Why Kerry gets a pass from non supporters but Dean doesn't

[MIMStigator]

I think there were alot of democrats who were sure Dean couldn't win the election and so spent more time criticizing him for everything they could find.

When Kerry won iowa and NH the anti Deans were RELIEVED that a candidate that stood a shot could win they didn't put the same force in going after Kerry even though he's not the best candidate.

I know I didn't even though I have doubts about whether Kerry can win and no doubts about Clark winning. Is this true for anybody else?

[Dookus]

1. well,

as a strong Clark supporter, let me say that I have no doubts that Kerry can beat Bush. I have always had doubts about whether Dean could. :shrug:

Just my take on it.

[Straight Shooter]

2. I have extremely serious doubts about Kerry, not about Clark

We'll begin to see an emerging picture of Kerry from the media (yes, that damned media) courtesy of the Powers That Be.

Clark is marginalized by the press and the networks because he is the genuine threat to bush. Kerry is beatable. Not guaranteed beatable, but quite possibly. Then again, what fun is an election if it isn't the dirtiest in history. So bring Kerry on.

[Dookus]

3. if you think THIS election

is the dirtiest in history, I'd humbly suggest you don't know your history very well.

[Straight Shooter]

14. Let me amend that to say in my lifetime

May we call it a draw and say it will be a contest for the dirtiest in history?

[Dookus]

33. No, I wouldn't agree...

one of my pet peeves is that people think that politics is somehow dirtier today than ever before. In fact, it's the opposite.

Public scrutiny, mass media and campaign finance laws actually make our elections about as clean as they've ever been.

Read about 19th century elections - this is child's play.

[MIMStigator]

4. agree it's easy to think of areas they will attack Kerry

botox, rich, wife

What would they get Clark on?

[Old and In the Way]

27. failed general, lobbyist, political neophyte

Hey, look how they went after McCain and that was in their own Party.

[DrFunkenstein]

5. Kerry, Clark, and Edwards All Have Good Shots

As the head to heads against Bush prove.



When the 562 likely voters were asked for their choice from a Bush v. Kerry race, 53 percent of those picked Kerry, and 46 percent favored Bush.

When that same group was asked to pick between Edwards and Bush, the numbers were 49 percent for Edwards and 48 percent for Bush. With a Bush/Clark face-off, Bush was favored by 50 percent of those surveyed and Clark, 47 percent.

Howard Dean, the onetime front-runner in the Democratic field, had a poorer showing against Bush, 45 percent to 52 percent for the incumbent.

[Old and In the Way]

26. Rather counter-intuitive...

seeing that polling is showing Kerry as the strongest candidate to go against Bush. But I'm sure you can spin away the polls and Kerry's performance to date. I'll bet we'll hear how weak a candidate Kerry is, if he only wins 5/7.

Apparently the vast majority of mainstream Democrats just aren't as smart as the posters here on DU.

[EvilJam]

6. the 'Fix' was in, early.

many "Forces" - including the DNC and DLC - were awakened once Dean took the early lead in the polls leading up to Iowa and NH!
it was a classic gang-bang that did in the doctor!
the "Scream" just icing on the cake.
the "Establishment" wanted Kerry.
it's "his turn."
but, Kerry gets his butt handed to him in this Election!
Dubya nd the neocons will have him for lunch!
this may be the first Skull & Bones vs. Skull & Bones election, but it's quite clear who the rank & file Skull & Bones want!
and, it ain't Kerry! - evil

[SharonAnn]

7. I don't think Kerry is strong enough in campaigning to appeal

to voters. He is good but not great. After hearing Dean, Kerry doesn't sound authentic or sincere.

Also, there's the thing about having the mindset of a senator. It's an extremely important role, difficult to do well, and takes a certain mindset to work well within that role. Kerry does it very well. But, it's not the same as a governor's role which is more like the president's. It's a CEO role and a true leadership role. I just don't think Kerry has it in him.

I like Kerry, a lot, but I just don't think he's going to inspire voters and that's what's going to be necessary.

[Nicholas_J]

11. In national polls

that include both Democrat's and Republicans, Kerry os now beatin Bush by a rather large margin, so the idea that he doesnt inspire people jus doenst wash, and the idea that some people who support other candidates and dont like Kerry doesnt was, because he is doing extrmely well in polls of the public and not just the media. In several polls he is now coming out 7 point ahead of Bush in the general election. THe public likes what it sees, even if you do not.
For a Massachussetts liberal to be pulling down fifty percent in the Democratic/Independent primary polls in a place like Missouri is another point in Kerry's favor. The fact is that he has broad appeal, his appear was far broader and spenned more diverse groups than Dean's did in both Iowa and New Hampshire, that the union voters did not follow the lead of their leaders and twice as many people from the unions that endorsed Dean voted for Kerry rather than Dean.

The fact is that to a lot of people, Dean doesnt sound sincere, and to a lot of people he sounds rather like he is saying what people want to hear in order to get elected. Especially when he keeps having to explain what he meant in the past when he wanted to slow down medicare spending, or raise the social security age. or about attacking Iraq in 30 to 60 days, and how he voted for Beden Lugar because it would require the president to go back to congress, and then stating tat he was mistaken and that Biden Lugar would not have required the president to go back to Congress, and the list goes on and on. And some the public actually keeps track of what he has said, and then says later. And some are just not motivated by angry.

And some have decided that since most of the last presidents have ben governors and even the best of them have cuased untold problems because of their lack of experience with Washinton (Carter mishandling Iran , ending up with a hostage crisis, Reagan and all of the crap he screwd up, Even Clinton, who didnt handle a few things well enough to get his health care passed, as well as not handling Saddam Hussein well enough after he kicked out the U.N. inspectors, which pretty much was part of the pre-history leading to what the current Governor has done)

In many aspects, the White House is nothing like a Governors job, especially at times where there are international crises going on.

To many, Dean just does not seem level headed enough or the job.

Last of all, to many, the buck doesnt seem to stop with Dean. When his campaign doesnt go the way he wants, or if he just isnt winning, its always someone elses fault. The buck never seems to stop with Dean. So Dean is no Truman in that regard, as he indicated, the buck stopped with him. THe fact that Dean can only be losing becasue of media or DLC and DNC plots is part of that. The fact that it could just be Dean himself never occuring to Dean or his hard core supporters is what to many make Dean unpresidential. Sometimes it is just Dean who cant cut it.

Presidential politicas goes in those cycles. After a while, Governors are justno longer in fashion, and more simply, there are times that Goverors just dont cut it. Almost three decades of Governors inexpert handling of the mid-east, and inm particulat Iran and Iraq have led to this juncture.

[GalleryGod]

36. Thanks, Nick ! Might Be Too. Too Much Empirical Data for Some Folk

I love this new, National Conspiracy Theory for the downfall of Doctor Shock. And-I might add:silly: I'm not surprised in the least.



Your man in the Faculty Lounge, Lookin' for the $43 mil..

:smoke: G.G.

[ShadowCabinet]

15. I have to agree with you here.......

I've watched Sen. Kerry a number of times campaigning on C-Span, and while I like what I hear, he does come across as extremely stiff and well....patrician. Although a lot is being made over his "electiblity" vs. say Dean or Clark, I don't think he has the charisma and "likeability" to go head-to-head against the Smirk.

The media did in Gore over the "likeability" factor. We are seeing the same thing being setup here.

[Old and In the Way]

28. good post, solid analysis, you've convinced me.........

not....You won't mind if I don't take your post too seriously, right?

[nightperson]

34. This may be

the first time I've heard someone use the category of "the rank & file Skull & Bones"! Memorable phrase! "He's clearly the only candidate able to truly empathize with the concerns of ...", "Throughout his career, he has bravely stood up for ...". Gotta use it on Bush someday.

[GalleryGod]

35. P.U. Burrow oneself further into your gopher hole,Please

Awful rationale,totally lacking in any deductive reasoning whatsoever.:wtf:

Well...:argh: GRADE= "D-"


Your Man in the Faculty Lounge,:hangover: crunchin' trackin' Polls!
G.G.:smoke:

[MurikanDemocrat]

8. I liked Kerry early on, but was disappointed that he wasn't

doing well and all but wrote him off. I always thought he was the best candidate.

Then I vacillated among the others and settled on Dean for a while with some reservations. I like where he stands on many of the issues. But, here's the rub; he resonates well with the base, but I've always, always had doubts about how his renegade, untested style would translate to the rest of the voting public. In other words, I've never felt he'd be able to go the distance against Bush.

So then Kerry went to work and re-tooled his campaign, whatever it was he did it worked, and he gained support and by God he pulled out the first 2 primaries and he's smokin in the polls for tomorrow. I'm glad, because he was my first choice many months ago, and I have no doubt he can take on Bush head to head in November.

[Althion]

9. I worry about Kerry's electability too

I know it's all the rage to think of him as electable, but I don't see it. I don't see how someone who is as charisma-challenged as Kerry can take it all the way, and I'm very worried about what is lurking in his record and background if we're only hearing about the Special Interests problems NOW.

Anyway, the lack of charisma seemed to be one of Gore's problems vis a vis Bush. (Don't flame me. I didn't particularly think so, but a lot of people did.)

I've tried very hard to get with the program re Kerry, and I just can't get excited about him. In fact, I'm wondering why others seem to be so excited about him, at least judging from some of the poll numbers. Can anyone offer some clues about that?

A.

[MIMStigator]

10. The post was trying to explain why they are excited

because he's not Dean

[wabeewoman]

22. The problem with Kerry is

is that bush/rove will blur the lines so you won't know which is worse; they will paint him as a tax/spend liberal, they'll destroy his military service by painting him a traitor after he came home, they'll drag out all the votes he's made FOR taxes, I assume he is anti-gun. There is a serious amount to work with and Kerry doesn't have the charisma to deal with it. He isn't used to being plain spoken or rocking the boat, he supported the Iraqi war, he hasn't said anything in 3 years in the Senate that made any headlines. I'll hold my nose and vote for him but he won't energize people who don't vote and he won't draw the independents someone like Clark will. As you likely know, I support Dean but have been further fading on Kerry. Dean, Clark and Edwards would do better against bush when they get through smearing Kerry. Wait and see....

[Old and In the Way]

30. Do you really think that's the case?

Nah, Bush is toast. The people are fed up with the bullshit, they know he is either grossly incompetent or he's a suit and tie megalomaniac. Either way, we's done. The RNC can lie and lie and lie, it's not going to change the fact that Bush is done.

The real question for Democrats is which person to choose for the Presidency. All will be significantly better than Bush, of that I have no doubt. But which one will drive the most effective change? Edwards and Kerry have a leg up because both have Congressional experience and both can be expected to put together coalitions to get their agenda passed...at least more effective than outsiders who won't be elected with majorities in either House (maybe).

Kerry has many more years of Congressional experience over Edwards in that regard and he has will have better creds on foreign affairs and, most interesting, on war. Kerry will be able to stand up to the war-mongers because he's fought....shouldn't under-estimate the value of that in a President.

He's going to make a great President!

[GalleryGod]

37. Most of the DNCers don't. Including Myself and many.many,others

WHO have since given up on the DU as a viable place to visit or spend time. I know as of October I stopped giving $$$ to DU and thus began to give it to Kerry. Money well RE-Routed.

:hangover: G.G.

[incapsulated]

12. deleted cause I posted in the wrong thread! :)

[George_Bonanza]

13. I think Kerry supporters are less inflammatory than Dean supporters

So there's no real personal incentive to get even with the posters here.

Of course, this is all proving to be false since we've seen an extremely sharp increase of anti-Kerry threads (a lot of the dupes) since Iowa.

[kaitykaity]

16. As a Dean supporter, I definitely don't give

Kerry a pass. I don't like him, I don't trust him, and I definitely don't think he can win this November. (But maybe Dean supporters are the exception to the theory.)

[ngGale]

17. Kerry gets more passes that any candidate..

I know of. Why the establishment think he's the winner is beyond me.
This time they are wrong, Kerry is the weakest candidate.

[GalleryGod]

38. Declarative statements-like a brick through a window...

Your declarative sentences are totally groundless:wtf:
Sorry to ruin your perspective,Sir.IMHO ,of course, you are FREE to maintain yours.

[genius]

18. Dean was attacking the other candidates with false statements

He isn't well liked by people who want the candidates to be honest. Kerry is nice and he is liberal. Clark would be fine too. I do not believe anyone outside of Dean and Carol Moseley -Braun (in some of debates) has deliberately misstated the positions of any of the other candidates. Also Dean's claim that good Democrats are Republicans is ridiculous.

[John_H]

19. Bingo. At least Kerry might be able to win. Dean cannot.

[kaitykaity]

21. Kerry can't win.

Once the Mighty Republican Mean Machine gets done with Kerry, he'll be a puddle of goo on the carpet.

Dean could have. I still think he can. Kerry can't.

[Old and In the Way]

31. Spoken more from wishful thinking than logic.

Dean is struggling to stay alive in the Democratic primary, he hasn't proven anything about being able to win. And you don't really know the election battles Kerry has had in Massachusetts, either. He is tested, he comes from a state that invented hardball politics.

The MRMM is scared poopless about Kerry. He kills Bush on his own personal record and his 20+ years of foreign policy experience. Bush is so toast, but Kerry will take him apart anyway. And Kerry will have lots more coat-tails for Democrats to run for Congress on. As an insider, he'll be more effective on getting legislation done. Remember, we don't own Congress and Dean's not going to pass anything by himself. He doesn't strike me as a finesse guy, either.

I like Dean, I gave him $. He set the rhetorical bar and energized the base early. I liken him to 1st man in a 2-man relay race. He got out fast and ran hard, kept us in the race, but it's time to pass the baton and let the team win.

Really, Dean won't run better than Kerry against Bush. He's barely doing it in the primary.

[MurikanDemocrat]

20. A lot of people really do think Kerry is the best candidate

and really don't care for Dean. gasp!

And backing Kerry instead of Dean because he actually has a chance of beating Bush is no minor point. The whole idea of picking a Democratic candidate is to WIN. Jesus.

[corporatewhore]

23. I have been fair been attacking clark kerry dean have been going soft on..

JE because we mainly over here in GD2004 here about those three cannidates and he is the best lookin outta the bunch ;)

[Andromeda]

24. I think Clark has a better shot...

than Kerry does. I'm a Dean supporter but if Deans quits the race or hangs in there until all hope is lost then I will support Clark if he's still viable.

Don't think for minute that Kerry is invulnerable---he has plenty of skeletons rattling around in his closet and Bush & Co. will use every one of them against him.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. Spot On

I think that's a very accurate assessment.

DTH

[CWebster]

29. Without the media promoting him as the "electible", most presidential"

inevitable candidate, there is no choice. Without that Kerry would be a big fat zero, whining about Dean and forever harking back to Viet Nam, as if voluntering to kill in an unjust war in any way compensates for voting for an unjust war causing others to be killed. Aging testosterone.
Without the hype, he is the most boring, unattractive, elitist and awkward politician I have ever seen - even if he is the wealthiest senator.

No challenge for the media, they have been covering for and creating illusions about the chimp for years.

[Old and In the Way]

32. So every Kerry voter is a stupid, naive, easily influenced dupe of

Big Media? And only the smart people voting for Dean have it right?

Please, spare me your elitist BS.

[GalleryGod]

39. Can Kerry Underground be Far Off???

This is getting TIRESOME.

Hel-lo? HQ's Psssssssssst...:nuke: