THE AMERICAN VOTERS ARE NOT "IDIOTS"

[Jeffersons Ghost]

In questions directed at Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, retired CIA Analyst Ray McGovern said "these people aren't idiots." Essentially, a recent Gallup Poll proves he was correct.

(CNN) -- Nearly six in 10 Americans oppose the war in Iraq and a growing number of them are dissatisfied with the war on terrorism, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Monday.

Only 39 percent of those polled said they favored the war in Iraq -- down from 47 percent in March -- and 59 percent were opposed. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/20/poll/

Republicans obviously placed "yes men" in high positions but as lies become a mainstay to cover-up wrong-doings voters begin to see the light. It is not much of a stretch to predict that in November illumination will strike like lightning, as we continue to "stay the course."

Ray McGovern not only accused Rumsfeld of lying but also went on to present exact quotes by the Defense Secretary to support his allegations. CNN later offered video, which proves beyond doubt that all comments by McGovern are true.

True leaders are never "yes men" and we need leadership both in the CIA and on the field of combat now more than ever but our proven leaders continue to abandon the sinking ship called the occupation of IRAQ.

Is this why five field generals have "retired" while offering highly critical comments directed toward the administration?

Is this why the administration goes through CIA Directors at a record rate?

Here's the story complete with a link that shows the confrontation:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/04/rumsfeld.ap/

Hecklers interrupt Rumsfeld speech

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Protesters repeatedly interrupted Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld during a speech Thursday, and one man, a former CIA analyst, accused him of lying about Iraq prewar intelligence in an unusually vociferous display of anti-war sentiment.

"Why did you lie to get us into a war that caused these kind of casualties and was not necessary?" asked Ray McGovern, the former analyst.

"I did not lie," shot back Rumsfeld, who waved off security guards ready to remove McGovern from the hall at the Southern Center for International Studies. (McGovern talks to CNN about Rumsfeld)

With Iraq war support remaining low, it is not unusual for top Bush administration officials to encounter protests and hostile questions. But the outbursts Rumsfeld confronted on Thursday seemed beyond the usual. (Watch protesters confront Rumsfeld -- 3:20)

[Greyhound]

1. Yes Virginia, they are. Everyone with a room temperature IQ or

higher, could tell this moran was a charlatan doomed to fail yet again from day one of the primaries in 2K. Now that 6 years have passed and all of his schemes have been exposed for what they are, you want to give them credit?

[The Magistrate]

2. As A General Rule, Sir

Telling people they are stupid is a poor way to win them over to your position....

[Jeffersons Ghost]

3. OIC, that was directed at the subsequent post not the OP

OIC, sorry

[Jeffersons Ghost]

4. Look at this funny graphic; I wish I'd found it sooner

[0007]

8. The poster deserves the three "F's"

Fan Fucking Fantastic

[Greyhound]

5. True, OTOH I don't believe we're going to win them over anyway

so one may as well state the obvious. They may vote for a Dem this time, but that doesn't mean they have had a revelation and now understand the errors of their ways. They wanted what shrub was selling and will vote for the next charlatan that comes along with promises to "restore amerika's greatness".

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. I can only speak from personal experience

but the four "old school" Republicans who called me last month to say that they HAD seen "the light," will never vote Republican again. Only last week, while registering minority voters who had lost so much faith in the system that they once pledged, "never to vote" I again saw illumination flash across a weathered old face who had NEVER voted before. She was born in 1910 and will vote for the first time in her life in upcoming elections.

Of course, things may be different in your home state, I live in Alabama.

[The Magistrate]

7. Should That Be Taken To Mean, Sir

You do not think this is a great country? It does not trouble me if you do not, certainly, but the great majority of people in this, or for that matter in any other country, do tend towards that belief regarding their own land, and a political line that contradicts this view has no chance of gaining mass following absent a crisis so grotesque it makes our current troubles seem like a quiet stroll in a flower garden by compare.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

9. personal opinion is not presented in the OP because it is not important

Compared to a thief or liar, even a humble honest person like myself is "great."

but let me ask a few questions:

Does a country become more or less "great" when it allows personal freedom to decay?

Does a country become more or less "great" when it invades a lesser country with only profit as a motivation?

Does a country become more or less "great" when it allows mega-cooperations to drive the middle class into poverty with high fuel prices? Will we be great after a two-class system takes hold? What does exporting jobs while importing cheap labor do to the middle class?

Einstein said "the only constant in the universe is change." On a minute to minute basis we become more or less "great."

It's up to each of us to decide if the actions we take will benefit society as a whole. Picture the weakest person you've ever met and ask yourself if the actions you contemplate will be of any use to him/ her. When a country passes that acid test it achieves true greatness.

I refuse to lower my standards and compare a country I fought for with petty tyrant governments.

[The Magistrate]

10. My Personal Answer, Sir, To All Five Of Those Questions, Is No

All these things diminish the country, and it seems beyond question that they do.

But the attachment most people have to the view their own land is great is an emotional and felt one, not rational and reasoned one. They are as loathe to let go of it as anyone is to end an affair of the heart in their personal life.

This is why an appeal to restore greatness will always trump a simple demonstration the place is not so great at all in gaining public support.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

12. do you want to know how to make it "more great?"

When faced with issues that erode not only basic democracy but also a primary element of social greatness, the middle class; how can we improve our country?

Registering minority voters is a start but there's more...

First, just because Democratic leaders appear to make a few reasonable points NO ONE can slack off on efforts to destroy a monsterous injustice. Nothing is more dangerous than a wounded animal.

Second we can't afford to sweat the small stuff, like Diebold. While we better keep getting the scam warnings out, we still must ensure a gigantic turnout in upcoming elections.

I notice Republicans aren't making the same effort to help get minorities to the polls as us, so we all better pitch in and take up their slack; Diebold threat or not. Diebold talk is likely just a scare tactic to induce Democrats not to vote.

[raccoon]

18. Some good points you made about improving our country.

"First, just because Democratic leaders appear to make a few reasonable points NO ONE can slack off on efforts to destroy a monsterous injustice. Nothing is more dangerous than a wounded animal. "

and the Junta is a wounded animal.

"I notice Republicans aren't making the same effort to help get minorities to the polls as us"

Why doesn't that surprise me? :sarcasm:

[manic expression]

17. However,

is this an "appeal to restore greatness", or simply a lie?

I, for one, will not bow to reactionary rhetoric. I will not tow the clearly delusional line because it is popular. I think that it is possible for the holder of such views to gain popular support, even if it is unlikely.

I've heard all of those appeals before, from both sides of the idle aisles, and nothing has come of it.

It's time for the truth. It's time to speak the truth to both power and ignorance, and when that happens, progress is truly possible.

[Greyhound]

11. Sir, I believe that the concept of America is, in fact, great,

unfortunately, we have very rarely lived up to that concept. In the last 25 - 50 years we have become amerika, and the majority have been content to become mindless sheep, bleating and chewing their cud, while the wolves have run amok.

The irrational emotionalism that dominates the majority is one of the three tools that the wolves have used to control them. My personal belief is that things will continue to degrade until it becomes intolerable to the lower classes and they will, once again, fall into the trap of following the next dictator to their own destruction.

I guess it is, IMO, a situation where a truly great idea is wasted on the undeserving and unappreciative, pearls before swine. I used to have hope for us, but I learned in the 80's that the sheeple simply don't care about anything beyond their own pathetic delusions.

The other tools are fear and greed.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

13. I really like the way you describe the three tentacles of the monster

Illusion, fear and greed are indeed the motivating principles that currently drive the masses and always did, according to history.

It's all kind of dark and ominous but, to me, has a Raven-like poetic feel.

We should co-compose a thread, some day. My ringing optimism can always stand a nice dark balance. :-)

After all; What is illumination without darkness?

[Greyhound]

14. I would welcome the opportunity. I was just composing a post along these

lines and just decided not to post it as I really like coming to DU and would hate to be tomb-stoned for criticizing the DNC, it just isn't worth it.

[Greyhound]

15. A proposal; Instead of further compromising our principles

in order to "win over" those that hate us, why don't we try taking a stand and laying out a clear, specific agenda to give the overwhelming majority that doesn't even vote anymore a reason to vote for us. Plain old-fashioned populism, a la Huey Long, is the winning ticket, IMO.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

16. I just let Republicans keep furnishing reasons for non-voters to register

I don't need to "politic" like grand-dad did because local red-neck skin-heads and treasonous robber-barron leaders create plenty of unrest in minorities down south.

[raccoon]

19. In your canvassing, have you been to any Hispanic households?

I know, a great many of them aren't eligible to vote.

But seems to me too many Hispanics are attracted to Bushco because they perceive him as being a Christian and all that.

True, the ones I ran into who felt that way attended a fundie church.

[wiggs]

20. Not idiots, but very maleable

The work of McGovern, Colbert, Edmonds, Wilson, gang of six generals, Johnson, Wilkerson, et al has taken its toll on approval ratings right now. But we've learned from the last six years that ruthless PR, spin, deception, division, lack of aggressive media, muddled dem framing of issues, and a lazy public can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The 06 race will become much closer. Approval/disapproval ratings are one thing...voting for a member of the opposite party in the face of CONSTANT smearing/ridicule of that party is quite another. I remain hopeful regarding november, but believe that approval ratings aren't going to translate to a landslide victory across the board due to "illumination that strikes like lightning"