'Securing our Border'

[Stinky The Clown]

First ... don't we have more than one border? Or are we just worried about the brown skinned border?

Next, the whole fucking argument is so much intellectual dishonesty.

Our borders are, indeed, wide open, but it isn't the 'Mexicans' that are the issue. Hell, they're not even the whole of the 'problem'. We have many Asians and Eastern Europeans also here illegally. No one wants to talk about **that**. Just get them little brown skinners and we'll all be better off.

How about this? How about an HONEST FUCKING DEBATE on busting and jailing the enablers? The **big** companies that hire illegals.

My fear, if we ever decide to go down that path, is we'll be bustng some poor schlub in San Ysidro who unknowingly hires an 'illegal' to move some cheap tulips from the back of a rusty pickup truck to holes in his flower bed.

And this whole 'guest worker' crap. Legal slavery.

FUCK these republicans. Just fuck the WHOLE GODDAM BUNCH OF THEM

Fuckem fuckem fuckem fuckem fuckem ............ :grr:

And one last thing ..... the term 'invasion'. More belicose terms to pander to the baser emotions. To our national hate button. Our national xenophobia. Why the term 'invasion'?

I HATE THESE MOTHERFUCKERS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. It has a name

you kind of put your finger on it

MISCEGINATION... bear in mind part of the base is the white identiy movement.

[blondeatlast]

14. Da-DING! A friend's wife had been here for years with no problem

whatsoever before they got married.

Two months after the wedding, she was sent back temporarily.

Metal hats mess up my dye job, but I gotta wonder...

[babylonsister]

2. And they've managed to change the debate again, haven't they?

Shredding the constitution? Illegal spying? Plame investigation? HOOKERgate? Nope, not happening.
:(

[Turn CO Blue]

3. Agree. Yep.

Tens of thousands of Europeans and others from non-Latino countries are here and are OVERSTAYING THEIR VISAS (which is the same damned thing as being HERE ILLEGALLY) and you don't see the regular commentators (you know who they are) on this board griping about that, do ya? Wonder why?

Hmmmm. Europeans - white. Mexicans - brown.

And those damned Repubs surely do know how to shove hard on the wedge issues and hot/hate buttons.

[MrTriumph]

4. Mexico's economy is the problem. 1 in 5 Mexicans are in the US

The Mexican economy is the problem.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Your point being ...... ?

[MrTriumph]

7. I was answering the original poster's question.

"First ... don't we have more than one border? Or are we just worried about the brown skinned border?"

So the answer is this: Securing the border has nothing to do with skin color. If 12 million Canadians were here illegally, there would be a similar outcry.

In addition, the American jobs most damaged by illegal labor are held by Americans of all races.

On final note: A Pew Research study found about half of Mexicans coming to the US were not unemployed. They quit their jobs in Mexico to come to the US.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Uh ... I am the OP

You got closer to your point, I guess.

Look, if this were about bordersecurityinapost9/11world, we'd be slapping the door shut on the Canadian border, too. It is actually easier to come across than the southern border. And brownskins did not cause our country the *actual fucking damage* that we're all doing penance for. They were middle easterners. And they would have crossed that border essentially unnoticed.

You remember that pesky liddle Millenium plot the Clinton folks busted?

Vancouver ... as in Canada. You know ... that northern border. The one with mostly white folks crossing.

And what about our water borders? Why are we not closing them too. Want a nuke-in-the-box in our port?

Gimme a fucking break. ANY program focusing on the Mexcican border ALONE is racist.

Convince me I'm wrong.

[MrTriumph]

10. The point is we don't have a problem with 8 million Canadians taking jobs

from Americans. And since Mexicans don't enter the US through Canada, that leaves the Mexico-Us border the issue.

[primavera]

21. We don't have a problem with 8 million Latinos taking jobs

You're falling into the trap so many fall into by assuming that the number of jobs remains static and discounting the fact that as the population grows, the number of jobs grows with it. If 8 million Latinos came to the US and worked 8 million jobs, but as a consequence the economy were to grow by 8 million jobs, the number of jobs available to native workers would change by precisely zero. Admittedly, it's probably not a perfect 1:1 ratio like that and I don't know off the top of my head how many new jobs have been added as a result of migration, but almost every serious study out there on the impact of migration on wages has concluded that the impact is negligible, precisely because the number of jobs has grown at a rate which more or less matches the influx in the migrant worker population.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. SHAME on you Kevin

Apply fact and reason to an emotional issue? How *dare* you? What are you? Some kind of .... Democrat??????

[primavera]

25. Sorry, I'm prepping for the LSAT at the moment...

... and must have lost my head there. It's all those damned logic problems.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I'm glad you learned your lesson

Don't let happen again.

Good luck on the exams. Lead with your heart. :)

( ..... another lawyer ... just what we need .... :wink: )

[C_U_L8R]

6. Republicans are Racist

No question about it...
and no qualms at all about making
a blanket statement characterizing
the whole nasty bunch as racist bigots.

It's the truth.

[Tim Osman]

9. Militarized borders

They are tightening the noose.

[newyawker99]

11. Hi Tim Osman!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Quantess]

12. Please don't flame me for this...these are not my words

While surfing an ebay discussion board, I saw this. It's someone's signature line:

"*Why is it not obvious to liberals that people who commit a crime to be in the US are the type of people likely to commit crimes?* "

It had me scratching my head a bit. Anyway, just thought I'd share a talking point from the other side.

[jerry611]

13. Canadians, Europeans, and Asians arn't invading us by millions

This issue has absolutely nothing to do with racism. It has to do with economics. That's all there is to it. The corporations want to gurantee that there will always been that large population of unskilled workers. That's the only way they can make enough profits to compete with the world.

[primative1]

15. Racist or Rational

I see nothing racist in the desire to reestablish this nation as a sovereign one. Its a pretty simple question. Either we are a nation or we arent.

[jerry611]

16. I am so sick of the race card being used

Usually the first person to point out someone's skin color are the racist ones and also the ones that lost the argument.

Liberals and conservatives that favor illegal immigration are very quick to point out that Mexicans have brown skin. That's where the racism lies.

[Comadreja]

17. IMF, NAFTA, etc.

..were what led to this mess. Poor Mexican rice farmers are suddenly in competition with ADM, and thrown out of their livelihood. Clinton signed some of this anti-labor corporatocracy. Now we face a militarized border and no doubt a new expansion of the prison/industrial complex. Revoke corporate personhood instead...and tear upall "Free" Trade agreements that enslave people for the new dictators...corporations.

[Sparkly]

18. For anyone concerned with terrorism....

the Canadian border is vulnerable. So are all our ports.

That is a far greater threat than any "invasion" of Mexicans -- welcomed by Bush cronies, I might add -- imho.

[primative1]

19. Terrorism ... Only Terrorist I know wear suits

They sit in positions of power at every corporation on this globe. And what terrorizes me is that look that they get every time they cut me a paycheck. Hmm ... if there was only a way to cut some costs on this is what they think. If there was a way .... hmmm.
I worked in a now defunct plastic company once and had the pleasure of witnessing a conversation between the companies president and its HR manager. It seemed that a 20 year employee of the company was asking for a 25 cent raise. The company president howled about how he wasnt running a charity and then stormed off to lavish himself with a pricy lunch.
As a followup within a few years most of the employees of the company becamee Asians of unknown origin and shortly thereafter the company was sold and its product line assumed by one that manufactured exclusivly in 3rd world countries.
Jobs offshored, workers imported ... the beat has gone on too long.
As one of the tens of millions of people that the governement doesnt count as unemployed because we "volunterily left the work force to pursue other opportunities" I am terrorised. I am terrorised as I see our great democratic leadership rubberstamp 10-20 million more ammnesties while again cruching any attempt to actualy guarantee us that they will shut down the flow, stampede of foreigners whos presense only makes our road harder to hoe.

[nmliberal]

20. The terrorists in suits are the ones who scare me, too

Their greed, their arrogance, their lack of concern for other people, their sense of entitlement...

[Igel]

22. "Invasion" is a charged word.

It what Mexican authorities used in the 1820s to refer to the "Vandals and Visioths" that would "invade" their northern territories and finally strip them away from their proper colonial masters, the Mexicans.

Of course, nobody could see "Vandal" and "Visigoth", Germanic tribes, as in any way related to Angles and Saxons.

Push came to shove when the Mexican government altered the constitution, became restrictive in their immigration policies, and deprived the newcomers of what they considered necessary for their rights and dignity. And then, in a fit of nationalist paranoia, decided a minor rebellion was worthy of being crushed with military force. Voila. Local resistance + incredible stupidity and ignorance at the top of the Mexican government = Texian independence.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Sorta like 'crusade' .... followed by

'oops'

Yup