Jane Fonda has "too much baggage" to protest Iraqi war.

[killerbush]

Saying that she has too much baggage, and the fact that others like Cindy Sheehan beat her to the punch, Jane Fonda will not openly protest the Iraqi war. Fonda, known for her outspoken protests aginst the Vietnam war, says that she would be a lightning rod for conservatives who would waste no time in bringing up comparisons between this war, and that war. To this day, some Vietnam vets, and conservatives, have never forgiven Fonda for what she did way back in 1972, and she doesn't want to open old wounds by adding her name to the growing number of protesters against this war



http://www.huffingtonpost.com

[Bluzmann57]

1. She's correct

She made a mistake, has since apologized for it, but there are indeed many many people, not only conservatives, who have never forgiven her, and never will. It is probably wiser for her to stay on the sidelines, at least publicly.

[spag68]

4. Jane Fonda

was right about nam, unless you criticize her actions there, which is legit. As far as I am concerned she didn't make a mistake.

[saltpoint]

8. Jane Fonda was right on Vietnam. She was right early. And she was

vilified by a pack of sexit feral dogs for speaking her mind.

Her words regarding Cindy Sheehan spoke in strong, clear, and unambiguous praise of Cindy Sheehan.

Jane Fonda is the real deal. She always has been.

[guidod]

56. I agree! But repukes would

have a field day.

[manic expression]

40. Very true

It is a sad state of affairs when one is derided for speaking the truth no one wants to admit.

[TriMetFan]

6. I know what you mean. My dad is a Major Liberal

and he has never forgiven her for this. I remember one time as a teen watching a movie of hers and he just shut the t.v. and said that her name or anything about her was not allowed in his home. :shrug:

[saltpoint]

11. One of my very close relatives felt that Jane Fonda was monstrous in

defying LBJ and calling the Pentagon a pack of liars.

Some years later, when LBJ had been driven out by his own disastrous management of the war, and the Pentagon was indeed found to be a pack of lying animals on troop casualty figures ina court of law, this relative did not have the cajones to apologize to those who supported Fonda's right to speak, not to mention the fact that she was right in the first place.

[TriMetFan]

34. My dad has said that she hurt the movement. I'm glad she is

staying out of this one.

[mike_c]

21. what mistake? She was 100 percent correct....

:patriot:

[ShortnFiery]

2. YES! Thank ya, Jane, Good Command Decision! :-)

[ananda]

3. oh pulleezzee

Demonizing the antiwar activist..

It worked.

You wuzzy coward Jane! We need all the allies we can get!

[MercutioATC]

9. It's not that she protested the war...

...it's that she did it by posing for pictures on an enemy antiaircraft gun surrounded by the smiling NVA gun crew (and applauding them).

[saltpoint]

17. ..and for which she has sincerely and repeatedly apologized.

[MercutioATC]

25. Yes, but it was a major issue at the time (and it's still remembered)

There'd be more controversy over her than the war she'd be protesting.

I'm not demonizing her, just agreeing with her decision to keep a low profile. Right or wrong, she's "damaged goods" as far as war activism goes.

[saltpoint]

28. We agree. She has made the best strategic decision. My hunch is that

it was painful for her not to be out there protesting.

She's not exactly known for her reserved, demure personality.

Which is why I'm a fan.

You always make sense on these boards, Mercutio. You name implies fluctuation, but in any case, your clarity and brains remain constant. Always a pleasure to encounter you here.

[MercutioATC]

31. Likewise :)

It's unfortunate that there's still too much resentment to allow her to be effective. As you said, she gets passionate about issues...that can be powerful.

[saltpoint]

32. Yes. I hope she will work behind the scenes in that sort of role, much

the way Elizabeth Taylor works with AIDS patients in California, to make meaningful reform possible.

[saltpoint]

16. AMENDED POST. (BELOW) Jane Fonda did not "demonize" Cindy Sheehan.

What evidence do you have of that?

Why are you assigning to her words she did not say?

Why are you demonizing her?

Give me the source of the quotation in which Jane Fonda "demonizes" Cindy Sheehan. If you can produce it, I will write a letter to your hometown paper, sign it, and it will be a letter of apology to you.

If not, you have to do the same for Jane Fonda.

Deal?

_____________ON EDIT: Two DUers have called my response into question here, and ananda, if I've misread you, it's my fault. But as I review your post, it sounds negative. I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. Let me know, either in this thread of by PM. If I took what you typed all wrong, I will say as much.

[charlyvi]

18. I don't think Ananda means Fonda demonized Sheehan.

I think she meant by "demonize the antiwar protestor" that Fonda herself was demonized and it worked--she's keeping quiet.

[killerbush]

27. ananda isn't saying that Fonda criticized Sheehan

I think she's say the right would demonize Fonda.

[LisaM]

5. So "they" win? She was right to protest Vietnam

It's the fools who supported that war and who pushed us into this one who have the baggage, if you ask me. But apparently they get to bring all the luggage they want onto the sinking ship while Jane is limited to one carry on bag.

This is topsy-turvy logic.

[MercutioATC]

7. She was right to protest the Vietnam War, just not in the way she did...

I'm glad she made this decision.

[ShortnFiery]

10. Nope, we all WIN because Jane Fonda shows us her humble

desire to put "our cause" ahead of her needs. She is being gracious and knows that the right wing does NOT ever forgive. (Too bad McCain's gonna have to learn this the hard way).

Bottom Line: The RW would use her as a distraction. It is very kind of Ms. Fonda to step aside to cheer on Cindy Sheehan. :applause:

[saltpoint]

12. Very insightful and in my opinion, exactly true.

[ShortnFiery]

36. Thank-you, very kind of you both :-) eom

[charlyvi]

15. Exactly, ShortnFiery. n/t

[Mad_Dem_X]

61. Well said!

I completely agree, she is doing the right thing.

[charlyvi]

13. True.

But it's not just the fact that she protested the war--many, many people did that. What the soldiers can't forgive her for, rightly or wrongly, was her visit to North Vietnam during the war, especially the scene with the Viet Cong and the tank. It was a really, really stupid thing to do.

[arcane1]

19. but not nearly as stupid as invading Vietnam in the first place

[saltpoint]

23. A good point. I heard Fonda say this to an audience at the Univ. of

Dayton at the beginning-of-the-end era of Nixon's presidency.

Someone called in a bomb threat and the cops ordered everyone out.

Jane Fonda, speaking with her then-husband Tom Hayden, grabbed the mike from the cop and asked the audience to remain, that this happens all the time when she appears, that it was a way to silence her voice.

A great majority of us remained and heard a powerful anti-Vietnam and anti-bombing address.

Fonda's got the guts to do anything she wants.

[lwcon]

24. Indeed

Somehow, Jane's faux pas looms larger in people's minds than the tens of thousands of needless deaths.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[charlyvi]

30. Yes.

But think how you would have felt, as a soldier who probably didn't want to be there in the first place, watching a very famous citizen of your country being filmed smiling and waving among the Viet Cong during the war you were fighting, rightly or wrongly. As my brother says, who was in Viet Nam when it happened, Fonda went WAY beyond the line. And he still said it as he protested the war himself after coming home. Just think a moment of how it made them feel; I think her decision is a correct one. Some of the men and women who served will never forgive her.

[arcane1]

37. Fonda saw the Viet Cong as human beings

that's exactly where the line should be

[Warpy]

14. She's right, she'd be a lightning rod and would draw all the

crazy fuckers who were never able to let go of the "Hanoi Jane" thing out of the woodwork and they'd try to discredit the whole antiwar movement with what she did when she was young and stupid and used.

I'm grateful to her for realizing this. You can bet she'll be behind the scenes and contributing generously. She always does.

[AtomicKitten]

20. One can never have too much baggage to protest war. n/t

[Wilber_Stool]

22. This is one vet that hasn't.

I've only seen two of her movies, Spirits of the Dead and Barbarella.
Protest is fine but you don't go over and sit on an anti-aircraft gun and have your picture taken.

[saltpoint]

26. Wilber_Stool, when the woman publicly apologized, she did a hell of a

lot more and showed a lot more balls and brains than Bob McNamara did for YEARS leading up to that incident.

Jane Fonda was not, to the best of my knowledge, in Johnson's war Cabinet.

Why not blame the men who were, instead of beating up on Fonda?

[faithnotgreed]

41. in fact she has said she didnt even realize thats what she was doing

until right after the photos were taken and then she realized and thought oh my god
thats what she has said and i believe her
besides she was humanizing the "enemy" and certainly appeared to be siding with them
but who really is the "enemy"
i know in war that is how it is set up - always an enemy that must be blown away

its just so tragic
the entire military thing (no disprespect meant)
its usually governments unwillingness to negotiate truth or peace for which they send citizens out to do their fighting
against other countries citizens and just following orders

in the vietnam war the government the pentagon created such a tragic mess that i could never blame jane fonda or anyone else back home protesting who tried to stop the bloody massive lying tragedy that it was

of course i am not in the military so i dont have the same perspective as those who did and those who fought because their country ordered them to
and the people who did fight deserve respect because they did what they felt (and were made to believe) was right
but that doesnt mean the pentagon and administration didnt lie the entire way - to all of us

its just that jane fonda expressed her outrage at that lying in a very public way
and in a way that felt brutal to those just following orders to protect the country and all the rights that went with it

i strongly support her
i feel she is speaking truth to power and i may be wrong but i believe that if cindy could visit with iraqis who are fighting she absolutely would
because they are (also) a nation being attacked and killed and their lives completely obliterated based on lies in order to get what a few at the top want: power
and again this govt is willing to sacrifice its citizens so i applaud anyone willing to take such a risk to express what is wrong with war and those who sacrifice lives based only on their greed and ambition at all costs

costs which they never have to pay

[saltpoint]

45. Very nicely stated. Bravo and bravo again.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Wilber_Stool]

50. Didn't know what she was doing?

I don't think you remember how powerful an image it was at the time. Imagine a picture of George Cloony on the cover of Time with and RPG or an IED. How would you feel about that. A simple picture at a school or a market place or any number of places could humanize an enemy if that was what she wanted. Not sitting on an AA gun.

[faithnotgreed]

53. at the time wilbur

is what i was referencing
and yes i know it absolutely was devastating to many people

she was trying to commune with these people - as people
no she wasnt coming from a military perspective as we all know

i believe this is what she has stated publicly:
they were hanging out and that they led her to take a photo together so she did
she said they had just sung a song and were talking while they led her towards the specific photo
she was distracted and in the midst of an emotional situation
it was not intentional on her part to have that specific photo

and immediately after the photo was taken she realized what had happened
again this is what she said
and i very much believe her

it was not her intent at all to hurt anyone
just to bring her outrage and her fame to perhaps do something constructive
we know the rest but again i dont at all believe it was her intent to create that scenario

hope that explains it a little better

[saltpoint]

68. Your grudge against this woman is decades old and is not serving you

very well.

I'd advise you to get over it and proceed with your citizenship without trying to degrade another citizen, especially one whose transgression is decades old.

Nietzsche urged us to "distrust anyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful."

[Wilber_Stool]

48. I'm sorry I forgot to take out the garbage.

I'm sorry I forgot to call you back.
I'm sorry I gave aid and comfort to the enemy.
There comes a time when "I'm sorry" just isn't good enough. It doesn't make things all better.
And what makes you think I don't blame Bob McNamara? I didn't by his book either.

[saltpoint]

49. My question stands, Wilber_Stool. I question veterans who blame

Jane Fonda -- some of them going as far as spitting on her in public -- and who have never once mentioned the name of Dean Rusk. Or Robert NcNamara. And so forth down the list of the Johnson war Cabinet.

They were the instigators, the supporters, the planners, the implementers, and eventually the liars who could not admit they were wrong, terribly wrong. They betrayed our soldiers.

Your anger is completely understandable. I shared it then and now. But turning it in a white-hot laser on Jane Fonda is wildly misdirected criticism.

I don't respect a gang rape of a movie star when the power elite were the ones who got us there and who lied to keep us there. Jane Fonda didn't kill 58,000-some U.S. soldiers. Our government did.

[Wilber_Stool]

51. I blame all of them.

And I blame myself too. Anyone who takes any any action for any reason has to be prepared to take the consequences, good or bad. There comes a time when simple protest steps over the line. Hers did.
Mine was to not see any of her movies. Doesn't seem to too hot a laser to me.

[saltpoint]

52. Her apology ought to be good enough, in my opinion. Again:

Jane Fonda did not have even one finger on the levers of power.

For the incidents you reference, she sincerely and repeatedly apologized.

No one's blaming you for the war. Least of all me. I blame the Johnson administration first and foremost.

But not a film star.

[arcane1]

38. why not?

She wasn't responsible for sending an American invasion force into that country. Those Vietnamese didn't deserve to die

[PaDem]

67. King Crimson?

Looks like it.

[Karenca]

29. I'm going to hear her speak tonight

at the bookstore.
She's going to discuss VietNam and her activism today.

[saltpoint]

33. You lucky dog, you. Excellent use of a Monday evening.

[Karenca]

39. I agree.....Senator Kennedy will be speaking there Friday .

I am going to definitely hear him too.

I'm even missing my class for this one! (Kennedy)

[saltpoint]

46. You know how things are done, Karenca. Tremendous public schedule!

[faithnotgreed]

42. i applaud her humanity. do let us know how it goes

if you can

[Karenca]

43. i will .... eom

[Karenca]

64. She was wonderful!

So funny and bright. Very kind to everyone ---she tried to answer so many questions, and she made sure everyone could hear the audienc's questions. She spoke very highly of Cindy Sheehan, and was very upset about the Neocons ruining the country.
Many people at the event said they want to leave the US. She asked them to please stay and fight...she said we are needed here...."please stay and help us save America",.
BTW, she's gorgeous.

[killerbush]

35. I think she's smart

Staying out of this one. and here say she would be a lightning rod for the looneys, is right on too.

[Minnesota Libra]

44. Could it be that Hanoi Jane finally learned to keep her mouth shut? I....

....seriously doubt it, but I guess we can hope.

[saltpoint]

47. I don't believe Jane Fonda lives in the town you reference.

And there is also the matter of the First Amendment to the Constitution, which permits U.S. citizens to speak freely on the issues of the day.

Jane Fonda was fulfilling her responsibilities and enjoying the privileges of U.S. citizen under that document.

As you can read in this thread, many people honor her for her contribution.

[Minnesota Libra]

60. Well, all I can say is........................

You wrote: "As you can read in this thread, many people honor her for her contribution."

My response: I never have and never will walk lock step with any party, set of belief system, or anything else. So I still think Hanoi Jane, or Jane F...up (whichever a person prefers) should have been tried for treason has soon as she stepped back in this country during the Viet Nam War. Today? She's trying to live that down and it's apparently working on the nonthinking set.

[saltpoint]

62. Thank you for your thoughts.

[MadMaddie]

54. I think she is making the right move....the way that swiftboating

is carried out these days.....Jane would be the focus of the upcoming elections....remember the Neocons want to distort and spin....and she realizes it....

She did something in her youth that was very stupid...like many of us have....and granted it was more public than what any of us have ever done...she realized that she made a mistake and.....she apologized...she realized the negative impact of the film footage and the photos....

I had an uncle that was killed in Vietnam...I never had a chance to meet him....his name wasn't on the wall because he got killed in a bar fight...he should have never been there....

Lets face it...the Neocons during Vietnam and now Iraq have been allowed to manipulate the truth of both wars....using the Jane Fonda's and the Cindy Sheehans as the reason the wars were lost.....not because of the Neocons absolute incompetence.....and the reasons for wars....

[FredScuttle]

55. Jane Fonda still gets the heat for a photo taken 34 years ago

When is this asshole going to apologize?

[killerbush]

63. Rummy the Dummy

Will never apologize. He's too arrogant a fool to.

[blogslut]

57. Good for her

She's right. She would be a huge distraction from the message.

In case you folks don't know this, I work for the Internet porn industry. This is why although I live in Texas, you will never see me protesting in Crawford. Can you imagine how that would play in winger-world?

[Neil Lisst]

58. she's right. good call.

[tjdee]

59. Holy fuck, why don't people get OVER that already?

I remember that guy spitting at her or whatever at her book signing, some THIRTY YEARS after the end of Vietnam. I mean, she's one film actress. You don't want to see her movies, don't see her movies. She was born rich, she'll die rich, she doesn't care. But for this continued animosity toward her, as if it happened last week...I've seen people really frothing at the mouth over this... come ON already.

And she's apologized over and over! I think some people just like to be angry.

[Clarkie1]

66. You are asking the wrong question.

The question is: how do we convince people of the Vietnam generation who did not protest the war that the Iraq war was unecessary?

Jane Fonda won't convince them, and it won't help to ask why not.

[Clarkie1]

65. The good woman is right. There is a time and place for everything. n/t