Kennedy/Chappaquiddick, how legitimate is the accusation against him?

[madmunchie]

It seems as though whenever you say "Ted Kennedy" you get a knee jerk reaction "Chappaquiddick" "Ted got away with murder". Did he? Should he have been in jail? Or is there really just no real no way of knowing? What is your honest gut feeling about this?

I know that this is so long ago, but I was fairly young and wasn't really following the story as it unfolded. I greatly admire Ted Kennedy and feel as though he is a great man and a man of much sorrow. Whatever happened, he will be judged by his maker when the time comes, not by me. I am just curious about what really unfolded and whether Ted got away with murder or if like so many other things, the Chappaquiddick incident was greatly spun and twisted.

[stepnw1f]

1. Buh Bye

[rooney]

9. this event happened

and I remember it well and I gave it a lot of thought at the time. I definitely believe he made the mistake he was accused of making. We all make mistakes and if we are lucky we just do not get caught. I am not like the repugs who like to keep building more prisons so we can fill them. So many people are in prisons today because of mistakes made in earlier days and if they had not been so unlucky to get caught might would have matured and made a good citizen. I do believe drugs and alcohol cause most of these problems. Ted Kennedy was unlucky to get caught in that position that night, but very lucky to manage to get out of it without going to jail. I believe, probably today he would have gone to jail.

[madmunchie]

19. Welcome to DU! And thanks for your honest response.

[formernaderite]

31. Well stated...he's probably had to live with his guilt for many years

I do believe his wealth and privilege saved his ass. That said, he's paid penance by doing great things in the senate. I know it doesn't bring back the poor woman Mary who died, but that's life...all are not treated the same.

[Yupster]

33. Pretty much agree

It was a tragic accident.

The behavior that was hard to excuse was not reporting the fatal accident to the police until the next day after he had already had his lawyer with him.

I think he's called his behavior inexcusable himself, and it was.

The fact that a Kennedy got special treatment in Massachusetts can hardly be a surprise.

It's cost him his chance to be president, and that's probably a suitable punishment.

[RedTail Wolf]

41. Wow that was a long time ago

but I think he skated probably because he was a Kennedy. Probably anyone else would have gone to jail for that
Just sharing............

[stepnw1f]

48. The Ditto-headed Diatribe...

It happened and Freepers like to remind people that it did happen. How about Laura or the fact that her husband is responsible for killing over one hundred thousand people? Or how about Cheney and his quail hunting incident?

[SharonAnn]

66. Or about Laura killing someone in a car accident? It happened.

[Yupster]

67. I don't understand the defending Senator Kennedy's

behavior by saying, "oh yeah, well I know a 17 year old who did something almost as bad."

Is that supposed to defend Kennedy?

[Mr_Spock]

86. The incident is ancient

Why not bring up other incidents that were worse and not punished?

Can we never move on from our mistakes?

One mistake and your life is shit?

[Yupster]

92. I agree it's ancient, and

it shouldn't be important today, but I don't see how comparing Laura Bush's accident makes Kennedy look anything but even worse.

One was a 17 year old high school kid who stayed on the scene of the accident until the police sent her to the hospital.

The other was a siting US senator who left the scene and didn't call the police until he slept on it and huddled with his advisors and lawyers first.

Why would you calll Laura's worse than Ted's? Ted's looks far worse to me.

First, you expect more grown-up judgement from a senator than a high school id, and second, everyone knows you notify the authorities of a fatal accident as soon as you can.

[Mr_Spock]

95. THE sitting vice-president did the same thing

Cheney is lucky as hell the fellow didn't die, because he did exactly the same thing as Kennedy, except that he had accomplices there with him to make sure he didn't talk to anyone & was perfectly sober before speaking.

What Cheney did was 10x worse if you ask me.

Cheney's was recent, Kennedy's was 30 years ago. I've got my perspective straight on this one for sure...

[Yupster]

96. I agree

Cheney's shooting and timeline and activities are way more important than Kennedy's since it happened now with a sitting vice-president.

Luckily the guy didn't die though.

I don't get the Laura Bush comparison at all though. To me it only accentuates how badly Kennedy behaved so long ago. Well Ted may have behaved horribly, but a 17 year old I knew behaved almost nearly as badly. What the heck kind of a defense is that?

[OzarkDem]

97. Get your facts straight

Most of what you just said about the incident is incorrect. Is it because you haven't bothered to check the facts or are they not relevant to you?

I continue to be shocked at the number of Dems on this site who know nothing about this incident and continue to repeat right wing talking points. Doesn't it bother you that you've so easily bought into the lies of the GOP?

[Igel]

80. And for some people it's

a big deal that they don't consider past history.

On the other hand, she's not run for office; it would come up, repubs would cry foul and dems would put up tv ads about it.

[H2O Man]

71. Clever, aren't they? n/t

[Zorra]

94. Yeah, sly devils, eh? They learned to be shrewd from this political

mastermind -

[Catherine Vincent]

2. Too long ago for me. Don't know the details.

And apparently the citizens in his state keep voting for him so apparently he's forgiven for whatever he did.

[stillcool]

3. is there a time warp....somebody handing out leuds?...

[madmunchie]

4. No leuds, just wondering if somebody(s) can fill me in on this

[Breeze54]

16. I get the feeling you're doing an open book test or term paper!!

Ever heard the terms:
search engine?
encyclopedia?
baiting?
non-issue?
:shrug:

Just wondering....

[madmunchie]

21. Kenney is on Larry King, and he is just such a well spoken man and

so admirable. I think it tragic that his issue comes up like it does. It just did a couple of weeks ago. I am asking instead of "search engines...." because here I can get quicker answers AND I enjoy this board for the information that I get on it.

[Punkingal]

5. He didn't murder her.

I adore him, he is always fighting for my issues, but he did screw up big-time with Chappaquiddick. I think they were going to the beach to mess around, were drinking or drunk, he ran off the bridge, and panicked. Was is negligent homicide or manslaughter? Probably. I still love him, and he has fought my battles for years. He is the absolute best Senator we have, IMO.

But Laura Bush ran a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in Texas and killed someone, and nothing was done to her. Was that negligent homicide, or manslaughter? Probably. But you sure don't hear people running their mouths about that.

[madmunchie]

13. I know, somebody asked me "Would you rather be in the car with

Kennedy or hunting with Cheney?" I said driving in the car with Kennedy. I mentioned Laura Bush and right away they made Kennedy's situation sound like it was a cold blooded murder, which I rebuked and asked why a car accident over 30 years ago counted so much, but the death toll in Iraq doesn't mean anything? They basically said that Laura Bush probably had an "accident", Kennedy "let the girl drown" and never contacted the police until the next day (murder).

[regnaD kciN]

25. According to the wingnuts, he did...

:eyes:

I once had a woman manager at a store where I worked while going to school at tell me that it was a "fact" that Mary Jo Kopechne was pregnant by Teddy at the time, and that he deliberately drove off the bridge to drown her so the scandal wouldn't ruin his political career.

I asked her whether, even if Kennedy was the cold-blooded killer she was convinced he was, he would have chosen a method of murder that would have required him to put his own life at risk in the same car (and that would have tied him so clearly to the incident, so that his reputation would be ruined even if he "succeeded" in his alleged plot)? :crazy:

She didn't have an answer. However, I got fired shortly thereafter. :-(

[REP]

38. Doesn't Make It Right

Just because people don't "run their mouths" about Laura Bush killing her former boyfriend in a hit-and-run accident doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned. What she did was a crime, just as what Kennedy did was. If either had been from poor families, both would have received far harsher punishments than they did. Kennedy at least has the grace to express remorse and his works since have benefited many; Laura does nothing worthwhile for anyone.

[seabeyond]

58. back then i dont think either would have been charged, even poor

we werent so hell bent on a illusional perfection of non mistake.... or you life will be in jail.

accidents, mistakes poor judgement happens. we understood it back then

today..... no accidents, no mistakes. jail

[Yupster]

68. Hit and Run?

Why would you call it a hit and run?

They all stayed at the scene of the accident until the police came.

[alphafemale]

39. pugs can't let go of this because the Kennedy's used wealth/power for good

What Ted did was negligent, and tragic.

But it wasn't out of line with how other negligent accidents or even DUI's were treated at the time.

And pukes also want to dismiss Laura's "incident."

You only get youthful indiscretions if you have an "R" after your name, I guess.

[rusty_parts2001]

6. He went off a small bridge on the island with a young campaign worker

and didn't report it until the next day. He said he dove in the water in an attempt to save her that night, but after trying he was exhausted, went back to his motel, in Edgartown, and then he and a buddy went back to the scene and did more diving the following morning. After all that, he finally reported the incident to the local chief of police, getting favorable treatment all during the process. Eventually, much reduced reckless driving charges were brought against him, which he pleaded guilty to. He later made a financial settlement with the girl's family. The Oldsmobile he was driving was purchased back from the insurance company and destroyed by Kennedy's lawyers so it wouldn't be put in a "Kennedy Death Car" show.

[Breeze54]

20. nope...you have the facts mixed up...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy

[Erika]

22. Agree. This is an accurate account of the accident

I have a lot of respect for Ted Kennedy. Other than Wellstone, his ideas have truly represented liberals.

Republicans seem to have some sick need to focus their complete hatred of anything liberal on certain people.

Mention Ted Kennedy or either of the Clinton's and they become rabid.

The most disgusted I've ever been with Republicans when their hero, Rushbo, called a then 13 year old Chelsea Clinton "dog faced".

[hollowdweller]

45. Jane Fonda is another of their favorite targets.

Hard to believe that you can NEVER get away from something that happened when you were a kid. I think the right wing bringing these sort of things up to shift the debate away from whatever issue they are on the wrong side of is just plain low class.

[NMDemDist2]

7. just the fact the freepers bring it up a brazillion years later

should tell you all you need to know

1) they got nothing

2) greatly spun and twisted. bad judgement, possibly some drinking involved, tragic circumstances

teddy isn't white as the driven snow on this one, but he's no murderer either. it's ancient history

[PublicWrath]

10. Precisely so.. n/t

[MissWaverly]

11. Yes, what we should focus on is:

the record of this administration over the last 6 years

[NewJeffCT]

61. They love to label us with 1 word or phrase.

Ted Kennedy - immediate Freeper response, "Chappaquiddick"

Bill Clinton - immediate Freeer response, "Monica"

Robert Byrd - IFR - "KKK"

Al Gore - "liar"

John Kerry - "flip flopper"

Hilary Clinton - "Hitlery"

It may be simplistic, but it often works.

[MissWaverly]

8. it amazes me that we never get down to the facts

there are innuendos and whispers and that is enough to convict someone, I think that this story
is on the same level as Cheney's quail episode. Yes it was a terrible thing to happen, yes, I
think alcohol was involved, and yes I think it was covered up. No, I don't believe it was murder. Ted Kennedy was never tried, it was a horrible accident.

[OzarkDem]

26. There was a hearing

similar to a grand jury hearing, IIRC. The jury decided it was an accident and there was no criminal act involved. All the testimony was made public.

It was a tragic accident, nothing more. The verdict would have been the same for any other person in that situation.

He shouldn't have been drinking and driving, but that's the extent of his culpability. People tend to overlook the fact that he was also injured in the accident and was suffering from shock and a concussion. He wasn't thinking clearly in the hours after the accident. He dove in multiple times and tried to save Kopechne immediately after the accident, dangerous because the tides were coming in and there was a strong current. He then walked/ran back to the cottage he for help (over a mile away). The others also tried to help, no luck. They then went to the ferry landing to take the ferry to Edgartown. Instead of waiting for the ferry, Kennedy jumped in and swam (another sign that he was still in shock and not thinking clearly). His friends should have watched him more closely.

If this had happened to anyone else, it would have been dismissed as a tragic accident.

[MissWaverly]

63. Thank you for your insightful summary

When I said Kennedy was never tried, I was responding to those who would convict him of murder
when charges were never brought. He was never charged with an criminal wrongdoing, it was a tragic accident.

[juajen]

32. Well, I remember Chappaquiddick very well

I was not a democrat at the time, so I can give you the other side's point of view. The Kennedy's were very powerful in Mass and it was widely believed that he got away with murder and that the Mass officials looked the other way. He paid off the family and an autopsy was not allowed. The belief was that she was pregnant with a Kennedy baby and that she was left to die on purpose.

We read every happening as this was going down. I voted for JFK (he was my first democratic vote), but I was not a dyed in the wool dem, so I was skeptical and I am sad to say, nothing ever came out that changed that skepticism.

There should have been some outside investigation, and an autopsy should have been done on MaryJo's body. Everything was kept very hush-hush and it was very telling, IMHO.

That said, I do believe in redemption, and I believe Teddy has more than made up for his indiscretion and bad judgment. I do not believe he intentionally murdered her, and I've never been sure if anyone else was in the car. He certainly should have called in the authorities immediately. Everyone believed at the time that he was drunk and did try to rescue her, but when he could not, he succumbed to temptation and took the easy way out. Unfortunately, his bad judgment did not bode well for a bid for the presidency.

I love him and think he is great American and a wonderful statesman, but the scandal was not overblown, IMO.

[Hekate]

43. Good answer

[Tari]

47. There was no autopsy because her parent's filed a petition barring one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jo_Kopechne

Something interesting about Kennedy from wiki that I didn't know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy

In 1964, Kennedy was in a plane crash in which the pilot and one of Kennedy's aides were killed. He was pulled from the wreckage by fellow senator Birch E. Bayh II (D-Ind.) and spent weeks in a hospital recovering from a severe back injury, a punctured lung, broken ribs, and internal bleeding.

[OzarkDem]

51. There was an investigation

and a coroner's inquest (similar to a grand jury).

There was no crime, it was an accident, nothing more.

[Punkingal]

84. Her parents wouldn't allow an autopsy....

They fought it. And the medical examiner said there was evidence that she drowned, so he saw no reason to do one at the time. I never believed she was pregnant...I think she and Teddy just happened to get passionate that night. She didn't work for him, she was a Robert Kennedy campaign worker, so who knows if he even knew her that well? I wish an autopsy HAD been done...it would put the pregnancy rumor to rest in all liklihood.

[juajen]

88. This was why everyone was skeptical about Chappaquiddick

The common belief was that the Kennedy's paid off the Kopechne's to prevent an autopsy. Additionally, Kennedy influence was suspected in the lack of an investigation.

All of this was speculation. I certainly said this was the case, and since, I, like Hillary Clinton, was a Goldwater girl, the bias was there at that point in my life. I did like the Kennedy family and was sympathetic, but skeptical. As I said, I still believe that the true story was never told.

I was either cursed or blessed to be present at a hell of a lot of history, and feel it is always interesting to get the perspective of someone who lived it instead of just reading about it off the pages of written history.

edited: I got my dates mixed up; Bobby was also dead when this happened. Too damn much happening to their family during those years. Obviously, some very powerful people were messing with the dynastic Kennedys.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. There's a new concept .... s'called 'research' Here's a hint .....

http://www.google.com/

type 'kennedy chappaquiddick i don't know shit" in the blank box that comes up on your screen.

[madmunchie]

17. Is this a "discussion forum"? If so, I am asking people who I respect

this question. If you don't like my question, then don't respond. Simple - -

[Old and In the Way]

14. Ted Kennedy = the sins of the entire Republican Party.

Did he get off lightly? Maybe, but I wasn't there. And neither were all the arseholes who seem so sure they know all the facts of that night. He faced a judge for his actions....he was held accountable.

It kind of pisses me off. Ted was under a lot of strain. We forget he had lost 2 brothers and his own near-death experience in a very short time span prior to that incident. Perhaps he reckless in his personal life at this time, but c'mon, the guy has more that paid his debt to this society.

I often wonder what the RW apologists would use if they didn't have Monica and Chappaquiddick to throw up in defending the complete corruption of the Republican Party?

[madmunchie]

18. True, what would they have? Thousands killed in a bogus war? NO

The biggest deficit in history? NO, Lack of proper action in Katrina? NO Lying to the American People so that they could go to the bogus war? NO Leaking CIA Agents? NO ...

[sendero]

15. They give no benefit of the doubt...

... to Kennedy, but are happy to defend Laura Bush killing her (ex?) boyfriend or Dickhead Cheney shooting a friend. Accidents? Yes, all probably were. But Democrats are not allowed to have accidents, only sleazebag Republicans.

Yes, Kennedy got preferential treatment. So did Laura, and so did Cheney.

[rooney]

23. If it is OK for the MSM

to ask Kennedy about Chappaquidick (and yes, he responds) and to ask Clinton about Monica (he talks about it, also on TV) why can't questions about the OFFICIAL report on 911, with all of it's inconsistencies, be asked of people that were involved. We deserve to know the truth.

[sendero]

24. You got that right..

.... the biggest "accident" of all time.

[OzarkDem]

27. I don't think he got preferential treatment

Though the local law enforcement and prosecutor were under plenty of public scrutiny and no doubt some pressure from Kennedy's attorneys, the resulting hearing and verdict would have been the same if it had happened to anyone else. It was a tragic accident, but there was no crime committed.

[joeprogressive]

34. I honestly believe Cheney and Kennedy incidents were accidents

However, I also believe they were both under the influence and that is what prompted the delay in reporting in both incidents. Can you imagine what would have happened if Cheney's friend would have dropped dead on the spot and they were forced to report it immediately. Would they have tested Cheney's alcohol level as is required by law in hunting accidents?

[sendero]

46. I agree 100%...

... and that is my point. Joe Blow would be in trouble for having a serious accident affecting others and delaying the reporting of it.

[AX10]

28. It was a tragic accident.

[LittleClarkie]

29. It might be that Teddy was guilty of what Cheney was guilty of

being drunk. Would explain the gap in time.

But it's bogus that Republicans bring it up time and time again. It's about as relevant as whether or not Laura killed a classmate by accident in her car.

Which is why I bring that up whenever a Freeper around me brings up Chappaquiddick.

[MethuenProgressive]

30. "My gun has killed less people than Laura Bush's car."

And that's the difference between us and them - you'll never see us printing up bumper stickers making political points from a long ago tragic accident.

[joeprogressive]

35. I think the Cheney incident more closely resembles Chappaquiddick

The only difference is Mary died Harry lived.

[gr8dane_daddy]

36. Everytime a repube brings up Kennedy and Chappaquiddick..

I bring up Scarborough and his dead secretary

[alphafemale]

37. From pics of that bridge and it didn't look safe anyway.

I wouldn't attempt it completely sober.


http://www.strangepersons.com.nyud.net:8090/images/content/110337.jpg


I don't think a bridge without real guardrails would exist today.

[OzarkDem]

57. At night, with no lights around, isolated area

Your car flips over and sinks underwater (no one wore seat belts back then). High tide, with current. I'm surprised he was able to attempt rescue.

[VOX]

40. How stable would my behavior have been if my two brothers were murdered?

Murdered in public places -- not in some back alley or 2:00 a.m. brawl. Murdered while in positions of leadership, conducting state business, trying to do the right thing. And probably murdered by entities quite different and far more complex than the reported "deranged individuals."

Yes, Ted probably got off too lightly. But that tragic event occurred in July 1969 -- nearly **37** years ago. Since then, Ted Kennedy has consistently proved himself to be one of the most steadfast public servants around. He never backed away from defining himself as a liberal. He still carries a lot of clout. Republicans still fear him.

So, to those right wingers who are so fond of making cracks about "The Swimmer," or who enjoy the sick jokes about Ted Kennedy's car, I offer a phrase that is very familiar to them -- GET OVER IT!!!! :mad:

[Hekate]

42. One thing for sure is true: Ted K has spent a life of service...

...to the people. As a US Senator, now an old man, he's a rock. We are lucky to have him.

Chappaquidick was a tragic accident, in which a young woman campaign worker drowned when the car Ted Kennedy was driving went into a river. They were driving alone at the conclusion of a party for campaign workers. Instead of leaving her in the river to go for help, he dove into the water over and over again. There were no such things as cell phones in those days.

Two things make this incident a permanent source of fodder for the wingnuts: the Kennedy connection and the fact that they were alone.

The right wing hates the Kennedys with venom: Jack, Bobby, and Teddy. Why? You'll have to ask them. And the tabloids love the merest hint of scandal or sexual impropriety. Put the two together and this won't rest until long after Ted is in the ground next to his brothers.

No matter what kind of crime Republicans do, someone will always toss in this dirt about Ted Kennedy. Helps to change the subject. Helps to give an impression that everyone does it, whatever that means.

If you sincerely want to do research, any library or bookstore will have shelves upon shelves of biographical material relating to the Kennedy clan. Go. Knock yourself out. Report your findings back to us.

Hekate

[Minnesota Libra]

44. It happened pretty much as we hear but my response to neocons.............

...who bring up Chappaquiddick whenever Kennedy is mentioned is, "What about Bush? There were no WMD and Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 but almost 3,000 young people have been killed. Kennedy killed one. So what, Saddam was a bad guy? Who appointed the US as the world's policeman? Isn't that the job of the UN?" It either shuts them up or they try the "that's different" argument.

edited to add: :hi: Welcome to DU:hug:

[ShortnFiery]

49. Yes let's visit THIS issue, it's not like the crazy chimp is considering

Armageddon? :P Wu's on FIRST and the BushBotBorg is emplacing the tactical nukes "at the ready."

But instead, let's revisit some MA Senator's past. :puke:

[newportdadde]

50. I remember Unsolved Mysteries did a show on it. It was many years ago

of course and I don't remember much but they elluded to the rumor she may have been pregnant.

Like I said that about all I remember it was quite a few years ago and I was just a kid.

[Joe Fields]

52. Oh God, do we have to go through this again?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

78. Yes, in a word.

As long as Teddy Kennedy has a political career, and there are people aquiring the vote every year who weren't alive when this happened and don't know about it, you're going to have to keep going in to it to at least some extent, unless you want the more hostile and dubious versions of events to be accepted as fact, and hence causing people to vote against him/the Democrats.

I know very little about it - I'm a) English, and b) 22, so it's very much a distant event to me, but I do have to say that the hostility the OP has been met with and the reluctance to discuss it doesn't reflect well on Senator Kennedy.

[incapsulated]

87. I think people overreact to this, honestly

I don't understand why people here can't stand any discussion of this. Teddy isn't running for president, he is guaranteed his seat until he is too senile to serve. He did a bad thing, drank and drove, made terrible decisions and mistakes during that whole incident, a life was lost, and as a person and an elected official that will always be with him. Would he have walked away if his last name wasn't Kennedy? I don't know. But when we act as if this is either a) a pack of lies or b) that which shall not be spoken of, we fuel it as if it is some current "scandal" and not history and also negate the fact that the people of Massachusetts have obviously moved past this and seen fit to re-elect the man over and over.

Ted Kennedy is just a man, one who has suffered much, made terrible mistakes and has also served his state and his country honorably.

[trof]

53. I was in Boston then. I remember it well.

The info at the Wikipedia link above seems to be fairly accurate as far as it goes and as far as what we "knew"/heard/were told back then.

At the time, I thought it was the end of his political career, without question.

[LynneSin]

54. Chappaquiddick is Ted Kennedy's "Clenis"

(although mind you Chappaquiddick happened before Bill Clinton's blow job)

Ted Kennedy is perhaps one of our best senators and politicians ever. However, because he is a champion for the working class and much beloved by them, we need to use this stuff time and time again.

Remember, Laura Bush killed a man in her car and you don't hear us screaming MIDLAND everytime someone mentions her name. Perhaps we should start doing that

[Bridget Burke]

55. While Chappaquiddick probably cost him the Presidency....

It also probably saved him from being shot in the head like his two brothers. "A third Lone Gunman--what a coincidence!"

[windbreeze]

56. Have you ever had an auto accident?

I did just about two months ago...and I immediately went into what I now think of, as a state of shock...when the police asked me what happened, ....I couldn't tell them, because I honestly didn't know, it had happened so quick...I was just grateful that no one was hurt....It took a couple days for me to come down out of the shock and really think about what did happen, or what might have caused the accident..(by that time, for Kennedy, it was too late)

When Chappaquidick took place, Kennedy had already suffered through extreme personal shock and loss.....I have no doubt he was drinking too much, probably getting a little wild and crazy...I wonder how many of the rest of us, would have been doing the same things, under the circumstances...When you get right down to it...whatever anyone thinks happened, is entirely speculation...There are only two who could possibly know....God knows for sure...but it's possible that Kennedy may not fully understand, to this day, what really happened....(I think that would depend on how inebriated he might have been)

I cannot believe that it was a deliberate "accident"....Do any of us think he would not have understood what it was going to cost him, IF he got Mary Jo pregnant and then deliberately ran off that bridge to silence her.... come on....He wanted to be President, he wouldn't have risked that goal for something so juvenile...that's w/o even taking into consideration that the rich have resources, to deal with such tedious problems...he could have solved it, w/o being anywhere in the same proximity as she was....we also need to remember, that drinking/driving laws were a lot different than they are now....I know lots of people who drank then drove regularly, until the laws changed...back in those days, it was not hard to imagine anyone who would have done so...because just about everyone did....

I suggest that people need to look at his life since then...look at what he's done, what he's accomplished...accept that he has expressed remorse and has admitted he didn't act like he had a brain...or could it be, that shock also had something to do with his actions?...sometimes, we have to walk in a person's shoes, to fully understand....and unfortunately, none of us have...I say Ted's paid the piper in full...and it's too bad, this cannot be allowed to go away....
windbreeze

[rfkrfk]

59. did you huddle with your lawyers,and wait hours before calling police

in an accident with a fatality?

[madmunchie]

62. You have to remember, he was probably drunk, definitely in shock

and by the time he actually go to somebody, he most likely assumed that she was dead. That would be my guess. From everybody's responses, my information was pretty accurate and there really is nothing definitive that was shared here. While in physical and emotional shock AND given his recent history of brothers being slain, lets say that the situation for him making a good sound decision wasn't in the cards.

I have been in a couple of situations myself where I went into an emotional shock and you don't think clearly. Combine that with the trauma of the auto accident, him diving several times trying to save her and the alcohol in his system at the time - who the hell knows how well his mind was functioning. I believe it was one of those truly unfortunate tragic accidents that was really nobody's fault, other than that of a wild party of crazy youth that got the loaded chamber. Knowing all of the things that young adults do - well I think most of us can thank God (if you believe in him), that we are still in one piece.

[OzarkDem]

65. Kennedy didn't either

He and his friends called the cops and spent a lot of time trying to rescue Mary Jo.

Keep in mind, it was the late sixties, they were on a tiny island that was nearly deserted, off the coast the US. There were no cellphones, no ambulances, no EMS. It was the middle of the night and the ferry wasn't running.

The car was upside down underwater in a swift, rising tide. He knew once he got out of the car himself there was no time to walk a mile to get his friends. He began diving to rescue her immediately, in total darkness, no lights deep water. After about half an hour, he knew he had to get help and walked to get his friends. There was nothing anyone could have done and there were no better choices in this situation. He nearly drowned, himself, when he was trying to rescue her and again later when he was in shock with a concussion and swam nearly a mile to the mainland.

I hope you're never in a car accident and are held accountable for things you can't control and live with second guessing the rest of your life.

[TrogL]

69. Same here

I was in an accident and everything I knew about it (I've worked as a volunteer police office) went out the window.

I didn't get any names or addresses or insurance information. (Police officers did, so I was all right)

I ended up in the middle of the street directing traffic. (which needed doing, but so did collecting the information)

[Doctor_J]

60. Well, it's still being discussed on allegedly Dem forums

And in fact it happened before Laura killed her boyfriend, and before Smirk was arrested, or paid for his girl friend's abortion.

[Yupster]

70. Chappaquiddic was in 1969

Laura Bush's fatal crash was in 1963 I think.

[zulchzulu]

64. I saw Ted rip some guy a new one when he was in Iowa in 2004

There was a rally for Kerry in Dubuque, Iowa where Ted introduced John. I was helping out giving directions and getting people signed up at the entrance with others before the event started.

There was some freeperzoid who was at the entrance of the venue with some sign saying Ted committed murder or whatever. Poeple were getting pretty annoyed with the guy as he was chanting and trying to hand out flyers. Apparently, Ted caught wind of the guy and walked over to him and pretty much screamed at the old fella to leave. A couple of his staff/bodyguards basically told him to get lost. The dude left with his hair wrap flapping in the wind like a madman to his rusty van in the parking lot.

It was pretty cool. Ted doesn't take any shit from those asswipes.

[Gormy Cuss]

83. Ted's used to it.

I saw this one with my own eyes many time on trips to DC. For years there was a car parked in the National Airport VIP parking area, where most travelers would see it. The license plate said "chapqdk" or some similar abbreviation. At one time I knew which ass was responsible but I don't remember anymore.

[Neil Lisst]

72. Amazing that you spelled Chappaquiddick correctly.

Why would you post this topic other than to undercut the things Teddy is doing now for Democrats and Americans?

I ask myself "why this topic, why now?"

Finally, I ask myself "what are the odds someone who doesn't know about Chappaquiddick could spell it correctly without already having looked it up?"

[madmunchie]

73. You know, whether you like it or not some of us here just want honest

discussion. This gets brought up to me when politics comes up and I keep thinking "what the Hell about this event makes it so important and memorable?" It isn't a topic that I like coming up, for one thing, it all happened so long ago, and for another, in this illegal war, we are talking about thousands of people being killed, which is much more relevant. I just can't help but wonder what don't I know about this that they seem to know. The answer from this posting is nothing. There was no new news shared about this tragic event. SO, when this topic gets thrown in my face again I will be able to answer in full confidence using the sarcasm that I really wanted to use in previous confrontations.

I won my 5th grade spelling bee. When I stop and think I can usually guess a lot of "difficult" spellings. Seeing as I saw the name before many times over the years, it wouldn't take that much to sit, think, spell the word out a couple of times and settle. If you break the word up by syllables it becomes much easier to. AND believe it or not TRY SPELL CHECK, chappaquiddick. SEE, there are many ways in which to figure out how to do something without it being so ominous. Besides, isn't the DU supposed to be like a family? And if you cannot go to your family for frank discussions, who can you go to?

In closing, I just found out that my uncle and cousin were gangsters and murdered in 1962. Long ago, yes, interesting, yes, have I learned/realized anything because of learning this, yes. So just because it happened so long ago, doesn't mean that we should be so sensitive to it, once we become desensitized, it will be over.

[OzarkDem]

74. You've ignored a lot

if, as you say, you learned nothing new in this thread. Most of your arguments were discredited with facts, yet you say you learned nothing new.

You may want to re-read some of the posts here and reconsider.

[madmunchie]

75. What SPECIFICALLY have I said/argued that were discredited?

I just went thru and reread all of my posts on this thread and could find nothing in opposition of anything that anybody said.

[Virginian]

77. I think I would also rather hear about things like this from friends.

I refused to believe it and I wouldn't listen to the news about it because, I told myself, it just wasnt't true and some political enemy made it all up.

I have waited for years for someone to come forth with the facts that would exonerate Teddy. I believed that someone told him to take responsiblity and threatened his family if he didn't.

As I see here, no one has posted any conspiracy theories and everyone says it is a fact. I guess I must believe it, but I still don't want it to be true.

[madmunchie]

79. I've heard some conspiracy theories to, but from everything that

I have heard over the years from seemingly balanced people, I conclude that it was a tragic accident period. If Teddy were a poor man, he probably would have face stiffer penalties. That being said, I also believe that it cost him the Presidency, and that is one Hell of a price for anyone to pay. The fact that he has spent his life fighting for the little guy sets him so far above * that I wonder if Ted has any oxygen up there. Two guys from wealthy and influencial families groomed for politics, one family hit with countless unspeakable tragedies and one member of a generation raises to greatness despite all of the tragedies in his young life. The other raises to greatness (the Presidency) in the most superficial and dishonest of ways with nothing but cronyism amd deceit and thousands of death for his legacy. Such a stark contrast between the two men. One actually has a soul.

Honestly, with Teddy, I'd like to tell people that bring it up to shut the fuck up, but in trying to take the high road I usually say "How relevant is 1 life 30 years ago due to a drunken driving accident; compared to Thousands of lives due to lying us into an unjust war that is still going on; OR if you like vehicular homicide so much, ask Laura Bush why she killed her ex beau with her car?"

[madmunchie]

76. First you question my spelling, then you question my posts meanings

and validity. What is your problem?

[OzarkDem]

81. I didn't question your spelling

I think that was another poster.

The myths that keep getting repeated are

There was no investigation - there was, a coroners inquest and a grand jury - both played out in public under heavy media scrutiny; neither found any evidence of crime, only an accident

Kennedy didn't try to rescue his passenger - He did try to rescue her, diving into the water numerous times after the accident; when he couldn't reach her, he left to get help - on foot - the only way he could.

No one knows what happened - this incident has been investigated for years, all the evidence combed over, interviews with witnesses, etc. Nothing new has emerged, nothing has changed

It was a tragic accident, no crime was involved.

[juajen]

90. Uh, spellcheck really works, doncha know?

N/T

[GregW]

82. Take two of these and call me in the morning...

[freestyle]

85. Even sober, he could not have saved her.

It is completely dark there at night, and having gone off the bridge, none of us could have successfully returned to the car and saved the passenger. I'm sure the Senator will carry the pain of that night to his grave.

edited would to could, since that't what I was trying to say.

[dailykoff]

89. Knowing what I know today, I'd say it was a set up.

Just like all the assassinations, just like that hammer that hit Patrick Kennedy in the face a few weeks ago.

Do I know how they do this stuff? No. Do I know they do it? Yes. I learned on 9/11.

[juajen]

91. I agree that "somebody" is dogging the Kennedys

I also believe "they" killed John, Jr., his bride and her sister. Whoever "they" are, they have dogged the Kennedys to death, literally and figuratively. I believe that John, Jr. would eventually have gone political. I believe someone else thought that, also. I will never forget Ted Kennedy's lonesome, tragic face as they found John's plane.

I believe a lot of adults who went through those years had tears streaming down their faces as this child of Jack Kennedy's was retrieved from the deep. We all seemed to be in a perpetual state of shock. The tragedies just didn't stop, and these deaths brought all of those feelings back. I love the Kennedys and remembering them is a good thing. I hope they survive to once again challenge the status quo.

[Rene]

93. It was an accident and that's all. I saw the Chappaquidick bridge area

shortly after that happened.
The wooden 'bridge' over the canal angled off to the side, wasn't a straight line from the roadway.....area had NO lighting....and the edges of the bridge were no higher than a 2x4.
It was little more than a ramp with a bad angle to it. Traversing that in the daytime would have been dangerous. The water was deep, cold and extremely black --- you whould have been able to see nothing and multiple attempts to dive would have made you frozen and exhausted. There was nothing in the area...it was very a very remote summer cottage area; not very developed as yet....nowhere to make a phone call.
It was simply a dreadful accident.....and I think everyone was totally in shock over the loss of their friend _ Mary Jo.

[Hippo_Tron]

98. She was also drunk and she chose to get in the car with him

Of course it was a horrible accident and of course it was largely Kennedy's fault, but it's not like he murdered her. I think that she bears equal responsibility for her own death because she got in the car with him. Personally, I do think less of Ted Kennedy's character because of this incident but I don't use it to make him out to be a complete demon.

Laura Bush killed someone in a car accident. Do the Democrats make her out to be murderer? Bush got two DWI's, and that doesn't count the ones that his daddy probably got him out of. Bush drove drunk back in the 70's just like Kennedy, it's just that fate would have it that Kennedy got into a fatal accident and Bush didn't.

The sad part about all of this is that Kennedy is such a powerful voice for good and yet this incident almost in itself has marginalized him to the point where only people who agree with him actually listen when he is talking about important issues.

[proud patriot]

99. I'm locking this thread

It's flamebait, it's counter-productive and we frankly have better things to do around here than to discuss this again.

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground