. And they must, must, must learn to speak English.

[guinivere]

2. No, you aren't the only one.

I haven't made up my mind. The only thing I do know is that trying to deport 11 mil people is a goofy idea.

[gizmo1979]

Yes that makes no sense

what so ever.And letting everyone in doesn't make sense either.Other than that I'm open to suggestion.

[LaurenG]

4. Be fair to everyone, compromise here and there and viola

you have a plan. Too many angry people do not make for happy agreements. I'll guess that if this gets more than 10 hits it will turn into a flame fest. However, I hope not.

[rodeodance]

5. the ones here can stay (if go through the proposed Kennedy plan)--

[movonne]

6. I feel the same way...

[Sven77]

7. i think its horrible

driving our wages down, we need a wall. get these people out. they are ILLEGALS, shouldnt they get to this country legally ?

[gizmo1979]

12. On the one hand I feel that way.

but I have to believe alot of very good people are here and doing very goodthings.I really feel the problem obviously lies in Mexico.We don't have this problem with Canada.If they could get their crap together and give people a decent wage.Look at China and India they have reversed their fortunes in a hurry.

[Waya]

13. You gonna load 11 million....

...people on planes? Who's gonna pay for that? Should they get into the US legally? Sure, preferably. But as it happens - a lot of them don't.

So, built a fence. Swell...like someone said today - ten-foot fences drive up the demand for 11-foot ladders, big shovels and industrial size wire cutters..........

[guinivere]

20. I also think a wall is a bad idea.

The idea of it seems kind of (for lack of a better word) snotty and isolationist. And who wants to pay for that. There are better ways to spend money.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I'm where you are ...... I care about people ..... and there are cases to

be made on both sides of this issue.

Clearly the best solution is someplace in the middle.

[sojourner]

9. i am feeling much the same way...

i am not sure i want to be convinced one way or the other. there is probably a sensible middle ground that could be discovered if there was some sensible dialogue.

[welshTerrier2]

my position is not clear on the issue

on one hand, national boundaries are a poor excuse for denying anyone access to necessary medical care or access to an education ... on the other hand, i see it as necessary to have national borders and an enlightened immigration policy ...

truthfully, i've failed to study the issue in the detail it deserves ...

[Poppyseedman]

10. Build the wall to keep the illegals out

The ones that are already here, do an easy amnesty. Citizenship in five years by doing the right things like learning english and understanding our laws and how our politics work


Once the wall is built, open a huge gate to let the ones who want to work and be productive in. As many as want to come and be Americans.

[El Supremo]

11. Me too.

But I'm against deporting all of them, building a fence or making them felons.

I'd rather deport the Republicans and let the Latinos in. :)

[gizmo1979]

16. That's the best immigration policy I've

heard yet.Are you running for office?You got my vote.

[Warpy]

14. Then put your focus where it belongs, on scumbag employers and

on a minimum wage that is set ridiculously low and allows them to exploit legal immigrants, illegal aliens, and native born Americans alike! The problem isn't the people coming across the border so they can work their asses off and live in conditions we'd call the SPCA about if they were dogs. It's about cheapass employers who want something for nothing, great workers at starvation wages. It's always been about them. It's NEVER been about the men and women hoping to save a few bucks for a better life either here or there.

LIVING WAGES NOW! LABOR LAW ENFORCEMENT NOW! PUNISH UNFAIR EMPLOYERS NOW!

[gizmo1979]

19. That's a very good point.

Like McCain saying he'd pay $50.00 an hour to anyone to pick lettuce said we couldn't do it.I could pick anything for $50.00 an hour.With repukes in charge they will never go after the employers.

[Ilsa]

21. ITA with you.

The immigration issue, in order to be fair, should also focus on employers doing the illegal hiring AND our govts requiring they pay everyone a living wage.

I've heard reports from people who live very close to the border. They said they use to meet with and feed immigrants coming across. But over the last few years, alot of the traffic has been vicious and dangerous, and has vandalized their property and robbed them. They say they now place food out away from the house to feed and water them to hopefully keep them further away. To me, it's all a sign of the desperation of the immigrants.

[Berserker]

25. This link will help

with turning in employers that hire illegals from ALL country's not just Mexico. http://www.wehirealiens.com/default.asp

Here are a few other things to consider:
* There are currently at least 12 - 15 Million illegal aliens in the U.S. (Ref)

* 8% of those employed in the U.S are illegal aliens (Ref)

* 84 California Hospitals have closed their ERs between 1994 and 2003

* Illegal immigration costs CA taxpayers $10.5 Billion each year (Ref)

* <6% of day laborers entered the country legally(Ref)

* In 1954, Pres. Eisenhower's Operation Wetback deported 1,300,000 illegal aliens in 4 months with 700 BP agents

* No. of companies fined for hiring illegal aliens:
2001 - 141 companies
2002 - 73 companies
2003 - 15 companies
As of May 2004 - 1 company

* No. of employer investigations in U.S.:
1992 - 7,053
2002 - 2,061

* No. of arrests on job sites in U.S.:
1992 - 8,027
2002 - 451

* No. of U.S. employers fined
1992 - 1,063
2002 - 13

* Illegal alien costs to federal budget:
Medicaid - $2.5 B
Uninsured treatment - $2.2 B
Food assistance - $1.9 B
Federal Prison - $1.6 B
Aid to schools - $1.4 B
Other - $800 M
Total - $10.4 B

* 33% of America's prison population are non-citizens

* 36-42% of illegal aliens are on welfare

* In Los Angeles:
95% of outstanding murder warrants are for illegal aliens
66% of outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens

* In 1999, Pennsylvania's cost to incarcerate illegal aliens was $13.3 million

* Nationwide, the cost to incarcerate illegal aliens is approx. $2 Billion annually

* Nationwide, approx. 400,000 illegal aliens who have committed further crimes, and have been given a deportation order are "whereabouts unknown"
http://www.firecoalition.com/

What part of Illegal don't people understand?

[IndyJones]

31. Great information. Living in a border state, I see the problems

with the hospitals and schools. It's terrible. Something must be done. The costs simply cannot continue to grow, especially with such little federal assistance.

[BadgerKid]

15. Nope. The other thing I don't get is

why border security is brought up in teh context of immigration and was NOT in the context of homeland security?

It smells like 'securing the borders' requires people to go along with whatever immigration measures *Co makes up.

[guinivere]

23. Hmm...if they brought it up under Homeland Security

and people are jumping over fences, then Homeland Security failed.

They can't say the high and mighty Security folks failed.

[Jim Warren]

18. Latinos divided on immigration issue

<snip>
PHOENIX (AP) — Contrary to scenes of hundreds of thousands of united Latinos marching across the country in support of immigration reform, a sizable number of the ethnic group opposes the marches and strongly objects to illegal immigration.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-10-immigration-latinos_x.htm

The Pew Hispanic Center is a pretty good place to get a view that might offer more light than heat on this issue.

http://pewhispanic.org/

[gizmo1979]

22. Now I'm really confused.

It's hard to come out against the latino's and not sound racist.Especially when you see the counter protestors.They are a bunch of fat white guys with no teeth.I sure don't want to be lumped with them.

[Igel]

24. So be your own person and ignore the labels that others

assign you.

They don't define you, you do. Ponder what you believe, what you think is legal and just, and decide where you stand--if you think you need to.

But don't take a side based on skin color or appearances.

[VirtualChicano]

26. These views are NOT common

Some "Latinos" will use this as an opportunity to become "white." White people do not have a monopoly on ignorant morons, us Latino types have our share of them as well and a good share at that.

Never believe that Latinos are monolithic. We have Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Mexican-Americans and so on, but within each group we are as diverse as Anglos are.

However, while some Latinos will adopt a mean spirited stance towards immigration, most people will, in the end, vote their conscience and do the right thing.

[Jim Warren]

28. immigration is one thing

illegal immigration is another

[FloridaPat]

27. The jobs that are leaving are being escorted to the door by the gov't

and handed over to foreign countries. These are the high paying jobs. For the first time in history, the educated are being laid off first. THe other side of that coin is they are allowing foreigners in as fast as they can get them to take what few computer jobs are left in our country. Last 2 jobs I had were about 1/2 Indians. I've been employed 2 months out of the last 24. I am not a happy camper. I think the gov't should be doing more to keep Americans employed.

Apparently a lot of the jobs the Mexicans and other come for illegally are not the computer and auto jobs. A lot of those need background checks. I lived in Miami and met a lot of immagrants. All but 1 were legal. I just don't see the problem. Rancher needs workers. Mexicans want to work the fields. Most Americans don't. Why is there a problem getting them the correct papers? The gov't sure acted fast to get foreigners in for computer jobs. Food is more important than computers.

When jobs are plentiful, not too many people care. But now that jobs aren't plentiful, and lot of Americans wonder why the gov't is not tring to save their jobs. So it ends up being a backlash against immigration. One of the news casts said that within several decades, Spanish speaking people will be the majority in the South and South West. I remember seeing some of those hypocritic religious right people saying these immagrants have a different history and if they take over, our history will be gone.
Ask the Native Americans their opinions on that one. Another comments was we are importing poverty.

I think it's time to work together. Us & Mexico. How can gov't run two countries so close so differently. Of course, we're on our way to becoming a 3rd world country anyway.

[wiley]

29. Everyone has opinions, few have stands based on fact.

This has got to be discussed at length without grandstanding, The LEGAL IMMIGRATION PROCESS is so messed up that I know people who have come here legally and have been waiting a decade for permanent residence. They pay more in taxes than many people make a year, and their not high tech people.

[distantearlywarning]

32. You are not alone.

I can't figure out what the right thing to do is either. For the moment I have decided not to adopt any position, but wait and see if I can acquire more information and wisdom about the issue before I make up my mind. I'm sorry if this makes people mad. They will just have to deal with being mad by themselves.

[JesterCS]

33. You arent alone either

Im all for immigration, IF ITS DONE legally. Do it the right way, as laws are set up for.

condoning running across the boarder and abusing assistance programs that US Citizens need is not the "American Dream"

The only reason i get a bit hot under the collar sometimes with this is.. my brother is 23 and a diabetic, with 2 kids and one on the way. If things keep up, one day my brother wont be able to get his insulin, and he'll die.

[Vidar]

34. It's just a political trap set up by Rove&co. Best to stay away.