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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:49 PM
Original message
Trolls gone wild
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 07:00 PM by BobcatJH
Occasionally, we find our progressive blogs' comment threads infested with trolls. If you're somehow unfamiliar with the term, think of a troll as the drunk who pushes his way into your barroom conversation. The proverbial turd in the punchbowl, in the rather unlikely case there's a proverb out there about turds and punchbowls. You get the picture.

Comment trolls tend to be Republicans of varying stripes intent on disruption. From the blunt-force troll with little to say that's not of the four-letter word variety to the benevolent troll who stops by to lecture everyone on the best practices of blog management, trolls are annoying as shit.

But why stay annoyed when you can have fun instead? Make lemonade out of lemons, folks. Trolls are an everyday reminder that someone, somewhere, disagrees with what you're saying and considers it important enough to respond to. So stand proud, progressives! They hate us. They really, really hate us.

Just as there are myriad varieties of Republican voters, there are myriad varieties of Republican trolls. For brevity's sake, I'll talk about my three favorites: The benevolent troll, the blunt-force troll and the relapsing troll.

Benevolent right-wing trolls are often as predictable as their more vulgar fellow travelers. First, they insinuate themselves into a debate, posing as "independent thinkers". Then they regurgitate well-worn talking points that reveal them to be anything but nonpartisan. Once unmasked as right-wingers, the benevolent troll's saga usually ends in two ways. Neither, as you could imagine, are pretty.

One, the troll resorts to name-calling and baseless assertions, despite the fact they at first appeared to be "above the fray". Then, when confronted, they disappear completely without a peep. Or two, when confronted, they post one last jeremiad about how there's too much negativity on the site and they're leaving, because they've got better things to do. Only they brought the negativity. Only they don't have better things to do. They've decided to stop slumming and, I'm guessing, return to the Algonquin Round Table from whence they came.

While benevolent trolls are annoying, they're also rare. Most common are the blunt-force trolls, the commenters with absolutely nothing to add. They leave intellect and proper grammar behind. All they bring is invective. You could be a former member of the armed services with combat experience critiquing Donald Rumsfeld. But to them, you're a peace-loving hippie bastard with a latte in one hand and a joint in the other.

No matter who you are or what you say, you somehow fit into their image of liberalism. Pounding square pegs into round holes their best skill, because their worldview has been so scrubbed, sanitized and simplified that even the most complex issues have been reduced to good/evil arguments. Against the war in Iraq? You're with the terrorists! Against racist solutions to illegal immigration? You're with the Mexican terrorists! Against anti-choice and anti-gay bigotry? You're with the female and gay terrorists! Against the terrorists? You're with the ... you're with the ... you're just an asshole, asshole!

If you're lucky, these temporary tough guys rarely metastasize into the third type of pest. Like a dope-sick junkie who can't resist any longer, relapsing trolls frequently fall off of the wagon and return to their old progressive haunts. There, they arrive to announce that, not only is Bush-era conservatism the answer, but also that the site's owner and liberal guests remain clueless, hopeless fools.

These once-blunt-force trolls love to bring a "There you go again …" mentality to any argument. What's important to remember, however, is that they're the ones returning to overused, underdeveloped points usually yanked directly from Rush Limbaugh's formerly nicotine-stained fingers. Poor people are lazy. Rich people are virtuous, hard workers. Free markets are the answer. Wow, I've never heard a Republican say those things before!

Let's not fool ourselves. If you're going to advocate for change, there are always going to be naysayers out there who will fight you, tooth-and-nail, to reverse that progress. Is it worth it to debate them? Sometimes, but remember to keep your eyes on the prize, not the cesspool from where your Republican friends are slinging mud. Besides, if what you're saying is having that kind of effect among right-wingers, you've got to be doing something right.

So, which type of trolls are your favorite?
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. People who still support Bush are a lost cause.
But you described them all very, very well.

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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've often thought of developing...


... a troll/astroturfing blog/forum spider that would download articles as they appear on a bunch of different sites, and look for suspicious patterns like parapgraphs cut and pasted, time correlations between postings of various user IDs, etc. Then have a website that people can go to to see what the trolls and astroturfers are up to.

But it's more than I have free time or bandwidth for. Sigh.

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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Metatroll
That's a great, though time-consuming, idea!
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. WOW..this is SO spot on! Hugh!!11 and I am Series!!!11!!1
I chat at a liberal chat room and you have nailed them! BRAVO! I only wish you had more insight as to how to combat them in a non-combative sort of way....

But really as you imply..they are lost causes.
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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Try this
Try to get them to prove your point simply by responding. Call them panicky, for instance. Any response just comes off as devensive, which, in itself, is a panicked response.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. I read this and went to my usual chat room.and instead of arguing
I kept kicking it back...give me a link...oh..I am angry..and you are what exactly? you know..just reiterating their talking points..well I got iggied more than usuall..but I think I did very well tonight! Thanks...
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. just ask for evidence--they get huffy and repeat their talking points
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. yurbud..took your advise also..asked for links
everytime they claimed some fact..rather than railing I just asked for a link...and if they had not link, could they produce some sort of facts that backed up their ascertion...well like I said...I felt very cool, but got iggied more than usual..but NOT one person said..'are you off your meds'..you know ..that stuff...thanks both of you!
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. iggied? the only comeback they have to asking for links is....
"Haven't you heard of GOOGLE?"

And in fairness, if it is a real person with real passion about the issue, asking the question will drive them to their bookmarks, history, and favorite websites to answer your question, and they won't be able to rest until they do.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Only logical to expect more TROLLS
As matter of fact they go stark crazy mad when bush comes tumbling down.
They need some LOVING, their world no more
They be confuse hurt and lost
So where to go get some LOVING

DU got lots of LOVING people.
Think maybe here only place where they can get healing
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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Oh man!
I anticipate a massive troll migration to the liberal blogs, as though the blogs are the escape hatches for Bush-era conservatism's sinking ship. Sorry, there's no room for you here, trolls.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Someone could run a nice website with the collective wisdom of
the RW troll. So are pretty well known in the blogoshere....I'm thinking of I-Right-I and Gary Ruppert over at Think Progress as representitive of idiot Bushbots who can find an upside in all things Bush.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. benevolent troll -- that gave me a giggle.
great description!
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Those (benevolents) seem to be the most frequent kind here at DU.
Been seeing a number of them lately.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. I liked this one the most, too ... it really made me LOL.
especially the ones who say they are "independents" and then regurgitate all the RW talking points.

This is just an excellent description by BobcatJH
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. the first paragraph alone deserves a k&r!!
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 07:54 PM by spooky3
now to read the rest of it! :-)
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Another saga of dancing with trolls
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 08:27 PM by lwcon
My lost weekend with the trolls in supposedly "neutral" forums:

http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/04/world-is-not-liberal-enough.html

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"
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guinivere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. Spot on. K&R nt
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you for the lovely read!
Filled with funny metaphors beautiful sentence structure!

I laughed, I cried, I loved it!

:)
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. None.
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 08:50 PM by AuntiBush
Are my favorites - absolutely none of them. DU is the first place I check daily for news, and updates as much as its the last place I read before heading to bed. I feel most fortunate finding this place as it brings comfort amid the hazy storm knowing one is not alone.

While I don't always log-in, its merely because I don't always feel like I can write as well as others or I'm just merely tired. Still, I'm getting where I can almost spot a trolls post here at DU because of the way they debate others repeatedly. I'm just as glad (though) to see most DUers pick right-up on this and immediately place that troll where they belong. In the unintelligent-toilet.

Read that one link http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/2005/09/blogging_101_co.html

Shew. They're talking points are unbelievable, pushing that troll-mentality agenda.
:)
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. There's another type of troll.
I call it the "busy work" troll. Just like the teacher you had in the 3rd grade
that would assign 'busy work' to you to keep you occupied and out of trouble,
the 'busy work' troll 'assigns' a known divisive topic(abortion, Southern-bashing,etc.) for us,
or uses a current event(like Natalie or the recent Duke rape).

An interesting thing I noticed recently was a poster who was literally posting around the clock, with about 2 hours down-time between each flurry of postings.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. I noticed there were repeated threads started and re-animated on the fora.
Edited on Sat Apr-22-06 05:08 AM by TheBaldyMan
As one threads outrageous posts were quashed and refuted another would appear as if by magic and the drivel would continue.

It is either a deliberate attempt to spam the boards or some posters just can't admit they are in error.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I think it also starts a vicious cycle
due to the troll posts needing to be refuted.
The only good thing to come out of some of the threads is that it causes some people to really think thru their position on things.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I am afraid I've grown really tired of refuting the Iran is an immediate
threat. The main trouble is having to refute the same talking points again and again and again ...

I could get RSI and the trolls would keep posting.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. It's kind of like a continual teach-in.
We've got to keep cycling in the new people.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. How about Least favorite? Two kinds, closely related
One is the Typhoid Mary type, spreading dissension everywhere they post, by intent, finger on the fault lines.

The other is the Pit Bull in the Pit type, the one who locks it's writing jaws around a Democrat they are seeking to destroy, they never lose sight of their target and they will never let up; "Damn the true picture, full speed ahead!"
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks, now sign me up for the Latte AND joint
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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Ha ha
Me too. Me too.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. well this deserves a kick!
welcome to the site!
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. ahhh.... you missed one: The "Buckley Wannabe" troll.
Related to the benevolent troll, but without the smarm. The BW stalks in with its intellectual pretension bristling all over it like a horny toad. It has a vast repertoire of "facts" at its command and huge list of links and references to neofascist websites and institutions, almost all of which have the credibility of that "Institute for Tobacco Research" thingie in "Thank You For Smoking." They are skilled at straw man, stalking horse, bait-and-switch, false dichotomy, and a variety of other obfuscatory debate tactics.

Fortunately, the Buckley Wannabe is a very rare troll, as it requires vestigial cognitive capabilities that are far beyond most GOPpies.

helpfully,
Bright
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
26. Hilarious title
sounds like a great video series. watching those idiots drool and foam at the mouth would just be great
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
28. Love the name-caller. Hate the time-waster. Good, fun writing. Thanks.
Loved it when DU was young. One troll listed a long diatribe of name-calling. I just arranged all the adjectives in a list and continued with, ... but, what about the ... issue.
They did not respond further.

I miss those days. Hate the deleted posts.

Loved your writ.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. I like stealth trolls the best
all the time they are wasting....
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. Excellent post Bobcat!
I am always in the hope that on occasion, a troll might accidentally learn something here in spite of them selves, and they will have one of those Space Odyssey 2000 moments just as the primitive ape when it threw the bone in to the air and you hear that great music.





:kick:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
35. My favorite are the "Care-Bear Trolls"
The ones who attempt to play on what used to be called "liberal guilt".

They tell you that anger makes you "just like them". They authoritatively inform you that "you are the reason no one ever votes 'Democrat' anymore." and that "it's so sad" or "it's just sad". Of course an unjust war, or catastrophic negligence by the Bush administration is never "sad", it's your "mean" attitude towards Rebukes that rend the hearts of those loving and evolved creatures of deepest concern.

The technique probably worked well for arm-wrestling opponents at suburban cocktail parties in the 70's, and for that reason when I see them here I imagine some old fweezer parked by his PC in golf shoes and a striped, heavily pilling acrylic polo, his mighty beef-and-Bourbon belly straining the weary threads of the vintage fabric.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
36. i'm gonna kick this.
i want the trolls here to be uncomfortable for a wee bit.


they always think we don't know they're here.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kick.(nt)
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