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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:30 PM
Original message
Hillary Kills the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg
Edited on Mon May-15-06 11:33 PM by pstans
Over the weekend, Hillary Clinton attacked young people at an event for the US Chamber Commerce. Clinton had this to say...

"Kids, for whatever reason, think they're entitled to go right to the top with $50,000 or $75,000 jobs when they have not done anything to earn their way up," the Dems' 2008 White House front-runner said.

"A lot of kids don't know what work is. They think work is a four-letter word," she told a Republican-leaning audience gathered at the annual U.S. Chamber of Commerce convention.

"We've got to send a different message to our young people. America didn't happen by accident. A lot of people worked really hard. They've got to do their part, too."


Is it so wrong for 20-somethings to want a good paying job after doing everything they are supposed to do in their lives? They graduate from high school where they participate in many activities and get good grades. Then they head off to college where they likely have to work a part time job to help pay for the raising cost of tuition. They do all of this because their entire lives they hear about the importance of a college degree and the Surburban Dream. Finally, they graduate, knee deep in student loans, ready to get out in the working world. Welcome to our debt-for-diploma system.

When I first heard that Hillary said this I didn't believe it, but then I saw the clip of her saying it on the Daily Show tonight and was shocked. It just looked like she was pandering to the so-called swing voters. All politicians do that, however, you can do that without turning your back on the people that elect you. If you look at the people that staff campaigns the majority are 20-somethings that are working long hours for little pay. I have one question for Hillary...

What is the only age demographic to vote for Kerry in 2004?
Answer: 18-30 year olds
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. i dont see anything wrong with what she said.
people should work their way up, not expect to start at the top.

is there something controversial there?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True - Hillary was being logical and truthful - a nice change from Bush!
:-)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Hillary was full of shit and she pissed off an entire generation
including her daughter Chelsea, to whom she had to apologize.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/15/clinton.apologize.ap/index.html
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. She apologized,
Edited on Tue May-16-06 12:12 AM by AtomicKitten
but that never stopped a pile-on.

The incessant hard-on for trashing Hillary really dilutes these kind of responses.


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. The only pile-on is from the Hillary choir singing Hosannahs to her
upcoming Divinity. Enough Bushes and Clintons!

Hillary's latest faux paux is evidence that the presumptive Presidential nominee is vulnerable to her own shortcomings.

A lot of people voted for Bush in 2000 thinking they were going to get someone like his father. They were wrong. Many people support Hillary without even knowing her stand on the issues because they long for another Bill Clinton. Guess what? Hillary is no more a Bill Clinton than George W. Bush is his father.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. did you hear? she eats babies too
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. She would if it would gain her votes!
Good old Hillary, may she stay as Senator from New York for the next 20 years.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. You want to know what I think when I read your posts?
DU may welcome/tolerate your nonstop Democrat bashing, particularly Hillary bashing, but every time I hear a Republican talk about Hillary as being the possible Dem nominee, they also mention the profound resistance to her from the far left, and I think of you and your ilk and I resent the hell out of you. You may not be paid for your dirty work, but you are doing the Republicans dirty work nonetheless.

You act like your opinion is it, that your twisted interpretation of the facts is the answer, the truth. You have such a twisted way of evaluating things, always starting with hating the Democrat, particularly Hillary, and working backwards. You are so convinced your opinion is golden and that if people don't agree they are drinking the kool-aid, but so much of what you write is absolute nonsense.

Feh.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hillary supports the war, I don't!
If Hillary were more like Kerry, Feingold, or Gore, you wouldn't be hearing the Left attack her like we do.

Hillary, Biden, and Lieberman are the neolib/PPI imperialists, and are as anathema as the necon/PNACers.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. I thought only question is the time frame for withdrawel where Hillary
has not signed on to a date certain, but is pushing for a "goal" date.

Granted not as strong as you want IG - and not as strong as I want - but she, I do not believe, "supports the war".

The effect - staying longer than mecessary, and the lack of a statement saying her IWR would have been a "no" based on the info known today, are negatives, but I would not call her a war supporter.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
50. Ah, projection
such a fascinating phenomena to watch in action.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
74. especially if one actually had a clue what it means
What's really interesting, well maybe not so much, is the rhetoric, the buzzwords of the fractious, radical left (i.e., projection, DINO, cognitive dissonance, etc.), parroted here at DU in a one-size-fits-all fashion.

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. That "whooshing" sound you heard
was the point flying over your head.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. You would be intimately familiar with that sound
having heard it repeatedly yourself.

If you have a point, get back to us.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. It's on top of your head, sunshine.
Oh, please. I'll let you know when you're ready to play with the big girls.:rofl:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. That's all you folks have, isn't it?
insults
rhetoric
ridicule
pretzel logic

Which is precisely why nobody else takes you teensy cabal of faux radicals seriously. I guess the joke's on you, sister.

Later.



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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
58. wow.
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #24
68. I'm fairly moderate (not DLC-corporate whore moderate)
and I don't support a Hillary nomination, either.

Why? Because she won't flip any red states.

So, it's not just the left-wing of the party who doesn't like her message.

She can be the senator of NYC for many, many years and I'd have absolutely no problem with her, but I want to flip some purplish/red states and she isn't the person to do that. I want to unite this country, not divide it.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. there's a big difference between not supporting a nomination
and using every misstep to launch a tirade trashing her entire career. Guess what? I don't want her to get the Dem nod either. But I'll be damned if I will continue to sit by silent while the barrage of half-truths against a fellow Democrat continues to insidiously erode these boards. My point is more expansive than Hillary. My point encompasses all Democrats that are deemed DINOs based purely on the notion that they don't pass the sniff test of the unrealistic expectations of some here. Because when push comes to shove, any Democrat is a hell of a lot better than any Republican.

Have you heard? Bush is wiretapping Americans without a warrant. Cheney has been implicated in the Plame outing. Rove is about to be excused by millions of GOP'ers for perjury. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dying because of Junior's insane foreign policy. And our planet is dying.

Sorry kids, but one has only so much wrath and the Republicans egregious crimes against the planet deserve our attention. Hillary making a dumbass comment is minutia in the bigger scheme of things. She apologized. BFD. Move on.


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
109. And what have Lieberman and Hillary say about those issues you mentioned?
Have you heard? Bush is wiretapping Americans without a warrant. Cheney has been implicated in the Plame outing. Rove is about to be excused by millions of GOP'ers for perjury. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dying because of Junior's insane foreign policy. And our planet is dying.


(the sounds of silence)

I rest my case!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #109
121. 5 minutes and Google
Regarding Hillary (I'm not going to do any further homework for you), I spent 5 minutes on Google and have disproved your assertions that Hillary has no comment about the following.

Again, it's your half-truths and flat-out false assertions that are tiresome yet so predictable. You have no credibility. Yes, we get it; you hate Hillary. So what? Lying about her to persuade others is nothing short of loathsome.


Hillary blasts Bush spy program:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usspy264601566jan26,0,2689408.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/30/124754.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182785,00.html

Hillary blasts Bush on Katrina:
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013731.html

Hillary blasts Bush on war:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ny-ushill0209,0,4059951.story?coll=sfla-newsnation-front




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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #73
114. Don't waste your time with the
"Hillary haters" your points as always are right on the money!

What she said has merit and the people who don't like her will always have something to pick apart no matter what she says......

I predict this one will be forgotten by noon tomorrow!!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #68
107. Excellent point! Someone like Wes Clark would be competitive in Indiana
where Bush's numbers are in the toiled and the Republican Governor has pissed off even traditional Republicans.

Hillary would scare even those that vote Democratic, she is so loathed in here.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. Did you read her apology?
She said she apologized to her daughter (who is exactly the style that begins at the top with a 6-figure salary, but implied that those who are complaining about getting low salaries (presumably because their name is less famous and they did not go an Ivy League college) and are complaining that they cant repay their loan with much smaller salaries do not want to work.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
77. She only apologized to Chelsea
That's not the same as apologizing to an entire generation that she insulted.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
118. only to chelsea
so why would that stop the "pile on"?
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
63. I agree with her.
I did mortgage loans for 30 years. Kids now just expect to start out in a $200,000 house and have two new cars.

I don't think its their fault. They just have been raised that way.

But then they hit the real world and they just have a hell of a time. The corporate atmosphere is really cutthroat and they have no ability to deal with it. It is just a huge ajustment for them to have to make.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #63
97. Psst... $200K won't buy much house in metro markets anymore.
I was lucky to get mine for $145K 6 years ago, and it needed extensive work at the time (new furnace, new roof, flooring). If I were to buy my house today, I'd start at $225K and thank my stars I got it for that. And mine is 1400 square feet, in a neighborhood of long, narrow lots, built in the 20s. A new house in a hell of a suburban nightmare where I couldn't bike or bus or walk anywhere, starts at $275K.

In the next town over, two bedroom townhouses start at $250K and everything goes up from there. In Boulder proper, condos/townhouses start at $350K and the average home price is $500,000.

We won't get hit too hard as the bubble deflates (it already is) because this area has good public services, schools, roads and is very much a New Urban community, and thus, desirable. The housing estates out to the east of us will become barren deserts, though; they have no services, no easy access to anything, and are a minimum of 15 miles from jobs.

As for cars... when repair costs for a 7 year old used car start at $800 and go up from there, I can see the point of having two new cars - the warranty. It's cheaper to make a slightly higher car payment for a cleaner, more efficient car that isn't likely to break down as often than it is to have unexpected repair expenses.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. She was speaking the truth....you gatta earn your way to the top positions
thats all....whats so wrong with that?
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. She stereotyped an entire Generation as not wanting to work
I turn 26 in a couple weeks, have 2 college degres, and will be making over $30,000 a year for the first time next year. Does that mean that I don't know how to work?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. What? Who said anything about YOU?
Why are you taking that route? All she said was most kids don't want to wait....to make the big monies...

as for yourself...re working...who knows if you are a good worker or not....that is not the question.

Bush has a degree in Business...does he know how to work? and get good results?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. She should say that to Chelsea - Seeing that her apology went to her
and not to the thousands of young people who get their diplomas, have tens of thousand of dollars in debts and earn still in the 30,000 dollars and are supposed to start a family and repay their loans on that.

She should have been speaking about the cost of education in this country rather than about the supposed laziness of young people.
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
52. Exactly
"She should have been speaking about the cost of education in this country rather than about the supposed laziness of young people."

She is a position where she can help lower the cost of education, increase financial aid, help with first time home buyers, put restrictions on credit cards companies so they don't prey upon college students.

I grew up in a middle class family and am a teacher. Maybe a $200 iPod is the one luxary I can afford. It isn't like I will be able to take vacations to Hawaii and Europe each year.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
88. What do you think a beginning teacher makes, or almost
Edited on Tue May-16-06 03:11 PM by juajen
any college graduate? My degreed daughter started out at $8 an hour. It was with a very good company with ladders to climb. One year later, she still does not make appreciably more, even though she is doing beautiful, artistic graphics, and is a very good worker who gets rave reviews. The truth is, the outsourcing of jobs and the influx of illegals has drastically diminished the worth of college graduates. All of it adds up. Unfortunately, the economic environment also is putting a lot of the elderly back in the job market. The retired can work for a lot less, because they have a base retirement income and are usually covered by medicare, etc. My daughter is still living at home because of the horrible wages available.

I like and support Hillary Clinton, but I don't think she is aware of the work atmosphere out there now. It has taken my other two college-degreed daughter eight years to earn over $50,000. This job comes with a new car with maintenance and gas, so, she is pretty happy with this, even though it doesn't go as far as you would think. She is the sole support of two children, and still has a hard time.

Face it folks, the times they are a changing. I started out without a college degree making much more than my youngest daughter, who is smarter and much more skilled than I. This was in the sixties, where even the lower middle class took vacations, and actually lived on one income. I know, I remember those years very well.

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CelticWinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. She was right in what she said
you learn alot from books but learn more from life experience. Welcome to life 101...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If Hillary was right, why did Chelsea take issue with her mom?
Even the Hillary defenders brigade can't defend Hillary this time! This could be evidence of how quickly Hillary can alienate voters when she panders.

Sen. Clinton apologizes to Chelsea for work comment

Monday, May 15, 2006; Posted: 7:55 a.m. EDT (11:55 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- After telling an audience that young people today "think work is a four-letter word," Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she apologized to her daughter.

"I said, 'I'm sorry, I didn't mean to convey the impression that you don't work hard,"' Clinton said Sunday in a commencement address at Long Island University. "I just want to set the bar high, because we are in a competition for the future."

Clinton spoke to more than 2,000 graduates days after she criticized young people at a gathering of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in Washington. There she said young people have a sense of entitlement after growing up in a "culture that has a premium on instant gratification."

The senator said that her daughter, Chelsea, phoned to complain after learning about the comments. The 26-year-old was hired in 2003 by McKinsey & Co. as a consultant, reportedly for a six-figure salary. She received a master's degree from Oxford University after graduating from Stanford University in 2001.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/15/clinton.apologize.ap/index.html
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Let us not miss the underlying point re: Clintons
Chelsea is 26 and earning six-figures? How long and hard did she have to "work" to get that?

Granted, she "worked" to get through school, went to fine and expensive institutions, but how many start out and end up that way after graduation?

If Hillary wants young people to be motivated, they should have both opportunity and the salary that is commensurate with their education and skills!

Hillary was playing the snob there, IMHO, and blatantly overlooking the obvious, painful, and growing inequity in incomes and wealth in this country. That, to me, is a MAJOR issue and she seems to be wearing blinders, oblivious, or dis compassionate about the dilemma.

Wages and salaries are a BIG issue now, and she is not sounding like a Senator or potential Presidential candidate who gives a shit there. Let them eat cake, those lazy kids!
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. Yeah, what you said
I don't consider myself far left. I'm left liberal but I can support someone who voted for the IWR if necessary. I don't want Hillary for a couple of reasons. That is the number one reason. I'm in Hillary's generation and what I see is a younger generation that has to struggle just to get where we were when we graduated. I see a generation that doesn't know what field to go into because entire industries are disappearing. I see kids who go to school to learn one thing and the jobs are gone by the time they finish school. So far, I'm not seeing a leader who is seriously addressing that in Hillary.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
55. You hit the reason this statement concerns me
Edited on Tue May-16-06 08:12 AM by karynnj
It can't be viewed as just pandering, it ignores the reality of the current economy. There have been plenty of Paul Krugman columns that show that the gap between the top and the bottom have rapidly increased starting in the 1990s. To add insult to injury, the Bush era tax cuts have decreased the rate paid on money earned from capital gains, dividends and investments.

I'm also of Hillary's generation. We did have an easier time getting a job that would let us live a middle class or even upper middle class life. I was one of 9 kids, 7 of us are living more affluent lives than the one we grew up with. Our kids will have a very very hard time affording the lifestyle they grew up with. Hillary's comments show no empathy and at least some annoyance with young people facing this hostile economic environment. Those who went to college have huge debts. Their incomes need to pay the debt and to live in the area their job is in.

Contrast Hilary's view with these 1993 Senate comments on the changing economy by Senator Kerry. I think she may well be one of the DC people who doesn't get that the economy has fundamentally changed.


"In many ways, we are witnessing the most rapid change in the workplace in this country since the postwar era began. For a majority of working Americans, the changes are utterly at odds with the expectations they nurtured growing up.

Millions of Americans grew up feeling they had a kind of implied contract with their country, a contract for the American dream. If you applied yourself, got an education, went to work, and worked hard, then you had a reasonable shot at an income, a home, time for family, and a graceful retirement.

Today, those comfortable assumptions have been shattered by the realization that no job is safe, no future assured. And many Americans simply feel betrayed.

To this day I'm not sure that official Washington fully comprehends what has happened to working America in the last 20 years, a period when the incomes of the majority declined in real terms.

In the decade following 1953, the typical male worker, head of his household, aged 40 to 50, saw his real income grow 36 percent. The 40-something workers from 1963 to 1973 saw their incomes grow 25 percent. The 40-something workers from 1973 to 1983 saw their incomes decline, by 14 percent, and reliable estimates indicate that the period of 1983 to 1993 will show a similar decline.

From 1969 to 1989 average weekly earnings in this country declined from $387 to $335. No wonder then, that millions of women entered the work force, not simply because the opportunity opened for the first time. They had no choice. More and more families needed two incomes to support a family, where one had once been enough.

It began to be insufficient to have two incomes in the family. By 1989 the number of people working at more than one job hit a record high. And then even this was not enough to maintain living standards. Family income growth simply slowed down. Between 1979 and 1989 it grew more slowly than at any period since World War II. In 1989 the median family income was only $1,528 greater than it had been 10 years earlier. In prior decades real family income would increase by that same amount every 22 months. When the recession began in 1989, the average family's inflation-adjusted income fell 4.4 percent, a $1,640 drop, or more than the entire gain from the eighties.

Younger people now make less money at the beginning of their careers, and can expect their incomes to grow more slowly than their parents'. Families headed by persons aged 25 to 34 in 1989 had incomes $1,715 less than their counterparts did 10 years earlier, in 1979. Evidence continues to suggest that persons born after 1945 simply will not achieve the same incomes in middle-age that their parents achieved.

Thus, Mr. President, it is a treadmill world for millions of Americans. They work hard, they spend less time with their families, but their incomes don't go up. The more their incomes stagnate, the more they work. The more they work, the more they leave the kids alone, and the more they need child care. The more they need child care, the more they need to work.


Why are we surprised at the statistics on the hours children spend in front of the television; about illiteracy rates; about teenage crime and pregnancy? All the adults are working and too many kids are raising themselves.

Of course, there is another story to be found in the numbers. Not everyone is suffering from a declining income. Those at the top of the income scale are seeing their incomes increase, and as a result income inequality in this Nation is growing dramatically. Overall, the 30 percent of our people at the top of the income scale have secured more and more, while the bottom 70 percent have been losing. The richest 1 percent saw their incomes grow 62 percent during the 1980's, capturing a full 53 percent of the total income growth among all families in the entire economy. This represents a dramatic reversal of what had been a post-war trend toward equality in this country. It also means that the less well-off in our society--the same Americans who lost out in the Reagan tax revolution--are the ones being hurt by changes in the economy.

You might say that we long ago left the world of Ward and June Clever. We have entered the world of Roseanne and Dan, and the yuppies from `L.A. Law' working downtown.

Many, many commentators have explained how the assumptions from that long-ago world will cripple us if we do not have the courage to look at today's economy with a clear eye. "

The above is from Thomas, the Senate record - from Kerry's comments on NAFTA
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
85. Wow, I never read that before
No wonder I'm a Kerry fan. It's like he's speaking directly to my generation.

Thanks Senator.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. If you like that here's the entire speech
Edited on Tue May-16-06 03:16 PM by karynnj
So, you think Kerry is a tad bit more aware of the difficulties, than the Senator from NY.

I love it because it's an incredibly clear, concise, economic/social history and better explains the problem to me than anything else I have ever read. I read it when Tay Tay posted it a long time ago. That he was saying this in 1993 really is awesome - he and whoever on his staff were involved with it deserve a lot of credit. (Funny, that Friedman is going around with his "earth is flat" book saying noone in DC was saying these things. Apparently, he didn't notice the Democratic nominee for President, who beat him be a decade on this issue and spoke about it in 2004)

Here's the whole thing:

The words Kerry, according to Thomas:

Mr. President, not a day goes by now without significant change in our economy.

And not a day goes by when the opponents and the proponents of NAFTA do not seize on the story as evidence for their cause.

To paraphrase a line from Tina Turner, when it comes to the sea change underway in America today, what's NAFTA got to do with it?

The answer, Mr. President, is, much less than we are led to believe.

Opponents claim the treaty will cause our jobs to go south and cheap goods will come flooding back in, sending more jobs back south.

But the fact is, many jobs are going south now, unimpeded and unregulated by the environmental and labor law controls that NAFTA would impose for the first time between our two countries.

And as for those cheap goods, the tariff barriers in place today are mostly Mexican, not American. Their tariffs are 2 1/2 times larger than ours, on average. It's our goods that are prevented from going there, not the other way around. But you would never know that from all the anti-NAFTA rhetoric.

The proponents of NAFTA will tell you something like 200,000 net new jobs will be created in the United States by the year 1996. No new job is to be sneered at, but 200,000 jobs is approximately what the U.S. economy created in one fairly mediocre month, July of this year, in the middle of a so-called jobless recovery.

Let's put this job promise in perspective. Two weeks ago an article in the New York Times estimated that electronic bar code readers alone--the devices that so fascinated George Bush last year--bar code readers alone have eliminated 400,000 jobs in America.

So, what's NAFTA got to do with it, indeed.

It strikes me that in reality, the debate over NAFTA is not a debate about who's right and who's wrong. It's a debate about the future--about placing a bet on the future, on how the Mexicans will act, and how we will act.

The NAFTA opponents believe that the bet is too risky, because the Mexicans will not live up to their agreements. But the truth is NAFTA is not risky because of what the Mexicans will do--it's risky because of what we are failing to do for ourselves right now. It is a risk augmented by our failure to enunciate and aggressively pursue a national policy for the creation and retention of high-skill, high-wage jobs and preparation of our current and future workers to perform well in those jobs.

And in the absence of a clear, unmistakable, and forceful national strategy to create those jobs and move our workers into them, NAFTA might very well be doomed, a scapegoat for the much larger frustration in our country over our failure to deal with the massive changes underway in the economy, changes which are pushing up to 70 percent of our work force down the ladder of opportunity--changes which promise to claim more workers if we do not take action.

In many ways, we are witnessing the most rapid change in the workplace in this country since the postwar era began. For a majority of working Americans, the changes are utterly at odds with the expectations they nurtured growing up.

Millions of Americans grew up feeling they had a kind of implied contract with their country, a contract for the American dream. If you applied yourself, got an education, went to work, and worked hard, then you had a reasonable shot at an income, a home, time for family, and a graceful retirement.

Today, those comfortable assumptions have been shattered by the realization that no job is safe, no future assured. And many Americans simply feel betrayed.

To this day I'm not sure that official Washington fully comprehends what has happened to working America in the last 20 years, a period when the incomes of the majority declined in real terms.

In the decade following 1953, the typical male worker, head of his household, aged 40 to 50, saw his real income grow 36 percent. The 40-something workers from 1963 to 1973 saw their incomes grow 25 percent. The 40-something workers from 1973 to 1983 saw their incomes decline, by 14 percent, and reliable estimates indicate that the period of 1983 to 1993 will show a similar decline.

From 1969 to 1989 average weekly earnings in this country declined from $387 to $335. No wonder then, that millions of women entered the work force, not simply because the opportunity opened for the first time. They had no choice. More and more families needed two incomes to support a family, where one had once been enough.

It began to be insufficient to have two incomes in the family. By 1989 the number of people working at more than one job hit a record high. And then even this was not enough to maintain living standards. Family income growth simply slowed down. Between 1979 and 1989 it grew more slowly than at any period since World War II. In 1989 the median family income was only $1,528 greater than it had been 10 years earlier. In prior decades real family income would increase by that same amount every 22 months. When the recession began in 1989, the average family's inflation-adjusted income fell 4.4 percent, a $1,640 drop, or more than the entire gain from the eighties.

Younger people now make less money at the beginning of their careers, and can expect their incomes to grow more slowly than their parents'. Families headed by persons aged 25 to 34 in 1989 had incomes $1,715 less than their counterparts did 10 years earlier, in 1979. Evidence continues to suggest that persons born after 1945 simply will not achieve the same incomes in middle-age that their parents achieved.

Thus, Mr. President, it is a treadmill world for millions of Americans. They work hard, they spend less time with their families, but their incomes don't go up. The more their incomes stagnate, the more they work. The more they work, the more they leave the kids alone, and the more they need child care. The more they need child care, the more they need to work.

Why are we surprised at the statistics on the hours children spend in front of the television; about illiteracy rates; about teenage crime and pregnancy? All the adults are working and too many kids are raising themselves.

Of course, there is another story to be found in the numbers. Not everyone is suffering from a declining income. Those at the top of the income scale are seeing their incomes increase, and as a result income inequality in this Nation is growing dramatically. Overall, the 30 percent of our people at the top of the income scale have secured more and more, while the bottom 70 percent have been losing. The richest 1 percent saw their incomes grow 62 percent during the 1980's, capturing a full 53 percent of the total income growth among all families in the entire economy. This represents a dramatic reversal of what had been a post-war trend toward equality in this country. It also means that the less well-off in our society--the same Americans who lost out in the Reagan tax revolution--are the ones being hurt by changes in the economy.

You might say that we long ago left the world of Ward and June Clever. We have entered the world of Roseanne and Dan, and the yuppies from `L.A. Law' working downtown.

Many, many commentators have explained how the assumptions from that long-ago world will cripple us if we do not have the courage to look at today's economy with a clear eye.

Back then, we were the only economic superpower. American companies had virtually no competition and, since they produced almost entirely in the United States, their workers felt no particular threat from workers abroad. This was the era when `Made in Japan' meant something was cheap--not good, just cheap.

Throughout the 1950's and 1960's productivity was rising rapidly throughout the American economy, so that people could expect over time to work less, but earn more.

Back then, free trade for America meant more markets for America, not competition. We maintained the Bretton Woods rules, the GATT, and other treaty obligations not only to buttress the free world against communism, and not only out of the goodness of our hearts; we enforced a basic level of stability in the world because a stable world meant open markets for us, and we made the products people most wanted to buy.

Back then, large corporations and large unions set the pace for middle-class prosperity. Remember it was Henry Ford, no fan of unions, who created the mass production line to turn out cars cheaply--cheaply enough so that his own workers could buy them. When he finally capitulated to the United Auto Workers, he gave his workers the largest settlement of the Big Three.

In those days, Fortune 500 companies controlled well over 50 percent of our total economy, and employed three-quarters of our manufacturing work force. If the New Deal built the floor for personal security in America, the corporate economy put up the middle-class safety net, with pension plans and health insurance.

In those days, American families lived on one man's paycheck, from one job that lasted with one company for an entire lifetime.

If you were laid off, you were laid off for the duration, and you were called back when business picked up.

No more.

And two key words summarize the difference: globalization and technology. Each one feeds the other. Each one confronts American employers with a choice: Can I beat the competition by making a stand in America with my own workers, or must I beat the competition by going abroad? Will my workers join the ranks of the 70 percent falling behind, or will they join the ranks of the 30 percent--or fewer--who will get ahead?

The dynamics of this are familiar to anybody who works. Technology, particularly computer technology, makes it possible to move production anywhere in the world. Technology makes it possible for formerly large corporations to make do with drastically fewer people at home. Remember those bar-code readers.

Increasingly freer trade amongst nations means that competition comes from low-wage workers in developing countries, or from high-skilled, highly productive workers in the industrialized countries. The choice is a stark one: either a nation must secure more technology and become more productive or it must underbid all others for labor and other costs. Most countries understand that this is a choice they have to make.

I submit to you, Mr. President, that this is a choice which we are not making, and the consequence is that the choice is being made for us--toward low costs, leading to the unprecedented wave of downsizing underway in our economy.

Two weeks ago an American Management Association survey reported that nearly half of the companies polled had reduced their work forces in the last year. A quarter reported that they will do so again in the coming year, some for the second or third time in 5 years, and experience shows that the number of companies that eventually downsize is twice the number that predict they will.

Workers who are downsized in today's environment are not out for the duration. They are out for good, and their ability to climb back into the economy is utterly dependent on the match between their skills and the needs of the small and midsized companies which now represent the pivot point for American economic success. Central to this division is skills: those that have them win, those that do not have them lose.

Workers with high skills can reap the rewards of the new technology, which is higher productivity. Higher productivity is not only the basis of increased pay, it is the ticket of admission to world markets, hence to growth, hence to new jobs and higher pay.

Recently Princeton economist Alan Krueger showed that workers who used computers on the job earned a 10- to 15-percent higher wage rate than otherwise similar workers. On the basis of this study, Microsoft Corp., the software giant, ran advertisements in Time magazine and elsewhere declaring `we make it easier to get a 15-percent raise.'

On the other hand, there is a growing disadvantage to not being well educated and flexibly skilled. Workers with lower skills find that technology either eliminates their jobs or moves them overseas. It is this disadvantage that lower skilled

workers face in the new global, high-technology economy that explains why they are faring increasingly poorly in terms of wages and incomes. It is these lower-skilled workers who are having the rug pulled out from under them. And it is no wonder they are scared by NAFTA .

Now, I do not come to this issue as some latter-day luddite, ready to smash bar code scanners in the supermarket and wall off our borders from foreign imports.

I believe that the change we are witnessing--whether we like it or not--is inevitable. What is not inevitable is our passivity, and our inability to make change work for, instead of against, American workers.

In the past few months I have visited any number of companies in my home State of Massachusetts that have made technology work for them and their workers. Through aggressive R&D, advanced manufacturing technology, and continuous worker training and involvement, they have maintained and often increased manufacturing jobs in Massachusetts, a State where manufacturing is supposedly dead and buried. These include the Bose Corp., a major player in the Japanese hi-fi and automotive parts market, thanks to its constant innovation; and Modicon Corp., which brought jobs back from Asia when it radically upgraded technology and workplace organization. In my State, you simply cannot create new manufacturing jobs with a low-skill, low-wage strategy. You must go the high-technology, high-skill route, and you must export.

The question is, Are we going to learn from the Boses and the Modicons?

Other nations, notably Japan and Germany, have structured their entire economies around the goal of employing their citizens in well-paying jobs. This is the goal toward which government, industry, and individuals work together.

This happened in part because they were poor in natural resources and had small home markets. And so in order to become industrialized nations they were forced to export. At an early stage, therefore, international competition became their obsession. And economic considerations often dominated foreign and security policy. They were not afraid--in part as a result of cultural differences--of an economic model where big business and big government worked together to promote long-term job creation.

But in this country, Mr. President, we are still lacking a strategy that sends out an unmistakable signal to every American that the highest priority of the American Government and American industry is ensuring that Americans have the ability to get good

jobs--maybe not one job for their entire lives, but one or a series of jobs that will support their families for the entirety of their careers.

This strategy needs to address the insecurity that people feel for their economic future and in order to do so it must recognize the centrality of education and training--two priorities on which President Clinton rightly focused during the campaign.

In 1949, we spent 9 percent of our Federal budget on education. We now spend less than 3 percent. An estimated 83 million Americans have inadequate reading skills and the United States is the only major industrialized nation in the world with no formal system or structure to facilitate the school-to-work transition. Federal support for vocational education has declined approximately 30 percent in real dollars over the last decade. Meanwhile, such competitors as Germany spend dramatically more on training the best educated and now the highest-paid workers in the world. American students attend school for 180 days per year while Japanese children go to school for 243 days and German children for 240 days. This means that our children attend school for 25 percent less time each year than their future competitors.

This is unacceptable. There is no question that our priorities have become skewed. The space station will cost us $2 billion this year, while the Federal Government will spend only $630 million on primary and secondary education. Over 80 percent of prison inmates are dropouts, and they each cost us between $15,000 and $30,000 per year to incarcerate. This situation is totally unacceptable.

We should be prepared to use any mechanism necessary to find more money to invest in our one true asset--our people. We can find this money in pork-barrel projects; in entitlement programs; we can reexamine the issue of the gas tax--surely Americans would be willing to pay a few more pennies a gallon to educate our children for the global competition they will face. There are many other places we can look for the resources--if we are serious and committed to the objective.

We need to begin by quickly funneling more money into our education budget. I strongly support Senator Jefford's suggestion that we add money to education spending in increments of 1 percent of the Federal budget until it accounts for 10 percent in the year 2004. I also agree with Senator Simon and Senator Dodd that we must abandon property tax supported education which leads to inequities among school systems.

Next, we need to quickly put in place the School-to-Work Program on which the President and Senator Kennedy have been

working. And we must not be shy about fully funding these, either. This is no place to be penny wise and pound foolish.

We must quickly enact the Worker Adjustment Program that Secretary Reich has been drafting--and I believe that we should attach it to the NAFTA as part of the implementing legislation to ensure that full help is available for all workers who need it. In addition to streamlining our disparate adjustment programs, this plan would make unemployment insurance flexible so that workers could use it as income support while they retrain--a need that did not exist when the UI system was designed to buttress workers who were temporarily laid off. It will also put the Federal Government in the business of smoothing out the labor market's information flows--so that displaced workers can find out where jobs are, what kinds of skills they require, and how they can obtain them.

And I believe, Mr. President, that we should go beyond the administration's current proposals and create an Incumbent Worker Training Program. During the campaign, President Clinton discussed encouraging companies to train their workers and I feel that we must return to that concept. We cannot wait to do this until our companies lose the global competition and our workers are downsized out of their jobs. We must help them retain the jobs they have by ensuring that they are the most technically adept in the world.

But it is not enough, Mr. President, to say `if we train them, the jobs will come.' Because the jobs may not come. A recent 2-year study of the American system of capital investment by researchers at the Harvard Business School raises the question of whether U.S. companies are sufficiently focused on the long-term to be competitive and to create high-wage jobs.

The report points out that leading American firms in many industries are outinvested by their Japanese counterparts; that the R&D portfolios of American firms include a smaller share of long-term projects than those of European and Japanese firms and that American firms invest at a lower rate than both Japanese and German firms in intangible assets--such as human resource development. The report relays the fact that American CEO's believe that their firms have shorter investment horizons than their international competitors. As a result, they sometimes confuse cutting back and downsizing with a solution--restructuring may give a short-term lift to a company's stock but unless the savings are invested in productive assets, it will not help the company compete better with its German rivals over the long run.

This would explain why the Bose Co., which I mentioned a few moments ago, feels the need to remain proudly privately held in order to continue investing in R&D and its workers without

pressure from Wall Street? Surely something needs to be changed if our capital system forces companies to take a short-term view when their international competitors are resolutely focused on the long-term.

In order to encourage U.S. companies to invest in their long-term growth, we must make permanent the R&D tax credit; we must put in place a full capital gains tax cut for long-term investments; we must make available support for the Department of Commerce's Advanced Technology Program as well as its manufacturing extension programs; and we must take the lead in communicating that both the private sector and the public sector should make people the center of any industrial policy.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mexicans have learned the lesson from Germany and Japan that a national strategy focused on creating high-wage jobs is a necessity in the new global economy. An influential Business Week article pointed out months ago that Mexico has no intention of settling for millions of low-wage jobs supporting high-wage jobs in the United States.

President Carlos Salinas' dream is the creation of millions of high-wage jobs in Mexico. As I mentioned earlier, the real thing for us to be wary of, if NAFTA passes, is not that Mexico will welch on the deal, and not even that ti will comply with a vengeance. What must concern us is that we will fall short.

After all, it is President Salinas who declared 6 years ago that he would slay hyperinflation, drastically reduce debt, and liberate job creation in Mexico. That's exactly what he did.

It is our political system which declared that it would eradicate the Federal deficit, and create millions of well-paid jobs to replace those that went abroad in one long `morning for America.' Need I say more?

So, Mr. President, when it comes to trade with Mexico, we have met the enemy, and it is us.

Millions of Americans understand this in their bones. They understand our stake in following the path of high-skill, high-wage jobs, and in electing Bill Clinton last year they expressed their belief that Government must play a role.

But when it comes to NAFTA , Mr. President, a treaty that even proponents concede will create some short-term job loss, the debate has become a game of `who do you trust?'

And the people are not in a trusting mood.

We have yet to see the implementing legislation or to have an inkling of how much money will be found to pay for cleaning up the border or providing training for workers. We have yet to see if we will invest in the American worker before we increase his vulnerability.

With so much of the NAFTA package left to be seen, to, at this time, call the package a resounding success or a resounding failure seems somewhat premature.

We should use NAFTA as the wake-up call to attend to the real agenda of this Nation. We should do what President Clinton called on us to do in his campaign, put people first.

My urgent plea to the President, and to the leaders of my own party is that we go back to the people, back to the same dialog from last year's campaign about putting people first, and that we resolve to enact a clear and effective strategy for ensuring each American the means to find a job paying a livable wage throughout his or her lifetime, no matter how the international economy may buffet us.

I would like to thank the distinguished Senator from North Carolina for permitting me to make this lengthy statement.

I yield the floor.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
110. What a stark difference between Kerry and Hillary on this topic
Kerry is sensitive and aware of the problems that young people have as they struggle under conditions that their parents never had to face, while Hillary is condescending and snotty in her speech.

Kerry trumps Hillary any day!

Thanks for posting Kerry's speech, karynnj!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
106. Hillary was just kissing the ass of the corporatists who want...
the working person to settle for less and less.
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feistydem Donating Member (994 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
69. Hillary always seems to be trying to have it both ways.
I simply don't find her to have integrity, but I'd hold my nose and vote for her if she were the Dem nominee.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #69
111. Well, let's make sure she is not the Dem nominee
by working out butts off for Anybody But Hillary.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. Might be better to work to defeat McCain!! n/t
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
101. Chelsea took issue with her mom because...
...Chelsea is a spoiled brat.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. If Hillary were to say tomorrow that having sex in zero gravity was great
many people here would be extolling her wisdom and tremendous insight, while those of us that are not willing to anoint her as our next Messiah will sit and wonder if it was possible to have sex in zero gravity without the use of straps to keep one from floating away and running into a bulkhead.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. aah shaaaaadup. I've seen enough of your bullshit posts about her to
know that you wouldn't like what Hillary Clinton said if she walked right up to you and told you that you just won a million bucks.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. If Hillary were to walk up to me and tell me I won a million bucks
I would try to figure out what her angle was. That's how much I don't trust her.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. What if she offered you sex in a zero gravity environment?
I hear that that's pretty cool, altho it nearly got Neil and Buzz fired.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
94. If she was "right"....
....why did she apologize?
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feistydem Donating Member (994 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hillary became a NY senator because of her marriage... not exactly working
one's way up the political ladder.

I just love it when rich & connected people preach to the rest of us about hard work.
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Remember Cheney's comment ?
The one about how "...people should begin saving money starting from their very first job"?
Be nice if that was an option for most folks...
:eyes:
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. And Hillary is right!
Edited on Tue May-16-06 12:08 AM by Rabrrrrrr
There is a sense of "entitlement" amongst many of the young - usually the ones who grew up with indulgent Boomer parents who took care of every problem for their children and constantly told them they are the most precious, valuable, important human being in the world ("Someone picked on you at school? I'm calling the principal for you!" or "You got yelled at by your boss? I'm calling him for you!" or "Your college professor gave you a fail on your last test because you didn't go to class? I'm calling the Dean for you - I'm not paying that much money for you to go to school and have some idiotic professor decide your grades!"

And blah blah blah.

Used to be that people worked their way up, started off in a small house and slowly grew into a large one, started with lower quality furniture and slowly bought better stuff...

Now, it's buy the big ass house right away, fill it with expensive furniture you bought on the credit card, put two brand new cars in the driveway, and then complain that you've been at the company for almost a year and you still aren't a vice president and you have bills to pay and lifestyle to maintain... and if that doesn't work, have your mom call your boss, too.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Since I don't belong to that socio-economic class
I see Hillary complaining about the elites but using a broadbrush to taint an entire generation, most of which have to work for a living while going to school.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
67. I disagree
Edited on Tue May-16-06 10:51 AM by karynnj
I live in one of the upper middle class communities and two of my children have attended a private school with children in the upper class. In addition to being given a lot, a lot is asked of these kids. The high school program they completed required far more work than I ever thought of doing - though I was a very diligent top student in my high school. All of the students, as a school requirement, worked on some community service activities. They took lessons to improve whatever extra curricular skills they had and used these skills when they participated in high school.

They were told they were special, as you say, but that also came with a price. They were not stupid and the expectations were unreasonably high. In my lower middle class high school in the 60s, some kids felt good because they excelled in choir. In my kids' environment, the same kid would likely have had voice lessons starting in maybe middle school. They then would have been better than my peers, but rather than taking pride in being chosen for solos at school, many compared themselves to professional singers and found themselves wanting. Likewise, I knew kids taking gymnastic lessons or figure skating lessons as many as 3 or 4 times a week to get good enough for competitions.

I've listened to one of my kids, in eighth grade, cry because she was convinced that she was the only one in her class with no definite idea of exactly what she wanted to be when she grew up. Many knew, down to the school they intended to go to, the profession they would enter and even in some cases where they wanted to work. In 8th grade, all I knew was I wanted a ticket to see the Beatles when they appeared near where I lived. In reality, the vast majority of these kids went through at least 4 or 5 equally specific ideas of their future life by the time they applied for college.

This hot house environment seems to me to be far more stressful than the optimistic, "you can go to college and find what you want to be" attitude I was exposed to as a kid.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #67
87. Well said, Karynnj
I have two little ones, and goshdarnit, they're being told that they are special and a unique gift to the world. What is wrong with this society when it's "good" to tell a kid they're nothing until they've performed to someone's liking? It just amazes me that I'm sitting here at Democraticunderground, and I'm hearing the GOP line. Don't forget ALL of their articles OPPOSED to raising kids' self esteem!! And it sounds like many here have accepted that as "wisdom".

The truth of the matter is that kids have always felt themselves to be immortal and smarter than everyone else. Then the real world hits them, and they're dropped down a peg or two, and by their 30s they realize -- uh oh, I don't know ANYTHING!! That's how it's always been, and I am VERY confident in Gen X and Gen Y to make many contributions to society.

Here is a dramatic example of how the Gen X officers in Iraq have innovated and questioned strategy openly, averting disasters. I'm sure many think they're snotty kids who question authority; but their independent thinking is invaluable to our armed forces:

During the early weeks of the Iraq war, the television set in my office was tuned all day to CNN, with the sound muted. On the morning of April 3rd, as the Army and the Marines were closing in on Baghdad, I happened to look up at what appeared to be a disaster in the making. A small unit of American soldiers was walking along a street in Najaf when hundreds of Iraqis poured out of the buildings on either side. Fists waving, throats taut, they pressed in on the Americans, who glanced at one another in terror. I reached for the remote and turned up the sound. The Iraqis were shrieking, frantic with rage. From the way the lens was lurching, the cameraman seemed as frightened as the soldiers. This is it, I thought. A shot will come from somewhere, the Americans will open fire, and the world will witness the My Lai massacre of the Iraq war. At that moment, an American officer stepped through the crowd holding his rifle high over his head with the barrel pointed to the ground. Against the backdrop of the seething crowd, it was a striking gesture—almost Biblical. “Take a knee,” the officer said, impassive behind surfer sunglasses. The soldiers looked at him as if he were crazy. Then, one after another, swaying in their bulky body armor and gear, they knelt before the boiling crowd and pointed their guns at the ground. The Iraqis fell silent, and their anger subsided. The officer ordered his men to withdraw.


http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050117fa_fact

Here's two more paragraphs about the generation:

There may be a generational explanation. While most high-ranking officers are baby boomers, most lieutenants and captains are of Generation X, born in the mid-sixties or after. Gen X officers, often the product of single-parent homes or homes in which both parents worked, are markedly more self-reliant and confident of their abilities than their baby-boomer superiors, according to Army surveys of both groups. Baby boomers moved up the ranks during the comfortable clarity of the Cold War, but the Gen Xers came of age during messy peacekeeping missions in Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, and Haiti. Gen Xers are notoriously unimpressed by rank, as Donald Rumsfeld discovered in December, when enlisted soldiers questioned him sharply about the lack of armor on their vehicles. This turns out to be a positive development for the Army, because the exigencies of the Iraq war are forcing the decision-making downward; tank captains tell of being handed authority, mid-battle, for tasks that used to be reserved for colonels, such as directing helicopter close-air support.

The younger officers have another advantage over their superiors: they grew up with the Internet, and have created for themselves, in their spare time, a means of sharing with one another, online, information that the Army does not control. The “slackers” in the junior-officer corps are turning out to be just what the Army needs in the chaos of Iraq. Instead of looking up to the Army for instructions, they are teaching themselves how to fight the war. The Army, to its credit, stays out of their way.


Don't even get me on how Gen X was put down. And we who graduated from college, promised riches by the Reagan '80s, were bitterly disappointed when the recession hit in the early '90s. So now it's Gen Y's turn to be battered, I guess, but seeing that they're the grunts in the fields of battle in Iraq and Afghanistan, I just find Hillary's remarks inappropriate.

But, to be fair, I see now that the link was from the NY Post. Perhaps it would be better if we could find a transcript of the entire speech. Maybe she said nice things before the above statement. Anyone have it?




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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
86. I'm a 19 year old college student from what I would call a middle class
or upper-middle class household. Most of my friends come from similar backgrounds, with some not as well off as me, and others even better off than I am.

I know no one whose parents treated them the way you described, nor do I know any of my friends, all of us either collage grads or about to graduate next year, who have the expectations you describe. Even one girl who I would describe as just plain rich, who is getting an MBA and planning to marry someone going to law school, is now looking at buying a house after graduation worth $20,000. All that money she has earned herself since high school.

Speaking personally, I would say that my parents have coddled me more than my friends' parents coddled them, and I wish I could personally aspire to the dreams you describe. My parents treat me great, but I'm not counting on them to fund me 'till I'm 30.

IMHO, you don't know what you're talking about, and that's coming from someone who usually enjoys your posts.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. While Hillary is correct in saying that you must work to get to the top
I think what must people take issue with is her characterization of Gen-Yers as lazy.

"A lot of kids don't know what work is. They think work is a four-letter word."

"Kids, for whatever reason, think they're entitled to go right to the top with $50,000 or $75,000 jobs when they have not done anything to earn their way up."

That kind of characterization is at best dishonest and a sure-fire way to kill off her base of potential volunteers...

Look Hill, I don't expect to be making $100K/a, but I did expect to be a) making more than I was before I started college (I'm making 40% less!) b) be working in my field and c) not be handed $50K in debt.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Like Hillary got the job on the Rose Law firm solely on merit
and not on her husband's political connections. Yeah, right!
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
100. Actually, she did.
When she went to work for Rose (1976), she had a better legal background than he did -- she had post graduate work in women's and children's law, a staff position with the Children's Defense Fund, and some really impressive post graduate work. Bill was the adjunct (read part-time) law professor, loser in a House of Reps race, and running for Attorney General (in which he was considered a long shot). He was elected in November, 1976, well after she was hired by Rose. They hired her on her own merits, not on Bill's back.

Read wikipedia. The dates are pretty easy to tease out.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. I take GREAT issue with that
I've had to work my ass off in high school to get to college. Now I work my ass off in college (and at work) to get to grad school. Then I'll work my ass off some more. And after that? I'll be a teacher.

Hoo boy, I'll be rolling in the dough. Practically no effort on my part!! :eyes:
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
53. word
LOVE your signature

...and I am getting my PhD to be an indebted teacher, too.



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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. That's attacking young people? Are you serious?? LMFAO!!!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
27. I bet that Chelsea had a TV in her room.....and some of those electronic
Gadgets that Hillary was complaining kids have.

I didn't quite "get" her rant. In particular, her hard mannerism when she said it.

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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Sen Clinton is a DINO.
She is trying hard to appeal to the Moderate Rethugs. The Left don't like her political stance. Is that devisive? I don't feel that it is. The Dem Party is not monolithic. I feel that the Dems veered to the right with Pres. Clinton and the power block of the party has disdain for the Left Wing of their own party and other Leftists.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
33. Here is one of the fundamental problems
Edited on Tue May-16-06 06:25 AM by joeprogressive
Kids coming out of college do expect to make that kind of money (50-75K) because many are living above their means compared to a generation ago. Many of our brightest our passing up rewarding jobs such as teaching or working for a non-profit because they want the big dollars now. You can be a pharmaceutical rep or real estate agent and make 50-100 k within the first year and neither one of these jobs requires a college education. I'm not saying it is right; I just think that is what is happening.

I ran into this car salesman the other day at a dealership. I recognized him and said, hey didn't you used to work for Congressman XXXXXX. He said, yeah I needed a job that paid well. He has a college education with a good resume and he took that job. I should add that he wasn't a low level aide, he had an important position.

I really don't trust this generation or mine for that matter to follow their dreams instead of their pocketbooks when it comes to picking a career.
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. There's good reason for that
Check their student loans. Check the cost of an apartment. Take a look at what it's going to cost them to buy a house when they do start a family. When I got out of school you could make enough money to get by doing almost anything and you had little or no debt until you got out into the "real world". It's a really different situation today.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Agree and disagree
The lifestyle choices are definitely in play. When I used to visit my older sisters in college I remembered that most were living in crappy dorms or apartments and driving crappy cars. Now that I am doing graduate work I am back on campus and I can tell you the up-scale apartments are a big thing. Many kids are driving either new cars or 40K SUV's. Why would you need an SUV in college? Every college kid today has a credit, not debit card.

State tuition in my state is still relatively cheap. These kids with student loan debt compound their own financial woes by heaping on "lifestyle debt".
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. I just don't know many like that
I do know that you can't get a cheap apartment anywhere around here. There is no such thing. Apartments in scary neighborhoods are over a thousand a month. There is no way to just be poor for a while. Cars are another problem. When I was young, you had a junker, fixed it yourself, all good. Now, the expense of keeping a junker going and getting it to pass inspection make it very hard except for the truly mechanically gifted and well equipped to do. I don't think hardly anyone needs an SUV, but life is just different than it was and I'm seeing a lot of young people who are truly flummoxed about what field to go into that'll allow them to plan and raise a family. I wouldn't want to be young now. I think it's about a million times harder than it used to be.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. As fae as cars go, I totally disagree
Used cars are better and more reliable than ever today. You can buy a used Toyota Corolla ('99-'02) for 5-7K that will run for years without any problems and give you better than 30 mpg. I do agree that many of the staples in life have become more expensive relative to salaries. However, there are alternatives. 30 years ago there were only a few luxury car choices and people with money drove them. Now it is common to see a 25 year old kid in a Lexus making 50K. We have moved the bar as far as living within our means.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. You are right about it being much harder to be young today.
Edited on Tue May-16-06 07:06 AM by joeprogressive
Societal norms have changed so much that the expectation to succedd is much greater. But success has been falsely tied to what you drive more than what you have accomplished. I would say a teacher that excels in his/her craft is much more successful than say a saleman that hit their quota for the 5th straight year and is making 4 times what that teacher makes.

Think back to all the times you ask kids what they want to be when they groe up. Have you ever heard one say "I want to be a salesman"; never. Sorry, not trying to offend salepeople, they do serve an important function at times. I am saying that in many cases it is a good paying job of convenience and very few people follow their true calling in life.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
105. I must concur.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. what college do YOU go to?
cause believe me, at Ohio State that is NOT the case. Yeah, a couple people have a nice car (generally people whose parents are loaded), but in general, you see old sentras, lincolns, low-end saturns, etc. Not pickups held together with duct tape, no, but not "40K SUVs." You know why we have credit cards? So we can pay the rent. Because most of our money goes to pay for tuition (which here has risen 50% in the past 4-5 years).

And a quick look at student housing on or off campus will show that there aren't even up scale apartments AROUND campus, let alone any that students can afford. Maybe with grad students it's different, but undergrads are living in crappy dorms and crappy apartments.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #45
59. Texas A&M.... much cheaper than Ohio State I'm sure
But here is the point and it applies more to after college. If you can't afford it don't buy it. Expectations of what middle class is, have risen tremendously in the last generation. When I go back to the house I lived in when I was born I am amazed that my parents say we were middle class. It would be considered low class by today's standards.

A kid driving a 5 year old car with 100K miles thinks he is driving a junker. People need to read The millionaire next door. My wife and I bought a 21K house out of college and lived there for 10 years. It was in a safe neighborhood. I lived next door to the "Millionaire Next Door" Combined salary of 80K. Neither one with Bachelor's Degree but always drove cars till they died, lived in 40K house for 14 years, and put one entire salary in mutual funds and lived off other salary. They did this all through the nineties during Clinton economy, weathered the Bush economy and are sitting on about 600K liquid. Oh, by the way, they are in their early forties.

I grant you areas of Texas have much cheaper housing markets but that is also a choice you make. I will also grant you that the middle class is being squeezed but I look at these kids that are griping today and many either did not vote or voted against their best interest by voting for Bush. Just like nobody driving anything that gets less than 20 mpg should have a right to gripe about gas prices. We are in the exact situation now that we have created for ourselves.

America is a greedy and gluttonous society period.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Also, take a look at the lifestyle choices made after college.
These kids with student loan debt; what are they driving? Where do they live? One of the scariest statistic is the one that is the ratio PITI to take home income. It used to be about 18% just 6 years ago and now is up to 22%. Why do you think foreclosures are at record levels?

The college kids are just a microcosm of how Americans at large have become the get it now no matter what the cost generation.
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. We're seeing life from very different perspectives
I don't see an option for a simple middle class life. I think that foreclosures are at record levels because housing prices are out of control and so are rentals in too many areas, leaving few options for people. If you're a first time home buyer where I live, count on a $3,000 a month mortgage, and that's just for a regular house in a so-so neighborhood. All the young people who can are fleeing the area, but the ones who are tied to it for one reason or another are pretty much screwed. Saving for a house while renting is hard when apartments start at a thousand and if you need to house a couple of kids you'll be up in the 2G range pretty fast. That alone is going to put most people in the hole before they even start out.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. exactly
the middle class has almost died. Graduates are often forced to choose between going into debt or living in the ghetto.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
61. Fortunately for me I have chosen to live below my means
When the excesses of Americans crash the housing market, I will be upgrading big time. I am waiting for about a 30%-40% drop which is being predicted my many economists.

If Bill Maher and Larry David can drive a hybrid why does the checker at Wal-Mart choose to drive a Tahoe?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Tell me where you saw that. You cant live on a Walmart salary.
Please, except if this is a kid from a rich family earning pocket money, this is not true.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. exactly but that doesn't keep you from buying a car you can't afford
or getting a credit card. Many of the problems we are seeing stem from the ease of borrowing.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. And yes I do know because I work in a clinic that predominantly
takes care of the medically indigent. I have seen the applications that report income and all assets owned. It is very common.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
90. All interesting points, but that is a societal problem, NOT generational
Parents do still play a role in their kids' lives at that age. I plan on teaching my kids good financial planning and common sense -- live within your means, etc. But if the society (and therefore the adults) thinks that a big car is more important than financial health, then the youngest are going to pick up on that and emulate it. That is NOT what Hillary was saying -- she was saying these kids are lazy and expect money for nothing, and it was about EVERY kid in that generation. I think that was wrong.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
36. I cannot believe that so many people here are following Hillary's
Edited on Tue May-16-06 06:40 AM by Mass
pandering.

How many kids do you know who think they are entitled to these salaries? She is speaking about kids in her world (rich kids who had nothing to do to find a job except ask Daddy to call a friend - You know: the same kind of jobs W got from his daddy's friends).

Most kids dont think like that. As you said, they work hard and pay a lot of money (meaning they are deeply in dept when they start working) to get a diploma and are hoping to find a job that will allow them to repay these loans. Then, for most of them, they will spend the next 20 years repaying these loans).

So, if Hillary could forget the little world she lives in and look at the real world, may be she could become a better senator.
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HarveyBrooks Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Well I work
at a mid-west university and I see it every single day. We have student workers and none of them think they should have to do anything.
Their attitude seems to be that they think manual labor is beneath them.
As recently as 5-10 years ago it wasnt like this. Now every year just gets worse and worse.
And alot of them DO have a sense of entitlement when they graduate.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
54. They'll learn about "life", don't worry.
I was pretty entitlement oriented myself in 1990 when I graduated from college. Then the Persian Gulf War and a recession hit in '91, and I had to do temp jobs like making copies all day long or answering the phone for a small loan office. I was called a "primadonna" by the lady I worked for because, yes, I thought the work was beneath me. But, you know, I had high expectations and the economy dashed them for me. I lived with those circumstances for quite a few years until '95 when I moved to a better city and got the job and salary I wanted (praise be the Clinton years, BTW). So, maybe that's why these remarks by Hillary irk me so much. She really sounds like that bitch I worked with who humiliated me in 2 hour long evaluations where she had written down EVERY TIME I made a mistake or expressed anything less than a positive attitude. So, yeah, kids will have to learn about the real world, but some snotty senator rubbing their faces in it will NOT make them learn those lessons any earlier. Good for Chelsea on calling her mother on it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. And I hope (and pray) that Hillary chooses to announce that she
wishes to REMAIN a Senator. Even those of you who love her have to realize that she's a lightening rod for all the fundy religious right. She can't win and WE ALL know that ... how about someone get to Hillary (You can't win!) so we can form up a winning team?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
48. Maybe she could become a better senator? Pretty hard to do,
considering the great job she's already done in NY. Her track record proves it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
108. This thread makes me literally sick to my stomach
Either they'll swallow anything the woman says or they make so goddamned much money that they don't know that working your way "up" to $50,000 isn't much of an "up" to get to these days. Anybody starting out at less than $35,000 a year is going to struggle and rightfully complain.


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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
47. Sounds like typical GOP judgmentalism
You know -- when someone has a low salary or is in circumstances that are not ideal, the GOP response is always -- well, that's YOUR fault. YOU didn't work hard enough. A far left response would be it's NEVER their fault, it's the system's fault, which I equally disagree with.

How about reality? SOME young people work super hard but don't get the same breaks as young people from more privileged backgrounds who may not work hard at all. OTHER young people are lazy or unmotivated, and end up stuck early on in their careers in dead end jobs, and don't work hard thereby guaranteeing they won't be promoted. Young people of this generation are no different than any generation before them in one crucial respect. They're impatient. They want the world and they want it . . . now!!!!!! It's really sad when such words can come from a baby boomer who was also impatient in her day to advance society. Where is the young Hillary? What makes her tick? I can't BELIEVE this is what she believes.

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. GOP judgmentalism is similar to what happens to her here on this board
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. Look, I'm with you on undeserved Dem bashing on DU
It's wrong and I don't like it. But these remarks are just so condescending and annoying. Imagine if John McCain said these words. You'd be up in arms, too. I'm not here to bash Hillary, but to bash these terrible words to cater to judgmental Republicans who will never vote for her anyway. I don't recall being so infuriated by remarks by a Dem, except maybe Lieberman. I suppose this is another "Sister Soljah" moment; it worked in '92, but I think the times are different now, and it won't work now.

Note to young people: get more of your friends to vote, so Dem leaders won't feel they can bash you.

Hmmm . . . how many politicians bash the elderly -- that older generation have such a sense of entitlement expecting the GOVERNMENT to help pay for their medical care. Yeah, it would never happen, but I guess young people are fair game.


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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. I wouldn't be up in arms no matter who said those words. It's only because
Hillary said them that it gets so much negative attention on this forum.

If Gore, Clark, Feingold, or Kerry said these same exact words, half this place would be sticking up for it and creaming their jeans over how wonderful it was....and the post would have 32 votes for greatest page by now. LOL!
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Look, I like Kerry a lot, but if he said these words I would have
sat on the sidelines, and not defended him. There are a few things he has done in the last couple of years that I STRONGLY disagreed with him on, and he was burned alive on this site and other big liberal websites perhaps deservingly so. However the norm is that he does things RIGHT, and he's STILL skewered by many. That's his lot right now. Hillary, OTOH, has voted and said things that a huge percentage of the Dem base (not just blogs) disagree with. THAT is why she gets pummelled.

Why doesn't she go after the people in power who are wrecking America instead of young people? Young people are BTW the ones going into Iraq and Afghanistan, without proper equipment or a coherent policy from the government, and just making us proud by all of their hard work and strength of character against impossible odds. And, you know, they're getting BIG bonuses to re-enlist. And they damn well deserve it.

Her remarks are reprehensible in their broad stroke, and her daughter was right to tell her so.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #57
70. I would criticize any politician who said this because it is unfair
I think it's not just the young people that sould be offended by this. This is a very cavalier statement that may annoy many people who did exactly what society advised them to do and it failed.

As to Kerry, he saw, even in 1993 when he made the following comments, the fact that the economic situation was harder for young people than when he grew up. The income gap that he spoke of in 1993 was made far worse during the 1990s as well as now. There is no way the man who expressed this so clearly in 1993, would make the prepared comment that Hillary did. (Edwards, if you read his 2 Americas speech likely wouldn't either)

Kerry, from Thomas (the Senate Record - Oct 6, 1993):
In many ways, we are witnessing the most rapid change in the workplace in this country since the postwar era began. For a majority of working Americans, the changes are utterly at odds with the expectations they nurtured growing up.

Millions of Americans grew up feeling they had a kind of implied contract with their country, a contract for the American dream. If you applied yourself, got an education, went to work, and worked hard, then you had a reasonable shot at an income, a home, time for family, and a graceful retirement.

Today, those comfortable assumptions have been shattered by the realization that no job is safe, no future assured. And many Americans simply feel betrayed.


To this day I'm not sure that official Washington fully comprehends what has happened to working America in the last 20 years, a period when the incomes of the majority declined in real terms.

In the decade following 1953, the typical male worker, head of his household, aged 40 to 50, saw his real income grow 36 percent. The 40-something workers from 1963 to 1973 saw their incomes grow 25 percent. The 40-something workers from 1973 to 1983 saw their incomes decline, by 14 percent, and reliable estimates indicate that the period of 1983 to 1993 will show a similar decline.

From 1969 to 1989 average weekly earnings in this country declined from $387 to $335. No wonder then, that millions of women entered the work force, not simply because the opportunity opened for the first time. They had no choice. More and more families needed two incomes to support a family, where one had once been enough.

It began to be insufficient to have two incomes in the family. By 1989 the number of people working at more than one job hit a record high. And then even this was not enough to maintain living standards. Family income growth simply slowed down. Between 1979 and 1989 it grew more slowly than at any period since World War II. In 1989 the median family income was only $1,528 greater than it had been 10 years earlier. In prior decades real family income would increase by that same amount every 22 months. When the recession began in 1989, the average family's inflation-adjusted income fell 4.4 percent, a $1,640 drop, or more than the entire gain from the eighties.

Younger people now make less money at the beginning of their careers, and can expect their incomes to grow more slowly than their parents'. Families headed by persons aged 25 to 34 in 1989 had incomes $1,715 less than their counterparts did 10 years earlier, in 1979. Evidence continues to suggest that persons born after 1945 simply will not achieve the same incomes in middle-age that their parents achieved.

Thus, Mr. President, it is a treadmill world for millions of Americans. They work hard, they spend less time with their families, but their incomes don't go up. The more their incomes stagnate, the more they work. The more they work, the more they leave the kids alone, and the more they need child care. The more they need child care, the more they need to work.

Why are we surprised at the statistics on the hours children spend in front of the television; about illiteracy rates; about teenage crime and pregnancy? All the adults are working and too many kids are raising themselves.

Of course, there is another story to be found in the numbers. Not everyone is suffering from a declining income. Those at the top of the income scale are seeing their incomes increase, and as a result income inequality in this Nation is growing dramatically. Overall, the 30 percent of our people at the top of the income scale have secured more and more, while the bottom 70 percent have been losing. The richest 1 percent saw their incomes grow 62 percent during the 1980's, capturing a full 53 percent of the total income growth among all families in the entire economy. This represents a dramatic reversal of what had been a post-war trend toward equality in this country. It also means that the less well-off in our society--the same Americans who lost out in the Reagan tax revolution--are the ones being hurt by changes in the economy.

You might say that we long ago left the world of Ward and June Clever. We have entered the world of Roseanne and Dan, and the yuppies from `L.A. Law' working downtown.

Many, many commentators have explained how the assumptions from that long-ago world will cripple us if we do not have the courage to look at today's economy with a clear eye. "

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
98. Wrong
Unlike the Hillary-Kerry-Warner-Biden, fill-in-the-DLS puppet blanks sycophants, most of us with a brain ARE perfectly capable of criticising those we support when they say stupid things. I'm a big Dean supporter but I think his stance on gay marriage is just plain wrong and I've stated that. Talk about painting with a broad brush stroke! No wonder you defend Hillary -- the world is a much easier place to take when we can paint everything with right/wrong, black/white brush strokes. Saves you from having to think too much. :eyes:
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #57
117. Amen!! Thanks for my laugh of the night!! You are sooo right! LOL
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
49. I saw those clips too and I don't know why Hillary was saying those words
What was the topic of her speech? Was it the youth of today or did she get off on a tangent.

I don't see the need to put down young people and say they think work is a four letter word. She lost me.

Young people today want to earn more because it takes a hellava lot more to live today. I got screwed by my employer and I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone else.

Reading the responses here, I have to ask why is there so much hatred and jealousy in America? Is this what the Emperor and the Fristians have done to us?

America is scary. I don't recognize it anymore.

If we don't get together we aren't winning nothing in November. Attacking a large segment of voters (for no good reason) isn't a winner either.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
66. Profiile in pandering. (n/t)
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
71. Rather sad people are agreeing with her.
What's next, black people are lazy and shiftless?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. It is pretty sad
I think it says a lot about her view of the economy. It's a strange time when nomal indicators are misleading. The top is doing incredibly well, the bottom isn't. Employment numbers ignore under employment, where people are, by need, working at less skilled jobs than they are qualified for.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #71
99. If Hillary says it, it must be true!
How much do you want to bet that's exactly what the apologists would say?
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
75. I've tried to stay out of the Dem. 2008 Candidate Wars, but...
Hillary really lost me here. I posted my blog entry about this on another thread, but here it is again. Says everything I need to say.

http://blogs.southflorida.com/citylink_dansweeney/2006/05/did_i_say_bush_would_be_in_the.html

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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
76. Young whippersnappers oughtta know their place!
When I was their age I busted my but 16 hours a day to earn just enough for room and board! Then I walked home ten miles uphill in a blizzard coz I couldn't afford bus fare! Them were the good old days -- young-uns don't know what they're missin. It builds character!

This whole country would be better off with lower wages for college graduates. We don't want them thinkin the Amurikan Dream is somethin they can attain until they're at least 30-sumpin!

:sarcasm:


You go, Hilary (and take the other turncoats with you)!
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
81. Please explain what the issue is here? I don't understand..............
....why anyone would find fault with those words. Is the problem the fact that young people complete high school, complete college, and think they then automatically deserve top jobs?? Is that it??:shrug:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
83. Hard to dis Hillary here, since I've said the same thing myself
I've run into this attitude many times, the idea that a college degree entitles one to start at the top rather than the bottom.

Not a very smart thing to say though, especially for a politician.


Don't know why Chelsea's pissed... she clearly got her six figure job because of her last name.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Yeah, but would you put that in a speech?
How many young people are going to hear that speech, and jump up and feel motivated to follow her lead? They're not. It's a pander to the whining class. We all have our complaints about various people. But it's a politician's job, if they're good like Hillary's spouse, to inspire people and instill in them a desire to make this a better country. This speech, which was calculated, not an off the cuff remark, shows a lack of leadership. But perhaps there is a political calculation that this will attract centrist voters, but I thought it was a cheap shot. Don't forget that "Meritocracy" article from that commie rag "The Economist" that showed that people are NOT moving up like they used to. So she's really making a dig at the middle class, not elitists who go to name schools and have the best connections who will most definitely have a starting salary way above the $75,000 that she mentioned.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. I don't know if it was a good idea or not
it was definitely directed at a certain audience - but, I tend to think it was more a shot at the "elite" than the middle class. That may not be the reality of it - but it will be perceived that way by many.

There are a lot of working class/ middle class people out there that this remark will resonate with. People who didn't have the opportunity or resources to get a college degree. People who saw people who did have that opportunity pass them by in the job market - often enough because their only qualification WAS that degree.

It happened to me - more than once. And, you bet your ass, I resented it. And I still resent it. Now, I'm not a person who votes on their resentments - but there are a lot of people out there who are.


Hillary is playing the politics of divisiveness - which is not very laudable, true. But, I don't think this is necessarily a bad move on her part politically.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. College degree vs. skills for the job
That's a tough one, because I have literally met college graduates who are as a dumb as a brick, and workers who maybe took a few courses in college but didn't graduate who are brilliant in their problem solving skills. I'm on the other side -- I do have a college degree -- and felt that after all that work studying plus a cooperative education job I could get a better job than making copies all day. It took me 4 years to finally get a job that paid as much as my co-op job. I have another friend who put himself through MBA school, and he's still paying his loans, but not really in the job that he had dreamed of. There is disappointment at both ends.

But back to Hillary, as I read the remarks in the original post (and maybe they're out of context), she is slamming ALL the kids in Gen Y, including those fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as entrepeneurs, scientists, teachers, etc., with one broad stroke, when it's always more complex than that. And what's wrong with an I-Pod anyway? (Just needed to throw that in)
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
89. Sounds like Church Lady from SNL
or something...wierd

She's just like McCain. Is pulling way to the right the best way to win elections. Do they know something we don't?
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
95. I live near silicon valley, and what she said
definitly applies to that area. Many kids were even leaving college early to take jobs starting at $50,000 a year.

I don't believe she was painting with a broad brush, she is not that stupid!

What does have merit is that hard work pays off for most of us. I have no problem with what she is saying.

Maybe it's just a age thing in terms of differing opinions. Each generation tends to complain about the previous generation.

There is good/bad in each generation. Certainly some kids are spoiled and do have a sense of entitlement others grow up with a strong work ethic.

I do admire Hillary for not being afraid to speak her mind knowing that she could offend some people, frankly, it is a welcome change of pace from the politicians that play it way to safe!
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
96. Erm... I think, in context, what she's saying is reasonable.
Had I not been really bright and very talented, and willing to go to my state school, I would have come out of college with about $50K in debt with a Master's in Psych in 1998, and been willing and able to be a therapist. (I had exceptional scholarships and financial aid, and came out with about $3000 in debt instead, which I managed to pay off in a year.)

I had internships under my belt, so basically, all I had was classroom and supervised experience. I had no idea what being a real therapist in a real clinical setting was like. (Mad Magazine + a high school horror flick + paperwork.) There was no way I could set up my own practice; I couldn't afford the malpractice insurance (it would have been about $50k because I had no experience.) I couldn't afford to buy into a practice even if I could have found one to sell me a share (no experience.) So my choices were to
1) work for the state in state mental health, have decent benefits but a terrible workload and a crappy schedule (and make about enough to cover rent, food and my loan payment or a car payment or have a roommate so I could make both loan and car payment.)
2) work for the county in community care for worse benefits, with a slightly better workload and hours, but less money. (Would have required 3-5 roommates.)
3) work for a non-profit for no benefits, a massive workload, and next to no money (at which point my best bet would have been to become a postulant nun and just take the vow of poverty.)

Starting wages for a brand new therapist are about the same as for a brand new teacher, $22K. Starting wages for an under-copy editor or an entry level marketing grad or a low level broker isn't much more. Even being an entry level programmer isn't fabulous anymore. Once you've been in the field a while, the money gets better, the hours get better and the work becomes more interesting and less crappy. But it takes a couple of years. And yeah, once I had a couple of years, I got partnership offers (didn't want to keep living in Phoenix) and my malpractice rates became less like a mugging and more like a pick-pocketing (i.e. it's still a loss, but I wasn't bruised and bloody when it was over).

Yeah, you come out of college with a 4 year old computer, a back full of debt and an entry level job. So it is, was and always shall be, world without end. There's no reason an entry or junior level worker should make as much as a senior or management level worker - the latter has... experience. Expecting to make the big bucks right away is just silly.

(My partner, a programmer with the beginnings of a doctorate in some esoteric networked, wireless, high-speed database thing that will help disaster recovery folken do their jobs, also spent his first couple of years out of college working as an Admin or Network Engineer for $10 to $12 an hour. It's the way of the ladder.)

Not a Hillary fan, but I don't hate her, either. I'm just sick of dynasties.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
102. Hey Hillary, $50,000 is not that much money these days.
Edited on Tue May-16-06 06:14 PM by AX10
Especially when you have to buy your own health insurance.
If someone comes out of college with a 4 year degree and demands $100,000+ and a new luxury car, o.k, I agree, they are spoiled alright.
$50,000 is a respectible income, but it's not what she thinks it is.

God Forbid she gets the nomination.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
103. $50k is "the top" now?
I guess we really are going backwards in this country. Fuck me for wanting a decent paying job after spending so much money on my education.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
104. Hey Hillary, the corporate world has NO "Loyalty" to their...
workers anymore. Why don't you talk about that???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
112. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. FReepers (conservatives) also try to skew polls in their favor.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
116. hey, Hillary? I know lots of kids right here in NY who never had a chanc
e at any job at all. Some of them are young, "espape from NY (City)" refugees who had an Uncle or brother or someone up here. They'd like jobs. Unfortunately, where they grew up the schools were lousy and the street was dangerous and there were no after-school programs for them or recreation or summer jobs and maybe home wasn't so hot after about three generations of no jobs either. So they don't know much about jobs, hardly ever having seen one. And there are no jobs here either. Too many just end up in a smaller jail, for petty drug crimes - you gotta live somehow, don't you?

Why aren't you talking about them, Hillary, Senator from NY?

And some of them are "kids" who grew up right here where we do have decent schools and neighborhoods and who's parents gave them an ordinary upbringing because they worked at jobs that once upon a time supported and family and even in these days can support a family modestly if there are two wage-earners. None of these "kids" were aiming at those $100,000 jobs - after all, there's room for only so many Chelseas and top Law Grads and top MBAs and whiz programmers - they mostly wanted to be teachers or firefighters or something like that. Maybe get an entry level job "business" somewhere. And they can't a job either because, guess what, there aren't any, and sometimes they end up in jail too, or they leave for greener pastures - somewhere besides UpState NY.

Why aren't you talking about them, Hillary, Senator from NY?

Would that be because neither they nor their parents can afford big $ a plate dinners or offer jobs to your friend's "kids" like the one your daughter has or or or or...because the people you were talking to are doing just fine from the very policies that are leaving so many young people with no choices besides welfare or jail or Walmart - if they are lucky?

Who do you serve, Hillary Clinton, Senator from NY?
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
119. Jeez...Hillary sounds more and more like a Rethug every day.
:eyes:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
120. I wouldn't expect anything else from a former board member of Walmart (nt)
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