The Repubs are giving up Taiwan??

[exlrrp]

Maybe this has been covered elsewhere--if so, snark and go in in peace, but did I hear Bush say last night with HU that he does NOT support independence of Taiwan?
Isn't this a major shift for the Repubs? (and also old, old democrats?) Last I heard, and have always heard, Taiwan was supposed to be fought for to the death by us, a "bastion" of democracy, it was a hard held tenet of the Cold War.
Does this mean that Bushco will start pushing for the reunification of Taiwan and China? hell must surely be freezing over with all those old Cold Warriors spinning in their graves.
Didn't the MSM notice that? thats a huge change in policy.
I figure that Bush caved on this because China is now financing a large portion of the US debt and, in the words of C Matthews to T Delay, "I owe you one. No I owe you two!" Whats REALLY intersting is that before 911, Bushco was setting up China to be their new Enemy--remember the spyplane that was sent home in pieces after Bush ramped up survellance of China?
Now Bush is buddybudddy with Hu as much as a Republican can be with a Commie.
I think Taiwan's independence died for Bush's deficit

[acmavm]

1. With friends like the bush** admin, who needs enemies. So I

guess the defend Taiwan regardless crowd have changed their minds. Or are getting paid under the table. Maybe they have investments in China. Does Halliburton have a subsidiary there?

[NewJeffCT]

5. look what they did with North Korea

We've had US troops in South Korea for over 50 years. NK has wanted nothing more than for us to get our soldiers out of SK that whole time. Every president, from Truman through Clinton has kept our troops there.

However, when Bush becomes president, he calls NK part of the Axis of Evil. NK responds by ramping up their nuke program & rattling their sabers. Bush's response is to announce that we're moving our troops out of SK, sending the message that we're backing down when confronted.

[NewJeffCT]

2. we've played both sides of the fence on this for a long time

We support Taiwan with military equipment & training. However, we also proclaim we support "One China", meaning the eventual reunification. Though, we always qualify that by saying we want both sides to resolve thie issue through diplomacy.

[ktlyon]

9. it wasn't to long ago that Bush was saying we would defend Taiwan

if China attacked. I didn't think "one China" has ever been our policy. I am not sure though. I don't think it was our policy under Clinton. Can someone clear this up for me?

[NewJeffCT]

14. Here is one from the BBC

Former US President Bill Clinton has called on China and Taiwan to set aside their differences and work together for common economic goals.

Mr Clinton made the remarks during a visit to Taiwan that has drawn criticism from China, but he said he stood by Beijing's One-China policy.

He later met Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian for a private dinner.

China fears Mr Chen wants to push towards independence for Taiwan - a move it would regard as an act of war.

The BBC's Chris Hogg in Hong Kong says that even though it is four years since Mr Clinton left the White House, Beijing does not like such a high-profile elder statesman setting foot on Taiwan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4301789.stm

[NewJeffCT]

15. And another from when he was president

Clinton Reaffirms One-China Policy

U.S. President Bill Clinton on Wednesday reaffirmed his support for the one-China policy. "I support the one-China policy," Clinton told a press conference at the White House which covered a broad range of issues around the world.

It is the second time in less than two weeks that Clinton reiterated his commitment to the one-China policy since Chen Shui- bian, candidate for the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), won the regional election in Taiwan on March 18.

Clinton noted that the United States made an agreement on the one-China policy with the Chinese a long time ago, "when we normalized relations under President (Jimmy) Carter, after a period of years of developing them, starting with President ( Richard) Nixon's historic trip there."

The one-China policy, he said, has ever since become "the unanimous bipartisan position of every president and every administration that that was the right decision."

http://english.people.com.cn/english/200003/31/eng20000331W104.html

Seems like the "one China" policy has been around since Carter & started under Nixon.

[ktlyon]

21. thanks

thanks for the info

[ktlyon]

22. thanks

thanks

[0007]

26. Aren't we even arming Taiwan?

[dipsydoodle]

3. Give that **** has a reputation

for being somewhat economical with the truth he actually meant the opposite.

[HereSince1628]

4. I believe independence for Taiwan was given up a generation ago.

Although it seems a little out of character with Bush's reich-wing base I don't believe Bush invented this.

I believe the position the US supported was of one of continuing democracy in Taiwan and no military aggression of China toward Taiwan. But that said it wasn't the position that Taiwan be recognized as an independent country.

[FreakinDJ]

6. China bought US debt

What did Jesus say about owing money....

[ktlyon]

7. If Bush said that it would be a major shift

I heard him say he wanted to resolve the issue peacefully in the afternoon. I don't know what he said later. This would be a very large change in the US position on Taiwan.

[exlrrp]

8. He DID say it!!

here's a link: http://www.rense.com/general31/bsays.htm "We intend to make sure that the issue is resolved peacefully, and that includes making it clear that we do not support independence," Bush added."
its completely amazing, a complete shift in policy--and no one seems to have caught it but a few

[enigma000]

16. There is no shift

The US has, since the 1970s, adhered to the "one China" policy and has opposed Taiwanese independence. They have also pledged to respect any agreement between the PRC and the ROC that is reached peacefully and freely. However, the US has also stated it will defend Taiwan should it be attacked.

Supporting independence for Taiwan would be a major shift.

[exlrrp]

20. The shift is in Bush's attitude

Youre right and thanks for the remind about the One China policy, its just a surprise to hear it coming from a Republican. Regardless of the One China Policy, the Chinese have been on the Republican (s)hit list since Mao's revolution. Anybody who sided with the Chinese on anything was "soft on" Communism to them

There's been huger shifts in Bush's attitude towards China from Pre-911.
When Bush took office, the then apparent "enemy" to focus on was China: the "reason" for the missle systems Bush was trying to push at the time. Bush ramped up the surveillance of China first thing, thats what the spyplane incident was about. Yeah Clinton did it too but not near as much.
Thats also why we were completely blindsided by 911: Bush was focused on China and didn't see the threat at all from the mideast. "Who would have thought people would fly airplanes into buildings?" Condi Rice, a cold war expert Bush brought in as his NSA advisor
What turned this around was the necessities of post 911-like Bush getting China to at least give lip service to the "War on Terrorism," a problem China doesn't have much of.
But now the situations changed completely. The media didn't say anything about it but the Hu visit was one of Mortageor visit to mortgagee.
What the MSM ISN'T talking about is how much China is into our ribs, thanks to the current administration, how much influence that buys and who its buying it from.
it intersting to see Republicans and Communist Chinese walking hand in hand off into a mortgaged sunset after all these years and decades of redbaiting and namecalling--and how the MSM syays nothing about it

[ktlyon]

23. wasn't the one China policy when we didn't recognize Red China

? Haven't we been saber rattling over China invading Taiwan for a long time?

[enigma000]

24. One-China Policy

In the case of the United States, the One-China policy was first stated in the Shanghai Communiqué of 1972: "the United States acknowledges that Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States does not challenge that position."

In fact, many scholars agree that US One-China Policy was not intended to please the Chinese government, but as a way for Washington to conduct international relations in the region, which Beijing fails to state.

When President Jimmy Carter in 1979 broke off relations with Taiwan in order to establish relations with the PRC, Congress responded by passing the Taiwan Relations Act, which while maintaining relations, stopped short of full recognition of the ROC. In 1982 President Ronald Reagan also saw that the Six Assurances were adopted, the sixth being that the United States would not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_Policy

[ktlyon]

25. thanks wikipedia is great

It is a very confusing subject.

[AlCzervik]

18. he said very clearly at yesterdays press conference-----

"I do not support Independence for Taiwan"

[sendero]

10. Let's get real here..

.... the US really, in the longer term, has no real say in the matter. It is as simple as that - we are not going to go to war over this, and over the long term we would not prevail if we did.

All the yak about Taiwan is just that, cheap talk. China is a smart country. They are building in strength as ours wanes every passing day. They could care less what we think.

[PATRICK]

11. The Congressional wingnuts

have been the ones harping on civil rights and Taiwan while the presidents distanced themselves from it.
With GOP Congress shown to be utterly too craven to challenge ANYTHING about Bush this is almost a casual
slap in the face to the dangerous rhetoric of the new Right. I even heard some GOP Rep. eating dirt on the human rights issues in honor of the Chinese visit. It was pathetic and at the same time they weakly brought out the menagerie of human rights issues at the same time Bush was showing he didn't give a damn.

But * may have gone too far and given China pause to wonder if they just might retake Taiwan because Bush will or can do nothing. But they must know Bush is more unstable than even the RW loonies themselves. I think they prefer a triangulation of pressure to shepherd isolated Taiwan toward them and nothing suits their purpose like hypocritical idiots backing down from impossible threats and confusing Taiwan's base support. It has to dismay and unsettle them.

[wake.up.america]

12. I do not even want the think about it. Bush has screwed America,

must now kowtow to China's whims. China has the upper hand. Without China's cash America would sink to new lows.

The Iraqi war is sucking America dry. The Chinese are rubbing their hands with delight.

Oil rich Arab countries are now less likely to put up with Bush's belligerence as a booming Chinese economy, thirsty for oil is waiting to take up the slack.

[exlrrp]

13. " We Will Buy You!!"

Remember that? it used to be "We will bury you!"

[Virginia Dare]

17. An astute DU'er pointed out before...

my apologies because I don't rememer who it was, but their point was that after China hosts the Olympics, they've reaped their billions and the last tourist goes home, it's over.

[Oversea Visitor]

19. Yup worldwide

Just saw it on my TV like 2 hours back
Bush saying US stand is that Taiwan part of China

Onlt thing agreed on
Others SNAFU as usual

Oh yeah Iran a big NO NO on sanction or military action